Depp is Hollywood's latest dapper gangster New York Daily News Take a look at an interesting article we found.
Gangster films take revenge on our behalf MSNBC Take a look at an interesting article we found.
John Dillinger's Ohio crime spree left out of new movie Boston Herald Take a look at an interesting article we found.
In an age of amazing technology, there's still something to be said for a paper plane that can fly almost 28 seconds.
July 17, 2009
You may have missed it, but Sheriff Pat Garrett shot William H. Bonney, better known as “Billy the Kid,” this week in 1881.
He was only 21 but his legend and own website lives on.
And memorable quotes like this, "Aw, you ain't worth killing.''
Skipping ahead about fifty years, we have John Dillinger, who said, “All my life I wanted to be a bank robber. Carry a gun and wear a mask. Now that it’s happened I guess I’m just about the best bank robber they ever had. And I sure am happy.”
You have to admire a man who knows what he wants. Also has a sense of history:
“These few dollars you lose here today are going to buy you stories to tell your children and great-grandchildren. This could be one of the big moments of your life; don’t make it your last.”
It’s easy to see why some of the folks he robbed shed a few tears when he met his end.
With “Public Enemies” killing them at the box office, it’s time to ask the question, why do we glorify these social miscreants?
It also gives us a great excuse to talk about movies.
For many years in Hollywood, there was a regulatory board that ensured that if anybody committed a crime in the story, they had to get theirs before the curtain fell.
It’s not mandatory today, but it just sort of happens naturally and having Redford, Newman, Beatty and Depp playing outlaws could work up a load of sympathy.
And there's something to be said for those who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and made a name for themselves.
Waylon Jennings in “Ladies love outlaws,” claims, “Cause ladies love outlaws like babies love stray dogs.”
Slightly sexist, I know, but the song is catchy.
Going a little deeper, another theory says those criminals glorified in our culture are usually "social" criminals; they're fighting back against corporate and government interests that oppress the common man.
As opposed to modern days crooks who rob everybody.
But we don’t want to get too heavy talking about heavies on a Friday.
Which fortunately leads us to our favorite “bad guy”movies. Fictional or real.
Wanted by the FBI fbi.gov Take a look at an interesting article we found.
Old West Female Outlaws suite101.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.
Outlaws in American History outlawarchive.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.
The course of true love runs this way, in reality: you love him and he knows you do, really...
Jul. 17, 2009 1:16 PM
Favorite "outlaw" movie, besides "The Godfather"?
3% 6% 3% 58% 29%
Best Bad Guy in recent memory: Prince Nuada from Hellboy II. Great character. Great backstory. I kinda wished he'd won.
I think my favorite "Rooting for The Bad Guy" Gangster Movie would have to be a toss-up between, BROTHER ORCHID - 1940 AND LARCENY INC. - 1942 ... Both starring Edward G. Robinson as the "Bad Guy" and both of which are Comedies ... Both Films are improbable and absurd in their premise, but both of them just, ... work ....... We see Robinson, with Little Caesar or Johnny Rocco already fixed in our memories, and Robinson intensely Gangsteresque right down to his spats, but bungling like Andy Gump (Sally Fields' Older Son) ... The Bad Guy shows up as being quite Human after all, rather than a bad charicature of himself ... All the style, all the panache, all the moxie are right there and just as obvious as an elephant in an ice box, but every venture launched with the foulest intentions turns out to be an Andy Hardy epic. Every rotten thing turns out good, for somebody ... absolutely against type and the supporting casts of both films are the same goons that appear in every other Gangster movie, with only a few switches ... Allen Jenkins , the ever present No-Nose sychophant from Flatbush, is superb as always, and he was usually cast as a Heavy in films because he had that classifiable Look about him and that God-Awful accent ... after a few years of doing improv during poker games with Rags Ragland, someone noticed that Jenkins had a flair for comedy, and his career revived ... but thats a whole nuther story ....... Even tho' the improbability of it all made for a thin-ice situation, Robinson carried it off with without a hitch ... later, when Key Largo came along, we saw Robinson back to his old self, but he never missed a beat ... Great Flicks !!! Very impactful on the audience ... I watched these old films on The Late Late Show so many times when I'm a kid, that for years I thought Barton McLane was head of the FBI ....... We'd all have been better off if he had been .......
I spent a summer living up by Little Bohemia in Northern WI where Dillinger & the G-men had a shoot out. The bullet holes are still in the place. (even though the film crew just about burned it down making Public Enemies last year) Most of the H.S. kids & the college counselors I was up there working with had no clue who Dillinger was & why it's an important part of history. I swear more people need to start watching the WB gangster films so they can get a bit of a sense of history.
