500 and Counting

I'm not impressed. To put things in perspective, any one of the graduates from Harvard Medical School will contribute more for the benefit of mankind, and society as a whole, than all the members of the 500 Home Run Club put together. So will the teachers, garbage collectors, police, firefighters and several other professions I can think of. Why we glorify (and pay millions of dollars to) people who can hit a ball with a stick, or putt a ball into a little hole, while we underfund things like education and healthcare is a mystery of our society that has no satisfactory explanation.

We could live quite comfortably in a world without professional athletes. You can't say the same about the people who pick up your trash, put out your fires, teach your children and keep your streets safe. I'll save the accolades and glory for them.

I am reminded of something Teddy Roosevelt said. He was opposed to professional sports. He said when Americans would pay to watch professional athletes play a "manly" sport instead of playing it themselves to prove their manliness and vigor, the country was lost.

Perhaps a better way to say it today is when we worship athletes, actors, and rock stars as our heroes instead of teachers, researchers, and those giving their lives for this country, we are lost....or at least have lost our way.

I don't begrudge the athletes or other stars their huge salaries. if the system pays it, why not go for it if you have the talent. But you're not a hero or anyone I admire.

I admire the doctors who worked very hard to save my father from a stomach, liver and brain cancer. They failed, but what a fiight it was.

If the money spent on profesional athletes and entertainers went into cancer research, how soon would we have multiple cures for various cancers?

Spinner's husband has made important discoveries, I doubt he's got a multi-million dollar contract to continue those discoveries.

My friend La Donna was a teacher. I reserve my respect for her, not Manny Ramirez.

Anybody here play baseball/softball as a kid? Collect baseball cards?

I guess it's a football (soccer) world now...

I'm really not much into sports either, nor do I get very excited about movie stars no matter how tight their butt is. But, in the spirit of balance, what would our world be like without entertainment?

Cherann, I think we could have a world full of entertainment without the seven-plus figure salaries for the providers. The guy who has been picking up my trash in 100+ degree heat has more of a right to claim high compensation than any entertainer.

Go back 50 years or so and people made their own entertainment. They played sports, were more likely to pick up a book, and they led more active lives. Sure, they had their pop stars, but they were also much more likely to pick up an instrument to entertain themselves or their neighbors. Without the distraction of the television, people had to be much more creative to fight boredom. As a result, their patience as well as their attention spans were longer, and society as a whole spent far less on mass entertainment, and more time building communities.

The only exclusive club I belong to that matters to me is the one in which I'm the only member. My little boy calls me daddy.

Agreed. I used to get immense enjoyment out of watching my sons play little league baseball, peewee football and soccer, and the only payment they got was the joy of it all, the thrill of competition, and the discipline it takes to get better and be a part of a team. Somehow that seemed to be enough. Yeah, they're kids, but it was a blast watching them.

What if starting tomorrow entertainers were paid according to the value of the job they perform? How DO you determine what that value is? What price do you put on the escape they provide for millions of hard working, stressed out people, the people you mentioned....garbage man, firefighters, teachers?

Is it just America that does this or do other countries also pay their entertainers more than the most powerful man/woman leading their country?

I whole heartedly agree that professional sports players, managers, etc... are all over paid and glorified. I am horrified that the farmer and the teacher who contribute so much to all of us are struggling to make ends meet. However, I do enjoy a good baseball game. I would be less than honest if I were to say that I think this is fair...but unfortuneately it is the American way. I grew up watching the "Big Red Machine" and I loved sharing in the fun and glory. It sure made my youth enjoyable. Players such as Ted Williams, Hank Aaron, and now Griffey Jr. will always be synonymous with baseball. Of all of the professional sports baseball and basketball are the most enjoyable for me personally. Professional sports does have it's place in society for many good reasons for example; it has enabled many less than fortunate to pursue a better life. Professional sports has enabled the physically challanged an outlet as well. The Olympics is another positive. So as with so many other things in our world... it is what it is.

Now if you will pardon me I am planning our families Father's Day celebration at the Reds vs. Red Sox game at the Great American Ballpark.

Play ball!

I had the honor of seeing Pete Rose dive head first into home plate and take out the catcher in the process to score a run. Watching Team USA defeat the Russians in 1980 was a thrill that I’ll never forget. Sport has a tendency to bring people together – whether you play or watch – because you are able experience and see passion at work. Sport provides the pause that is sometime needed in life. Sure, lawyers, doctors, firefighters, garbage collectors, etc. are all noble professions, and these people do great things, but to simply dismiss the accomplishments of professional athletes and the inspiration that they bring to millions worldwide is unfair. I did not think it mattered what you did for a living. I thought what was important was the passion and spirit you brought to your profession – or to life for that matter. To see passion on the field of play can inspire you and remind you to bring that passion to what you do. To Onc Doc, take the day off, have a few beers with some of your pals, and see if Manny can get to 506.

todd,

I think you've got the right idea. My family couldn't care less about TV, and I think our lives are richer for it.

