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Racing Past the Constitution

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The Fifth of Ten

April 27, 2009

The Kefauver Committee and McCarthy hearings made it part of our national vocabulary.

These familiar words are the bedrock of our legal system.

"On advice of counsel, I plead the Fifth.”

The Fifth Amendment is longer than other amendments covered in our look at the Ten Amendments, added to the Constitution through the Bill of Rights, but it’s worth examining.

Even on a Monday.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Simply put, The Fifth Amendment is the legal means for a citizen to say to their tormentor, "Get off my back and get your evidence somewhere other than from my own lips."

It was created in reaction to the excesses of the English Court of Star Chamber. It was there, until the mid 1600s, that prosecutors did not bear the burden of proving a case, and that sufficient "proof" came from browbeating confessions out of the accused.

And our Founding Fathers wanted to make sure it wouldn't happen here.

Today, the U.S. Supreme Court has expanded the Fifth Amendment to also apply to criminal and pretrial proceedings in criminal matters, including police-station interrogations by invoking the Miranda Law.

Recently, a federal judge upheld the right of Pulitzer Prize-winning Detroit newspaper reporter David Ashenfelter to raise the Fifth Amendment and refuse to reveal his sources in a story about a failed terrorism prosecution.

But it was touch and go for a while.

Some think this Amendment is outdated and that it interferes with legitimate investigations.

Thomas Jefferson said:

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. “

Even if it means the bad guys win, once in a while.

How do you plead?

J. Peterman


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Under Construction: Design Stuff & Member Commenting - Changes Soon.
34 Members’ Opinions
April 27, 2009 1:52 AM
First-com bethyo2000 said...

I think that anytime something doesn't go the way a person wants it to, that there is an immediate urge to change what they felt the obstacle was that prevented it from going their way.  People tend to also devalue something that they haven't had to use or feel only certain elements of society use.  People who want to do away with bits and pieces of the constitution use the excuse that we don't need it this or that way anymore, it's outdated.  People don't understand and would give their rights away, have given their rights away, without blinking.  They just don't see it happening to them.  They don't see themselves having to be in front of a committee or on trial for something.  They don't see themselves being arrested, having their world turned upside down and inside out and needing protection from the "good guys."  The fifth amendment was put in place for our own protection.  Yeah, nothing is perfect, sometimes the "bad guys" win. But don't fool yourself into thinking that browbeating or torturing people for confessions could never happen in this country.  It could turn on a dime.

April 27, 2009 4:54 AM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

I once had a disagreement with a punk in a park that would have been resolved on the spot had he not had a friend nearby that I hadn't planned on.

My wife and a daughter were on hand so any of the normal amenities, a knee in the groin, head butt, etc. were pretty much out of play.

It didn't turn out too badly anyway but it stayed with me and one dark evening a few years later I saw one of the guys in a bar where I had stopped to grab a can of Coke on the way home from duck hunting.

He held the floor with a story and  as I made my way out, unrecognized,I did a bit of a "what a load of BS" eye roll sure to be seen by his audience.

It was impossible to guess what he knew about the lay of the land in those parts but it was like home to me.

I scurried into my truck and laid an uncharacteristic patch burning out of there. Slowing toward the edge of town, it was possible to see him hurry out to follow... alone. Perfect.

It is not unreasonable to suppose that having seen my outfit, he might have guessed firearms would be near to hand. Right, but they didn't figure into this.

I turned off the lights and pulled into a rural sportsman's wayside. Just parking. No water, no facilities, no lights and it was blacker than the inside of your hat.

Apart from the just me and him aspect which appealed to me, there was no real plan.

My opinion of the guy being fairly stupid was not placed in doubt when the bonehead flew past the entrance despite my having left the door open with bright lights glowing inside.

I thought it might be kind of nice for him to reckon that I had bolted in terror or something.

Squealing brakes  suggested that he had caught his error. He had and burned in at high speed before stopping and jumping out... armed I guess you could say.

His "hatchet" had that Abe Lincoln rail splitter's axe look to it. Dear me. Now what?

His headlamps did not do a whole lot to dispel the gloom of the place and from the position under my truck in some fairly tall grass, it was easy to follow his steps.

