Laidlaw's Money Soaked World Daily Mail - UK Lord Laidlow,a multimillionaire who was appointed to the House of Lords in 2004, admitted he was addicted to sex after being secretly filmed with four prostitutes and a male gigolo in the £6,000-a-night presidential suite of Monte Carlo's sumptuous Hermitage Hotel.
Isabel Allende's Gloriously Dysfunctional Family Telegraph You would expect an incredibly successful novelist to have an enviable life, but then you haven't met her family. Let's just say they're less than perfect.
Coveting Thy Neighbor’s Condo The New York Times Construction Envy seems to be gaining in the Envy Chain and there are a few telltale signs to see you are afflicted.
May 13, 2008
You can’t open a magazine, or watch TV, without seeing beautiful, rich, perfect people that, no matter how “perfect” our lives are, seem to lead even more perfect ones.
The people that came up with the 7 Deadly Sins, an evolving classification of vices that were originally used in early Christian teachings, knew how important Envy is— sandwiching it between Wrath and Pride. Surely Envy is the one we are least likely to own up to because it typecasts us as ungenerous, mean, small-hearted, insecure and less than perfect ourselves.
I personally will admit to some of it if you will. Thanks.
Leave it to William Shakespeare to coin the phrase, in Othello. “O, beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-ey'd monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on…”
Jealousy and Envy didn’t have studies like “The Psychology of Jealousy and Envy” to tell them apart in those days, so the phrase just stuck.
Helmut Schoek, in his seminal tome on Envy, "A Theory of Social Behavior," notes that Envy, to qualify, must have a strong touch of malice behind it and manifests itself in three phases.
The first phase is basically benign and no fun at all, so we can skip to the second phase and get to the malice part. Like resenting the good fortune of another, and wishing your opponent lands in a sand trap or wishing your rival at work freezes in a meeting, or wishing someone you know loses his entire fortune in the stock market. (You’ll commiserate appropriately.)
Aeschylus, in 500 BC, probably got to the heart of it when he wrote: “It is in the character of very few men to honor without Envy a friend who has prospered.” Gore Vidal put it another way: “Whenever a friend succeeds, a little something in me dies.”
If we own up to it at all, the second phase is as far as most of us go. If it graduates to the third phase, when you choose to help those wishes along, it could mean a longer phase away from home. And your trial splashed on Tru TV. Which will be a consolation to the people that had previously envied you.
Now that we can see where envy leads, there are a few things you can do to keep this feeling under control. Whenever it rears its ugly head, I usually think of some successful, beautiful people I’ve know that are not deliriously happy. And I do believe those who have everything in the world, sometimes, lose the capacity to enjoy what they have...“What, caviar, again?” And if the marriage seems a little boring after six months, no problem. There's another beautiful person out there.
Tell me what works for you; perhaps you'll provide some enviable answers.
Jealousy Vs. Envy luc.edu Jealousy and envy differ. We often say that we are jealous when we are actually envious. Both jealousy and envy concern the possession of something — an object, a situation, a quality, a relationship with a person, etc. — and both can be selfish or unselfish. Even so, they come at possession from opposite directions.
Where Envy Ranks deadlysins.com From the most serious to least: pride, envy, anger, sadness, avarice, gluttony, and lust.
Aeschylus and His Tragedies theatrehistory.com The real "father of tragedy" Aeschylus has been justly termed, certainly deserving this title far more than Thespis, for he it was who, as Aristophanes says, "first decked out tragedy with magificence."
Onc Doc’s answer to Mr. Peterman’s question is an excellent one and it strikes a cord with me ...
May 13, 2008 1:07 PM
How often does the Green-Eyed Monster visit?
44% 25% 13% 19%
My dear Mr. Peterman, please forgive me for pointing this out in public but the "green-eyed monster" quote is from OTHELLO, not MACBETH.
As for the main topic at hand, I am very fond of the Muslim saying that you should wish for your brother the same fortune that you would wish for yourself. By the same token, I have always strongly opposed Attila the Hun's notion that "It is not enough that I succeed; all my friends must fail."
This does NOT mean that I am immune to envy. Far from it.