We do old-fashioned things like take walks, garden, make food and play music together. We obviously use the internet 'cause it's so convenient, but sometimes I shut the dern thing off and send a letter in the post. Speaking of which, I used to collect stamps. Do kids still do that?

It does take loads of time and patience to do something well... which is why perhaps many people no longer bother.

Slow life = good life

oneland2ts,

My husband helped me to appreciate that highly-skilled athletes are artists of sorts... there's strength, grace, male beauty to admire.

Well it sounds as though I may raise a few hackles on the necks of folks with this one so I ask for your indulgence.

Color me jaded. Why? Because I have never bought into the premise that life is fair, that the road to hell wasn’t paved by good intentions, that each and every choice we make comes with a complimentary set of stainless steel consequences, that sometimes bad stuff happens to very good people (and visa versa), that in a free, open market, capitalistic society people are in fact paid based on what the market will bear, or that professional sports, and now I even have to throw the International Olympics and every positive revenue generating collegiate sport are not businesses.

I also believe that the higher you go up Maslow’s pyramid to have you needs fulfilled, the more people can and will charge for fulfilling these needs. I’m not saying this right or fair, it’s just the way it is.

We’ve had quite a few discussions about what makes a hero. My personal heroes are my parents, Jonas Salk, my orthopedic surgeon, and every police officer, fireman, or soldier who puts their life on the line for us every day. It’s about sacrifice and in many cases that sacrifice is made so that others may not only live, but live to enjoy life, to dream?

Now let’s talk baseball.

It started as a game, it became a business, and then it became a very, very profitable business. “Back in the day”, most baseball players had to have at least one, maybe two jobs in the off season just to survive. Back then, the only one’s profiting from this where the owners. Well that worm has certainly turned as we all know.

Baseball players don’t save lives, don’t sweep the streets, or make scientific breakthroughs. Baseball players do sell tickets and fill stadiums with cheering fans. They sell hotdogs, brats, Cracker Jacks, beer, bobble-heads, t-shirts, baseball jerseys, baseball cards, pennants, rally monkeys, caps and a host of other non-essential goods and services.

Baseball players also enable people of all walks of live, at least for a little while, forget their real world problems. They can, with the crack of a bat make children and adults alike either jump for joy, or for a short time, break their hearts . . . but with the heartache there always comes the hope that your team, your player will make you jump for joy again with the next pitch, the next inning, the next game, or maybe, like my lovable Cubbies, there is always next year.

When Manny hit his 500th home run, how many tens of thousand Red Sox fans held their breath, crossed their fingers hoping and probably praying that the ball would make it out of the park, and then almost literally explode with a shared joy as he rounded the bases. I bet the noise in Fenway Park at that moment was deafening! How many times where the seats in stadiums throughout the country filled to capacity with people just hoping to be present at that moment when one of the rarest feats of baseball history would be made. I for one think that all of the many moments such as this one, that these overpaid professional players provide, are indeed priceless.

To: Heiress,

The ancient Greeks had the right balance. They admired athletic ability, the male body, the female body, art, music, and philosophy and science. If you could combine it together you were on ther right track, sort of a Renaissance person. I've read where Julius ceasar wrote poetry and painted. One of his poems still exists.

My issue with the hero worship of stars and celebrities is that they may be pursuing their passion but they are merely entertainers. I think the pursuit of excellence in any endeavor is to be admired but not one over the other. The men and women who successfully placed the last robot on Mars are equal to any sports figure.

But a lot has to do with your perspective. I'm a businessman and athlete. I admire the accomplishments of others in those fields and want to copy their skills into my own efforts to succeed. If you're a musician, it's the same; if your a doctor, it's the same, isn't it?

By the way, the male gladiators in Rome were treated like star athletes today. If they were successful they got anything they wanted. Not all gladiators were slaves or prisoners forced to fight to entertain the mobs. I wonder if the Romans kept statistics on the gladiators, such as number of kills? Sort of like a "homerun" record.

Mr. Peterman,

I agree. I'm to tired to save the world today so I think I'll just take in a game or "have a catch" with my grandson.

