Subscribe to The Eye
(Daily Updates)

Delivered by FeedBurner

    Follow-twitter     Join-facebook

About Us

 

We like to think of Peterman’s Eye as an old fashioned interactive community newspaper (if there is such a thing) focused on travel and curiosities. Talk with us about today’s post. Tell us about the places you’ve been. Or take a trip using J. Peterman’s exclusive travel services (coming soon). Read more...



Photo Contest Entries

Photo Contest Entry from jkaiser08

Submitted by:
jkaiser08
03/11/14

Photo Contest Entry from cganeku

Submitted by:
cganeku
04/15/14

Photo Contest Entry from raphana1

Submitted by:
raphana1
03/30/14

Photo Contest Entry from ttaylor2u

Submitted by:
ttaylor2u
03/08/14

Photo Contest Entry from plander

Submitted by:
plander
03/09/14



The Sticklers

December 09, 2011

Correcting complete strangers in public.

Sending back an e-mail with red type pointing out mistakes.

Acting like they seriously can't understand what you wrote because you made one spelling mistake.

According to an article I read that incidentally confused its with it’s, they're more obsessive than ever.

True, there have always been pedants, but they've morphed into an entire new subculture.

Known as obsessive grammarians, English majors, grammar fascists and buzzkills, the bottom line is that they're protecting the god of grammar from the rest of the populace and making life miserable for those that (who?) try but don’t always succeed.

Before it had grown into an all out movement, even Churchill objected:

He was editing a proof of one of his books and noticed that an editor had butchered a sentence to ensure that it would not end in a preposition.

He is supposed to have scribbled in the margin:

"This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."

But as annoying as some obsessives get, there is the extreme, but growing movement, on the other side that thinks grammatical correction is nothing less than a government conspiracy to control people’s minds.

“It is completely off the wall,” said Patricia T. O’Conner, quoted in The New York Times, and the author of several books on grammar, including Woe Is I.” 

So what is it really all about?

Is it a genuine desire to preserve the sanctity of the English language?

Or is it easier to attack flaws in others than addressing flaws in yourself?

One thing I'm never stuck for...

Or...should I say, one thing for which I'm never stuck:

Cogent comments by our villagers.

J. Peterman

 

   Print
| More

 

Under Construction: Design Stuff & Member Commenting - Changes Soon.
129 Members’ Opinions
December 09, 2011 12:05 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

Live!

Avoid Sticklers.

December 09, 2011 1:18 AM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

There was a rumbling in a small reservoir deep in my cerebrum and a gate valve was opened. It wasn’t a gush but more like a dribble as the impressions trickled from my brain and the droplets of verbalization rolled across my shoulders and down my arms then to my fingertips where my busy little digits pressed the keys randomly spilling out a little rambling ode full of errors- me as an incomplete sentence with a dangling participle...Buzzkills are negative energy incarnate.

December 09, 2011 1:31 AM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

my ama dogface to the banana patch...?

December 09, 2011 1:34 AM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

I feel like an actor making cameo appearances lately. Popping in and out throwing words around just to see where they splatter. Hope no one got splashed...the strain may never come out.

Was any of that correct...?

December 09, 2011 1:53 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Correctitude,Dude

December 09, 2011 2:42 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

WATCHIT .......

December 09, 2011 2:50 AM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

Ivan,

That must be your "Jesus wept" entry...it's the shortest verse I've seen you post.

December 09, 2011 4:18 AM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

KC, I so agree with you there :)

Apparently these grammar sticklers are known variably as grammar nazis, grammar whores, grammar trolls, grammar snobs .... they must be terribly busy with the text and teenage language of today

The only strangers I have dared to correct are those to whom I bravely confront, "Excuse me, you're cutting queue"

December 09, 2011 5:40 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

SPRING..................................Good morning! I agree, I just would not dream of correcting someone unless they specifically asked. It is rude & presumptuous................
 
Morning gentlemen, you all are in fine form this morning.
 
IVAN.................very pithy sir!
 
TT...................one day I was being a real pain..............just an unpleasant human & my husband said the perfect name for my band would be Buzzkill....................I had to agree & now it is our go to band name............
 
Have a loverly day all......................it's FRIIIIIIIIIDAYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

December 09, 2011 6:25 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Bore da! Sorry, I've been missing my Nos da - not to well, so I fall off my perch before then and retreat under the duvet.
Correcting strangers - Once wallking up our local high street, some children peeled off their ice lolly wrappers and dropped them on the pavement. I'd driven through town at 5.30 AM a few days previously and seen Ivan the street  sweeper making out town look nice for a new day. I did speak nicely to the children and point out a nearby litter bin, but wow! did I get some abuse from the parents.

December 09, 2011 6:30 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

HAZEL....................You attracted the wrath of the worst of the worst.................idjit parents. Of course their loverly darlings were throwing their wrappers on the ground & who were YOU to point that out?????????????? Tis' depressing & makes you appreciate the parents w/ common sense & a sense of community. I would love to hang out in your tiny village instead of testing the kiddles today...................oh well, a girl can dream....................

December 09, 2011 7:06 AM
10photoviewsFirst-comFirst-photoHr-1 digger5x5 said...

Sorry, but I'm a compulsive editor -- of others' work, obviously, not my own.  However, I hope I would not be the troll, nazi, whore or buzzkill, etc., that (that/who/which is my favorite nitpick) would provide criticism without being asked.  An employee once told me he was tired of his drafts coming back to him "covered in blood" from my red pen.  He did learn to simplify and vastly improve his writing as a result, however. But in so far as emails and forums such as this are concerned, "it's the thought what counts." It just so happens that peterman's eye community members are quite the self-editing group, which is very pleasing to see.

December 09, 2011 7:24 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Lynn830 said...

My mother taught English at Michigan State University and in the summer when I was between seventh and eighth grade, we spent part of each day going through her college English grammar book.  I also had two fine teachers in high school who stressed grammar and spelling.  My daughter, a newly minted B.A., tells me that grammar is no longer taught in high schools.  I can overlook an error or three, but all too often I see a multitude of lousy grammar or confusion of homophones: two, to and too confused, their, there and they're confused, etc.  I have seen writing with dozens of errors.  There is a line once crossed where the errors smother the message.  It is a pity that the educators have decided that grammar (which is hard work to teach and learn) is no longer stylish, much as phonetics which is also hard work to teach and learn periodically becomes unstylish and they again contribute to the general illiteracy.

December 09, 2011 7:26 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Lynn830 said...

Oh yes, Hazel, good for you!  The parents, barbarians themselves, are raising little barbarians.  The phrase that comes to mind regarding the parents is "ego run riot." 

December 09, 2011 7:38 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Although I always got good grades, I never really understood grammar until I took Latin and then I had one ah ha! moment after another.

As an employer forced to stand in one spot (in front of the stove) I did in fact correct grammar, language, etc. I know it was obnoxious but I did have various people thank me later. You can only hear "So didn't I" so many times, or "She came over and stood the night, I knew I seen her." I didn't do it the first 10 times.

Otherwise I hold my tongue while my inner self gasps and shakes her head. Except when children run in the supermarket. I look them in the eye and say "But you know theres no running in the supermarket, don't you?" and they stop.

