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Primary Politics

January 31, 2012

With the Florida primary about to become history, it might behoove us to ask.

Is the primary system working?

There are certain inequities.

Iowa and New Hampshire lead off things and are the first to cast their opinion, can rule out trailing candidates long before the rest of the country has even had a chance to weigh in.

The last states, on the other hand, have virtually no input in the process.

Originally, caucuses were the main method to select candidates where local party supporters sat around in smoke filled rooms to select their favorites.

The primaries (and Oregon was the first in 1910) got it out of the backrooms and into the hands of the people. 

A good idea.

But no one doubts that the present primary system is exhausting and expensive for candidates who spend for advertising, moving their national team around the country — to give basically the same speech over and over again.

And exhausting for the voters having to listen to them.

It’s also confusing.

There are closed primaries, like in Florida. Semi-Closed. Semi-Open and Open. Yes, some states still have caucuses.

It would take a political scholar to fully explain the highly subtle differences and ramifications from state to state.

So what do we do to rectify it?

Some propose a National Primary Day or perhaps a week or two, when you can lump all the state primaries together.

Or do we just leave the process alone?

With all its flaws, it does give you a chance, for better or worse, to get to know the candidates and see how they fare under pressure. 

Keep it or modify it?

How do you vote?

J. Peterman

 

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Under Construction: Design Stuff & Member Commenting - Changes Soon.
117 Members’ Opinions
January 31, 2012 12:04 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

Too many alleged "debates."

Too much noise.

Too much general silliness.

Too much emphasis on the trivial.

Too much too long.

Check back with me in early November.

January 31, 2012 12:04 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

Too many alleged "debates."

Too much noise.

Too much general silliness.

Too much emphasis on the trivial.

Too much too long.

Check back with me in early November.

January 31, 2012 1:02 AM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

You could tweak the system by having a 'none of the above option' a.k.a., 'is this the best we can offer'.

Or

Totally reengineer the system into a winner takes all dodgeball tournament....or maybe a demolition derby.

If only somebody would invent a good bulls$!t detector and save us all a lot of time, money, and of course....... Months of aggravating b.s.

Gosh......I sound kinda negative ...... I had best get my beauty rest.

Nos da

January 31, 2012 1:26 AM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

As far as getting 'to see how the candidates fare under pressure', the pressures of the primaries is nothing compared to the real world pressures they will be faced with, or their ability to handle the exponentially greater consequences of their actions should they get the job.

It boils down to a leap of faith by the voters; as it would regardless of what system is used...... And it seems like the voters faith has been tested quite a bit lately.

more on the honor roll
January 31, 2012 1:36 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Let me see now....each of these States,(50!)have some sort of primary....and,if Florida is a prime example,and they spent a combined $20MILLION!!!, well, that could have really done a good job at a food bank...but the poor don't count/vote.....(but the TV execs that GOT the most of that $20MILLION-each have ONE F%^&N VOTE...)I digress...WE have to watch this circus 50 F%^&N times....Oh Yes, I remember my point now...no, I don't. something is wrong....global warming?....nah....NO, way more elemental..... the government (small "G") is there to keep air planes from falling into poison beef ,burried next to the poisoned spinach....and,simply, the government runs on our taxes...(the military paycheck/foodstamps,come from our taxes)(and the over-paid millionaire Senate paychecks,too)...so, how come the Millionair$ want us to pay their taxes?...jus sayin

January 31, 2012 5:18 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

I agree with LOTLOT----talk to me in November. It just seems like the most extraordinary waste of money and time. I don't believe any of them about anything and we are months away from the Electoral College versus General Election topic. Every four years I want to bury my head-++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-(that was my cat==I thought his opinion was as on point as mine).

January 31, 2012 5:54 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

LOT, RY, PL, & CHEFD...........................Agreed! For years now we have had to vote for the person we have found least objectionable not the person who moves us....................it's enough to drive a person to a hotdog....................

January 31, 2012 6:09 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

OK, then, muffin, English, toasted and lubricated with Welsh butter. Coffee.

January 31, 2012 7:24 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

I fondly remember the days when the states would bring their favorite sons
to the national convention. When the primaries weren't winner take all.  I
reckon it still happens but the days of smoke filled back room politics seem
less smoky. Mr. Chairman, the great state of Opulence casts
12 votes for our favorite son John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt and 24 votes for
our party's pet the great poobah, the next potus Senator Windbag.

Then in a close contest, everyone would retire to the smoke filled room, pour a
glass of bourbon, light up a stogie and turn those favorite son votes over to
Senator Windbag. Those were the days, when politic was politics.

January 31, 2012 7:33 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Lynn830 said...

I will disagree with Mr. Peterman that moving from caucuses to primaries was a good thing.  The professional politicans picked men who were professional at governing, frequently very capable.  The primary system picks people who look good on television and can use rhetoric to stir up the pot.  These are men who are terrific at running for office and all too often terrible at governing.  Having Adlai Stevenson running against Dwight Eisenhower, barring your ideological preferences, was a contest of two bright men with great leadership qualities.  Even the 1948 election of Truman versus Thomas Dewey was a contest of two capable men.  When I look at the primary field now, I don't see the same quality.  I see ideological fools like Ron Paul and immoral hypocrytes like Newt Gingrich.  So, for me, I'd rather see the professionals use their skills to pick people who have the talent to govern and not have primaries that bring out only the political hacks.  Right now, I think the proof of the failure of the primary system is the idelogical gridlock in the Senate and House of Representatives where they have lost all skill and will to govern.  That's what they are elected to do - to find the best path for the country, not shut it down over some ideological snit.  All they are doing is perpetually running for office.

January 31, 2012 7:36 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Another bone of contention about the whole process that I have , is that it is yet another way to judge people with total false parameters. When I moved up here and opened a business in an exclusive little enclave, I did not feel free to register in the party of my choice for fear of customer problems! How bu**s**t is that!

Flashback!! PAOLOS in my family growing up, the favorite son was John Jacob Jingleheimer JONES!

Everything just seems to revolve around the almmighty kroner. Remember when they just "won the pennant"? Granted baseball lovers like an extended season but thats not why they do it, they do it to make more money. All these political debates and brouhaha are the same thing. How many media people can you employ, how much ad space is sold, blah blah blah. You are SOOOO right Paolos, bring back good old crooked politics.

That being said, I do believe in think globally, act locally. I do get involved in local politics because I feel accomplishments are possible at this level. I do not feel that way about national politics. I am not looking forward to this year.

January 31, 2012 7:37 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

oh and Hazel, for me Grilled Cheese Sandwich and coffee. Still feeling the need for a touch of sweet....

January 31, 2012 7:39 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Lynn ~ That sounds like a good argument for repeal of the 17th amendment.

January 31, 2012 8:32 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

One more thing, Lynn, Jim Neewton's Eisenhower, the White House Years.  It is a good read even if you lived those years as something more than a wee lad.