I suppose that the idea that one should be paid according to the value of their work is a valid point, but aside from the intrinsic value of entertainment, be it from sports or movies or whatever, there's the Traditional Theory of Wage Determination to factor in. It states that wages are determined according to the skill required to perform the tasks required. Movie stars and athletes are paid so much because there are few other people who can do what they do. Heck, if only twenty-four people can hit five hundred home runs, I would say that guy has gotta have some skill. But trash collectors drive a truck, or heave something into another something. If we followed the idea that loading trash from one receptacle into another was a high-paying job, well - anyone who could toss or drive would be rich. It's not the value of the work that determines the money earned - it's how hard the work is and how much skill the worker has.

ExPat: Yea, but look what happened to Rome...
I think sports are a great way to pull people into a sense of community, all cheering for the home team. And the athletes striving for excellence in their sport is commendable. But... It is the way-over-the-top money paid for that ability that I have a problem with. I always enjoyed school sports -until they also got to be just big business. Louisville has always been able to point with pride to the UofL basketball and now their football teams and the city shows great support for them. But the community has not been too successful at getting behind a professional sports team. The best we can do now is a AA baseball team, the Louisville Bats (well, duh). Those games are fun because they are players that haven't quite made it and the game atmosphere is much more laid back.

About the school sports. They are now every bit as bad as the pros. And NCAA has had to make such stringent rules to try to keep them from going even more over-board. But just stop and think. Can a rep. from MicroSoft come on campus and interview a star computer science major and steal him from out of the department? Is it possible that someone gets such high scores on his/her M-CATS that he leaves and goes to Med. School without graduating? The Met goes to campuses across the country every year for formal competitions for their Young Performers program. I have a friend that was a union card-carrying member of the professional Louisville Orchestra as an undergraduate who also played in the UofL band! Tisk! Vocal and drama majors have summer jobs in professional venues to make money to go back to school the next fall. When compared to the athletes' rules, something is definitely wrong here. And why don't we applaud the computer science major for moving on up early as much as we do the early signer with the Celtics? And why doesn't he get a signing bonus? And speaking of this dicotemy, there are so many fans that can spout off the names of the coaches, assistant coaches (both def. and off.), but who can name the deans of their local universities? The chairman of that comp. sci. dept. It seems to me it is scary that our society is putting so much emphasis on sports, a rather trivial side light when you look at the whole picture of what it takes to keep everything running smoothly. As I started this tiraid, look what happened to Rome.

So folks, how about them Dodgers?

Since ExPat mentioned my husband's accomplishments, I thought I would give you an upsate on the book. Seems that the publisher has more votes than we do. The title is now, Unearthing the Past: The Archaeology of the Falls of the Ohio River Region. Our son did a phenomenal cover design that they didn't want either... Anyway, thank one and all for your thoughtful votes.

To: Spinner,

I agree with you. I've read that when Rome was sacked by Alaric, the mob was upset that the games had been cancelled because there wasn't enough bread to hand out at the Colliseum. Puts a new meaning to "barabarians at the gate".

To: Heiress,

How about them Dodgers? I go to a Dodger game whenever I crave a $10 hotdog, which is not very often. Right now I'm trying to explain to my youngest son why the over-the-top salaries for the Lakers won't necessarily help them beat the Celtics. It's not working. It's fun living here in L.A.

Touche' to all participants in today's topic. I think everyone made very valid points.

I have to tell you that my just turned five year old grandson may be able to financially contribute to my retirement fund one day because of sports. He already displays a great deal of skill and aptitude for the games of baseball and basketball . He LOVES sports but I am proud to say that he is just as diligent and skilled in his pre-school academics as well. I think a well balanced diet for both youth and adults is the key to keeping sports in perspective. I do believe it is a much needed outlet for many good reasons. But like so many other areas in our lives needs to be kept in the appropriate respect. My husband and I try to expose our three grandsons to many activities in life such as reading, camping, cooking, music, games, swimming, art, science, math, sports, and much more. We love to spend the afternoon at a baseball game with them. The players usually pick them out of the crowd and give them a ball or make some kind of one on one contact with them Their bright eyes and smile tell it all. Professional sports ain't all bad if it can bring a smile to someone's face like that!

Pass the peanuts please!

Skimming the page [things to do, school's out], you all sounds so pessimistic.
I agree with Peterman fully on this one.
I'm not too into sports, but I love how baseball brings people together, although my memories of watching the Durham Bulls lose don't have much to do with the actual game.
Can't it be simpler than wages and sterioids?
Just support the fellow for a great achievement, nothing to debate.
[So what if you think nothing was really acomplished? You clap the same for the kid with perfect attendance as you do for the 4+ GPA]
Baseball is just one of those things that can create an entire culture that has a place for everyone at some point in their life [catch in the backyard, school teams, cheap hotdogs, pickup games, beer [everything good in life]].