I just watched Cagney in Public Enemies the other nite ~ He & Edward G. Robinson played the best gangsters. I will say that Bogey was alright in Petrified Forest & as a secondary gangster in 3 on a match but those 2 are amazing. I love watching them they seem about 10 feet tall even though they were both short by many standards to play leading men in the Golden Age of Hollywood.
The Actress Myrna Loy in her Autobiography expressed some guilt & sadness over her role in the death of John Dillinger as she was his favorite actress & he went to see one of her films at the Chicago Theater that nite. It goes to show he really did have his own celebrity persona happening at the time. Out of everything in that womens life she still expressed sympathy for it almost 50 years later.... It jsut gives a level to his life & his character even more so than Bonnie Clyde's have.
It is clear to me that our friend, Stoney, is dangling his participles elsewhere and I'm feeling some guilt for having encouraged him to do that when he was carping about not enjoying being taken seriously.
Having spent more time at his house when they were away, than when they were not, I still know that he has a nice story about something called Rhubarb Küchen from his boyhood that would give every reader a quiet moment or two.
That, and he lives under the skies in Oshkosh and has EAA related stories and good ones.
Not to mention, that he sent photos of the "old-provements" that were made to the downtown when it was closed for weeks for the filming of the Johnny Depp gangster movie.
He was asleep on the big sofa when we left the other day and I think that the reason my sister lagged was to plant one on his forehead.
I know that they were in communication in the middle of last night because he was online helping her create and send photo files. We'll see.
Whoever invented this little USB gadget that takes the internet anywhere you want, is my hero along with the guy who loaned it to me because we are deep in nowhere.
The freshest fish in the world but, with heads. They don't do that with the bacon.
Let's not forget the pattern where the "good guy" becomes same & similar to the bad guy to get the job done. Reflect on the popularity of "Dirty Harry," the rogue cop played again and again by Clint Eastwood. There of course are others. The genre is everywhere on broadcast media. The movies were extremely well-attended in the great depression. Bread & circuses.
Yeah, Bread and Circuses. I get a little uneasy when people of Great Influence decide it is not up to them to impose morality. It sounds a little like they don't want their morals examined too closely. If you wander back through time, the morals of a civilization are almost always embodied in its literature. I think the popularity of Robin Hood and Bonnie and Clyde rests on a perceived injustice being made right- that and there generally being more beneficiaries of their behavior then victims. The true morals of humanity have never been quite as pristine as those in uplifting books and plays, but when you start seeing selfishness and inconsideration writ large, some people are going to use that as an excuse. Dillinger's offer of a Great Story in exchange for all of your cash would seem a lot beter if it was not ALL of your cash. Just try paying the mortgage with that story. This crowd may not have had occasion to spot the huge popularity of images of Al Pacino from SCARFACE, which is older than many of the kids wearing T shirts depicting it. One day I was talking with a young guy and I suggested that he might choose another shirt for his own upcoming appointment with the judicial system. He looked at me from over Pacino's face and said "Sir, you are wrong. That's Al Capone." What do they say about not learning from the past? I believe there is good in every person. But I can't see much good in threatening other people, (with their own good inside them,) just to take from them what you don't want to earn. And I believe any portrayal of any person ought to be complicated by the acknowledgement that we are all influenced by many factors. But, when your parents or children are lying on the floor, scared to death or worse, it is that gun they notice, not some unmet hunger or boyish charm. I have already been in negotiations over seeing the Johnny Depp movie and I know It Is Coming. I hope that a little of its violence is not good-natured and balletic, but nasty and scary. And I hope that somewhere in all of that complication, people will see something that reminds them to be decent to each other.
this is a loaded topic. from the voyeuristic past of roman coliseums, where gladiators became hero's, to todays, rather pale in comparison, little moral epics, i surmise, we as a collective will, by our nature, always be just what we are, humans. it is, and always will be, just what it is.
So nice when we hear of people who set such lofty goals and then achieve them. We left out Tony Soprano, though not a movie, still........ -- my most recent fave. How could you not love such a "family" man?
Junkyard Dog,Many thanks, appreciate the thought.
p.l. waiting for pics's.