January 31, 2012 8:41 AM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Will Rogers is my man and has been since I was a gleam in Grandpa Typical's eye back in '32 when he said "This country has gotten where it is in spite of politics, not by the aid of it. That we have carried as much political bunk as we have and still survived shows we are a super nation." If you don't like the two party system form your own party and make your own rules. Nobody forces you to watch debates or read the papers/watch TV/or talk radio. Fact is most people are so lazy you can't even get em to vote or register even if you offer to drive them to the polls. The concept of entering any type of competition and not having the desire to win and a thick enough skin to see it through is a recipe for disaster. Do your history. There have been no "clean" elections or primaries or perfect candidates. Enemies become friends quickly. And when I was a gleam in my Stoic ancestor, Tommius Typicalis's eye, Epictetus wisely said something like "People are not disturbed by things, but by the view they take of them."

January 31, 2012 9:13 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Bravo Tommy, bravo. Kudos and props.

January 31, 2012 9:33 AM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Now that travel of Americans to Cuba is no longer illegal, I feel driven to pack a suitcase and my passport, plus of course pictures of my daughter, and fly from Key West to Havana. I am no Hemingway, but I know what the perfect storm preceding a train wreck looks like. Might take some of Key West's 6-toed feral cats that prowl the grounds of the Hemingway Museum with me......

January 31, 2012 9:51 AM
10041_445991248814972_692962064_n Com-100Com-300First-comHr-1 The Giraffe said...

Deb - I'm with you on this - it's too much BS and starts the day after Inaugration.  At this point I am not caring who does what.  The whole thing needs to change and be shortened to a couple of months.  We seem to be broke and these candidates are finding millions to support this exhausting endeavor.  Something is seriously wrong with this system.  Will check back on the subject in November - maybe.  I think I am just getting old.
GOOD DAY eYe-sters!

January 31, 2012 9:52 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Peter and Lot ~ Totally agree with both of you....way too much noise, way too much information about things that aren't important.  And yes, wouldn't it be great to have a button that said "Is this the best you can do!?!?!?!?!?!  And short of not voting, how can you choose none of the above except for a wasted vote, a write-in?  My son in law writes in Colin Powell, who by the way, I would love to see run, but it does no good.  As well, the media would never allow a just and right man or woman to run unimpeded.  They would dig until they found some wart that they could broadcast over and over until to some pea brains, it becomes important.  Very sad in a country with such wonderful human resources, that it comes down to those choices.  How very, very sad for our great country that we settle not just for mediocrity, but ineptness because they look good, or in our present case, sound good with nothing to back it.

January 31, 2012 10:20 AM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


"Sometimes, this facet of Romney’s personality isn’t so subtle. In July 1996, the 14-year-old daughter of Robert Gay, a partner at Bain Capital, had disappeared. She had attended a rave party in New York City and gotten high on ecstasy. Three days later, her distraught father had no idea where she was. Romney took immediate action. He closed down the entire firm and asked all 30 partners and employees to fly to New York to help find Gay’s daughter. Romney set up a command center at the LaGuardia Marriott and hired a private detective firm to assist with the search. He established a toll-free number for tips, coordinating the effort with the NYPD, and went through his Rolodex and called everyone Bain did business with in New York, and asked them to help find his friend’s missing daughter. Romney’s accountants at Price Waterhouse Cooper put up posters on street poles, while cashiers at a pharmacy owned by Bain put fliers in the bag of every shopper. Romney and the other Bain employees scoured every part of New York and talked with everyone they could – prostitutes, drug addicts – anyone.That day, their hunt made the evening news, which featured photos of the girl and the Bain employees searching for her. As a result, a teenage boy phoned in, asked if there was a reward, and then hung up abruptly. The NYPD traced the call to a home in New Jersey, where they found the girl in the basement, shivering and experiencing withdrawal symptoms from a massive ecstasy dose. Doctors later said the girl might not have survived another day. Romney’s former partner credits Mitt Romney with saving his daughter’s life, saying, “It was the most amazing thing, and I’ll never forget this to the day I die.”So, here’s my epiphany: Mitt Romney simply can’t help himself. He sees a problem, and his mind immediately sets to work solving it, sometimes consciously, and sometimes not-so-consciously. He doesn’t do it for self-aggrandizement, or for personal gain. He does it because that’s just how he’s wired.Many people are unaware of the fact that when Romney was asked by his old employer, Bill Bain, to come back to Bain & Company as CEO to rescue the firm from bankruptcy, Romney left Bain Capital to work at Bain & Company for an annual salary of one dollar. When Romney went to the rescue of the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics, he accepted no salary for three years, and wouldn’t use an expense account. He also accepted no salary as Governor of Massachusetts.Character counts!"

God forbid we should have to put up with that.
  

January 31, 2012 10:30 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Stoney ~ Good story, and thank you.  It does prove a point though; too much noise and pointless information in the primaries to get a grip on a good person.  And, of course, a story like this is never one the media would blast all over as they do so much garbage.

January 31, 2012 10:45 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

Seems to me the purpose of the state primaries is that the candidates do get out among the people, shake hands, talk to small town groups, and have the common touch...otherwise, the voters would have no contact with them at all. Just judging candidates by their ads and TV appearances is obviously flawed. I agree with Lynn about the brash Newt ( and his fakey looking wife), and the elderly sweetie Paul....no good as Pres. Their appearances on debates and talks shows have at least given us some idea of their views and personalities, which helps in deciding about voting for or against. (However, I can't help thinking that Truman would not have been elected on those terms, and probably lots of others.)

Debates are good, but need to be kept on issues, not family or personal attacks, and not so many of them! A limit on number and kind of debates, a limit on spending, and a limit on personal attacks. Frankly, Newt's stuff about Romney's wealth has backfired ...to me....The fact that Mitt has been a businessman, accumulated wealth, governed a complex state, and has the same wife and family seems to me to speak well for him. I don't want a poor guy up there for a candidate bc he is vulnerable to any rich manipulator; needing money, he will cave in to whoever pays his bills, and we know how that works out!!

January 31, 2012 10:52 AM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

Somebody once said, "those that can win an election aren't fit to serve."  Which is a real shame.  Some wonderful people, once they begin to run for office, get their heads warped by who knows what, and what used to make them wonderful gets lost.  That was a great story about Romney, who I am sure is a nice, if awkward guy.  I think Ron Paul would teach interesting classes.  Rick Santorum really believes in his values (although I disagree with them and his insistance that others be ruled by them).  Gingrich certainly thinks outside the box.  Yet, what are the major topics of debate?  Specific tax, healthcare, welfare, incentives, etc.?  No.  The topics are Gingrich's wives and Romney's money.  Although I know the States would never change to a parlimentary system like Canada, I do appreciate how the elections are 36 days long.  We have very strict campaign spending laws, and 36 days is the minimum length a campaign must last, and since candidates have little money, they can only mount the shortest campaign possible.  Money in politics is not new, but it is getting harder to pretend it isn't.  I'm with Peter, dodge ball tournament, winner take all.