An old friend and colleague of mine has recently been back in touch with me after a long time of going our own way. He is an actor of increasing success. Not a star but making his living exclusively from his chosen profession which is a rare treat indeed. After the money he made from the enormously successful UGLY BETTY permitted him to move to L.A., he recently wrote me that he is doing a movie with Jonathan Pryce. I replied that, as I adore Mr. Pryce, I was very envious just as I was envious of my friend for making his living from the profession we had both embraced when young. My friend took this to mean that I was upset with him for writing about his success and wished he would stop. But he was mistaken; I feast my eyes on these letters. My envy is my own. But I am always delighted when those who are dear to me do well.
If Gore Vidal's statement was sincere, then I say he was misusing the word "friend". For no true friend can ever feel that way. We may teeter on the brink of envy without falling into the abyss of outright resentment.
I've often found the prime motivators of extremely bad behavior in business and personal life is anger and fear. It can make for a bitter business rival and the opportunity to engage in all manner of dishonest conduct. But I think that envy may be the prime motive. It may be a hidden motive, perhaps even unknown to the person himself.
I think envy may be a hidden motive in many things. If I want success in business or the trappings that success can bring is it based on envy of someone who has those things already? Probably so. In that case, envy can be turned into something constructive, but if not, then envy becomes fear, anger, and ultimately hate.
The Muslim fruitcakes who attacked the World Trade Center are a good example of what I mean. Obviously, they're full of hate. Their hate is based on anger and fear. But beneath it all is envy. They are envious of the West's success. We have a representative democracy, we have a free enterprise system, and we have freedom and liberty. Our only dress code, if not modesty, is at least common decency. We can be non-religious if we wish.
We can freely express ourselves, especially in a forum like Peterman's Eye, which is not monitored by a 1984-like censorship committee. Or the "Brain Police" as Frank Zappa once said.
Perhaps they should turn their envy into a journey that will bring them to the 21st century and a rational and compassionate humanity. But I suspect that they are not aware of "envy" as their true motive. The fear and anger which has turned to hate has buried it.
And when I compete in a triathlon, I love it when a person faster than me slips and falls and I get an advantage. Of course, that means just about half the people running have to slip and fall......now that's a sweet dream based on the greenest envy.
I once heard a joke about the difference between an American and a European that might illustrate envy. When an American sees a person in an expensive car, he asks himself "how do I get a car like that?" When a European sees a person in an expensive car he asks "how do I get him out of that car?" perhaps that illustrates in a simplistic way using envy to get what you want instead of using envy to take something away from someone.
And I know there's a Freudian theory of "envy" which is best left for another day.....................Hey, perhaps that motivates the terrorists, too.
Envy is useful. It's means there's something you ought to be doing, that you're not doing yet.
You can discover new & exciting things about yourself. Fun!
To: Heiress:
I'm not against a little envy to create a passion for achievement. I'm not opposed to the basic premise of "greed is good" either. We should not only try to achieve the same but also try to achieve more. It's not enough to invent a better mouse trap, you need to invent one that works better, too.
If you're an artist/musician do you want to be like everyone else or do you want to be better? Business, for me, is creative art. Aim for the stars and you'll surely reach the moon.
Ask someone if it's easier to make $10,000 or $100,000. They'll probably say $10,000. But it's easier to make $100,000 because, if that's your goal, then along the way you'll make the $10,000 you needed. If your goal is $10,000 you'll always just about make it because that's your self-imposed limitation.
I think I agree with you: envy is useful and envy is fun!
I meant to say that business is an art form: the art of the deal, that is, not "creative art".
reedd said...
Why does ExPat always get the best comments in ahead of everyone else?
Brooklynite said...
After facetiously casting my vote for "Never, I'm a perfect person," I am envious of all these great comments.
To DreadPirateRoberts
You're right, I have managed to get the play wrong. I would like to blame it on some envious knave, but I can't. I have changed it back to the rightful owner of the quote.
A wonderful catch, and I thank you.
To: reedd,
Because ExPat only sleeps for about two hours!