December 09, 2011 7:43 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

I am absobloomin' delighted to get FB messages from my far-flung family, howerver mis-spelled and ungrammatical.  Especially from the youngsters. I do, however, press "send" before properly checking that wot I have writ and get very cross about some silly spelling error. Even a worthy broadsheet English newspaper was nicknamed the Gruniad, as it had so many typos.
I did ask VeraM recently about a word she had coined - frustraged ..... thought it was brilliant and asked permission to borrow it. Sometimes, too fast or too fat fingers can produce interesting results.

December 09, 2011 8:14 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Hazel ~ I do hope you're feeling much better.

December 09, 2011 8:14 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Hazel ~  Good Morning and I do hope you're feeling much better.

December 09, 2011 8:23 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Looks like I stuttered, but the sentiment is there. I believe it to be so rude to correct others' grammar, spelling, etc. unless they're your children and you're in the 'teach them' mode.  We've had a couple of people here, fortunately they've left, who go on and on about this to the point where I would read over and over what I've written so that I wouldn't be admonished at the least and ridiculed at the worst.  When I was young I had an aunt who was in the habit of correcting people all the time.  I, therefore, thought that she wanted to be corrected as well.  And, so, shen she mispronounced a word, which was often, I would quietly tell her.  My mother, while acknowledging that my aunt was being rude, asked me not to do it since she (my aunt) was feeling very self-conscious about her speech then.  I felt awful and of course stopped immediately.   Now, being a person with limited hearing, I sometimes have to rely on the written word and so don't hear the correct pronounciation.  It would be mortifying if a stranger were to correct me in public and this, Mr. P's site, is a public forum.   By the way -- that's a wonderful word:  frustraged .... now, if only I can remember how to spell it.

December 09, 2011 8:31 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Thanks Andy~ You know how it is - feel better in the morning and need a nap by the afternoon.

December 09, 2011 8:37 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

HAZEL--glad you are feeling a little better! Now what shall we do with JAXZ who needs to get better as well!

December 09, 2011 9:17 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

ChefDeb~ Our JAXZ needs to stay in bed with a large jug of harmless fluid at her side, take her medication and have an angel such as your good self delivering appetisng dainty morsels at regular intervals. And lots of love and get well wishes from all of us.

December 09, 2011 9:39 AM
4153 10photoviewsFirst-comFirst-photo Not Scarlett said...

Ah, yes grammer nazis. Right up there with those who complete sentences for others.

December 09, 2011 9:41 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

and have no reason to.

December 09, 2011 9:45 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

NS ~ I'm sorry.  I couldn't resist.

December 09, 2011 9:47 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Not Scarlett ~ unless, of course, it's your husband :).
 
Hazel ~ Yes, I do know how it is -- 3:00 pm, just about every day, finds me on the sofa.
 
JAXZ~ maybe some not so harmless liquids; they don't help, but you don't care.  Do feel better soon.

December 09, 2011 10:01 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Lynn ~ There is a line once crossed where the errors smother
the message.  

 
That is precisely when it matters.  Well written,
young man.
Legal code needs to be written with precision. 
Contracts need to be written with precision.  Technical writing needs to be
precise.
A business letter should be precise. We should
never lose sight of the whensomethingmattersness of being precise.
Not with grammer, spelling, business and especially
not with love.

December 09, 2011 10:09 AM
First-comHr-1 IreneR said...

Please don't hate me. I'm a little bit of a grammar nazi myself. Gulp! Here's my excuse. I write and edit for a living--magazines, newspapers, radio commentary, books--and so grammar, punctuation and spelling are important to me. Yesterday, I received an engraved (yes, they still do that) invitation with eeeeeek! a grammatical gaff. Since I've done some copyediting for the person who sent the invitation, my first thought was to reach out and say whoops! you've made a mistake! After a moment, I calmed down. Folks receiving the invitation will be delighted to be invited. Good grammar does not a good party make. So, sigh...I let it go. 

more on the honor roll
December 09, 2011 10:20 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Does anyone in the village other than myself find
it ironic that our own Miss Bebe would state, "I just would not dream of correcting someone
unless they specifically asked. It is rude & presumptuous."?  You're a
school teacher. A SCHOOL TEACHER.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it your
job to correct people when they are wrong?  If not, then why are my knuckles
gnarled from all the raps they took when I was a young lad of no good standing
in the community?  Just askin'.
 
Oh and Chef Deb, one of my
favorite things to do is stop a child in his tracks with "HEY!  What do you
think you are doing?"  It is sad when you happen upon an instance where the
child understands and the parent doesn't. 
 
Paolos ~ 9:41, you dangled a
preposition and no one corrected you.  Next time complete your sentence when you
are completing a sentence...bwaaaahaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
 
I'm done.  Stoney, I am ready for the head thump.

December 09, 2011 10:35 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Rusty said...

Hazel, glad to see you doing better.  Please stay well.
 
Jazx, now it's your turn to mend.  sending prayers. 
 
Ivan, concisely perfect.
 
  Sometimes holding my tongue when a grammatical mistake is within my hearing is like not reacting to fingernails on the blackboard.   I know I have a spelling problem being dyslexic, but even if I can't spell it I know the proper English.  Like Digger, I have been an editor of books so for me it's "To correct or not to correct?"  That is a question, and I think it depends on who, how, and under what circumstances.

December 09, 2011 10:41 AM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

When my Dad was contimplating what to do with his retirement, he tried teaching accounting for awhile at the master's level.  He stopped though and pursued other interests.  The reason?  He was tired of correcting all the grammer and spelling. These were students going after their master's degrees, and they couldn't write worth a damn. He didn't want to be an English teacher.  He ended up editing some accounting magazine--at least the professional writers knew the rules.

December 09, 2011 10:42 AM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Oops!  Contemplating!

December 09, 2011 10:51 AM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


The silvery morning moon looks cold and, at 17°F, I guess it is.
Reading back, what a treat to have Park4 squared away, Georgia and Jax (get better and then, tell Hazel how you did it), KYC and Peter Lake all back on board and if there is an award for good, hard work, paolos has that sewn up.

A girl I didn't remember form a high school honors English class in another town, contacted me with an interesting story I had not  heard.
I had sent a message to the teacher: "Something beyond awful has happened and we will be out of town for a week or so. Having never begun a writing assignment prior to the night before, I didn't do the paper due today. I will try when I can."
There was a bit more but not much and there were some in the class who had resented that having almost never achieved the minimum number of words or pages, I had stayed with them.
Someone joked: "He's probably just up in Oshkosh with his girlfriend," (you all know her eighteen thousand and five-hundred days later) and it got his cork.
He told them that, not having read theirs, he was going to accept my three paragraphs as satisfying the assignment and: "Good luck to the rest of you with the curve."
Nothing was ever said about it but he was the first person to say: "It would be interesting but not essential to, just once, read the two thirds(?) of words that you leave off the page."
I don't keep them but it seems to me that everybody, being at least as smart as I am, doesn't need them anyway.

Self Editing… sigh
A couple of posters have been around here longer than have I but not by much and speaking for myself, I have yet to see one instance of someone popping impatiently back in to correct an error that was essential to understanding what had been written.
In the words of my now (thanks to JaxZ) favorite editor, Wolcott Gibbs: "Don't be precious about it."

Hard to say which is worse: being sick or watching people you care about do it.
What say we try neither for a good long while.
A tip: no matter how bad I have ever felt, it was a comfort to think - it is not as bad as a Jerry Lewis film festival.