I guess Tony is a good example of what you can do with a little extra time. He is certainly human and I would suggest that he gets punished for a lot of his mistakes and indulgences. Shall we say He Lives by His Sword? Somewhere in all of this is the Big Question of whether events in our lives are rewards and punishments, random occurrences, or somewhere in between. I think the late 20th century brought about a new level of people disclaiming responsibility and fault. I certainly know a lot of people who do not want to acknowledge the role their own behavior has had in their difficulties. I believe that random trouble does strike and the least deserving often get big things, both good AND bad dumped in their lives, aparently from nowhere. But I also believe the people who preach about The Butterfly Effect ought to consider their own wing flapping as a source of personal consequences. We live in an age when so many things have become predictable and fixable. We forget sometimes that there is NOT always a rewind option and there is NOT always an immediate Cause and Effect patttern discernable and susceptible of our intervention. Sometimes, there is not even a way to Insure Against Trouble. But back to the movies. I think it has become generally accepted that historical films bear the ideological stamp of the time of their making as much as the time they depict. Somebody joked that there are a lot more longhaired men in movies about ANY time made in the 70s than there are in, say, movies made in the 50s. The anti-authoritarian mood of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid seems linked to 1969- whether it reflected those times or contributed to them, or both. But if you watch it today, sooner or later you have to say that even at 44 and 33, Newman and Redford both look like children.
The elusive and mythical HouseGuest's mention of the "old-provements" made in one of the towns that "Public Enemies" was filmed jogged my memory of a character that also fits today's bill of bad guys with redeemable qualities; that being Michael Sullivan (portrayed by Tom Hanks), the "enforcer" for the mobsters that ruled the Quad Cities during Frank Nitty's reign in the movie Road to Perdition.
The principle theme of the movie was the bond formed between Michael Sullivan and his son as they embarked on a journey of revenge, honor and redemption after their family was betrayed and murdered.
This movie was filmed in several of my favorite haunts from my past such as Downtown Chicago and the Indiana Sand Dunes; as well as my neighboring town of Geneva, IL where they "sepiad" the whole downtown and turned one of my favorite Starbucks into a mom and pop grocery store, reverted a restaurant back into a bank, and reopened the Geneva Hotel.
The film also featured Paul Newman, Jude Law and Daniel Craig. Two thumbs up.
Just watched The Departed this week. As UNromantic a look at the ugly underbelly as could be. Hated the violence, but it was a powerful antidote to all the "crime as glamorous" movies.
And since I just moved to Massachusetts, I was glad to read in the credits that it was based on a Chinese movie, not recent headlines in Boston... although it probably could have been. Sigh.
At the office right now, so here's just a list for now:
(In no particular order)
Snatch
Memento
The Godfather (the sequels don't exist)
Reservoir Dogs
The Champ
Bonnie & Clyde
Bullet
Juice
Point Blank
and of course, all the wonderful film noir from the 40s-50s
Amost forgot Bill "the Butcher" Cutting as played by Daniel Day-Lewis in Gangs of New York and eBen Wade as played by Russel Crow in 3:10 to Yuma..... different genres but I think these characters qualify with their "rational unto themselves codes of conduct". Its a brisk, sunny, summer day so I'm outa here. Be well. Looking forward to everyones list.
cuukoo1, I'll have to visit it a few more times before I can rationalize buying it for now. But the hook has been set and I doubt I'll be able to spit it out in the near future. If I do, photos will follow.
Respect to all of the greats, such as those mentioned above, including "Little Caesar," (E.G. Robinson was the classic gangster) and "Public Enemy," (Cagney had a face that you hated to love, but couldn't help yourself). But, as Dzrtldy must do, she needs to interject the lighter side of crime (since I use full-fat in my baking) and mention "Analyze This" and "...That," since how could you not love DeNiro as such an emotional mess? But, if I really go down the road less traveled and stretch out a bit, "We're No Angels" presented three of the most lovable prison inmate escapees ever created for film. (The remake with De Niro and Sean Penn was a waste, in my opinion). Humphrey Bogart, Peter Ustinov, and Aldo Ray as Joseph, Jules, and Albert, begin their new-found freedom with less than honorable intentions. But, in the spirit of any true Christmas movie, the season brought out the best in these misfits. With Basil Rathbone, Leo G. Carroll, and Joan Bennett, it's one of my favorite feel-good movies of all time.
Most people have a public face which is moral, humanistic, concerned, loving and so on.... and another self which they keep hidden which is much, much uglier. Humans want that side 'validated' in my opinion, and they use 'the media' to justify themselves to themselves 'in secret'. Every once in a while, the genie escapes from the bottle and crowds turn into mobs: the Calley massacre, Abu Ghraib, lynchings before our time, ethnic cleansings in our time, and so on and so on. I suspect that 'law abiding folks' secretly wish they were like Tony Soprano, but -- since they can't be -- drool over his amorality, envious. Ditto Bonnie and Clyde, et al, from the 1920s. It's a bit humorous (in a black humor sense) that Americans don't 'get it' when they see terrorist recruiting films on their TVs.... lots of folks around the world can't kill Americans, but they love to watch 'the bad guys' kill innocent people in the U.S. They are just like us... just like us...