[I'm making absolutely no sense right now, our air conditioning is out, I'm running on minimal sleep and no caffine, and I've got to get to a robotics meeting. [that sentence is /so/ hip] I'll comment/read more later if I remember]

I am not much of a sports fan. But I tremendously admire anyone who can hone his skills into such excellence. I do not agree with the contention that we could live comfortably without professional athletes. Sure, we could live. But what would inspire us? What examples would we follow? The doctors would keep us alive and firefighters would keep us safe. But if we have no culture (and athletics and the arts are noble expressions of culture), then what more than a few technological advances would separate us from our caveman ancestors?

In my parents' generation, man walked on the moon. Let us not forget WHY we wanted to walk on the moon in the first place. We can't afford to be uneducated but, more importantly, we DEFINITELY can't afford to be uncultured.

Athletes and artists (performing artists and others) have a tremendous impact on society as a whole because they are shining examples of how excellent you can be at what you do if you work hard and apply your own sense of brilliance. That they are paid more than politicians makes eminent sense. A great philosopher once said, "Let me write the nation's songs and I care not who writes its laws."

As for the notion of being overpaid, I shudder to think that, if I were a producer and I wanted to pay my star actor $2 million instead of $1 million, I might be told that I can't. It's my money and my contract. Why can't I pay the guy what I choose if I think he's earning it? Just because you don't think he is?

I appreciate doctors like Salk as much as anyone does. Because of these medical efforts, we can live longer and healthier and enjoy more thrilling moments like watching Hank Aaron score a homer or watching Laurence Olivier declare his love for Merle Oberon or listening to John Lennon challenge us to Imagine. Without those moments to make it all worth it, a doctor or teacher's achievement loses a lot of value.

I like Baseball I can remember watching the Brewers win & lose (mostly Lose) My father loved Baseball & we watched it together many summer nights.

As I was little girl I can barely remember the 82 Series ~ But I have a deep appreciation for the light blue uniforms the M Mitt logo & Rollie Fingers, Robin Yount & Paul Molitor that will never leave me. Today as an adult I am a Cubbies fan Brewers are #2 on the list... . I love going to professional sports events & seeing the display of skill the athlete have.

I HAVE to Like Football It's pretty much a living & Job Requirement in WI.
(Cheering for one team in particular although my Sister is a Bears fan)

Are athletes over paid of course they are.
Are the tickets for the common man to see these displays of talent & skill way too expensive? Yes they really are, Will it ever end, most likely not.

They as overpaid athletes may not be saving the world from disease as Salk did, But I don't think bringing happiness to peoples faces by displaying your skills is the worst thing a person can do either.

Greetings: I have a 10yr old boy and a 8yr old boy. We live at the beach and are very involved in all activities involving the ocean. Surfing, kayaking, sailing, etc. Our home is an island and everything involves water. Of all the activities, Baseball, yes Baseball is the most important. My family lives and breaths baseball. My kids play and I sponser a team (King Neptune Pirates!). We go see a Braves series every summer. This year I think my kids are going to Fenway. Our bassett hound is named Manny. (long ears looked like Mannys dreads, so my youngest said). We play catch everyday. My youngest, is this very minute, playing a video game of baseball. It brings us all together. When the regular season starts its almost treated like a holiday. Baseball cards, bobble heads and signed balls, bats, jerseys cover the walls of their room. (each has a Manny ball and a Big Poppie ball). Now here's the kicker...I did not encourage any of this. This is just something that happened by their own choosing. But since it happened, I think the best thing to do is to encourage and enjoy it. Again, It brings us all together. I never was an obsessed sports fan, but now baseball is part of my soul. I know baseball runs deep in the American vein. Give it a try, watch a few games, get to know the players (characters), understand the strategies, and I think you will get hooked also. Read Jim Boutons book "Ball Four". It is a "...people book, not just a baseball book." I suggest giving baseball a try. I would not have discovered its deep joy if it had not been for my boys. Their my true heros.

opps, I meant, "They are my true heros."

The greatest hitter of all time? Lou Gerhig

Lou Gehrig's accomplishments on the field made him an American hero, but his career was in majority overshadowed by Ruth and DiMaggio. Lou’s is most remembered by having a record 2,130 consecutive games played, all 13 years worth. His record stood for 62 years until Cal "Iron Man" Ripken broke it in 1998. Lou spent his whole career with the New York Yankees.
Lou was the son of German immigrants. Lou’s parents wanted Lou to become an engineer. Lou had different ideas and became one of the best Yankee baseball players ever.