Whenever I feel a twinge of envy, I remind myself of the wealthy, successful, beautiful people I see as patients. They would gladly trade all they have for a cure. In a cancer center, you see those who will have lingering suffering envying others who will die quickly, so it's all relative.
Looking at people, for every aspect of their life you can envy, I'm pretty certain you can find something to pity in the balance. I know someone whose net worth must be in the hundreds of millions, yet he's in a loveless, bitter marriage and has never had a successful personal relationship in his life. Envy him his money, but pity him his happiness. I don't know anyone who "has it all", regardless of what the popular media portrays.
reedd said...
ExPat does
Also, I've noticed that the forum topic seems to change promptly at midnight, Eastern Standard Time. ExPat lives in California, so I would presume that he sees each topic at 9pm the previous night. Now THAT'S something to envy!
I must thank ExPat heartily for the hilarious image he has planted in my head with: "that means just about half the people running have to slip and fall".
Heiress makes an excellent point in her mention of "useful" envy. We might almost say that a certain degree of phase 1 envy is healthy. It drives the spirit of competition and leads each of us to strive to do better.
To: My friends on Peterman's Eye:
It's great being the object of everyone's envy.
My fifteen minutes of fame is now twenty minutes. Thank you LaDonna and DreadPirateRoberts, and reedd.
Everyone have a powerful and prosperous day!
ExPat
p.s thanks DreadPirateRoberts for the link in your last comment yesterday
My pleasure, ExPat. Glad you enjoyed it.
In our every day language, there are popular phrases that connect directly to envy. The most famous is "Keeping up with the Joneses". You also hear school kids all the time saying things like, "Why does HE get all the girls?" and such. It's based on the odd fallacy that if "he" didn't get the girls, that means the envious kid would. If the Joneses have something nice, that means my family would enjoy it too. But the fact that individuals have different tastes is only one part of the argument against these silly habits.
More harmful are the philosophies born of... what's the word? I guess you could call it "social envy" as opposed to "personal envy". I'm thinking of notions like, "Why should the CEO get so many millions when the receptionist is on minimum wage?" as if the justice of one had any connection to the justice of the other. If the receptionist wants to make a CEO's millions, he should put in the kind of hard work and achieve the level of customer satisfaction that the CEO does. I've worked as a receptionist in my younger days and I NEVER believed that I was entitled to the kind of money that the CEO who made my job (and so many others) possible was earning. And make no mistake; a good CEO earns every penny of his millions.
But few of us are willing to acknowledge that. Social envy stands in our way.
Onc Doc’s answer to Mr. Peterman’s question is an excellent one and it strikes a cord with me on a couple levels.
On one level, it reminds me that absolutely every single one of us mere mortals has, or if not, certainly shall feel pain, regret, heartache, sorrow and death (with a high probability of taxes). Mortality is the great equalizer. I don’t believe that means making you feel better at the expense of others, it’s more of a reminder that life is just too short for wasted energy. If you can’t translate envy into positive motivation then it’s just not worth the trip.
On a personal note, I was somewhat able to learn the same lesson the good doctor described at a fairly young age but from a different perspective (but certainly nowhere near the pain and heartbreak felt by the patience he described). I contracted polio when I was two years old (left leg and hip) and as a result, before I started elementary school with all of the other kids, I attended a special school for “crippled” children that served as kindergarten, rehab and also I think, as a safe harbor before integrating us with all the “normal” kids. In this environment I was one of the more fortunate children. I only had to walk with a brace and lifts on my shoe, but with the hope to someday be free of those aids (I’m still up and about without requiring either a brace or crutches). Many of my classmates however, were on crutches or confined to wheelchairs and would be for the rest of their lives. Some, like me, had polio. Others were victims of muscular dystrophy, cerebral palsy, or suffered from birth defects. I’ll always remember one amazing little girl who was born without arms but was able to do almost everything with her feet (including sitting at the table at lunch time, feed herself and still be able to pinch the person sitting next to her).
Before I go any further, I apologize for rambling on about this (I too hope there is a rest stop before the end of this story) but it just seemed germane to the question at hand.
The moral of the story is…..