If the world is 'Nottingham', I don't think that we understand that -- for most of the world's populace -- we are the Sheriff of Nottingham. And terrorists are the globe's 'Robin Hoods'.... And if the Sheriff of Nottingham declaimed at the weekly market that 'those guys are evil', would the peasants in town to sell their turnips believe him? ... Open question....
Still at the office but had another thought and it goes hand in hand with what Doc Nolan said above. We root for the "bad guy" because we want to be the bad guy. Everyone loves an anti-hero. Villians inspire & intrigue us. Villians give us the little thrill of being associated with a "dangerous character." Normal people want to know what makes the crazies tick. Websites are dedicated to serial killers and damaged goods have always sold well. It's easy to be bad because the temptation is always there, beckoning you. That's why heroes are so wonderful. These "good guys," these mythical Ubermensches, resist temptation at all costs and always do the right thing. We applaud Gallant but relate better to Goofus and despite all this, most people still aspire to be good.
perhaps, doc, the peasants aren't ignorant, just the silent majority of the vast grey matter that make the lines between the black and white so definitive.
Peter Lake: You're welcome. Not a problem if you need a friend, we can talk privately. Rings90: On Clark Street in Chicago you can still locate the theatre where Dillinger met his final fate. The g/f set him up, lured him there, then the trigger-happy Treasury Agents blew him away when he {allegedly} made "furtive movements" as though he were going to reach inside his suit jacket for a gun.....they shoulda not resorted to lethal force and had him face the music for trial & sentence, him doing 75 years without parole wouldn't have glamorized his lifestyle into heroic proportions...jmo
DZ, I notice you listed Snatch, but not Lock, Stock. Not enough criminal intent? I prefer it, though none of the featured players were big stars, yet.* Something that really stood out to me when I watched Bullitt was that scene where he is having an ordinary, ho hum conversation about blood and guts and dangerous things- and his new girlfriend walks up and he calmly stands there drinking coffeee while she is completely overwhelmed. *Ectually, Dexter Fletcher, who plays "SOAP" was already known to the cognoscenti for playing Martin Amis' protagonist in THE RACHEL PAPERS and Nicholas Rowe ( known as J, one of the pot growers) had already been YOUNG SHERLOCK HOLMES.
The Gangter life is not for me, neither is the Ganta' life. I'm afraid I'm too dumb to be a successful criminal. But I do think I understand the attraction...DANGER! EXCITEMENT! ROMANCE! MONEY!!...see it makes more sense if you spell it out like the big headlines in an old time movie trailer.
My paternal grandfather was in a few gangster movies in the 30's, always small parts as the "heavy"...which is ironic because he was tall and thin, definitely not what I would describe as heavy. When he died in 1935 E.G. Robinson was one of his pallbearers, so you'd think I'd have to pick one his films but my all time favorite gangster movie is...
OSCAR
If you've seen it, you'll understand, if you haven't...WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!? RUN, not walk, to your nearest movie rental place and get it immediately! Nothing funnier than a gangster going straight and a couple of bumbling feds on his tail.
Stoney...I have more than a few receptionist quips/questions/general stupidity to share when I have more time. I understand you've been missing my rantings and ravings ;)
The course of true love runs this way, in reality: you love him and he knows you do, really and truly, when you sigh (twice), roll your eyes (likewise), droop your shoulders in silent submission when your true love phones, saying "Hey (he meant me), they're showing a triple feature at the auditorium this Saturday night, all three of Clint Eastwood's spaghetti westerns, starting at midnight -- whaddya think?" He didn't really want to know what I thought. A triple feature of A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly required no thought on my part, I didn't want to go, but he was my True Love, and for him I could endure 3 movies where a cute, but seriously unwashed bad guy-good guy says not one word but his message gets through loud and clear to every Crook cigar smoking guy in that auditorium. Oh! the testosterone runneth over, and the man with no name became less a character in a film than a destination for my True Love and all the college guys in that audience that night. ...And in the years that followed, these young guys got up every morning, dressed like Brooks Brothers, rode the train into their city careers, and carried a brief case -- but in their minds' eyes, wore a poncho, rode a horse, and carried a long gun in pursuit of justice in the wild, wild West. ...Flash forward many years: In well appointed 100th floor offices the world over, behind antique mahogany desks, sits my True Love, or yours, and on certain days, just beyond the tilt of his Mont Blanc, he can see Lee Van Cleef across the room, hand on his holstered gun, waiting for High Noon and the showdown with my True Love. ... There's an outlaw in every man. Long live that outlaw.
more on the honor rollbravo!!!!!!&! park4....bravo!!!