December 09, 2011 10:56 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

I have often wondered what epletives monks were permitted when they got to the last but one line of a lovely mauscript, only to make an error.

December 09, 2011 10:58 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Does thinking about it make matters worse? eXpletives.

December 09, 2011 11:01 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

First, will someone tell me what Villagers' recent references to "da" in vaious forms means?  I was away a while, ill, and when I returned, new things had happened (of which I was unaware.)
 
 
Now to today. Put in blender one terrible typist and one excellent speller.  Blend 'til mush. You have me.  Add love of language, adoration of words, inveterate editing-I-can't-help-myself-though-always-a-better-editor-of-others'-work. With large spatula, stir in word-collecting.  Season to taste.
 
There you have it. (I've always loved the Churchill quotation, and fully believe he wrote it.)
 
It's like learning to play a musical instrument, if we want an analogy.  Once you've mastered the basics you may add grace notes, riffs....  Or writing poetry: Master form, then make your way to free verse.  Same with fiction or with non-fiction prose.  Errors in others' work jump up, red flags in a bullring, but I read right over my own mistakes; an editor with a keen eye and a sharp scalpel is essential.  See there: I put three esses (?) in "essential." I happened to catch it, but most times I don't, and y'all put up charmingly with my typographical messes. One of many reasons I love you.

December 09, 2011 11:02 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

yep: I really know how to spell "various." See what I mean?

December 09, 2011 11:05 AM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


The silvery morning moon looks cold and, at 17°F, I guess it is.
Reading back, what a treat to have Park4 squared away, Georgia and Jax (get better and then, tell Hazel how you did it), KYC and Peter Lake all back on board and if there is an award for good, hard work, paolos has that sewn up.

A girl I didn't remember form a high school honors English class in another town, contacted me with an interesting story I had not  heard.
I had sent a message to the teacher: "Something beyond awful has happened and we will be out of town for a week or so. Having never begun a writing assignment prior to the night before, I didn't do the paper due today. I will try when I can."
There was a bit more but not much and there were some in the class who had resented that having almost never achieved the minimum number of words or pages, I had stayed with them.
Someone joked: "He's probably just up in Oshkosh with his girlfriend," (you all know her eighteen thousand and five-hundred days later) and it got his cork.
He told them that, not having read theirs, he was going to accept my three paragraphs as satisfying the assignment and: "Good luck to the rest of you with the curve."
Nothing was ever said about it but he was the first person to say: "It would be interesting but not essential to, just once, read the two thirds(?) of words that you leave off the page."
I don't keep them but it seems to me that everybody, being at least as smart as I am, doesn't need them anyway.

Self Editing… sigh
A couple of posters have been around here longer than have I but not by much and speaking for myself, I have yet to see one instance of someone popping impatiently back in to correct an error that was essential to understanding what had been written.
In the words of my now (thanks to JaxZ) favorite editor, Wolcott Gibbs: "Don't be precious about it."

Hard to say which is worse: being sick or watching people you care about do it.
What say we try neither for a good long while.
A tip: no matter how bad I have ever felt, it was a comfort to think - it is not as bad as a Jerry Lewis film festival.




December 09, 2011 11:06 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

"A couple of Kerouacs with Sharpies..." the two guys who travel the USA correcting signs....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi-typo-guys-0521may21%2C0%2C701362.story

I could do that....but would have a bad time with all the abuse and lack of appreciation from those being corrected. Wonder if those men are still at it?

I do not correct strangers or even friends, and I do have several friends who say, "It's been so long since I seen you"... or write "Lady's are more likely to shop there." I have aged into acceptance of the misuse of our language, and the attitude that getting the msg. across is more important than having it expressed correctly. Your own children who "text" you will do that to you! Such as, "Whr R U, Mom?" Afterall, one man's spelling or grammar may not even be the same as another person's from a different part of the country, or from the mother country, right, Hazel?

Get-well wishes going out to Hazel and JaxZ!! I have finally gotten over my bronchitis, but it took over three weeks! Lots of Vit. C, liquids, rest, Fexofenadine, nasal spray, tissues, and patience. Heal, heal, heal!!

P.S. Chicken soup did not hurt, either.

December 09, 2011 11:20 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

Paolos - Re: Miss Bebe being a teacher and charged with correcting her charges, I taught for over 30 years, and my subject was English, now that you mention it! Many were the occasions when I could have pointed out errors in the works of colleagues and even the principals!! But, I did not. Perhaps for fear of reprisals, or simply because most folks don't like to be corrected, and part of working with a school staff is to "get along."

I bet since Bebe works with elementary age children, she is kind about correcting their speech, and corrects mostly on written papers with pointed purposes of instruction. No co-workers will thank you for correcting them, even teachers. (I have seen "license," "separate," and "calendar" misspelled on so many school classroom chalkboards that I lost count!) Okay, I know they don't have chalk anymore, but substitute whiteboards, or Promethean boards, or whatever they schools are using now! I'd bet good $$ those words are still glaring before students somewhere as misspelled as ever!

Likewise, the students were free to speak as they felt comfortable, and I did not correct them, unless the error was in a written paper with the express goal of corresponding correctly. Nothing will kill the kids' love for the teacher quite like having a teacher who says, "There is no such word as 'ain't,' Jerry!" If they were aware, the ones who misspoke, usually self-corrected on "ain't," but the ones who had said "wheelbarrel" and "pacifically" (wheelbarrow, specifically) could continue to talk the way those at their homes spoke. Now, if the class (these are 11th-12th graders) were in good business communication, then I helped them to see that having good grammar might help them to get a good job.

December 09, 2011 11:31 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

IMARJORIE This is totally off-topic but your story about your father not wanting to teach English reminded me of a day when my (then in his 70s) came home in the middle of the afternoon. Why are you here? inquired my mother. "The young draftsman asked me who the guy sitting in the chair in the Lincoln Memorial is."

December 09, 2011 11:32 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

(self correcting) when my FATHER came home...

December 09, 2011 11:37 AM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

*raises hand* I am guilty of this to a certain extent.  I have become irrationally annoyed when people confuse: their, they're, and there.  Or: It's and Its.  Or: Threw and Through.  I love words.  Words are fascinating. 
 
They are a palette of expression and it always amazes me that so few care so little that they will not deign to dip their brush in anything but primary colors.  They sneer and the unlimited smorgasbord of articulation and opt for the white bread grilled cheese of the linguistic world...with the crusts cut off.  Not only to they scoff at "$10 words" and the folks who use them, they mangle the poor every day words that they do use.  Don't even get me started on the fact that a whole generation of kids are texting, and emailing wholly without vowels.
 
I'm all for a good mashup word: Precipifoiled, having fun outdoor plans being spoiled by precipitation.  It isn't a "real" word but it still has meaning and color.  Words are the building blocks of grammar.  A few typos are acceptable but when people bludgeon in the language in their written correspondence on a regular basis it is time for an intervention.
 
Example.  We have to make notes on every account or loan that we access, every time we access it.  These notes are rife with industry standard abbreviations (HELOC, stip, app) or more company specific types (LMTRC, the CCU, opdep).  Confusing and almost as time consuming as just spelling out what you mean, but at least they are standarized.  What bothers me are neolithic grunts of notes: "Theyr is comin to apples for loan four a turk. Theys have good credit an income are verifies."
 
