Is it in our Genes?

I think it was in the movie "My Fair Lady" that a character asked the question: "Why can't a woman be more like a man?"

Well, I think men and women are equal, legally, spiritually, and intellectually. We are more alike than we think. Now there are certainly differences. And I think Maurice Chevalier summed those up rather nicely: "Viva la difference"

It's the Y chromosome which makes men men. Each person normally has one pair of sex chromosomes in each cell. Females have two X chromosomes, while males have one X and one Y chromosome. Both males and females retain one of their mother's X chromosomes, and females retain their second X chromosome from their father. Since the father retains his X chromosome from his mother, a human female has one X chromosome from her paternal grandmother, and one X chromosome from her mother.

This a true and biological fact. Now the question arises. How can you tell a male chromosome (Y) from a female chromosome (X)? Simple: Pull down their genes.

If the majority of statements in today's opening essay are to be taken at face value, anyone who heard my daily routine would immediately assume that my wife is a man and I am a woman. This reversing of the stereotype reached its apex on the evening when I had dinner ready and she had fallen asleep in front of the TV (alas, no beer in her hand to complete the picture).

And, while we may be in a comparative minority, I think we are the kind of exception that DISproves the alledged rule. These constant notions of "women think this..." and "men feel that..." etc. fails to respect or even take into account the value of the individual. Men don't do anything. THIS man does. Women don't want anything. THIS woman does.

One of the few concepts my father addressed badly (yes, there were some) was advice on gift giving. We used to talk at Christmastime and such about what we were getting family members. As I mused about the possibilities of what I might get for my wife, he would say "It's very hard shopping for women, have you considered...?" and he would list a bunch of very stereotypical gifts from mink stoles to pet kittens, none of which were remotely appropriate for my wife. He couldn't understand that the reason it's hard shopping for women is because the very idea is preposterous. I was shopping for THIS PARTICULAR woman.

At any rate, this is a long winded way of making my point that, of course, our brains are different! This is because no two minds are alike. Just like fingerprints, you won't find two identical. There are many things many men or women have in common. But, within those common bonds, there will be differences. In evidence, I point out this online community of ours.

Like dreadpirateroberts, my husband and I defy the "norm". He's often the one who wants to talk and I need times of solitude and quiet. He's very much a care-giver (albeit an analytical one), and I am independent. And the list goes on. I think our differences have more to do with extrovert vs introvert and the way we process information than male vs. female.

But,there ARE some areas where we definitely fit traditional gender roles - he's stronger than I am, has a stronger sex drive, and food speaks love...I'm hormonally emotional and contradictory for at least a few days each month, enjoy being warmed up before intimacy, and go through periods of nesting at home.

In social situations, we find our differences from the "norm" are pretty interesting. One couple we get together with fairly often fit more into the traditional model, and we're able to offer each other great perspective across the genders. I'm more like the man in how I think, react and my husband more like the woman. We've connected our similarities more to big picture vs detail-oriented.

Capt Neptune: Kudos for that ʻgenesʻ pun. It has made my day.

As far as differences go, I am one of those who is constantly complaining to my girlfriend about how difficult women are. Women - and this might just be younger women - always seem to have a tendency to overanalyse, and have this sort of... well, a code of sorts, I suppose you could call it. Women think things that men wouldnʻt think they thought regarding any minuscule thing.

So I guess my main point is that women, as far as I have observed, are a lot more complicated than men. Women pick apart each day and live each moment carefully, like an archaeologist. Men just seem to glaze over each day as a day in its whole. As a man, I realise that I just take things for what they are with little thought. But then my girlfriend will tell me that what I did or said was entirely unacceptable and what was I thinking? And sheʻll point out to me something Iʻd never have thought and make me feel kinda dull.

Sure, sure, we're all individuals. But I challenge anyone to prove to me that certain adult gender stereotypes are not true on some level. As a married mother who chats with many other parents I can tell you they permeate my world (where many dads stay home with the kids, cook, clean and many parents have non-traditional jobs, incidentally).

What interests me, though, is watching the kids. I have 2, both girls, one is a typical girlie girl--into clothes, mermaids, whatever. The other is a tom boy--dresses only in "boy clothes", has many male friends, likes pokemon and super heroes. They were both raised by me. My tom boy daughter was never particularly interested in princess stuff, my little princess always was. I guess this little aside goes somewhat counter to my above argument, though I think gender stereotypes are learned behaviors that we as a society encourage and perpetuate.