He provided an obscenity laced running commentary that entailed frequent use of the expression "chickenshit,"  while offering his thoughts on what a blaze the truck would make after he got the good stuff out of it.

Two things: The leverage from beneath a truck is not exactly optimal when trying to close the door quickly. And, the sound of a heavy Dodge Club Cab door closing on a human head is a little different than you might think.

Safe to say that the starch was pretty well out of his collar after that but he was the last to know. Hurling his short handled axe in the direction he was sure that I must have been, it sailed through his own windshield. A bonus. The fact that the windshield wipers flailed for a few seconds in space? Priceless.

There was not a whole lot of clear space and the woods were thick. There was, in fact, only one really unsafe place to go and heading toward it, it is almost impossible to explain what a pleasant thing it was to hear him coming from behind.

I executed a pretty convincing fall and roll just before a drop-off of about ten feet. He didn't.

The ground at the bottom, where I had often had a poke at woodcock, was boggy and soft, Imagine my surprise when, having got a light from the truck, I noticed that sometime before he landed there, somebody had dumped a load, maybe two, of tree limbs.

All of this to set the stage for a visit with the county police. Can't think how the found me but they did- at work but at shift's end.

Creates a certain buzz, something like that.

I don't know much but I know about keeping silent and it's harder than it sounds.

" Young fella," they said, "Was in the hospital. Been there for days and in that he is getting fluids out of one tube and pissing out of another," they supposed he was going to be there a while longer.

First they were chummy, nice men just trying to clear up this little misunderstanding. Then, one of them got impatient or pretended to. Then, and I'm pretty sure about this part, they both got sick and tired of me "Jackin' us around."

I had, by the way, said nothing beyond agreeing that I was who they thought that I was. Not a peep. Not even when they referred to his weapon as a "camper's trimmer" or some such a thing.

After an hour, they stopped offering refreshments. After two, they wondered if I wanted to call a lawyer. I didn't. After three, one of them inadvertently tipped over my chair. I was in it at the time.

They had nothing and they knew it and they knew I knew it. I wasn't cocky or disrespectful and, looking back, that seemed to get their goats a little more.

Am I the only one who wonders why they are made, if there are made, to wear those incredibly unflattering fitted shirts? It didn't seem like the best time to bring that up.

It was past suppertime for me and judging from the sound of the big guy's gut, for him as well. Things began to wind down but not without a few desperate seeming attempts to get something, anything out of me. I started to wonder if they didn't have a bet.

The one thing that gave them some enjoyment was seeing that I was unsteady on the way out. We shook hands and it was over unless you count that they had me followed to the county line.

All in all, it was an extremely unpleasant experience and I can't even begin to imagine how much worse it would have been had you, say, really been up to something. 

It probably hadn't hurt that they had likely seen in the "victim" what I had.

April 27, 2009 7:57 AM
Com-100Com-300First-comHr-1 MACKDADDY1 said...

What's cookin friends?  Sorry I missed yesterday's "Grillin' topic".  I was busy hosting a barbecue.  Our annual TGIS (Thank God It's Summer) cookout.  Bounce house, basketball, football, cornhole, electric kids car race etc...  Had a blast!  After my recent brush with the grim reaper, am very blessed to have been there to enjoy.  Todays' subject...I need to ponder for awhile. Have a great dday everyone!!!!

April 27, 2009 8:13 AM
1198 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Doc Nolan said...

The Fifth Amendment: what a depressing topic.  Just reading the wording brings dozens of images of folks (1) caught in eleborate circumventions of double jeopardy (including civil v. criminal, multiple charges for the same offense, etc.); (2) held in extra-judicial detention out of U.S. territory to allow 'special techniques' to be used on them; (3) trapped for years without benefit of trial; (4) losing their homes and businesses to local politicians intent on 'redeveloping' the neighborhood -- for their wealthy friends in the commercial real estate industry -- in exchange for 'campaign contributions'....  It all makes me want to either listen to Mahler's Fifth, or to buy a fifth of whiskey and nurse the bottle until it's gone....