Tell me, what institution would be proud to stand up and read that missive in a court of law if these files were required by subpeona to be read aloud?  I do realise that there are those among us with spelling and reading deficiencies that can be excused by the daunting spector of learning disabilities, but surely not 20 some odd members of the staff of one small company.  It would be the tighest institutional grouping of dyslexia that I know of.
 
If you would spend one afternoon perusing what I must read in any given day you would understand the hellacious state of grammar that runs rampant in younger generations today.  I know before even reading the letters, based on who wrote them and the writer's age, whether or not I'm going to have a migraine by the end of it.
 
All that being said...among friends their intention counts more than correct grammar.  Yes it is still a pet peeve and I struggle to refrain from breaking out the red pen when I am reading texts, facebook statuses, emails, or hand written notes.  But I do manage to curb my enthusiasm for editing because good friends are priceless.  Here we are amongst friends.  So I hope to forget and forgive your errors, if you will return the favor.

December 09, 2011 11:44 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

If it wuzunt formy  woman, I wudn't be no more'n a dog turd in a turnip patch.

December 09, 2011 11:47 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

KC:  Thank You, but that was my first attempt at Self-Restraint .......
 
LYNN:  Kudos !!!
 
MISS BEBE:  Some times, ever Sticklers get pith'd off .......
 
MISS RUSTY:  I Thank You .......
 
MISS ANDY:  My Apologies ... Never any intent to be Rude ... I simply feel that in a world where Civility should certainly reign supreme, and as a person of Good Breeding and Proper Education, I owe to my Fellows the very Best that I can give of myself, to benefit them, and to Honor their existence ... taking great care to help preclude the possibility of their appearing Oafish and/or Ill-Educated, before others ... and possibly lose credibility because of it ... The Ripple Effect of such instances can be quite damning Socially and in Business ... I read a Brilliant Treatise on, The Psycholigy of Communication, which gave Clinical & Statistic Evidence that says, even a Third Grade Dropout, Ditch Digger ... mistrusts one who SHOULD know how to speak correctly, but doesn't ... The Ditch Digger himself might not realize why he mistrusts the Speaker, but his Psyche does, and he will react accordingly, whether he realizes what he is doing or not ... The way the Human Mind works, that mistrust translates into a foreboding of deception ...
 
One of the Boons of Proper English and Flawless Diction, is that Lip Readers love me and enjoy my Services and Sunday School ... So, it can't be ALL Bad .......
 
DIGGER:  Keep up the Good Work .......

December 09, 2011 11:49 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

Because I can Speak Correctly, doesn't mean that my Fingers always hit the right Key when I am trying to Spell/Type ...

December 09, 2011 11:53 AM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Ivan, I love the way you use your words.

December 09, 2011 11:56 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

 
 
 
 
After being baited by Paolos, Miss Blue dropped the line into the water.

December 09, 2011 11:59 AM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

I actually encourage people to correct me when I've made mistakes.  I would rather not sound like a dolt, if it can be helped.  Correction sharpens my mental acuity.  It is hard to see the light when you sit in a dark room and someone else knows the location of the switch but doesn't disseminate that knowledge out of fear of offending.  Now, gently correction, made in the spirit of commraderie is different than the knuckle busting, ruler slapping, incessant correction...especially if the person doing the correction doesn't know what the rules of grammar are (but think they do).

December 09, 2011 12:02 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

GEORGIA Bore da and Nos da are Good morning and good evening in Welsh. Our Hazel has been expanding our international vocabularies.

December 09, 2011 12:28 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

I too correct and edit, in my mind.  There are those with whom I deal who often use words sprinkled hither and yon that they've heard and liked the sound of (of which they liked the sound :)  ).  And while I find this personally grating, I have to consider the source and keep my mouth shut.  My son and I had this discussion recently about a word his partner uses all the time.  He says "irregardless" and my son says there is no such word, that the word is "regardless" and so we looked it up and found the meaning, but that the word that should be used of course is "regardless" -- I asked him to keep it to himself.

December 09, 2011 12:28 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

PS ~ Ivan ~ No apologies -- I love your words.

December 09, 2011 1:16 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

I lovereading missives (say, where IS Miss Ive?) that have been written (concocted?)on a new tablet thingy....doe snot....is an example

December 09, 2011 1:25 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

I always enjoy the coments of the Eye group  and espiaclly theseones today.

December 09, 2011 1:31 PM
Com-100First-comHr-1 smilesforever said...

I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time...I do work with a lot of young people, and I'm staggered by the lack of grammar that they have.  Last Summer, had a recent college grad( and I thought SUNY schools were supposed to be good) working part time and I very kindly told him that the lunch feature was a "striped bass", not a "stripe-ped bass".  He thanked me, and asked that I correct him whenever possible so he could (get this!) "Talk good English." So I spent a summer of "isn't, not ain't", "saw, not seen", "have you made a selection? Not youse guys ready?"  All in all, it was fun and funny, and maybe he got something out of it.  Now if I could get the Grandchildren to move out of "I want" to "Please may I have" I'd be happier, and they would get more cookies...maybe.

December 09, 2011 1:43 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

IreneR~ Forgive Us! Welcome and thanks for your amusing comment. Stay around ..... it gets worse!

December 09, 2011 1:44 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

I've been rereading my hardbound Everyman's Library edition of E.M. Forster's "A Passage to India" and raised my eyebrows several times over some errors that passed the proofer.  Now mind you this is about the fifth time I've read this edition and I don't recall noticing them before--although I come as credentialed as the rest of you to this. Does it ruin it for me?  No.  But it does make me realize that every single one of us is apt to err or to miss something.  Even the professional proofer/editor can miss things.  Is it good?  No, of course not.  Do you ever have an off day?   Proofing/correcting is essential in legal docs, recipes and medical scrips.  I hold proofers to a perfection standard in those areas.  It doesn't help to exercise my ego by correcting others in social situations.  If it was essential in a learning or modeling situation, by all means help them out.  Demonstrate pronunciation to the tyro, model good presentation always, but be gracious.   I'm sure that in other areas we demonstrate gaffes that can be just as irritating.

December 09, 2011 1:49 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Rusty said...

Nachista, the problems you face do not seem to stem from dylexia.  Looks more like haste and carelessness to me.  That is so sad, both for you and for the person who writes it.   The migraine is understandable.
 
I do reverse letters and not see it.  The spell checker warns me, and I have to read letter by letter, especially if I'm tired or upset.  Example: I'll write brwon and firmly believe it is correct.  Before spell checker and while in grade school and highschool when dyslexia was not recognized I had to catch my own mistakes which probably honed my editing skills. 

December 09, 2011 1:54 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Spell check mode on iPhone has me texting and emailing some crazy ass things. It's like my attempt at Semaphore, smoke signals, and Morse Code as a kid and my attempts at "signing" could easily result in laughter or getting slapped. Even when I am grammatically perfect I am often clearly misunderstood. i before e except after c & no preps at the end of the sentence unless it's incomplete then it's not really a sentence..may I errr can I?