January 31, 2012 11:30 AM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

********************JUST VOTE **************************Tommy Typical......typical you're not.................love the theartical, outlandish, fun, and historical  jargons....silent pictures...secret langauge of you posts.....saw the movie Artist...The Artist .....wonderful.....silent flick....a must see...must do....movie....thank goodness for color...the movie was also done in only black and white....colors....super memoritive of the vaudeville era...

January 31, 2012 11:57 AM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

I totally agree with SAJJohnson.  There is just too much money involved in running for public office. Shorten out the campaign and take the big money out of it.  Imagine that. We might have to look at a candidate's record and core ideas in order to get an idea of what he/she is running for and about.  I really don't care about their money (unless it was obtained illegally) nor their wives or their private lives.
 
You know things are really out of whack when it is the Republicans that are fussing about Romney's money.  What is that about????  He's getting more grief than Kerry did.

January 31, 2012 12:05 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

Stoney, Thanks for a great insight into one candidate's character. Too bad this is the first time I've heard it. It says a lot about what  politics and the fourth-estae has come to. Probably wouldn't bring in a donation or buy commercial time/space.

January 31, 2012 12:13 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

George ~ First I heard of it as well, yet the media loved Newt's ex spouting off and suddenly, OMG, he won a primary! ! ! !   That kind of news, Mitt Romney's,  just does't sell for some reason; not what we seem to want to hear. 
 
We do need, as Violet Rose said, to get out and vote, not if it's convenient, not if it's not raining or snowing, not if it doesn't fit into our schedule, WE NEED TO GET OUT AND VOTE !

January 31, 2012 12:25 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Agree Stoney.  A guy with genuine character.  In spite of the fact that he's a (dirty word) Millionaire (roadyacht) who pays his own taxes, and doesn't want your help (Roadyacht).  A self made man with character.  I can't remember the last time we had one of those in office.  Well, I can remember, I just won't mention the name, although we all know it.  Begins with an R, in case anyone's truly stumped.  

January 31, 2012 12:27 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Seems to me that being a "good" man just about automatically disqualifies you from holding the highest office in the land. You just about have to be a cleaned up, properly "spinned" shyster in order to qualify. A "good man" is code for a weak man. A "spiritual" man is code for a fanatic with a Ouija board as guide. A "Moral" man is a man that can't be trusted.

When the smoke clears and at the end of it all, it seems, is a cleaned and well informed skunk. In his left hand is his wind sock, secured on a high stick so he know's which way the political wind is blowing in hopes of re-election. Flying lower but in his right hand is the flag of the party to whom he pledges his allegiance.

He is perched upon a huge stack of money. Truth is, his stack was bigger than all the rest of the suckers running, and it's all he has left so he wins.

Shameful.

January 31, 2012 12:35 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

STONEY ~ Good story. It reminds me of the 2008 film with Liam Neeson TAKEN. A mission where the father has 96 hours to rescue his daughter from a human trafficking/ prostitution ring. I never thought of Mr. Romney as a take charge kind of guy.  Your story is illuminating.

January 31, 2012 12:35 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

...as always.

January 31, 2012 12:36 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Stoney, that is an interesting story about Romney.  I wonder why the media hasn't embraced it.  I think it's worth telling.
Whenever I see Romney I think about The Onion spoofing his healthcare reform in Mass.  It said:

"Every day I am haunted by the fact that I gave impoverished Massachusetts citizens a chance to receive health care," Romney told reporters Wednesday, adding that he feels ashamed whenever he looks back at how he forged bipartisan support to help uninsured Americans afford medicine to cure their illnesses. "I'm only human, and I've made mistakes. None bigger, of course, than helping cancer patients receive chemotherapy treatments and making sure that those suffering from pediatric AIDS could obtain medications, but that's my cross to bear."


"My hope is that Republican voters will one day forgive me for making it easier for sick people-especially low-income sick people-to go to the hospital and see a doctor," Romney added. "It was wrong, and I'm sorry."


 


I thought it was pretty funny.

January 31, 2012 12:47 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Andy, Romney's way ahead in Florida.  Maybe this time character will indeed count.  Let's hope so.........................One more thing, in general:  I'm grateful for all of this (albeit too expensive) television coverage, because earlier I found myself in Gingrinch's corner, I liked his "honest" message, his way of delivering it.  But I've watched all the debates and I think I've put the talking heads/media bias against Gingrich into perspective, and just from watching the two of them specifically, Romney and Gingrich, I'm not a Gingrich supporter any longer.  It seems he does indeed hold a grudge, take down names, and keep a list of past slights - like many politicians, but Gingrich seems to hold grudges and wears them on his sleeve, rather than keeping them close to the vest so to speak - and I don't care for people who do that.  To one degree or another, we all can recall past slights but I think a healthy mind recalls them then puts them back into the back of their mind - and an unhealthy mind (or personality) never forgets, indeed, it seems to thrive on recalling them, and bringing them up, over and over and over.  It's not a good character trait, and a President shouldn't have it.  And I think Newt Gingrich does, which means I no longer consider him presidential material.   We'll see what Florida thinks, about 2 seconds after the polls close this evening.

January 31, 2012 12:51 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

I missed the funny, i Marjorie. ??

January 31, 2012 12:51 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Good morning from the West Coast! Yesterday, I read all your wonderful fish and chips stories, but having never had 'real' fish and chips, I merely salivated over the offerings on the page rather than sharing my own experience at Long John Silver's.
 
Today's topic though, it's a doozy. Especially since, when I get home this evening, our channel will be tuned to the primary results and all the pundits' pontifications on said results.
 
I can only think that we need to give each candidate two TV spots and one hour special in mid-August to pitch his/her case to the respective parties. (which both desperately need to be overhauled). These spots/special should be financed by the government. No other money should be able to be contributed. Period. By anyone. Then the government can focus on passing things that might help people rather than useless proclamations of 'I love a goat' day and 'thanks for the brownies, Steve', which are the only things the current Legislative branch can agree to.
 
I'm sad to see that wonderful story about Romney which has only shown up here. I'm equally sad to guess how many people really believe in this country and it's potential and never run because they aren't already in the pocket of big government money... Buddy Roemer, who was never on a debate because he wasn't insane like Bachmann, Cain or Perry and so didn't make good television, is a perfect example. Though I don't agree with Roemer's ideas, they were solid conservative ideas, not radically off-the-charts right or left...
 
I'm with Peter - Dodgeball Tournament - or maybe a Mythbuster's syle demolition-athon... And a good Bulls&%t detector would be useful in so many areas. Perhaps income from leasing the BS detector to online dating services could be used to finance the ads/tv specials...
 
 

January 31, 2012 12:54 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Park 4--Romney never said what was in those quotation marks. It was The Onion spoofing him.

January 31, 2012 1:00 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Thank you STONEY. He needs you as Campaign Manager.

January 31, 2012 1:02 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Oh.  I didn't think he did.  The Onion is too far over my head I guess, I marjorie.

January 31, 2012 1:03 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

"financed by the government" - oh cassiepants, there's a big problem in that.  Big. Problem.