April 27, 2009 9:07 AM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

Some of you who publish your work or plan to, might find this of interest:

That, and I'm almost wishing that a couple of months ago, when my car, house and garage keys along with the car locker deal and a wonderful little time-worn pewter lapstrake canoe complete with tiny paddles ( a gift from one of our daughters), went missing, that I had taken a moment to whine about it.

Had I done so, you could all now take a nano-second to engage in a micro celebration with me over their discovery last night in the bottom of a lower desk drawer where it could be imagined that they fell with a noticeable but unnoticed noise.

Found (and what isn't?) while looking for something else.

Off to the races~

April 27, 2009 12:12 PM
Com-100First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 jmr said...

One can certainly argue in Guatanamo we violated some Fifth Amendment rights. Where we deemed certain people not entitled to them. Wonder what Jefferson would have thought.

April 27, 2009 2:13 PM
Com-100Com-300First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Gia said...

Judging by the turnout, it looks like we’re all exercising our right to remain silent.

April 27, 2009 2:24 PM
1521 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 Shandonista said...

Two thoughts: 
1.  I call first dibs on Stoney for my team, and
2.  There doesn't seem to be anything outdated or old-fashioned about any amendment we've considered thus far, and I seriously doubt any of the rest will be proven so.

April 27, 2009 2:25 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Not so fast.........  Any rule, policy, law or provision that has been created to prevent the reoccurrence of any particular past abuse is bound to serve two masters.

While being created to protect the rights of the innocent from abuse, they must also, by the necessity that justice be kept sightless, be available to protect the rights of the yet unproven guilty. Laws, provisions, and guarantees are well intended attempts to provide as close to a purely black and white solution to problems that will always be in the midst of clouds that are grey

Standing alone and unchallenged, the Fifth Amendment is a valiant attempt to protect the vast majority of us (he says optimistically) from any potential abuse of power. I know that I'm not smart enough to propose anything that provides such wide-range protection that wouldn't also provide a safe haven for the guilty. I don't believe anyone is capable of such a feat as long as our imperfect world is populated by a race of beings that are as different from as other as the snow flakes from last winter.

If we were capable of developing such solutions that would not only withstand the test of time but also be administrateable, I think we would have done so a long, long time ago and have universal healthcare system to boot. This would probable result in a surplus of lawyers which goes to show that there are no silver bullets. The number of Constitutional Amendments would also increase exponentially.

The Fifth Amendment is meant to protect everyone equally no matter which side of the law they inhabit. It's a black and white, true or false, yes or no solution to problems that sometimes fall within the many shades of grey that is life. I think it that it was Isaac Asimov that wrote "real boats rock". It's biggest danger and threat I think, comes from those who seek to include the grey areas into its strict interpretation. When that happens and new precedence's are established, it becomes so easy to throw the baby out with the bath water without realizing it.

I do believe I may have fallen into cliché hell with my comments today. For that I apologize.99

On that note I'm zippin' it up, not saying anudder ting ‘till my lawyers get here so you can just put away those garden shears Copper, ‘cuz I know me rights. I won't say a word now, nuthin' but silence..... total, absolute silence. Let's see howya like dem apples. Mums the woid and I'll tell the judge dat too! Ya hear me, I ain't talkin', I'm takin' the 5th ‘cuz ya ain't got nuttin on me............ er..ah ..excuse me counselor..... did I hear you say sumptin' about a deal? Witness, there wuzn't any witnesses..... well, let's see now, whatcha got in mind?

Peace out.......

April 27, 2009 2:26 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

sorry, my Cockatiel typed the 99...

April 27, 2009 2:39 PM
1521 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 Shandonista said...

Not so fast, eh?  I like when you boss me around....  I agree that nothing is perfect.  The US legal system certainly isn't and some of our laws do protect the naughty.  But, and it's a big but, it seems like that is the price we must pay to ensure that the gubmint doesn't abuse the innocent. 
Which is more desirable?  Making certain the innocent are kept free or that all criminals are locked up?  I tend to lean toward the former, even though I have been known to espouse some fairly extreme views of how the guilty (of certain crimes) should be punished.

April 27, 2009 2:48 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Shandonista, I like how you think.  I could have avoided a lot of typos and the need for nourishment and restroom breaks had I boiled it down the way you did.  I agree with you logic.