December 09, 2011 2:14 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Rusty, I have more than one co-worker who claims dyslexia, even though they've never been diagnosed or seen anyone about the problem the "just know I have it".  I believe they may have problems with reading, comprehension, and composition, but I also believe that those problems stem from a lack of discipline and study.  The phrase "If you don't use it, you lose it" comes to mind.  The mind is a muscle and I come in contact with a lot of mental couch potatoes.  There seems to be a general malaise in the professional world these days when it comes to grammar, composition, and spelling.  I hear a lot of "Who care's?" and it is depressing.

December 09, 2011 2:17 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Thank heavens for the automatic spellcheck alerts, those little red lines under words have saved me from ebarrassment many times.  Although, computers are a poor substitute for thorough draft editing by a diligent human.  I need help with commas.  I learned the commas rules 20 years ago and have completely forgotten them.

December 09, 2011 2:18 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Case in point where human editing trumps computer editing: http://damnyouautocorrect.com/

December 09, 2011 2:27 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Rusty ~ I too found that I type words in an odd fashion (brwon would be one) but never do it when I write by hand.  Then I just skip words as I'm thinking them instead of writing them.   Nachista ~ Doesn't the commas go wherever you take a breath :)

December 09, 2011 2:27 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

My husband's biggest linguistic pet peeves are incorrect demonyms and english speakers who refer to Ukraine as "The Ukraine".  His response is "Would you say The England or The Germany or The France?  It is simply Ukraine".  And trust me if you just make up a gentilic that sounds right for denizens of a place without following the "rules" you will find yourself his naughty list. 
 
Oh, and how could I forget his constant correction of the phrase "I have to say...", he would say that technically none of us HAVE to say anything, we feel compelled to say it or we would like to say it but we do not have a physical imperative that forces us to say things against our will.

December 09, 2011 2:28 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Arocdnicg to rsceearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pcale. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit pobelrm. Tihs is buseace the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe

December 09, 2011 2:34 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

ChefDeb loved the story about your Dad.  Sort of like the old riddles about the color of Washington's white horse and who was buried in Grant's Tomb.  Back on topic, I was once asked to proofread a letter written by a colleague to a prospective client.  We were both in our early 30's, about 25 years ago. I couldn't understand the letter. It made no sense.  I had never realized that my schooling and liberal arts education had taught me such a valuable skill--the ability so put thoughts on paper.  I'm no Jane Austen, but I can be understood.  I told him the letter was fine.  I was just stunned.

December 09, 2011 2:58 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Dearest lovely Villagers,  Many thanks to you all for filling my Friday morning with such wonderful thoughts on the topic of grammar and spelling. When I was young, I was a grammar nazi to the point that I stopped writing to a boy I thought was very cute because his spelling and grammar in his notes back to me were so ghastly.
Fastforward twenty years - I'm now married to one of the most brilliant minds I know, but he often can't spell his way out of a box. And his use of commas, is, well, I, would, have to say that 'he, puts them where they don't, have any business, being.' Guess it's good that he married me. I generally don't correct other people. My biggest pet peeve these days is the laziness of proofreading on the news services. I cringe at all the typos - including omitting the subject of the sentence entirely, misuse of 'their, there, they're' and 'it, it's'. One cannot expect the masses to get the language correct if their inspiration comes from a group of buffoons.  Sadly, nachista~, up until I read your post, I called it 'The Ukraine.' I now know better.  IreneR~ Welcome! I've not been here very long, but have come to very much look forward to the comments of the magnificent group of thoughtful, considerate and kind people here.

December 09, 2011 2:58 PM
Beth_1209 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 EADutton said...

I am one of those sticklers.  Yes, it makes me cringe when I have to read emails from people who you have the expectation of being grammatically correct in their writings and really go amok with it all!
 
My children are glad that I am a stickler.  They can at least construct a complete sentence in this day and age of texting jargon.  My grandchildren are happy that I am a stickler as well (I recently had to watch them for a week and had to help with thier homework which included spelling words and correct use of them in sentences.) 
 
But, I think it is politically correct not to correct someone's grammar (unless you are asked to do so). 

December 09, 2011 2:59 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

On a side note, I have to stop writing my comments in the Firefox Browser. I keep forgetting that it doesn't accept my paragraph stops... My apologies for the run-on posts of the last several weeks.

December 09, 2011 3:07 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

This is such a classic and many have probably heard it, but it couldn't fit today's topic more...

A new monk arrived at the monastery. He was assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He noticed, however, that they were copying copies, not the original books. The new monk went to the head monk to ask him about this. He pointed out that if there were an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies.

The head monk said, 'We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son.' The head monk went down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original.

Hours later, nobody had seen him, so one of the monks went downstairs to look for him. He heard a sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and found the old monk leaning over one of the original books, crying.

He asked what was wrong.

'The word is 'celebrate,' not 'celibate'!' sobbed the head monk.

December 09, 2011 3:08 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


One of my favorites is: "If that is all, I'll get you guyses bill ready."
She is just so adorable and good at her job, we don't care.

December 09, 2011 3:16 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

ANDY, that's how I do it, but there are specific rules regarding its use and I cannot remember them.CASSIEPANTS, don't worry I still say "The Ukraine", just to annoy him when he's annoying me.  Neither of us are of Ukrainian extraction so I don't know why it bothers him so much.

December 09, 2011 3:21 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Why, Miss Blue, are you prepositioning me? 
Is an opossum a dangling partysupial?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIw9waVI-m8
 

December 09, 2011 3:37 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

Time for me to Wish Every Single Person in This Village a Good and Happy Weekend !!!
May You all enjoy Good Weather, even if it is a little crisp outside ... Brite Sun to Warm Your Faces against the bite of the cold winds ... I Wish You All Good Food, Good Wine, Good Friends and Family, and Every Thing that Makes You Happy !!!
 
The Work Will Still Be There on Monday Morning ... Give it a Rest, and relax your Minds ...
 
 
To Those of You Who Do ... GOOD  SHABBOS !!!
 
May Our Rest Be Pleasing Unto Him Who Gave Us This Place .......
 
"Great is Your Power and Infinite Your Love ...
The Morning Stars Sing of Your Wisdom, and the Miracle of Life
Reveals Your Design ... "
 
Blessings Upon You All .......
 
 
IVAN

December 09, 2011 3:42 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Today I was corrected in my repetative error regarding the words compliment and complement. 
 
Compliment is a form of praise, think "I complIment you on your achievement"
 
Complement means that foods or beverages go well together, think "To complEte this dish add spicy mustard, it complEments the flavor of the meat."
 
If you were to say "The spicy mustard compliments the meant", it would mean that the mustard is talking to it and saying things like "have you been working out?" or "That spice rub looks fabulous on you".
 
Now I know.

December 09, 2011 3:47 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Shalom Ivan.

December 09, 2011 3:51 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Nachista,I love the way spicy mustard complements a good ham sandwich, and I will compliment the chef.  Your I and E trick is perfect.

December 09, 2011 3:57 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

I'm smarter thanks to the Village today!!!

December 09, 2011 4:13 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

I wonder why anyone ever started calling Ukraine the Ukraine. Is it an ego thing like The Donald?  Do Ukrainians have bad hair comb overs? 

December 09, 2011 4:23 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

If, for a while, the ruse of desire is calculable for the uses of discipline soon the repetition of guilt, justification, pseudo-scientific theories, superstition, spurious authorities, and classifications can be seen as the desperate effort to “normalize” formally the disturbance of a discourse of splitting that violates the rational, enlightened claims of its enunciatory modality.