I've heard that we are 25% mother, 25% father, and 50% ourselves. My nickname comes from my favorite Hemingway novel, The Garden of Eden; where two of the main characters are Catherine and Marita ("Heiress"); girls who feel like girls some days, boys like others.

Doesn't that make sense, if we are part Mom and part Dad?

Now if Mr. Peterman permits me...
DreadPirateRoberts, rings90, tajar and Spinner, thank you for your kind thoughts and prayers. And DPR, give us news of your strivings for factual romance!

Such an age-old topic - men and women. It reminds me of a running debate my 12yr. old son and I have. When I speak of women and the love I have for his mother and what life is like when you have someone to share it with, he stands tall and confidently assures me that in no uncertain terms would he EVER have a wife or girlfriend. Upon hearing of this the first time I dug in and began to prod. He contends that life is good just the way it is and having a girlfriend and for god sake a wife, would somehow get in the way of his "manly" activities, like snake wrangling, card collecting, and skateboarding. I became to share with him of the phenomenon his body and mind would undertake any moment now, in his young "adulthood". And how girls, would some day, take on a whole new meaning to him. Quite possibly above any reptilian friend he was so fond. "Dad, I'll bet you I won't!!!” he chimed. Amused in my deepest recesses I pressed on. I explained how he would grow to have different opinions and that his stance should be left open. He was looking at me with such contempt and pity. In some ways I fell from my lofting Herculean heights that he'd kept me on, because of my apparent weakness towards the opposite sex. We shook hands in agreement. A wager was placed. The amount - $500. If he ever had a girlfriend or wife (not sure how you could have a wife before the girlfriend, but I don't live in Utah so...) he would have to honor his bet and if he remained "Master of his domain" I would pay my debt.

My wife recounts that night tucking the boys in bed. My son retelling her of how he just pulled one over on the old man. How could Dad make such a calculated mistake? Lying their with hands folded behind his head in victory, probably counting how many snakes and lizards $500 could buy, my wife began to share with him about the "change" that's coming. She explained to him how his own body would "betray" him and turn traitor. He was told how our bodies undergo "changes" that we cannot hinder. He demanded that this be stopped. She told him it couldn’t, that it was inevitable. As he laid there in defiant silence, he simply uttered that he'd just not ever leave the house, there by eliminating and defying this "change" that was coming... my wife simply patted him on the back and kissed his head and said, "but then, you'll just lay in bed and think about girls and you won't be able to stop it"...

I’m thankful for all the similarities and differences men and women share. And I’m counting how many golf balls $500 will buy.

I think that the behavioral differences between the sexes is merely the outcome of us all growing up and going to different schools together.

There is no doubt that men are better parallel parkers than women. Although, we know, men are hopeless at following directions.

Woman also have a calendar gene to help them remember things.

I do think, with the exception of Captain Neptune, the Brits have proven they
have more of a sense of humor on this subject than we do.

And we haven't yet, touched our metro sexual explosion. Why can't a man
be more like a woman, Ex Pat? It's happening.

She's right.... two words, "man purse"

"Male and female represent the two sides of the great radical dualism. But in fact they are perpetually passing into one another. Fluid hardens to solid, solid rushes to fluid. There is no wholly masculine man, no purely feminine woman."

Margaret Fuller, Woman in the Nineteenth Century, 1845
US Transcendentalist author & editor (1810 - 1850)

Wheatgrass, that is one hilarious story.

One thing I have found interesting in researching this topic. Was an article that I came across that is trying to prove that homosexual males have the same brain as females, just as homosexual females have the same brain as males... thus proving that homosexuals are born the way they are and, if proved, ending the constant battle with uninformed people all over this country that it is not a choice to be "gay". Of course this article is about homosexual's straight counterparts and the relationship between the male and female brain activities... The human brain is an amazing computer, it can unlock secrets that may end this countries battle for equal rights for all!

As a member of this "new generation", I must comment that I believe that most gender issues are psychological.
I was a confused tom boy growing up; short hair, pink dresses, football, close girl friends but more guy friends [I suppose that has something to do with gender as well...]
Even these days I enjoy wearing skirts, but the only shoes I'll wear are my converse hi-tops. I love Batman and boybands, and I suppose I'd consider myself pansexual.
I always go too far with my friends, both physically and in conversation [but that's why they're my friends].
I'm always the first to catch innuendo [intentionally implied or not] and scream out "THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID! *ohhhh, burn*".
I remember in seventh grade, after I finished a casual conversation about nothing in particular with a tall eigth grader, my friend [girl with spiked hair, guy shorts, and tiny pink purse, by the way] pulled me over and whispered "Do you have any idea how many girls would have killed to just say 'hi' to him?"
I'm in "love" with a man who sings me show tunes while I sit on his lap, my dad cooks dinner, my mom is always either working or sleeping, and my sister doesn't wear a bra.

