Guilt by Association

To: Mr. Peterman: Semper fi

I, too, trained with an M14 at MCRD - San Diego. I got to shoot an M16 for a couple of hours, about a week before I was shipped out to Vietnam. The joys of being a "Jarhead".

I don't believe we should engage in guilt by association unless there is an overt act that proves the association. I think we have to be careful not to judge someone guilty just because they attend a church or belong to a political party that has a platform that contains planks a particular member may not agree with. I didn't agree with everything in the Marines does that make me "guilty by association".

If the overall program is wrong-headed then participation probably would prove guilt by association. But a few details here and there are not too significant. If I don't believe one hundred percent in what our current commander-in-chief is doing (after I voted for him) does that make me guilty of something? Should I leave the country and go to Canada? Or do I stay and try to change things at the next election?

I'm not too concerned with the "guilt" part as I am about hypocrisy. There is nothing more troubling than the person who tells you what you should believe and then does the opposite. The self-righteous are very often that way.

I like sincerity, honesty and integrity above all else. I have to judge people by their actions, what they say is not always important.

What does Obama really believe? His actions are more important then his words. If he "agrees" with Wright and then says the opposite he's a hypocrite. If his life is one of actions that are opposite of Wright's words then I would question why he stays in such a church?

I think the media has concentrated on the words of Wright instead of the reasons for the words.

Wright's a fellow Marine. Would he say "Semper fi" to you and me? Good question. What does Wright's being a former Marine say about the Corps?
I guess I'll take him as a fellow Marine and a "brother-in arms" but that's about it.

Good morning Mr. Peterman, and Ex-pat. ;)

If Obama's biggest flaw is that he has a friend who doesn't believe 100% in the American mythology... well, I'd say he's doing not half bad.

Good day. Your provocative, thoughtful, well-crafted words fly through the ether, now, to friends of multi-political views. Thank you, Mr. P., most sincerely.

Post script: Thank you for referencing the McCarthy era of terror, a fearful embarrassment to our country and a healthy reminder to pause before we label. In leading us to the PBS site you do us yet another service.

Once upon a time, the Son of God, ate with a tax collector and was castigated by the good, religuous folk of that day!

When asked at a cocktail party (or worse...the office) whether I am a democrat or a republican, I always answer "yes".

To: Heiress:

If he's only"half bad" then he's also only "half-good" -- which sounds like he's one of us......

I find it interesting that our society would be so harsh on Obama and be willing to let the likes of an Elliot Spitzer off with a slap on the wrist.

I haven't decided yet who I'll vote for. It's a choice between the "next new hope" or the "same old thing" and that's not enough. John Kennedy had some odd friends and interesting relationships and he was a good president.

I don't think he couldn't get elected today.

I would like to think that I am an open-minded individual when it comes to politics. I too, agree with both parties in some areas. However, I am extremely disturbed by the whole incident with Reverend Wright. I understand the "guilt by association" defense of Senator Obama, however, my concern lies within the Senators own sincerity. The delayed timing of his denouncement came as suspect to me. Did he truly denounce the angered words and actions of Rev. Wright or was it politically motivated? In other words, did he do it just for the sake of his campaign? I choose to believe that the Senator does not concur with nor advocate such teachings, but one has to consider this: If this man becomes our commander in chief and a situation arises where he needs to quickly stand up for our rights as a country...will that be delayed as well? If he has trouble distinquishing the difference between personal and political conflict now, what would happen if he were in office and he is confronted with a sensitive matter. I do not see him as the strong and non-conforming individual that I thought he was at the beginning of this race. I feel he should have confronted this situaltion quickly, firmly, and straight forward. In my opinion, He did not do that. Whatever the outcome, this incident confimed his lack of experience for me.

Oh so many glass houses. Oh so many stones. Oh so many people willing to throw those stones regardless of the consequences.

Did we settle “this guilt by association” thing 50 years ago? Unfortunately, whatever innocence that still remained after that debacle still seems to be under attack. Only this time, the attacks are much more efficient.

Both a blessing and a curse, an almost infinite stream of information about any topic, or any person, sits literally at almost everybody’s finger tips. This information can then be translated, dissected, interpreted, and made to fit almost any agenda and literally be transmitted to the world at the speed of light. It then becomes the topic of every television and radio “shout” program, the headline of every newspaper, news magazine and search engine; all before there is any attempt at verification. I don’t think we settled the “guilt by association” issue, unfortunately I think we just eliminated the middle man (which in itself may be a good thing).

I think that the only person who could possibly stand up to this type of scrutiny is some guy named Floyd who was raised by morning doves somewhere in Kansas.

Well enough of this “happy talk”. It’s a sunny, blue-skied day in the Midwest and I’m going to get my hands dirty and my knees sore by working in the garden and holding on to hope.

Be well and own your ideas!

Oh, c'mon! McCarthyism worked quite well for quite a while for its instigators. For a certain segment of the "whatever works" crowd, the lesson drawn from its eventual collapse is more about managing media exposure than the inherent backlash of guilt by association.