*Urp*

Whew, I feel so much better now.

December 09, 2011 4:26 PM
4188 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Penelopetx said...

I am enjoying the comments from all of you, but I must confess, I finish sentences for my Mother, who suffered a stroke right after Hurricane Ike; I think my Father had something to do with it....  She appreciates that I know what she is talking about because I LISTEN to her.


Some spoken errors make me want to correct strangers, though I bite my tongue.  Some that come to mind:  "CONVERSATE"     "AXE YOU A QUERSTION"  many more, but I am sure you all have your favorites!


A colleague used the "texting" word "thru" on a memo that was to be distributed throughout the company and I refused to put my name on it until it was changed.  I hurt her feelings because I wanted to appear professional to my work colleagues.  AHH she needs thicker skin and I need to learn to pick my grammar/spelling battles....


Have a great weekend!  The bananas are ripe, the pecans are plentiful, butter is soft, eggs are fresh!  The  Banana Bread Baking Lollapalooza Weekend is here! 

December 09, 2011 4:41 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Billy Grammer and the Sticklers, may he rest in peace.
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Ss_MH4__8  ;

December 09, 2011 4:44 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Oooh Penelopetx "Can I axed choo summin?" drives me bonkers!  I learned a lesson while trying to correct a co-worker...always check before your correct.  I was telling them that the proper way to spell cancelled is with 2 Ls, turns out you can spell it as canceled or cancelled.  Caught me red pen handed.

December 09, 2011 4:54 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

Years ago when our kids were  getting to the age of wanting to sound cool, from about 8 to 13 or 14 we decided to find a fun way to correct them and hopefully have them learn something at the same time. At that time the word was   tough. Isn,t that a tough car? I love that tough sweater.So when they made a statement of that sort we told them that the word they had used was incorrect and they would need to use three other words to better describe what it was they were talking about. That is a gaudy car, its an ugly car, its a pretty car,etc. It got to be a game between them about who would correct and who would catch the other one. Then they started to use words that were slang like properly and if one of the others would catch them them but the statement was correct the one catching it would then have to use 3 words to also describe the situtation. Gettin caught saying that steak was tough by her sister caused the catcher to come up with 3 words. That steak is tender .rare, or overcooked would work. They had a lot of fun with the little game and by the time thety went to high school they were not using slang nearly as much as their friends.And friends parents would comment about our kids doing a better job of speaking  than most other kids their age.

December 09, 2011 5:05 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Thank you for the get-well wishes! I'll be back to full orneriness very soon. I may even take a test drive back through the village in a few hours to see if I can keep it between the lines. xxoo

December 09, 2011 5:15 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Nachista, you raise an interesting issue. Using one L in cancelled would rankle me as my schooling was in a British system. I have to put the 'u"s in colour, flavour, humour etc...and use "-ise" instead of "-ize" in civilise, recognise, patronise etc (I am getting a lot of red underlines there from the spellcheck here).

Hazel could help me here but we tend to use the present perfect tense on a past event that is affecting the present, eg: "I've lost my key, can you help me look for it?" The American acceptable alternative of "I lost my key, can you help me look for it?" is not standard British English. Or the use of the word "already" when using the simple past, "I have already seen that film" (British) vs "I already saw that film" (American).

Some other common misuse I think include "discuss about" instead of just "discuss" as in "let us discuss the ramifications of the Eurozone debt", and this one drives me nuts, saying "falling down" or "fell down"....I would like to see how anyone or anything fall any other way.

December 09, 2011 5:20 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

But I have to add I use a lot of texting and urban language in cases other than formal situations. I also use a lot of Singlish, the way locals in Singapore use English

December 09, 2011 5:30 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Spring ~ As you wish.
 
WARNING:  Contains graphic images of falling down,
falling under and falling over.   
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3y0CD2CoCs

December 09, 2011 5:37 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Paolos~ Brilliant! Thank you for sharing...

December 09, 2011 5:42 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Paolos......I can't stop laughing! My banana walnut cake's getting stuck in my throat

December 09, 2011 5:47 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Spring Fragrance, what bothers me with saw or seen is when people say "I seen it".  That phrase makes me cringe.  Almost as bad as "Did you saw it?", the saw usually has an R tacked on at the end as in "Did you sawr it?". 
 
There was a study done here in Utah about the missing "T".  Utahans (especially women from the ages of 15 to 40) tend to not pronounce hard Ts when the fall in the middle of a word, usually with words that end in an N sound.  So mountain is pronounced "MAO-un".  There are towns here called Layton and Newton and they are usually pronounced "LAY-un" and "NEW-un".  I guess this is more of an enunciation problem than it is one of grammar, but I find they tend to be related. 
 
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=16460735

December 09, 2011 5:54 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

NACHISTA--I call that swallowing ones Ts---its rampant up here.

December 09, 2011 5:54 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

CHEFDEB, thank you for keeping me informed; what would I do without you?  IVAN, use those words!
 
Oh, STONEY, a lovely story, and no wonder the teacher wondered what you edited out; no fool she.
I'm with you about "You guys's bill" and all variations thereon.  In the first place, I am not a guy.
 
A (much) older friend responded to a waiter who referred to the table collectively as "You guys," with "You may call me ma'am; you may call me old woman; you may call me nothing.  But a guy I am not. Do not refer to me as such."  I'm not comfortable making the waiter UNcomfortable, so would have said nothing.  The owner of that restaurant is at fault.
 
Someone mentioned "ax": Scraping fingernails on blackboard!  Looking at the word, how do you come up with an "x" sound?  That brand of error comes from peers or home, and the wise person will erase it from her speech.   If she wants a good job.

December 09, 2011 6:15 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Oh gee Nachista, I will have to remember that if I visit the US or I might land up in the wrong place. The one thing I can't stand about Australian English is how everyone replaces "my" with me, like "where is me book?", "have you seen me car keys?" ... Yet, Aussie English is closer to British English than American English is. English is such an amazing language in how it has united peoples of the world, even if it has divided us at the same time :)

Leaving now for my office's staff lunch. We're boarding a catamaran from the docks, will sail down the Channel (waters) and have lunch at the fancy Peppermint Bay Restaurant. That is 5 minutes from my farm actually ... sold them some products before, which then they go on to charge customers 10 times more.
Have a great evening everyone and Happy Sabbath to Ivan and the rest of your tribe.

December 09, 2011 6:31 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

 
 
  HAZEL, thank you for your beautiful language.  Welsh, spoken, sounds like music to me.  In another lifetime, I was in a college production of Shakespeare's Henry_VIII (I think?, whichever one
has the Welsh woman sing.  I made a recording and played it over and over (and over and over), writing the words phonetically 'til I knew them.  I got by with it: At least no Welshman came backstage to berate me, so it must've passed muster with my Welsh-ignorant audience.
 
Years later I met a Scotsman whose mother was Welsh; she never left the tiny village she was born in, and spoke only Welsh, so he and his siblings spoke it -- musically, beautifully.  Italian comes to mind as the most musical language, given all the music composed in it, and I doubt Welsh will take over as the language of opera.  But Welsh has its own lingering beauty -- other-worldly, magical.
 
Are you native to Wales?