We're all perfectly normal.

Gender is all in the mind, not the skin-tight leather pants.

I enjoy the differences in the sexes as well as our similarities. It's comical when I think of the phone calls between my father and I now versus the calls between my wife's mother and her. As males, we engage in the simple guttural sounds about sports and gas prices to the incredible sale he got at Wal-mart on tube socks. When I hang up the phone my wife asks me all kinds of questions about my folks that I would never have thought of to ask about. She leaves frustrated by my answer that everything is "good" with them. Now contrast a phone call with her and her mother... first, it can take an hour at least to describe what her younger brother alone is up too, let alone how her father is doing. The conversations are deep and intense. Her ability to focus on that phone call would make Tiger Woods proud. The rest of us cease to exist and all attention is towards that call.

Differences are natural between the sexes and I welcome them. Great line from the movie ~Good Will Hunting, “People call those imperfections, but no, that's the good stuff.”

[[off topic, I'm sad I didn't get to comment yesterday. My biology teacher showed us the intentionally hilarious cane toad documentary that The One at the Desk mentioned]]

I think LaDonna is right. Each of us carries both male and female energy. I've seen several very successful marriages in which the man carries the majority of the female energy and vice versa.

Perhaps the challenge is seeing if we can suspend our need to understand or master the other. Can we learn to keep our balance in earthquake country? (an image that immediately comes to mind as I live in California)

Mattofyrk: You said that the article noted the point about homosexuality being inherent since birth. But as part of the "new generation" of which Lovey spoke, I have to both agree and disagree. On one level, the article may be entirely right and homosexuality might come right from the womb. But having just graduated from the fourth-largest high school in the United States, I was exposed to many a group of people, among which are the (mostly) girls who 'experiment' during their teenage years. I believe this is entirely a choice. Make no mistake - guys do it as well; in fact, my best friend experimented for a few months or so recently. But I think the statistic is that around 70% of all teenagers experiment with homosexuality at one point or another, just to try it out, like a pair of pants or something. And this is a choice. I guess this is also relevant because, like I said, it's more girls that try than guys (at least, where I've come from). Is there something in the female brain that is more sexually adventurous?

Eh, maybe I'm just chasing shadows.

Wheatgrass:

How long before the bet expires? Your son could try to collect and you can say, "You're not dead yeat. You might still find a woman." He has no such advantage. You definitely got the better end of that wager.

Gia:

My mother is FAR better at parallel parking than I am. I am INFINITELY better at asking for and following directions than either my wife or my mother. And both my father and I have always been MUCH better at remembering birthdays and anniversaries than either of our wives ever were.

Heiress:

Living in New York City is a daily dose of factual romance. So is living with my wife. I'll let you know what else I find.

The One at the Desk: "Is there something in the female brain that is more sexually adventurous?"
Never thought about it like that until now, but it makes perfect sense.
[Quick little facebook search, at my school there are more women seeking women or both than men seeking men or both.]

The One at the Desk:

One of the thorniest aspects of the debate on homosexuality is the difference between inclination and action. To "experiment" with certain behavior is not the same thing as having that preference. In other words, Oscar Wilde chose to get married and have children. But that choice of action did not change his personal inclinations. His contemporary, A.E. Housman compared sexual preference to the color of one's hair:

Oh who is that young sinner with the handcuffs on his wrists?
And what has he been after that they groan and shake their fists?
And wherefore is he wearing such a conscience-stricken air?
Oh they’re taking him to prison for the color of his hair.

‘Tis a shame to human nature, such a head of hair as his;
In the good old time ‘twas hanging for the color that it is;
Though hanging isn’t bad enough and flaying would be fair
For the nameless and abominable color of his hair.

Oh a deal of pains he’s taken and a pretty price he’s paid
To hide his poll or dye it of a mentionable shade;
But they’ve pulled the beggar’s hat off for the world to see and stare,
And they’re haling him to justice for the color of his hair.

Now ‘tis oakum for his fingers and the treadmill for his feet
And the quarry-gang on Portland in the cold and in the heat,
And between his spells of labor in the time he has to spare
He can curse the God that made him for the color of his hair.