April 27, 2009 3:07 PM
800 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Michael said...

This may be the main reason why the U.S. is sometimes called "The Great Experiment."  The sheer fact that we protect the rights of everyone, or we're supposed to protect the rights of everyone, no matter who they are is a very difficult concept to swallow.  It is in human nature to sympathize and side with those who have been wronged and to wish for swift and painful vengence upon those who have done the wronging. 
In our dogged attempts to make sure every "i" is crossed and "t" is dotted, to make sure that there is no question of fairness, we ideally stand as a great example to the world.  True, it often doesn't work out like that, and it sickens me when someone gets off on a technicality, but I have to say that the U.S. court system has the potential to be ideal.
I just consider it to be a work in process.

more on the honor roll
April 27, 2009 3:55 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Coyotemike, You hit the nail on the head.  It is and will always be a work-in-process because everyday new twists, turns and wrinkles crop up. With the rapid introduction of heretofore unimaginal new technologies and rapid globalization which have laid such an array of new and oh so diverse issues, the challenge of remaining true to the original ideals is daunting.
 OK, now I need some coffee and really scary fiction to get my mind off of the real issues. I've also got to try to put my vacuum cleaner back together without having too many extra parts left over. Peace out..

April 27, 2009 4:07 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

Funny, many have gotten off on technicalities but not much is said about those behind bars or beneath the sod because of them.

When you come right down to it, isn't everything someone's technicality?

April 27, 2009 6:12 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

This topic may lead me to revisit the futuristic movie "Minority Report". The theme/plot of the movie centers on three prescient humans who due to an experiment gone awry, are able to predict murders before the occur while they live their entire lives suspended in some kind of liquid. There is a special police force empowered to use this information and make arrests before the crime has been committed. The perpetrators are placed and maintained in a form of suspension forever even though there are no actual victims. 

Sometimes I think I might fit better back in the days of 1800's Deadwood, especially if it is sepia toned. Less complicated don'tcha know...... but lawless.


Well the vacuum cleaner won today's battle and is now on an all expense paid vacation in the repair shop....... but I live to fight another day!

April 27, 2009 6:28 PM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

We didn't violate Fifth Amendment rights at Guantanamo Bay. People who believe this need to reread the amendment carefully. Whether we violated international law or did something utterly immoral---as I believe we did---is another question.
I have advocated some degree of cultural norming for the amendments, but if I were an editor I would write "stet" in the margins beside the Fifth Amendement. This is because general notions of ethical behavior have nothing to do now, in current times, with ethics within the legal profession. The legal profession has no interest in truth whatsoever. The normative assumptions taught now in law school have to do with what makes a good argument and what can sow reasonable doubt suspicions. I have acted as a expert witness for several malpractice defenses, and I just won't do it anymore, as the prosecuting attorney's approach to you in inherently adversarial, inherently pugilistic, and inherently doesn't give a flying faffola about truth. Try to explain to the jury in terms they'll understand what the truth of the matter is, and why the doctor being charged did practice within standard of care, and the prosecuting attorney will shout "OBJECTION.....narrative."
Since the approach to me on the witness stand was so brutarian (the cross-examining SOB could have had me convinced that my name was "Fred" after not many more minutes). yes, we absolutely must give the accused the right to seal their own lips.
In the same way that I hate medical shows (the first episode of "House" i ever saw was during a layover in Seoul, and I honestly thought it was meant as a comedy because the medical reasoning was such utterbunkum as to make me apoplectic with guffawing), I hate the proliferation of legal and crime shows, especially the forensic ones. I hate watching that bitch Calli Duquesne on CSI;Miami berate suspect after suspect in what constitutes a kind of abuse or torture, caring not for innocence or guilt, but for who she can humiliate the most and browbeat them into a confession.
I am in the process of helping a cousin who is a convicted felon and genuinely repentant who has been abandoned because of his stigmatization by his parents and by his uncles and aunts. In hearing the excoriating and excruciating things that he went through, all alone and unsupported, and hearing how in my view the punishment truly did not fit the crime, I feel like lashing out and asking no one in particular but everyone in general, Did the Fifth Amendment work for my cousin? It did not!
If I had the power to do it, I would enjoin persons in all court sessions, including the accused, the attorneys, the jury, the judge and the audience to recite in unison, like a prayer, the Fifth Amendment, to hold it out as a brass ring for which all should reach in the proceeding to follow.