December 09, 2011 6:51 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

"Missing T's"....................and yet we all bemoan the blending of the language and losing the distinction of localisms.    When TV first started broadcasting it was full of the lovely and varied accents and patterns of speech of the all of the wonderful blend of people that make up this crazy quilt of a country..........and then....all the broadcasters started sounding alike, losing their distinctive home talk.   Listen to a message that is computer generated and you will hear a very bland and lacking appeal message---I'm thinking of things like the NOAA weather broadcast or the test warnings on radio stations.   We should be embracing these colloquialisms rather than judging them.   Language/usage changes...even now they are trying to protect the last pocket of Norman English  in Britian..........but for every nit we pick we lose a fragment of the the color of our language.   And we would not be here in the Village if we didn't care about words or language or thinking.  That is part of the raison de etre of this site, I believe, and part of its attraction for me.    Paolos---too funny the clip w/gun

December 09, 2011 6:54 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

By the sheer numbers of our comments --97--prior to my post, this is something about which we all feel very passionate.

December 09, 2011 6:54 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

This is an evening to don my Mangy Moose threadbare sweatshirt and Tibetan slippers and fire up the Big Green Egg and throw on the marinated pork tenderloin and make those ungrammatical sounds like -mmmm oooooh aaaaah- as lips smack and eyes roll back and I'm thinkin that blood suckin' politicians who have lost touch with the rest of us can kiss my butt. Having my Suds and my Studs Terkel “Perhaps it is this specter that most haunts working men and women: the planned obsolescence of people that is of a piece with the planned obsolescence of the things they make. Or sell.” As an old peddler I am still selling until the day I die the concept that people are the most important resource.

December 09, 2011 7:11 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Carol, I agree with you to some extent.  I try not to nitpick outside of work, but I do believe that in a professional setting it is important to use correct grammar, punctuation, and spelling.  When I'm speaking with a member about the $100,000 loan for his classic gullwing Aston Martin it does not behoove me to say things like "Duh y'all wanna cum inta town to sign yer documents here or wudcha want me to email them to ya where yer at?".  And colloquialisms like "I bet that car makes you happier than a seagull in a McDonald's parking lot" would definitely be frowned upon.  Casual, everyday language is fine for relaxed speech and silly idioms.  I just prefer my bankers, financial advisors, attorneys, realtors, medical professionals, law enforcement, customer service reps and other professionals to speak properly, succinctly, and with a clarity that can easily be understood by anyone.  Sales clerks, servers, stylists, nail techs and other people who have more informal positions do not bother me when they use local vernacular or poor grammar.  I don't know why it makes a different to me, maybe I'm secretly a snob at heart.  *shrugs*  Who knows?  ;)

December 09, 2011 7:14 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Difference, not different.  Poor proof reading indeed.

December 09, 2011 7:25 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Spring~ Thanks for sharing the link! What a lovely place. Enjoy! Nachista~  I am one hundred percent in agreement with you on preferring that people in charge of managing my money, my legal matters, my health, my safety, and the safe passage of my merchandise from point of purchase to destination speak proper English. I'm not so picky as to expect them to call me 'Ma'am', though as a Southerner at heart I do appreciate it. I just don't see why I should be expected to believe someone who speaks as if they took no more than 2nd grade grammar would actually be able to assist me in any of the above situations. So I'll be a language snob with you...if you don't mind the company...   

December 09, 2011 7:29 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Lt. Finn- It took a couple of days cause we take things slow and easy in these parts but we came up with a hundred posts symbolic of your hundred years of living life like a hero even though you don't like the "hero crap"- you is one. Thank ye kindly.

December 09, 2011 7:41 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

Well, aren't we the literate bunch riding theSepiaTrain!! Enjoyable posts today, All!! Let's pull out our Funk&Wagnall's and settle back with a nice hot toddy as we fall asleep to the clickity clack of the cars on the rails....g'night!

December 09, 2011 7:41 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Cassiepants I always enjoy speaking with our affiliates in Texas because they sound genuinely warm and friendly and call me hun in a sweet way.  Amazing how a male co-worker using that same word can anger me, but the context of the word and the inflection in the speech make all the difference in the world. 
 
I'm a sucker for a breakfast waitress that calls me hun.  I don't even mind when she says things like "D'ya got everything you need?".  Anyone that gets up at the crack of O'Dark Thirty to serve my lazy body some hot food can speak anyway they want, if they are pleasant about it they get an extra large tip.

December 09, 2011 7:50 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

To Ivan and all to whom it applies (and even those to whom it doesn't) -- Good Shabbos

December 09, 2011 7:51 PM
Cestmoiparis 10photoviewsFirst-comFirst-photoFirst-review Alison said...

When it comes to grammar, if the sentence you are reading (which is different from a spoken sentence) is also intended for an audience that cares, it pays to pay attention to details, and to know how to express one's self correctly. In my line of work, not to do so means I won't charge for my services, since if I can't write clearly and with consistent correctness, I am too embarrassed to ask to be paid. Also, I am an English teacher. I teach English, with grammar rolled up inside it, to students of various ages. So in my line of work, correct grammar makes an enormous difference. Even so, I make many mistakes, especially online, in a casual environment, because one's audience ends up determining how grammatical you 'ought' to be. A more casual audience almost demands a more casual set of grammar rules. As I have pointed out to students, when you're writing an email to your best friend, you are addressing a very different audience than when you're writing one to your professor. To use the same grammar and sentence structure with both would make your friend nervous, or your professor convinced you need remedial English. ;-)

Ultimately, clarity and meaning are what drive grammar use to begin with. If you can be understood, you should be fine. It's important to remember that the conventions we agree on now will change in five years; it has always been this way, because that's the nature of language use: it changes and evolves with use.

People who get snotty about online grammar forget their audience; it is rare to expect a fully-edited manuscript from a typical online interaction, nor should the rapidity of the internet be expected to live up to those publishing standards. I have seen some very silly comments about how we're losing quality of communication standards, when in fact, the people who say these things are comparing apples and kumquats. An email doesn't have to be held up to the same standards as _For Whom The Bell Tolls_. It's not realistic, nor is it necessary, for the writer to attempt to attain that standard with every written form.

Sadly, I could go on all day about this subject. ;-)

December 09, 2011 7:56 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

"What is this, the high hat?"*

*Johnny Caspar


"I knew I was in the wrong neighborhood. The moment I opened my mouth to speak."**

**South-Sider


December 09, 2011 8:14 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Obsessive, self-flagellating, after the fact editing makes me tired… very tired.

And now that it is pretty clear how picky some of us are, I will do even less than ever.
 

December 09, 2011 8:18 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Stoney~ I'm picky when it comes to legal jargon, medical information and other such technobabble. When I'm here in the Village, I simply enjoy the warmth of the people in my virtual neighborhood.  So long as you don't try to convince me a) that kielbasa is yummy (though as a girl of Polish heritage, I should love it) and b) that cinnamon rolls are not an essential part of a balanced diet, we should be good.  With that, I'm off to enjoy good food, good company, and a good Friday. As Hazel always says, Nos Da, dear friends.

December 09, 2011 8:22 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 spring rain said...

Hearing "I ain't got no__"  and "I SEEN ___" and "I had wrote him a notel"  is like fingernails on a chalkboard.  However, I would not correct anyone's grammar.  The individual is more important than their grammar. I am a teacher.  I have had a few friends imply they were intimidated by me when they send emails my way.  They were concerned they may make a grammatical or spelling error.  I assured them I would never correct them.  As a friend, I am not their teacher.  I am more concerned about their message.I am human and make many errors myself.