But with today's teenagers, and especially the girls - for now I can say with at least some certainty, thanks to Lovey's assiduous statistician skills - take the issue into action. It's not so much inclination alone, but dating other girls, kissing other girls, et cetera, regardless of if they're actually homosexual. I mean, in their heart of hearts I'm sure the decision was made long ago whether they like boys or girls. But in the spirit of liberalism that ensnares so many teenagers, many opt for the homosexual route simply because... well, I suppose in the definition of ultra-liberalism, they completely embrace homosexuality, drugs, Communism - what with the Che Guevara shirts. Now, I'm not stereotyping, because I'm sure there is many a homosexual that really is, and isn't as I've described them.

And as for Oscar Wilde - wasn't he imprisoned for... ahem... the colour of his hair?

Common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down by the mind before you reach eighteen.

DreadPirateRoberts: The wager is contingent upon his being able to earn a wage himself. I thought of the loophole you mention above and so did he. I told him he should be a lawyer when he grows up and then he argued back why he shouldn't and got a mistrial. ;) My wife suggested I dissolve the wager so I don't put any undue pressure on him should the need arise to find a young lady attractive... That's the whole part of the wager!!!

Things are what they are. Whether it be millions of years of human and societal evolution, The grand design, or suddenly something magic happened . . . . we are what we are and may as well just sit back and enjoy the ride 'cos it's a fairly short one.

A mother I know mentioned a few days ago that her six year old daughter doesn't know why she has to wear on top on her bathing suit. Why can't she just wear a boy's suit? The mother was somewhat taken aback...but then she thought...hmmm.

It raises a good question...why does she? Is it pressure from society or are our six year olds teaching us something?

A few more differences to consider: If you told a woman that you had just returned from a trip to the surface of the Moon, she would show her interest by asking who you had gone with. Women think that a good place to keep the TV controller is on top of the TV. Women cannot be instructed on how to operate a thermostat.

Just a comment; I'm enjoying this conversation much more than the usual ones on here.

Gia: I honestly think that "pressure from society" is the reason a lot of things are the way they are. Why can't we all just dress like Donald Duck?

To: Capt Neptune,
Speaking of dressing like Donald Duck....did you get a sunburn!?! : )

To Neptune: And why can't a man ever close a closet door, or is that just gender stereotyping? And yes, DD is pretty spiffy, although I never could understand the relationship with Daisy. Did Donald have commitment issues...were they just friends? Or was Daisy just cold?

To: The one at the desk--sexual experimentation is hardly "opting for the homosexual route" and is only harmful when parties are hurt or degraded. Open-minded exploration in all realms is part of learning who you are. I think more women do this openly because society views two women together as sexy while, in the predominantly straight world, two men together is just gay. If this could change there would probably be a lot less anger in the world. I hope my gender bending daughter is encouraged by her friends and by society to be exactly who she is despite the rampant homophobia that exists in this country.

And by the way VIVA ULTRA LIBERALISM! The alternative is SCARY as we all should know from the last 8 years.

To JMR, I think you're right on. Experimentation is normal. When it ceases to
be, it's still normal.

To Neptune, I think Daisy just didn't like to do laundry. She was a feminist before her time.

The One at the Desk:

I fully understand what you meant when you spoke of experimentation. But jmr is right; it's hardly the same as "going the homosexual route" to the degree that there can even be such a thing. The girls you describe choose certain actions in spite of the fact that they lack any inclination toward such actions. And yes, Wilde served two years in Reading Gaol for "gross indecency". He too chose actions that were contrary to his inclination.

There's an interesting scene in "Sex and the City" (a show I usually detest): Cynthia Nixon's character has heard a rumor that she is a closeted lesbian and she starts to wonder about it. In an elevator with a lesbian friend, she kisses her, thinks about how she feels, and says, "Nope. Definitely straight."

Here is a basic example of the kind of experimentation we're discussing. The kiss was an active choice and her utter lack of any emotional reaction to the choice revealed her inclination. And it was counter to the action.

And, by the way, this does not strike me as a remotely political issue (except to the degree that certain politicians have trie to make it one). I can't imagine anyone engaging in sexual behavior that turns them off solely for the purpose of making a political statement.

To jmr:

I have to disagree with "Viva ultra-liberalism!" You're right that the alternative has been horrid but that reaction is a way of saying that your head will hurt less if you bang it against the opposite wall. Or, in the words of George Orwell, "Do you want Farmer Jones back?"

The score so far:

Yesterdays Rabbits 13 Responses
Today's Sex Topic 35 Responses

Now if you just combine them, you'd really have something.