April 27, 2009 6:33 PM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

Peter Lake: It is way cool that you were craving coffee at 3:55 pm. Man after me own heart.

April 27, 2009 6:35 PM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

Olivia: Several days ago you gave me your e-mail address, but in backwards scrounging, I cannot find it. Could you please give it to me again? I just have a question---nothing weird I promise---it's not germane to the discussion here.

April 27, 2009 6:57 PM
3905 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 cuukoo1 said...

you don't need the fifth if you take the bullet with you to the other side.  now if your giving the bullets, that's the point.  you may have a reason, but give it to your attorney.
i'm sticking to that!

April 27, 2009 7:38 PM
M 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Penn said...

I plead the fifth only be used in the noblest of situations.
Am I a dreamer?
There is no need to plead the fifth on that point.

April 27, 2009 8:27 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Kindlee said...

A thoroughly disturbing thought, that Pre-Crime Unit in the "Minority Report"...I truly hope we never come to that in our society...
Instead of coffee and scary fiction, I believe tonight I'll be reading a little bit more of Lord Peter Wimsey..."Why, if everybody came forward and told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth straight out, we (lawyers) should all retire..."

April 27, 2009 9:01 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoHr-1 unhinged said...

Oh hell, what do I care about the fifth tonight, no I really do sometimes, but just bought a new to me car of the German variety.  Varietly I will take the fifth, a quattro but not, has a wooden dash, real leather.  I will come down some time tomorrow when I realize what I will pay, but someone paid more the first two years.  Calls for some Moxie Fruovous.

April 27, 2009 9:39 PM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

I am obsessed with German roadsters. Tell me all about so i can FEEL LUST!!!! Strongly consider getting an extended warranty if your lease term exceeds the warranty duration. Ragtop? Straightdrive? How does it corner?
I know BMWs and Porsches inside and out; teach me about Audis, I might want one someday.

April 27, 2009 9:54 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoHr-1 unhinged said...

Swaim, a mere VW, but built on the same line as the A6 wagon, a quattro, a wagon and comfortable as all hell.  I didnt even start adjusting the seat.  We will see how it goes next trip into the adirondacks.  I just drive the damn things, this one is a little expensive for my blood because I drive so much (30-40K a year).  Next year the wife gets an Audi if she so desires.  She didnt like my friends BMW I series convertable.  Cars are funny things.  I just happy I dont have to drive a Scion XB much longer, though I cant say a bad thing about that car.

April 27, 2009 10:12 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoHr-1 unhinged said...

Laughing my first car was a Mercedes.  Where do you go from there?  It had issues but got me around most of the time.  It was a 65-68 or 9 200D which had the speedometer going up the center of the dash changing color.  My dad had had it, retired it and I ended up with it.  There was a little circle in front of the main acedemic building where I went to school.  I got so I could go around the circle at around 45.  He came to visit and the first thing he did was see how fast he could take the benz around the circle.  A sick group we are.  He recently announce he wanted a new car, maybe a honda.  Just to drive over to the drugstore in.  I wont be surprised.

April 27, 2009 10:15 PM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

In my view, VWs are terribly underappreciated. They're really well-engineered, durable, visually appealing. Personally I like their suspension much more than Porsche's.They're not nearly as absurdly finicky as some of their Deutschland relatives.

April 27, 2009 10:27 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoHr-1 unhinged said...

Mark, we should be engaging Mr. Trask here.  I defer most questions of the car to him, I only drive them.  A family, friends of our family, could afford any car they wanted and as many as they wanted.  They lived at the top of the hill in a compound and drove mostly Plymouth K cars.  Tim, the patriarch of the family always threatened to buy a Mercedes or BMW, Becky, his wife advised against it.  There was a Plymouth dealer down the hill.  "Tim, you get a mercedes down the hill who is ever going to work on it and get it back up?"  The plymouths continued to be the family car.
I have had VW's before and can assure you they are finicky, this one is a leap of faith, but one hell of a bargain too.