January 31, 2012 1:08 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Park4~ If our goal is to get real, qualified people into government and 'politicians' as a species out, the only way to do it is to remove the insane amount of fundraising which currently happens in lieu of actual action in the federal government. I agree that government financing isn't an ideal situation. But what's going on right now - with over $20 MILLION spent in Florida alone - and for a primary? That's not better...

January 31, 2012 1:24 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

I have ,for a long time, felt that only a person that can vote for a candidate could donate to that persons campaign. If you live in Ohio you could not donate to someone in Oregon or vice versa. You could only donate to someone in your state running for senate or for the repreerntive in your district and every one could vote for the president. Again only those that are registered to vote could donate. That would exclude companies. corporations etc. they do not vote. Only the people in them vote. Also have a limit on the size of donation anyone could give. Maybe that would help take some of the undue influence out of politics. Maybe with a lot less money avqilable som many totally unqualified people would look elsewhere for money. I do dream don't I?

January 31, 2012 1:26 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

One other thing-Why does politics and party loyalty make otherwise nice people lose their sense of humor and perspective

January 31, 2012 1:32 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

rwh1~ I love your idea! I would totally vote for you and donate to your campaign. Wait, do you live in California? :D
 
And to your other comment, I'm afraid that the 'politically correct' movement, which is well-intentioned, has had a devastating effect on the humor that is allowed in the national dialogue... And I think sportsmanship - which used to mean admiring and respecting your foe while attempting to win - now means hating the opponent, no matter what... It's sad, really...

January 31, 2012 1:40 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Well, with the Supreme Court decision allowing corporations to fund campaigns, I don't think your idea will float rwh1.  Are corporations people?

January 31, 2012 2:01 PM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

I think it'd be fun to get rid of parties, as an experiment.  You know, vote for the person you think would represent you most closely.. Park4, Do you feel Obama is not self-made?  He may not be super-rich, but he came from nothing and is now the President.  I think that is impressive, regardless of agreement/disagreement with his policies.

January 31, 2012 2:13 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

My mother used to say "there should be the red party and the blue party and they should alternate every 8 years."

January 31, 2012 2:14 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

Self-made?


No, it took a lot of grooming, coaching, PR, planning, and backdoor financing for his makeover, so as to have him appear more palatable to the American people.

January 31, 2012 2:22 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Miss Blue - I'd love to know a single politician on the national stage that doesn't have exactly the kind of assistance your talking about to have them appear more palatable to the American people. Watching the Republican debates is a primer in how much coaching goes on in between debates - as you could see all the candidates evolve and test different messages/approaches over time.
 
Self-made, to me, would refer to the fact of President Obama's having had a single mom, being raised by his grandparents, and finding his way to public life. His is not the only story that reads in similar fashion. And effective oration, whether you agree with the message or not, is a gift. That's why John Kerry was a non-starter in 2004. Even though many people didn't like G.W. Bush for a second term, Kerry couldn't even make paint dry his speaking style was so unfocused and boring.

January 31, 2012 2:23 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Ah, crud. The kind of assistance *you're talking about. Can't believe I screwed that one up... Must need more caffeine...

January 31, 2012 2:27 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

I am referring to his socialist tendencies and sympathies.

January 31, 2012 2:27 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

S.A.J. Johnson:  Obama is indeed a self made man, who worships his creator. ... And moreover, Obama was made - in the sense that the Mafia "makes" someone.  He was chosen by those in the Democratic party to be the president, and from day one when he came out of nowhere and landed in the Illinois Senate (where he never voted Aye or Nay, but always only "present" so his record when he ran for President would be untainted by opinions right or left - and then all of a sudden here's this self proclaimed black Jack Kennedy being touted as the best thing - the only thing - that could save our country from itself.  Oh-kay.  So here we are.  Up to our knees in the worst recession we've had in my memory.  .... I could go on. And on.  None of us knew Barack Obama, certainly I did not, or I wouldn't have voted for him.  .... And moreover, SAJ, Obama has never worked in the private sector, so as far as "self made" no, he is not.  He has no business experience, which is painfully obvious when he tries to talk about economics without a cue card.  A self made man, in the usual sense of the word, is one who has worked for what he is worth, in the monetary sense, in the material sense.  Romney is a self made man.  Obama?  He smiled and glad handed his way through his life, taking money from others, on his way into the  big white house in DC,  That's not a self made man.  That's the description of a clever conniving man of low degree, who is willing to sell his soul in order to stay in that house.  Good character and Obama, sadly, have turned out to be strangers.  It is time to pack his bags, which he will be doing, with the help of the American people, come Election Day in November.

January 31, 2012 2:29 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

And those of his backers, mentors and handlers.

January 31, 2012 2:31 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Get rid of parties?  Oh help.  What would you suggest?

January 31, 2012 2:37 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Got that right, Miss Blue.  All of it, especially that part about socialism.  It lights his fire, socialism does.  It sure doesn't light mine.  "Socialism is the ism dismal-ist of all."

January 31, 2012 2:56 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Why is socialism so bad? It works for the NFL.

January 31, 2012 2:58 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

I believe I'll have a nice cup of hot cocoa and say farewell to you all for the afternoon. My feelings are fierce ones regarding the way that we could be taking care of the least among us and are not. And if that makes me a socialist, then perhaps I am.
 
All I know is that my father-in-law was treated in Canada where he lives, for colon cancer, without any expense to him. That same treatment, which is traumatic and exhausting in and of itself, has bankrupted and ruined many a family in America. If we are the greatest nation on earth, why do we have to spend so much on prescription drugs and insurance? And why are women here having to fight to continue to have some say in their own health care?
 
Time will tell what happens. Just know, dear ones, that if the Republican party's goal is to get Obama out of the White House in November, the current series of fiascoes that are called 'debates' are not helping their cause with independent voters.

January 31, 2012 3:01 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


The Romney piece was posted as much for analysis as for advocacy mostly because, never having understood what having "Community Organizer" as a resume enhancer meant, it was suddenly pretty clear.
When corporate money is decried as the root of corruption in politics, it is worth taking a minute to note that though corporate entities have some of the legal rights of the individual citizen, one of them is not the right to vote.
What we are saying is that we are so easily duped and herded that we can be influenced away from one candidate and toward another by the power of thirty or sixty second TV spots. It's that simple and as long as both sides are equally willing and able to engage in it, who cares?
Every six years in two year increments we are charged as citizens to send or return five hundred and thirty seven or, in some cases, two more than that, persons to Washington to act, neither in their interest nor in ours but in the best interest of our country and those considerations are rarely the same.
We have not exactly covered ourselves in glory in that respect.
As far as some members of congress acting to obstruct the administration's plans to spend more trillions in borrowed money, they ran for office promising to do that defeating their opponents fair and square. That is how a democratic republic is meant to function.

This is interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/opinion/brooks-the-great-divorce.html?src=me&ref=general

January 31, 2012 3:09 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Stoney, I love David Brooks. I love his idea about National Service.  Thanks for the read.