December 09, 2011 8:43 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

King Leo originally a product of Standard Company based in Nashville has been making a great Peppermint Stick since 1901 and now has the old classic hand dipped in chocolate. Soft sticks are so classically refreshing.

December 09, 2011 9:12 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

 


  I'll get the quotation wrong, but y'all will recognize it:  Great Britain and The U.S. are two nations divided by a common language.


  STONEY, my dear, now I know after-the-fact corrections irritate you, I'll never do it again -- and I'm among the worst in the Village because I'm by far the worst typist.  Thank you for putting me at ease about my awful habit.


  Thanks to CHEFDEB, I can now say "Nos da" as I wend my way from car to wonderful car on thesepia train, en route to the Club Car.  No finer way to end the day.


  No one's brought this up, and I, of all people, should:  "Y'all" is a proper, functional word, abused and misspelled by many (once I actually saw it spelled "ya'll" in New Yorker fiction.  Ouch.)  It's a simple and accurate contraction of "you all," i.e., "all of you." The apostrophe indicates missing letter(s), hence "y(ou) all," or "y'all."  Why filmmakers who spend millions fail to hire a diction coach bedevils me.  When actors say "y'all" to one person, they weren't coached; the same is true of any speaker.  And no one who hails from the South ever said "Come on back, now, y'all." Unless it's a mighty big group. 


  STONEY, knowing you liked Gordon MacRae in "Oklahoma!" as much as I did has made me hum those melodies all day. Still am....on my way to Club Car and Village happiness.


  TommyTYpical, I love those soft peppermint sticks, and they're hard to find. 


  


 


 


 

December 09, 2011 9:12 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

TT---------King Leo's---are they the ones with the hollow center that you can stick in an orange and inhale o.j. with?    I've always wanted to try that sticky experiment----and sticky it would be!!!You certainly can't harm anything by dipping it in chocolate--can you???

December 09, 2011 9:22 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

No hole in these but would make a great stir stick. Yes chocolate is like pi, a poifect constant. Horehound anyone?

December 09, 2011 10:03 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

Horehound is a horse of a different color entirely.     When I was  a kid the pastor of the church that housed the school that my dad principaled would always offer us a horehound drop when we went to his office.   Needless to say, after the first visit or two we learned to decline the sweet or get out of the visit with a much more pressing (for a 6 year old what could it be?) engagement.....

December 09, 2011 10:28 PM
First-com Anam Cara said...

Oh mores! Oh tempora! Government conspiracy to control people's minds you say? And why not, says I? They control just about everything else that's not nailed down and even some of those things, I'll warrant. Balderdash!

December 09, 2011 10:46 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

My spouse: "Did you fall?"

Me: "No, I just thought the floor seemed to need a hug."

December 09, 2011 10:46 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

No da y'all.

December 09, 2011 11:30 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Georgia ~
Don't let me get you down. I'm just old and impatient.

JaxZ ~
Stop doing that… floors are to be kept at leg's length.

Speaking of show tunes, a kid in our neighborhood not completely clear about his own identity uttered these enigmatic words: "Grayson, you homo, way to sing Broadway music in public… and you got the words all wrong."

December 10, 2011 12:57 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

My favorite nit?"I could care less",,,,,NO!  You COULDN"T CARE LESS

December 10, 2011 8:14 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PAOLOS.........................when I checked in yesterday afternoon at school for a much needed break I was taken aback by the sting in your post to me. I thought we were only talking about adults and so did not even go into teacher mode. Of course it is a given that I am on grammar patrol from the time I get to school at around 7:15 a.m. until I leave for the day or night. Once I leave school I am most definitely not.
I am on the board of our local animal shelter and we get cards w/ poor grammar, but a precious $5.00 tucked in, for the animals. I think that unless an adult very specifically asks me to correct them I have absolutely no business doing so. At the same time I respect CHEFD who said she did that when she had her restuarant. She was the employer and she felt comfortable doing that, so good for her.

Maybe this is rather long winded, but it took my breath away when I read it and I just did NOT expect it, especially from you. Your style would be to jokingly ask if I was letting the kids down. Maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill, ( I have definitely been known to do that) but I know how I felt when I read it. I felt rather like a fool whose professionalism was being questioned. Obviously I really like you and have enjoyed our banter and your posts very much which is why I fely compelled to write this. I just wanted to be clear although I have clearly rambled on. & so it goes, and so it goes....................

MOOSE.................Many thanks on the clarification. I really appreciated it. I was unable to post at school and your words made me thank you inside.....................

December 10, 2011 8:43 AM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Mick Jagger can't get no satisfaction.
Most men have found that by ignoring yard work and to-do lists or staring too obviously at the front or backside of an attractive waitress, they can.

It's 9°F or what we like to call, cool.

bebe ~
It looked like attempted humor.
Enjoy your weekend… you've earned it.

December 10, 2011 9:07 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Miss Bebe ~ I am so, so sorry. I knew full well
that you were talking about colleagues and not students, but I dove in
anyway.  It was, as Stoney said, an attempt at humor, a most horrifically failed
attempt. I should be more careful where I tread.  I know your love for the
kiddles and I have the greatest respect for the task you undertake every school
day.    If there is something you would have me write on the chalkboard, I am on
it. Please find it in your heart to forgive me and let me buy you a beer on the
next page.

December 10, 2011 9:53 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PAOLOS.......................thank you so very much. You are a good man. I had a day yesterday ( I work very hard to have great relationships w/ work colleagues, but some people are just not happy unless they are able to complain. A woman who torments everyone put a real dent in my day.............which is my way of telling you that I was oversensitive to everything yesterday. I'm not a drama diva who is always ready to cry or gets angry or other silly things some of these women bring to work..............)

Anyway, all is right in the world today. No need to write anything on the board. Just enjoy the day w/ your family and yes, you can definitely buy a beer. It could be the PAOLOS/BEBE beer summit....................no need to invite Obama.....................Thank you again. Your post means much to me and I am happy!

STONEY.....................I will & thank you. May you & TMBWITW have a great Saturday.

December 10, 2011 11:55 AM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

My favorite kind of person is a grammarian with a good sense of humor.  They're few and far between, so if you find one, don't let it go.

December 10, 2011 3:54 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Park, so we're going to pig-pile on Stoney?
(I know I'll have to apologize for that sometime but I couldn't resist.)
xo

December 10, 2011 5:16 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

okay by me, Jax...;)

Honor Roll


Please don't hate me. I'm a little bit of a grammar nazi myself. Gulp! Here's my excuse. I write ...

-IreneR

Dec. 09, 2011 10:09 AM

read full opinion



Yesterday's Discussion

John William Finn defined a hero on that fateful morning, 70 years ago on this date.

 

Read More 60 comments


Photo Contest Entries

Photo Contest Entry from JKH

Submitted by:
JKH
03/16/14

Photo Contest Entry from paulhenri

Submitted by:
paulhenri
04/04/14

Photo Contest Entry from chrisfortenbery

Submitted by:
chrisfortenbery
03/08/14

Photo Contest Entry from Alexandrine

Submitted by:
Alexandrine
04/15/14

Photo Contest Entry from saltypd

Submitted by:
saltypd
03/10/14