I see your “guilt by association” and I raise you “Universal Health Care, that’s not as good as Hillary’s”… show me your cards. You cad dog you… the race card, beats em’ every time! Just as I wrote in my letter to congress on Wednesday of last week, I mentioned that America was once the land of the American dream; today it is the land of the American night mare. When you decide to run for President, it has to be a life long commitment. One in which you give up all things that make you want to stray from this path of becoming President and focus on how you can enrich the lives of the American people. Since I was five years old I have told everyone around me that one day I will become the President of the United States, I have made that commitment. Barack Obama didn’t have an ambition to run until about three years ago, a reporter (the lovely people they are) asked him if he was going to run it 2008. He said that believes that when you apply for a job, you should know how to do that job and be prepared for what that job will throw at you. Hmmmm… he figured out that he was the best person for the job in 2 ½ years… likely not! So the Rev. Wright “thing” was not a surprise to me at all. Rev. Wright has been in Obama’s life since he was in his early 20’s, He performed the senators marriage, came over to the house for Sunday dinners, he even compared him as his uncle at one point. I am sure that it is safe to say that they were real pals. Lots of people of faith go to their spiritual leader for advice in hard times and decision making times, we could argue that Obama did the same. I strongly agree that in this situation, Obama is guilty by association and his judgment has been forever burned in the minds of the America people… maybe not now because they are so blinded by his charm, the media bias and his ability to play the political game very well; we proved that conclusively in the North Carolina primary. Of course one good reason to live in America is because I am able to end this blog with this statement… The only reason that Obama is winning is because he is a African American male, if he was a white male, he would not be in the situation he is now… again look at North Carolina. Hillary has lost the bid, so we sit and suffer through another 8 years… I don’t think that the economy, middle class, poor and sick can last much longer!

To: Mattofyrk:

The commitment you speak about has been called "a fire in the belly". None of the candidates seem to have it.

It's like being an entrepreneur.......you either have the passion or you don't. If you don't, you are not an entrepreneur. You may be an excellent businessman, but an entrepreneur you're not.

I would prefer a president with passion and a fire in the belly than the empty suits that are running today. They say the "clothes make the man" but not so in politics. An empty suit is just an empty suit!

And that goes for Hillary, since she likes to wear suits, too!

I grew up in Missouri where I was surrounded by right-wing nut jobs. Now I live in New York where I'm surrounded by left-wing nut jobs. No wonder I'm a registered Libertarian and an affirmed centrist. But here's the thing: I have very dear, close, lifelong friends in both places with whom I disagree politically.

Where is it written that you can't be close friends for many years with someone whose politics you oppose? I have many pro-life friends in Missouri while I remain pro-choice. We have differed on this subject for as many years as we have loved each other. I have many friends in New York who favor gun-control while I continue to oppose it. We have bought each other dinner and shared many common bonds on other topics. Why is it so hard to believe that Senator Obama and Rev. Wright are in the same situation?

My understanding is that Senator Obama had often heard Rev. Wright preach political statements from the pulpit with which he disagreed. Yet, he supported both his pastor and his church because he gave Wright a lot of credit for converting him to Christianity in the first place. The reflects a sense of loyalty, consistency, tolerance, and a willingness to give credit where it is due. ALL of these are traits I would like to see in a president.

To: DreadPirateRoberts:

I'm a small "L" libertarian and a centrist. I was once a "moderate" republican who often voted for centrist democrats. And even members of other parties if it was the right thing to do.

I, too have a friend of 30 years whose political views make Obama and Hillary right of center. We have respected each other in business and frequently get together socially. We consider each other best friends. I doubt we ever voted for the same person. We wouldn't know because we don't ask each other.

By the way, I'm fascinated by the roof top gardens in Manhattan

If you want to judge everyone by the company they keep, no one would come away without a little mud spattered on them. Some of my best friends are scoundrels, and while I may not agree with their every word and deed (or politics), they have little influence on who I am. The media is guilty of distracting us with stories like this instead of focusing on the abilities (or lack thereof) of the candidates themselves.

As far as our candidates go, McCain offers 4 more years of decline with the status quo; Obama is long on the what but short on the how; and Hillary's only entertainment value would be watching that ever-increasing ass squeeze into those horrible polyester pantsuits. I will vote for no one in this election, as none are worthy of my vote.

Perhaps Mr. Peterman as a write-in. We could do much worse.

Onc Doc, I have to say, there is no one who could possibly put that more eloquently than you. Well phrased. I'd say what I think on the matter but you already have, in better terms than I could have put it.

To ExPat:

In the 1960s, my father was instrumental (mainly through writing) in the advance of the libertarian movement back when the lower case "L" was all there was. He had turned his attention to other things before the actual political party was created and would later say that he felt libertarian ideals would be better served within the larger platforms of the Republican Party. I've always disagreed with that last statement because I know plenty of people who routinely vote Democrat but consider themselves libertarian. That disconnect between favorite pet issues within those major parties and the libertarian ideal necessitates (in my mind) the existence of a separate party.

As for more pleasent topics than professional politics: Not all rooftop gardens are created equal (as you can well imagine) and the one in the movie, GREEN CARD, was certainly an urban planter's wet dream of what a rooftop garden can be. Nevertheless, I've seen some very nice ones on occasion. Probably the most famous rooftop garden in New York is at Rockefeller Center. A quick Google search brought up this beautiful photo link: http://newyorkdailyphoto.blogspot.com/2006/10/secret-rooftop-garden.html and also this other lovely photo of a private apartment's garden a few blocks south of the Queensboro Bridge (you used to be able to see it from the bridge before the walkway was changed over to the north side): http://www.nyspacesmagazine.com/pages.asp?ID=342&UID=