...... I had the benefit of this experience before I was really old enough to experience, or really feel envy. This experience has helped me though life in so many ways, but it especially helps me keep things in perspective, to value and appreciate those things I have been blessed with. Does the “green eyed monster” rear its ugly head within me? Of course it does. Do I sometimes envy those who can run like the wind, walk without pain? Absolutely! But then I stop and remember my classmates at Christopher School, I remember the love, support and all the many sacrifices my parents made for me. Making a conscious choice to appreciate what you have can almost always keep the “green-eyed monster” at bay.
more on the honor rolljmr said...
In response to Dread Pirate...The are injustices in the world and pointing them out is not always a form of social envy. People are starving in this country and others; is longing for the food you (presumably) and I have a form of social envy? I don't think so...As for the secretary and the CEO I don't doubt that the in many cases the CEO earns his (usually) or her (much more rarely) keep, but there may be social factors keeping the secretary (usually a her) down, rather than simply crippling envy.
On the other hand true envy and jealousy (which are not the same thing, because in my mind jealousy involves the attribution of some kind of motive on the person it's directed towards) does corrupt whatever it touches.
Spinner said...
Here! Here! South Side John! I think I have said that I teach water therapy classes and that too keeps me in, what I consider, a little better perspective on the human condition. How can I really think that I should envy that old guy that won the triathlon when I see so many that are fighting the crippling effects of arthritis and other degenerative diseases so hard simply to be able to walk upright? They are the ones that I admire, and certainly admiration must play some part in envy, even if not acknowledged. Doesn't envying someone imply that we think that they have reached some station above us? Some station to which we too have been aspiring? Some station we have ourselves not been able to reach? It is interesting to me that in this culture with its free enterprise system of economy, we all are striving to "make it big". But we then have this strong resentment of those that have indeed made it big. Starbucks started as a corner coffee house. But they made a very good coffee and succeeded. Now there are Starbucks everywhere. I know here in Louisville, there is a local coffee house brand and many resent the "big, bad Starbucks" when a new one opens. But my husband says that the local brand is simply not as good (I don't drink coffee... sorry La Donna). So should Starbucks now take the heat for being successful? For offering a superior product? And did their success create this cultural phenomenon of accepting outrageous pricing for a cup of some wild coffee flavor, allowing the local brand to even be in business at all? Maybe instead of being envious and putting the "big, bad Starbucks" down, they should be grateful that they can ride their coat tails and have any business at all. 'Tis a conundrum. Envy seems to be a part of what drives society, but we have to learn to keep it in check.
To: Spinner,
A toast to you! We have a lot in common, as I am a Special Education Teacher, taking a little time off here in Texas. My Masters is in Emotional/Behavioral Disorders, my work has been starting programs for children with Autism. While I'm here in Texas, I'm drinking coffee : ) and enjoying my life as an artist.
To: ExPat, let's make it a half hour of fame.....
To: Spinner,
I doff my cap to you and your good work with the water therapy classes.
Be well
SSJ
p.s. and if I want a really good, lighter-than-air, bone-dry, non-fat cappuccino consistently made the same way .. . Starbucks is the place.
To: Spinner:
I've never won a triathlon or a marathon...but I'm grateful for the health and fitness level to compete at my age. My only rival is myself. At marathons there are many who are in wheel chairs, hand-crank tricycles, blind or otherwise handicapped. Triathlons have a fair share of handicapped competitors. For all the elite athletes you see in the front there are many, many more behind, struggling. I do not envy them as much as I admire the dedication and will-power they have to do something like a triathlon or a marathon.
I don't really admire the elites who finish in two hours, I admire those who suffer for 6 or 7 hours to finish; especially those whose handicaps cause them to finish many hours after I've gone home, or even the next day!
Believe me, it's a physical and mental challenge even when you're blessed with all the body parts in working order. To do so without my "advantages" is not something I would envy at all. It's more like total respect. When I suffer the pain and discomfort of a competition I quickly get over it when I see others for whom pain and discomfort often comes before they start.
By the way, I''m a big supporter of the "Special Olympics". The look on their faces when they've accomplished something they thought only a whole athlete could do is priceless.