January 31, 2012 3:20 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

In the late 50's on the Jack Paar show the head of the DNC was ask if we didn't deserve better officials and his response was No we get what we deserve. When more people get more active in their local and state politics and really know the candidates, the party platforms, who is actually for what we will continue to get what we have. That is true today as ever. Whatever comes from the parties in the way of information or from most of those running is a mixture of political spin, half truths and outright lies. This is both parties and a big reason I an an independant.

January 31, 2012 3:22 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

I do wish they had given Obama the Oprah Show.

January 31, 2012 3:24 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

When I was quite young my parents instilled in me the will to never give up, despite the odds, if the goal is truly worth the trip.....which has helped me in many ways. Granted, it is a pretty subjective notion and I have learned the hard way to avoid committing to a fools errand..... Sometimes that is.

Which is the long road to say that when it comes actually repairing/improving the political systems and mechanisms we have now, I would be portrayed as the cat barely hanging on to the limb of a tree on the poster that says 'hang in there baby'.

The pitiful bit of common ground where there was shared a mission of working for the common good of all those they represent is getting smaller and smaller. They seem to have forgotten that they represent all citizens, not just those who voted for them and/or supported their campaign.

The power to make the necessary changes to improve the election process is in their hands and sadly they cannot see their way to make any changes that would benefit everyone, and not just their party. In other, we seem to be stuck in an endless loop of mediocrity bordering on insanity.

Good, even great ideas continue to fall on deaf ears unless the question of "what's in it for me?" has a positive answer.

Well that's my catharsis and I'm sticking to it......meanwhile I'll continue to vote and hope that it still means something.

Although right now, I would be tempted to vote for the candidate whose Vice Presidential running mate campaigned in a t-shirt that said " I'm with stupid"

Peace out

January 31, 2012 3:26 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Interesting article Stoney.  I have a hard time with statistics, and grouping people in any way, that's me, because I don't like to be labeled although I fit into one of Brook's tribes seamlessly.  .... I was disappointed in the last paragraph, I don't think a National Service Program would do anyone much good, not the upper tribe participants or the lower tribe participants.  When the game is over, the kings and the pawns all go back to their own places, and never the twain shall meet again....Experience tells me so...and it's no fault of either tribe members, it's - there's no fault in it for anyone at all.  Temporary immersion with those of another tribe might make a difference to a few, but those few will be the ones who will not need the experience in the first place, because, somehow, they will already know it, the lesson, innately I guess.  But it's an interesting article - and the comments were good too.  One fellow's blaming Lyndon Johnson's Great Society for the wide divide.  And here I'd gone and forgotten all about the Great Society.

January 31, 2012 3:31 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Anyone recall the social bible of the late '60's:  The Rich and the Super Rich.  I'm going on memory only here, but I'll take a stab and say, by Vance Packard?  It was so easy:  Upper Rich, Lower Rich, Upper Middle, Lower Middle, and Lower.   I don't remember lower lower or upper lower, but they could have been in there.  If I wanted to spend the time, I'd try to find a copy and read it again, just to see if it's only Packard's words and labels that have changed, or have the tribes themselves changed.  In significant ways.  Dunno.

January 31, 2012 3:43 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Well, forget that, there was an American writer, social critic named Vance Packard, who died in 1996, but he didn't write a book called The Rich and the Super Rich.  And this going to bother me, because in 1970, on New Years Eve, I had a horrible cold, and spent the night in my apartment at college reading a book that defined American social structure as upper rich, lower rich, upper middle - but I don't know what it was.  Funny I thought of Vance Packard, since I haven't thought of Vance Packard in decades.  December 31, 1970 to be exact.  Now I will have to google to try to find out for myself what I thought I remembered very well.  Bottom Line:  ignore what I wrote @ 3:31, if you haven't already.

January 31, 2012 4:02 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

I am helping a friend who is running for mayor and we had a little discussion last night. I presented my view of government or business, marriage or even religion for that matter like I do an investment. My taxes, my capital, my love & faith are an investment in the particular institution. I want an ROI. Sometimes I get a fair return, sometimes a modest one, and sometimes zero or a loss. Therefore I enter everything as a skeptic but my degree of risk is for the most part is based on my own logic but there is a part of me that operates at a gut level and there's those nagging documents The Constitution, SEC, Marriage Certificate, The Bible that ultimately keeps things in some sort of check. paolos spoke of a greater law the other evening- Truth. Truth always prevails in the end. Somehow. If we are lovers of Truth, we do not put our faith in any politician, any party, or any institution, we trust in our own selves and rely on the light to guide us as we seek to be the most honest person we know. There is no need to tell others that you are, Truth speaks for Itself.

January 31, 2012 5:19 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

Miss Blue & Park4--you rock!!!  

January 31, 2012 5:23 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

<wink> @ Carol

January 31, 2012 6:01 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PARK & MISS BLUE.............ditto what that chick CAROL wrote.................Yowzaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I will say, w/ my head hung down, that I voted for the community organizer ( not w/ any great passion or enthusiasm) & I regret it every day. My immediate family & I are so divided on politics that we really try & steer clear because we love each other and I hate fighting..............
 
Great posts today...................got me jazzed w/ the little kiddles....................
 
OT....................I am going into town on a SCHOOL night for an animal shelter fundraiser....................cocktails & beer at a bar & you can bring your dog ( we provide water & treats).........................I NEVER go into town on a weeknight. It is so exciting, I feel brash & young & could eat two hotdogs! mmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................
 
PARK.....................doesn't Vance Packard have that, "Hi, I'm Vance Packard, damned glad to meet to you," ring to it??????????????????

January 31, 2012 6:07 PM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

Park4, sorry, I misunderstood your "Self-Made Man."  I didn't take it in the wealth sense, I had thought of it as a significant improvement in the life of the person from where he or she began, not necessarily just a counting of assests.  If that is a major selling point of a president, I want out!  Material wealth isn't really wealth, in my opinion, but to each his own, I suppose.  Then again, I am a pinko commie university professor, so I am biased.  Also, before lots of folks here tout that "socialism" card, let's think about the socialist services here in the USA: national highway system, national defense (army, navy, etc., etc.), fire fighters, police, and, yes, medicare and medicaid.  I heard a senator sum it up nicely: "You got rich in business? Good for you, but your goods were transported on public roads, your employees were educated at public schools, and you have a safe buisiness climate because of the military, so you need to pay up."  You want free market?  Go to Mexico.  I live there 2-6 months a year and let me tell you, the rich prey upon the poor like leeches.

January 31, 2012 6:57 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

The GREAGTEST majority of Americans do NOT pay taxes my university professor friend (and I do mean that in all sincerity). They may have taxes withheld, but they receive those funds back (and then some) at the end of the tax year. There are VERY few (I don't have my figures handy right now; maybe Park?) who actually PAY into the income tax system.