I, for one, love a good ball game. Spring is not Spring without a ball game. Each year when I walk through the gate to my seat, the site of the field takes my breath away. Why, I don't know. No, I can't tell you the rules, or all the facts about each player, or, who is making what, I just know I love a good game. Maybe it is the anthem, or doing the "wave" or the 7th inning stretch, the hot dogs, the big soft pretzels, or a good slide into first. I don't know, but this much I do know, I'm glad I can see a good game!

To: rings90,
I love the new Brewers stadium! Ok....and I love the sausage race! How fun is that!?!

Now, in the mid-evening, as I read everyone's posts, I think about this concept of heroes. A lot of people are saying interesting things about who is or isn't a hero. We've chatted on this subject before and I believe I've mentioned that, when I hear the word "hero", the two names that come most immediately to my mind are Raoul Wallenberg and Ernest Shackleton.

But there are other kinds of heroes. Others and I have talked today about inspiration. And, though I'm no sportsman, I see how many in the 500-homer club must have been inspired to do great things (perhaps even in medicine and such) by the inspiration of their heroes. Especially Ted Williams for whom Mr. Peterman has such clear affection. In addition to being a brilliant sportsman, he was legendary for his gracious and gentlemanly demeanor, his sense of dignity, and his passion for philanthropic service. Many here might feel that those things are MORE admirable than his athletic talents and I would be hard pressed to argue. But, if it weren't for his prowess on the field, who would notice the other stuff?

When I think of heroes in that sense, I think of William Shakespeare and Lord Byron. I cannot help but find it heroic that men whom I have never met -- who died centuries before my birth -- can, by force of their minds, hearts, and pens, move me to tears and laughter. They shaped my understanding of what love and humanity are (or, at least, what they might be). The value of the ability to convey such understandings cannot be under-estimated.

Ok....the "sight" of the field takes my breath away, not the "site" (where is the grammar/spell check on this thing anyway)!?! : )

To: Spinner,
You must be an amazing woman...

To: Spinner,
And, I'm not saying that because your having lunch with two men!

I guess I wrote too much today because of all the Jonas Salk comments. Once you get past those, my second half describes a love for the game and the great moments that these players give to the fans that are priceless. I guess I should have just said that. I'm a die hard Cubs and White Sox fan just for the record. I don't know who I would root for if it was a "Subway World Series".

LaDonna:Tell that to my son, will ya?
Yes, sports can indeed bring out the highest in people. When our son was 15, he was riding his new 15 speed bike home from swim practice. He was on a designated bike path, crossing a street when someone in a pickup turned into him without signaling and hit him broadside. I will not get on our family soapbox about wearing helmets, but suffice it to say that his helmet saved his life. He had multiple injuries on his left side that meant surgery, 2 1/2 weeks in the hospital followed by a month using a walker and a lot of therapy. Ah yes. Therapy. That would be back in the water. This was 23 years ago and we were blessed to have an orthopedic surgeon that said to get back in the water as soon at his skin healed. So for his first attempts he came on deck with his walker. The accident occured on Sept 15th and he swam his first swim meet after that about Thanksgiving time. Not much competition for anybody, but he swam. As I read all these campagnes for the best and greatest, I am sorry. As far as a great athlete is concerned, I have to vote for my own son. He never, no never wasted time with "Why me?" or "Oh, pity me". He simply took the recovery as another challenge to overcome. He had been state champ in the breaststroke, but the accident ended any more of that so he went after middle and long distance freestyle. He got good enough at that to swim Div I in college. And, by the way, it was swimming. Not much money there. He went through on academic scholarship, not athletic. He learned all the good things a kid is supposed to learn from sports in spades and then some and these lessons are still a part of his life. But nobody worshipped him or even asked for his autograph. The lessons simply became who he is. When he was in the 8th grade, his PE class had to clean out the Middle School football team's lockers.. jock straps and all.. because one didn't expect the team members themselves to do it, would one? That is the sort of difference between the "major" sports and the "minor" sports that were thrown up to us constantly. Thus, just a little bit of bitterness here, if you didn't notice. So, no, I don't really respect the major, high paid, high ego athletes. I respect my son and what athletics did for him.

SSJ:

Don't regret mentioning Salk. He's a good example. If you had said Pasteur, we would have referenced him. Your other points were well taken and well made (as always).

And by the way, if you get a subway series in Chicago, you should bloody well root for the Cubs. At least they play baseball. Those other guys only play designated hitter ball. A totally different sport!