I have a favorite Starbuck's where I'm sitting right now enjoying a tall decaf of the day and working with my laptop computer. (I'm still trying to understand how a "tall' is really small and the price is the same as a large anywhere else, and then you have to deal with the concept [or marketing genius] of vente and grande).
I am a great admirer of Adam Smith and his theories on self-interest (he didn't speak of selfishness) in business. Most people have heard of his Wealth of Nations, but few know of his second book "A Theory of Moral Sentiments". In that book her speaks of "sympathy for others less fortunate". Today I would translate "sympathy" to "compassion".
I think, LaDonna, my half hour is up.
JillyBean said...
Sometimes I feel envious of the beautiful people. ...but then I get over it. Because what does that get you? Nothing but aggravation and self pity. If you want to make your dreams come true, don't waste one single minute of your precious time wishing things were different. Do something about it. Treasure what you've got. And wish everyone else the best.
I am going to join the Spinner admiration society. In my case, it is for her spot-on understanding of the wide-spread hatred of Starbucks when their competitors should be grateful for the creation of a market in which they can thrive. Incidentally, I don’t care for Starbucks and consider their product anything but superior, but that is entirely beside the point.
This brings me back to the topic of CEOs and jmr’s comment that they don’t “earn their keep”. They are keeping you and me alive, friend. You complain that they scheme to “keep secretaries down” (as if such action could possibly benefit them) while missing the fact that CEOs are the very ones who prop those secretaries up in the first place. Without the CEO, there IS NO secretary. So I say, yes this is social envy. It is NOT pointing out an injustice. The sense of social envy makes it appear that there is an injustice when there is none. I should thank you for illustrating the point so well.
Let us consider our esteemed host, Mr. Peterman. He started with a duster jacket and built a company on a dream. He worked hard for this and now employs a staff. As the head of his company, he makes more money than anyone on his staff. Without him, none of them would have a job. Is he scheming to keep his secretaries down? Has he failed to earn his keep? Is he committing an injustice by keeping the profits of his business while someone around the corner may be desperate for bread? Should he be required to turn over some of the profits for which he has worked all his life to his hungry neighbor who didn’t work for them? There are many who would say yes. They are not pointing out a genuine injustice. They are committing an act of social envy.
thecatalyst said...
CEO's seems to have become the new "big oil" and "big pharmaceutical" as the villians du jour. They are an easy target when you want to whip up social or class envy. I guess you can envy and resent them if that 's your persuasion, but the vast majority of them certainly did not get where they are by winning some kind of lottery, or because the look hot. They got to the top by working hard and possessing abilities that most do not. I'd say you can envy their talents, but they also deserve at least a little respect and admiration.
South-Side John,
I like your new avatar!
jmr said...
I'm hardly saying that CEOs are evil, hardly and I said that many DO earn their keep not that they don't as you misquoted me. Smart, hardworking people deserve what they attain in life. However, there are plenty of hardworking, smart people who don't have as easy a time achieving CEO-like success. It's naive and unfair to discount injustice and claim that it's entirely due to the fact that those people are held back by social envy.
A CEO of a profitable, viable and successful firm deserves all the rewards they can get. However, using Countrywide Mortgage as an example, once that company is hemorrhaging money, the seven-figure bonuses and stock options should cease.
To jmr:
So sorry! I totally misread your first post! You're quite right that I misquoted you, as I completely missed the word "don't". I thought you had said, "I doubt that the in many cases the CEO earns his keep" rather than "I DON'T doubt..." etc. Really changes the meaning there. Please accept my apologies for my clumsiness.
On to your most recent post: You are right that it is naive to discount injustice. But I'm still waiting for a tenable explanation of how Joe CEO keeping the wealth he works for while I struggle to feed my family constitutes an injustice. So far, there seems to be nothing to discount.
I will happily acknowledge the injustice of, say, the Big Three car manufacturers using power and intimidation to muscle Preston Tucker out of the auto business. I can certainly see injustice in a powerful 1950s studio head firing a perfectly competent actor simply because Joe McCarthy didn't like his politics. But I don't get the feeling that that's the sort of thing we're really talking about here.
To: La Donna
Thanks, he just followed me over from the Cirque du Soleil web site.