Businesses pay more than what you might think for those roads etc. A lot of what you pay at the pump for fuel for transportation is actually TAX. Then you pay another TAX on top of that in the way of extra fees and licenses. You contribute funds for FICA etc. basically another TAX. What employees generally have deducted the businesses must match; a TAX. Businesses pay extra TAXES to localities just because they sell things in bottles. If you sell alcoholic beverages at the wholesale level you collect state and general TAXES, do all the reporting and disburse those funds (takes an extra employee just to track this stuff) for no remuneration. Every computer, desk, chair, truck ,  forklift, sales vehicle etc is taxed by the county/sate/city as property( not to mention the actual land) to pay for those schools....and the myriad of petty bureaucrats who monitor everything you do.


I pay up, down, sideways and every direction they can think of, so don't hand me that crap.


IF the Federal Government did not spend more than it earned it would be solvent. Do the math.

January 31, 2012 7:08 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Well all right. I can not be Absolute except in Vodka terms. I do believe I and many others get a little pixie dust spread on us from time to time and the luck she is STILL running good for me or going back to the Brazilian day I was born with my ass facing the moon. Who would want everything you do in the public eye? My greatest times have not been in the Cosmic Yearbook but under the bleachers. Life is High School on Steroids in many ways. I like to move around mysteriously and freely. Tequila Reserva is in my immediate future. Old two bit small potatoes actor/writers are expected to show up at rehearsals with a little alcohol on their breath. wouldn't wanna let em down huh Dean Moriarty?

January 31, 2012 7:35 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Oh! Petards.  It must
be time for a music break.  Are we having Big Fun now or what?

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xlgQhNj9Pk


 

January 31, 2012 7:45 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

 
 
 
 
 
hahahaha...paolos.
 Ok I'll shut up.
 
 
 
 

January 31, 2012 7:50 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Park ~ re: your 2:27  AMEN!

January 31, 2012 7:53 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Bitchin'. Blow Big Daddy Blow.

January 31, 2012 8:07 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian.
Pat Paulsen lives on and on and on.

January 31, 2012 8:19 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

TT~ You are my hero. Genius.
 
Here's my new favorite candidate for president...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS6J_XXVst0
 

January 31, 2012 8:25 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Capitalism offers incentives for individuals and corporations to strive to be the best at what they do. It promotes growth and prosperity on a number of levels. Under this system, I know when I've had a good financial year because I am paying more taxes. It's a win-win

Socialism offers the same rewards to non achievers as it does over achievers, which is a slippery slope toward mediocrity. All things being equal ('fair' is such a subjective concept).... It is water seeking its lowest level.

We are neither strictly one or the other..... Just like most places...

January 31, 2012 8:51 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

OH do I ever love that WOMAN!  Miss Blue you knock me out.  Well said, my friend, well said.  I could add nothing more.   Brilliant my dear.  You are good.  And a Republican, too.  What a package....

January 31, 2012 8:53 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

bebe:  so it's a hot time in the old town tonight eh?  A two hot dog hot time?  Whoa...I think I can feel the earth move, right here and now.  Have fun, and blessings on you for loving the little furballs the way you do. 

January 31, 2012 8:58 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

And yes, bebe, Vance Packard sure does sound like a sleazey wanna-buy-a-watch kind of guy.  I couldn't find the name of the book I was reading that New Years Eve night way long ago.  Maybe I had a really high fever and hallucinated it clear into 2012.  Weird stuff.....................Andy, thanks.  It means a lot when you say it. 

January 31, 2012 8:59 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Hi PeterLake.  Seen any great barns with odd rooflines of late? ;)

January 31, 2012 9:20 PM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

A Brigadier General; a Colonel.... One who holds a medal of Legion of Merit;or an individual that holds an award... for Presidential Unit Citation, a Purple Heart for Courage and Scrafice should preside as our Nations leader. Our President of the United States of America...after this war and the climb to the ladder that is what the next Presidential Title will claim...one is consistently helps the poor....a candidate..for sure...can fix the hole in the bottom of the boat...my Dad used to say.....
 .I can recall a time when my sister worked on Capital Hill back in the 1970's for Senator Dole, during Henry Kessingers debut...very few...., or a low percentage of the children of Congress, Senate, or the House served in the Vietnam War; Pittsburgh had many drafted off to War during this period..of time....and if we have a Department Defense ; we should also have a Department Of Peace...My sister wore a T-shirt that said, "A woman belongs in the house and the Senate!" quite Novel at the time...
 So, what i will try to explain, as it has been and always, we can not allow ourselves to mis-interpret or lack the knowledge of good decision making ideas with a democartic government...keeping the Constitution a document that is bonafide..and all to adhere the Constitution as law...  Just to note...when i was called a pigeons or dove .this story from a previous post,,,..My Dad ,use to say on his many State travels ; Colorado, " Ginger, I was only 8 or 9 years old; he would send me a States' postcard from every state in the United States..he sent me the state flower of Denver and say, Ginger, you are as beautiful as a Columbine...and today ,using my 1943 Webster Collegiate Dictionary, I found out in the dictionary, that Columbine means dove or pigeon..being eight it did not mean that .he said,..you  look like a columbine....beautiful ..;..I would claim that I really do not know what he is saying..or understood, when you eight years old it meant , "I look like a flower..one of those grey birds outside on the Telephone wire?  .and thought maybe that it meant good, but i was unsure..becasue I grew marigolds and they were not my favorite...easy to grow...but as i would collect the seeds my fingers turned orange and the green earth odor..was not anything to favor.....my Dad the horticulturist....used animal names in alot of his sentences...  See ya later, Alligator or After awhile, Crocadile..  People and life confusing....this story is trying to explain mis-intrepretation... is in a good way...an exception..with this story...
 As people sometimes, it not just a younger age, we misunderstand and we are slow..Just in 2002......remeber BP gas using infants comic cartoons to educate us at the gas pump for a class lesson and sweepstakes...about what? ARE Dumbness...Adults pumping gas and spending alot of money...and at the pump we are looking at children cartoons...even the game on the internet was not for adults but ...infants..that is how the "big world" perceives you and me...WHAT you might ask...but i see how we are really treated..sometimes Dumb or stupid if you want to use that word...Baby's...psychologically Education impact to get a message across..at the gas pump...who was the PR manager in this public relations campaign; How many recall the sutleness of this cartoon program at the BP gas station...in 2002?????I wrote in freeform....sorry if this is confusing ....but i am hitting the send bottom..
  I just want to say...sometimes I don't understand life variances and political policy decisions..our lawmakers should not be treated like royalty...that emphazsis...is like going back to Surfton Days...and slavery...we have to be very careful...allowing too  much power in the hands of the same people.and that is way we should keep working at balancing the nominations...in a more fair courtly way...and one way is too have more than two parties...avoiding power to fall into only one hand....it ....is not a good idea....and a danger..to the constituents or citizens..of America....leaders ....that only have self interest of wealth and  no idea to handle real problems: Hunger, Housing, occupations, healthcare, energy, heat,....and so forth...