April 27, 2009 11:16 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

The Bill of Rights, and The United States Constitution, are for American Citizens, and for American Citizens alone ....... NOT for anybody who just happens to be on U.S. Soil, for ANY reason ... Citizens ... of The United States ... Who were/are actually BORN here (not in Kenya) .......
We need to STOP, interpreting the Constitution and the Bill of Rights ... Interpretation means, Personal Opinion, and we have no more right to an opinion about what the Founding Fathers wrote down in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights than we do about the Words of Sacred Scripture ...  We are supposed to UNDER STAND the words, and enforce them, according to strict construction, without worrying about weak-sister crap like Political Correctitude ... If we do not stop this Liberal Interpretive Crapola, Right Now ... it will not be long before this country is being divided up between the Arabs and the Chinese, and B.Hussein will become the Hood Ornament for a Puppet-Government, like the one created by the Egyptians and later the Romans ...   We must all realize, that if this country falls ... THERE IS NO ONE ... who can come and save us .......
And while you're busy reading the Amendments, read and understand the 10th.  .......

April 27, 2009 11:52 PM
39steps3 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Olivia said...

Mark: Nothing weird? I'm disappointed!
Talk to me...
I wish I had had this before I addressed the UALR Law School graduating class today. Might've helped me focus, although I went over my time anyway. You've all impressed the hell outa this lady. I wrote the Student Handbook for my RT Program, a Constitution of sorts, back in '88, and I've had to revise it almost every year to keep pace with the monkey business students can get up to. I have a lot of respect for the prescience of our Founding Dudes. One thing I know-you have to be consistent, and sometimes that means the bad guys get away with stuff. It comes with the whole fairness thing.
Mark, I know 'justice' is not about truth. Our 'justice' system is mostly smartasses playing gotcha. We're lucky we have the rules to hem them in a bit. See what happens when you obliterate parameters such as the Glass-Steagall Act? Hell and handbaskets come to mind.
Now, for fun, driving don't get no better than Minnie, my leetle checkerboard friend. I positively enrage the sheep, which is so satisfying. I zip. I zig. I go roundja. Minis rule, and that's just how it is...
Shandonista-we should hang out...


April 28, 2009 1:12 PM
800 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Michael said...

Jalopkin: I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you on many levels. Your baiting about the president, I am going to ignore because it is a non-issue.

However, your statement that we need to stop interpreting the Constitution, that it is not a living document, I cannot ignore. New situations come up every day that the Founding Fathers never dreamed would arise. Between the internet, new technologies, new forms of international relations, we have to constantly try to interpret just what the Constitution means in those instances. This is why the Supreme Court exists: to determine if new laws are Constitutional by interpreting what the document says and how it should be applied to new situations.

April 28, 2009 1:42 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

Act II  Scene 7 ... Jaques speaks ..............

April 28, 2009 8:44 PM
800 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Michael said...

Jalopkin: I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you on many levels. Your baiting about the president, I am going to ignore because it is a non-issue.

However, your statement that we need to stop interpreting the Constitution, that it is not a living document, I cannot ignore. New situations come up every day that the Founding Fathers never dreamed would arise. Between the internet, new technologies, new forms of international relations, we have to constantly try to interpret just what the Constitution means in those instances. This is why the Supreme Court exists: to determine if new laws are Constitutional by interpreting what the document says and how it should be applied to new situations.

Prime Web

The Kefauver Committee and Organized Crime

The Kefauver Committee and Organized Crime Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Constitution of the United States

Constitution of the United States Take a look at an interesting article we found.

The Founding Fathers

The Founding Fathers Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Honor Roll

This may be the main reason why the U.S. is sometimes called "The Great Experiment."  The sh...


Apr. 27, 2009 3:07 PM

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What comes closest to your opinion of our legal system?

  • Not perfect, but working Not perfect, but working 48%
  • Beats all others Beats all others 40%
  • Inequitable Inequitable 8%
  • You tell us You tell us 4%

Yesterday's Discussion

Time to start dusting off those outdoor grills and make this year your most thrilling grilling season ever.


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