January 31, 2012 9:20 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Miss Blue, I love it when those petards start rollin' rollin' rollin'.     I started, I stopped, I wagged my tongue, I bit my tongue, I cut, I copied, I pasted. In the end, the Senator's understanding of economics pretty much said it all.  Is it any wonder I fear for the future of our republic? 

January 31, 2012 9:26 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

Hazel--I hope you're keep warm and snuggy in the cold, cold temps I hear are surrounding you.  Brrrrrrrrr........stay under the duvet snuggled up with the cats!

January 31, 2012 9:38 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

PARK4 "The Status Seekers"

January 31, 2012 9:47 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

I smell a Cnote that ol Benny Franklin.

January 31, 2012 10:34 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PARK.................you can't beat a 191 lb. Great Dane being kissed & licked by a tiny chihauha or the pitbull who got down low to kiss his friend Chance. Chance fell out of a fast moving truck & they kept on going. He was brought to the shelter bleeding from his mouth & nose & cut up. He is healed & was adopted by a darling young couple & he seems to be the happiest little guy...................it was a lovely night. Wow, people have a social life in the evening. It blows my mind........................
 
 
CHEFD..................that sounds like a sexy read................a la  Jacqueline Susann.....................I love a dishy read........................

January 31, 2012 10:56 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

lotlotlotlot ~ I thought your opening salvos were aimed at me.  As they say in Rhode Island, I resemble that remark. 

January 31, 2012 11:08 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Boy, what spirited entries. .  I have heard that sometime back in our history,taxes on the ,er,upper brackets were 95%(or so, with very few deductions/loopholes)  .  .but I do remember our new school edition (Park? Boone)...and Edens x-way, part of the brand new Interstate-tristate 90 94...and stuff...we pretty much came from a place that does not exist in time or space anymore. A lot of us here in the village share some common memories,and they were good,if not all the same,still they were good.  .  So? How come such a small number of kids these days will share that same warm feeling in 50 years?....'jus sayin'

January 31, 2012 11:10 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

...Actually, I believe it is a faulty flux capacitor

January 31, 2012 11:43 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Harry Browne, the Libertarian who got my vote in '96 ended up in Franklin, TN before he died & was a champion in my opinion of individual liberty. "You can't give the government the power to do good without also giving it the power to do bad - in fact, to do anything it wants." Romney wins big in a winner take all state and things shift North. The game's afoot. Now Key West can get back to normal. Hardy Har Har Har.

January 31, 2012 11:47 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Aw. C'mon guys. 5 more George Washington's to the century mark. Rah rah Bull Moose Party!

January 31, 2012 11:54 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

A guy walks into a bar and orders a whiskey. "That will be $5," says the
barkeep. The guy pulls out a five spot.  The barkeep pulls the whiskey back and
says"We can't serve you here, this is a singles bar."
 
 

January 31, 2012 11:55 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Just doin' my part TT.

February 01, 2012 12:00 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

RY ~ If we stop spending now, in 50 years they will be able to burn the
notes that secure the debt we strapped them with and that should produce some
warmth.
Maybe even a conflagration across the nation.
 

February 01, 2012 12:00 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

I am an independent,but I could not resist....
 
 
 
 
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing ?" She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."
Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, " Welcome to the Republican party."

February 01, 2012 12:05 AM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Grassyass p- close but no banana mi amoeba and like Tarzan's last words- who greased the vine or Custer's- gentlemen let's don't take any prisoners- without further adieu the polls are closed....

February 01, 2012 12:07 AM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

MB- strong finish. Now sweet sleep. Gracie.

February 01, 2012 12:09 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

Did I hear someone say, "Moose!?"

Lively day in the Eye....now quiet on theSepia Train....hot cocoa and warm milk must be soothing ya'll to sleep....

Glad the Fla. voters squelched Newt a bit....he was getting on my last nerve.

G'night all!

February 01, 2012 12:33 AM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

I do believe this bleak glimps of the future may also be the result of the poor state of the global economy, the trillion dollar deficit, the historically high divorce rate, a couple generations of latchkey kids of single parent homes as well as homes where both parents are working just to make ends meet, the lack of good role models, the rise of corrupt politicians, the inability of the US to compete in a global market which has resulted in the loss of so many higher paying value added jobs to countries that do not have labor laws, employee benefits,... But do provide hazardous work environments....

I don't think that the blame for this state of affairs can be laid solely on the shoulders of the 'upper tax brackets"

And how much bigger is the federal government than it was back in the good old days?... Than it was just ten years ago?

Personally, I think that a major reason that fewer young folks will be able to share in the same warm and fuzziness that we did has something to do with the attitude that earning money and getting ahead is looked down upon by so many. It seems like it is easier to be a victim today than to be accountable and become part of the solution.

This, of course is me painting some generalizations with a broad brush......which has become very popular these days... Life is not, nor has it ever been fair. The only way to have a chance to succeed is to play the card you are dealt....and I do believe that long-term success can only be achieved and maintained by staying on the high road. Too many have strayed from that and taken short-cuts to get ahead.

If I were to choose one target to lay the blame for all that ails this country of ours, it would be corruption, which is probably, and sadly, our best example of biparticism politics .

My apologies for the rant...... I was overdue...

February 01, 2012 1:05 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Well said, my friend.  .  Wine de corked in the clubcar, and for a limited time, the coin-operated mirror will allow all who look at their own image to see what it's like to be what others see you as,only in two dimensions.

February 01, 2012 5:47 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

What is the deal with all this, "RANT"  Bullshit ???  Why does an empassioned dissertation have to be painted with a Black Brush, and call'd a "RANT ???"
 
I never see anybody but Weak Sisters and those who are Lite in The Loafers spewing that word, Rant ... And most of us have become so Tolerant of such crap, in order to be Politically Correct ....... that we end up using the feygeleh phrase ourselves ...
 
If anyone around here should not be mentioned in the same sentence with that word Rant, it is The Sage of Peterman Place, Peter Lake his very self !!!
 
I swear to you on a stack of old Nudists Rules ....... Tolerance is the absolute WORST thing that one can commit himself to ... It leads to Acceptance, then Norm, then Condoning, then Support, .......  Whats Next ??? Evil/Wrong becomes Mandatory ??? That seems to be the way things are going as more and more Islam creeps in ....... If we do not stop the creeping, seething cancer, now ... the last thought our Grandchildren have as they are being murdered, will be how much they hate us .......

February 01, 2012 8:53 AM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Thank you friend Ivan. I withdraw the last sentence of my previous opinion for my sake as well as my grandchildren. Be well.

February 01, 2012 10:31 AM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

BP gas "Make you feel better," campaign about spending money on Gasoline; I won two $25.00 gas gift cards...during the first reward program, collecting all the memory childlike flashcards;and played all sweepstakes extra points entry games; five gas filler-upper code add-ups points on the BP gas website..earns you "FREE GAS",then the next round they reduce the cash prize for full gas filler-uppers to $5 BUCKS and continue the incentive childlike reward games...2002-2006...you still can see the posters at the BP Gas station...with the comic childlike characters. Make our customers happy... ; > ) 3 .t be meaningfully challenged in a court of law, the courts agreed , but the National Secruity Laws (NSLs) and gag orders live on...and widespread violations of NSL rules exist...Senate Intelligence committee is actively working on a change...This issue and remembering that Lady Liberty was meant to, and forever as well as should, honor the inalienable individual rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness enumerated by our America Founders....When we choose our next President these issues of importance need to be factor into our vote...Happy Voting...is there a way to market a happier campaign..voting experience...besides buttons and T-shirts and coffee cups...? Freeform writing...

February 01, 2012 10:45 AM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

oops...It is wrong for Americans' free speech right to be bound by perpetual gagorders...that can not be meaningfully challenged in a court of law..correction to my last post*************************************************************************;our government collects hundreds of thousands,,,,100's of thousands...or is it 100,000's of one hundred thousands; just wish they get the numbers right..collects private information on people...because of the secrecy or the strict rules of the patriotact the American public cannot have meaningful debate on the effectiveness or wisdom of the clandestine sensitive practice of analysis of the public...hoping that senate intelligence guides us in the right direction...eliminated google and twitter freedom of speech ...would be a throwback into the dark ages...

February 01, 2012 12:44 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Miz Blue:  I thought about that after I clicked "send" and I knew it wasn't right, the party label, I'm not an R either, but an Independent in mind, spirit, and just about everything else.  But there you have it, and it's not the worst label, if labels there must be - not the worst this time around.  About that I am sure.  Again, well done my friend.  And I loved that joke.  Maybe we'll do grasshoppers and ants sometime soon...if we do, bring your shovel. <wink>

February 01, 2012 12:47 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

ChefDeb:  I don't think it was The Status Seekers either.  It was a little more school-ish than Vance Packard's stuff.  I lay in bed last night going through the alphabet, my way of coming up with a name that's out of my reach, but it didn't work, because I don't even know part of the name of the work.   But thank you.  That Packard book was published in the late sixities, so it could have been it - but it's not.  You're a pal for trying.  I'm making myself nuts over this.  

February 01, 2012 12:52 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Bebe:  so it was a wonderful evening, I'm so glad.  The sweet abused little things.  I'd like to put their owners/abusers in the stocks - or worse.  They are low lifes, no matter their "status"...I'm always sort of surprised when we go out at night to see there's others out there too, others who seem to be accustomed to "nightlife" -such as it is in this small town. 

February 01, 2012 12:55 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

IVAN:  You come blowing in like a welcome storm, and you say what I wish I'd said only better than I ever could.  I do remember your dislike of the word "rant."  I'm so glad you showed up.

February 01, 2012 12:59 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

PeterLake:  you don't harangue, or rant, or any of those things.  When you decide to enter a fray, what you say is considered and even in tone and well thought out.  You're one of my best friends for all kinds of reasons, your gentle nature and lack of hubris being just two  of them. But when you do decide to talk, you make sense, and believe me, people listen.  Never apologize.  You represent what is probably the best of all of us.   

February 01, 2012 1:10 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

  news flash...

Our 17 year
old daughter, a high school junior, has just informed us she has been selected
by her school,( Broadwater Academy, a recipient of some of that J Peterman School
Travel Contest money last year) to be a delegate in the upcoming Virginia Mock
General Assembly in Richmond.. Maybe those coming after us can and will make a
difference.



February 01, 2012 6:52 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Congratulations to Miss Blue Jr. newly appointed to the house of Sturgesses.

February 01, 2012 9:20 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

SAJ JOHNSON....................I understand where you are coming from because I used to be there idealogically. I belonged to what is still the most progressive, left education organization. I bought into the idea that so many people in America were victims. I taught in private schools for 17 years and in the past 6 years I have been in the public school system. I think unless you work in a government entitity such as a health department, welfare office and public school system ( just to name a few) you have no idea of the scams and complete abuse of the welfare system. It was NOT meant to be a way of life, but on a daily basis I see how it has become a way of life for generations of people. These people abuse the system on a daily basis; from having multiple children they cannot afford and expect the government to serve their every need. It is actually frightening to see young children being brought up w/ this mentality to begin a 3rd & 4th generation of leeches on the pitiful 50% who work hard, play by the rules, and contribute to their community on a daily basis. I am tired of going to baby showers for young women having their 2nd, 3rd, & 4th child w/ a different man. Of women who have a partner at home, but they won't marry because they would not get all the government goodies. These people have the newest phones, cars, and only voted in 2008 because Obama was black. It doesn't sound pretty, but I am tired of living w/ in my means, of buying a house that is old & needs tons of work because THAT is what we could afford. I was brought up w/ a strong work ethic, so many young people are NOT................and you & I are paying the price every day. I grew up in the midwest to a family of hardcore liberals and I still carry many of those values deep, but w/ the whole gov't out of control freebies I am saying, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! There are so many hard working people out there working hard to pay their bills & they would NEVER dream of getting the government to finance their life. These people on the edge are paying for lazy people to stay at home and get free everything. We are tired. We did not get a loan to purchase some ridiculous home beyond our means. We do not ask the government for free cell phone services and get free lunch & breakfast, free afterschool tutoring, free social services for our children because we are not equipped to parent or are too lazy to do it. Chidren having babies are killing this country. The toll on the education system is HUGE. Public education is pretty broken. When we moved down south and I encountered the southern academies for the first time my liberal sensibilities said, "These people are so racist." That is until I started teaching in the public school system. You have children w/ severe psychological problems, missing parents, grandparents trying to raise children & they are tired. Children born to a culture of people who have no intention of raising them. It is horrifying, sad, and I see no end.
 
I want welfare to be there for the people who have fallen on hard times and have to seek it out. That is why it was started, NOT to be a lifestyle for generations of people who seem every year to increase the demands of what they expect. People who get money back and hard working people pay & pay & pay. Now a large majority of us are speaking out and we run the gamut from very conservative to liberals who see that yes, there is a very large problem. It is so entrenched that I don't know if it can ever be fixed. A whole lot of people who have done a whole lot of nothing for a long time will be shell shocked that they will for once be expected to take care of themselves. A novel idea. There is help galore for the do nothings, but almost none for the clinging to middle class existence. The VERY people who pay for the 47%. It is perverse. And it has to stop.
 
I also have a husband who is a professor and is squarely in your corner idealogically and for the life of me I don't see how he doesn't get furious.
 
I think PARK, MISS BLUE, and PL spoke eloquently for what I believe. What stuns me is how Obama has lied, been NOT transparent, screwed up our healthcare because he is in the pocket of the insurance companies and turned out to be the least progressive president in my lifetime. He seems to think not deeply about big decisions, has no backbone & how I could have thought him an eloquent speaker still boggles. He is a squishy jellyfish who bows to whomever gives him money. There are genuine progressives out there, he is NOT one. I have blathered on enough.

February 01, 2012 9:20 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

Amen PAOLOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honor Roll


As far as getting 'to see how the candidates fare under pressure', the pressures of the primaries...

-Peter Lake

Jan. 31, 2012 1:26 AM

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