Nachista ~ PLEASE do not forget to include the Grave Side ? in your receptionist ravings. That one really did make my week :)
Park-wonderful, really honour roll material.
GB Shaw said "I never resist temptation because I have found that things that are bad for me do not tempt me."
And that answers for the fact that I was never really attracted to the bad boys. I just always thought they were asses, and stayed away from them. This limited my social life somewhat in school, but I was a bookish sort anyroad, and undismayed thereby. I was content to wait for a gentleman under development to cross my path, and amazingly, a few did. I felt vindicated, but still...the movies were good.
Shaw fascinates me-arrogant but dead on. Here's another that pertains to today's topic. Keep in mind that he never flinched from including himself in his assessments of our weaknesses:
"Your weak side, my diabolic friend, is that you have always been a gull: you take Man at his own valuation. Nothing would flatter him more than your opinion of him. He loves to think of himself as bold and bad. He is neither one nor the other: he is only a coward. Call him tyrant, murderer, pirate, bully; and he will adore you, and swagger about with the consciousness of having the blood of the old sea kings in his veins. Call him liar and thief; and he will only take an action against you for libel. But call him coward; and he will go mad with rage: he will face death to outface that stinging truth. Man gives every reason for his conduct save one, every excuse for his crimes save one, every plea for his safety save one: and that one is his cowardice. Yet all his civilization is founded on his cowardice, on his abject tameness, which he calls his respectability. There are limits to what a mule or an ass will stand; but Man will suffer himself to be degraded until his vileness becomes so loathsome to his oppressors that they themselves are forced to reform it."
Ouch...
WT: Great Stuff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DOC NOLAN: I believe that Robin Hood was based on the life of the very real, Sir Robert DeVere ....... (Altho' I think Maid Marian was actually Franklin Pangborn Sr.)
OLIVIA: DAYUMMM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Park4: Olivia's analysis was clear, concise, and accurate. 1st rate material....Bravo! Don't forget, however, that there are many who carry a firearm who are merely accurately assessing the risks inherent in doing their daily jobs, they may be affected by the concrete jungle, but they are anything but predators. Olivia: Good 4 U 2, girl! Cowardice, guilt, shame....things that are hard for any person to successfully put behind themselves. But we are all composites of sometimes conflicting parts, mosaics, our conflicted inner selves trying to cope with a difficult world.
That funhouse mirror notion: What's wrong is with the mirror--the deliberate design flaw of the mirror, not the person who's looking into it. ...I think there's vicarious pleasure of some sort in watching good guys do bad things, but that it's more than that, that if you gave most people a gun they'd kill someone or something and commit other attrocities, I just don't think so. I don't think most people have an innate instinct to kill, other than to protect those they love. ..Or themselves.... And the image in the mirror is a funny image, like a visual simile, but no closer to the truth than that...
.... I'm less sanguine than you are, PARK4. Maybe I've seen too much.....
all ya'll will have that perfect experience soon enough,perhaps..........the beauty of the living lie's in that this (whoa...be..me..) is the human experience, in all of it's flawed, imperfect glory. how boring would it be to watch a zen movie of nothing but ohm's, for 96 minutes. spirtual, even religious to some...but gawd, 10 seconds, much less a lifetime of netural colored perfect harmony.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. it is, it is, exactly as it is....beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so i'm told...so this eye see the beauty in the likes a man in all of his persona's...beastly beast they can be.....yum yum. ohm's to those that live in total harmony and walk on water...
Hey Park 4, About once a month I announce to someone "SEE, this is why I don't carry a gun. If I had shot everybody today I wanted to, the cost of ammo would bankrupt me." And then, for another few weeks, All is OK. Since I do not actually tote one, I don't have to worry. I keep a small one near my bedside and I figure anyone macho enough to take the first bullet deserves a second and a third. I read recently about an anti-gang initiative that worked something like this: They round up all of the guys and tell them "We know who you are. Either play nice or we will arrest you all. Immediately." and it is the immediacy and certainty of the consequences that seems to make the difference. True, other components are there to remove incentives, etc., but the big deterrent is knowing It Will Happen Soon. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/22/090622fa_fact_seabrook
Maybe, Doc. Probably. Probably definitely. What you've seen would bring me to my knees, I'm sure. I've travelled too far two times in my life, and I was way out any zone where I could find comfort, and that was enough for me. I put my hands in the air and said "I give up." And I did give up showing myself things, and so now I am at peace...not exactly sanguine, but close. Mostly just at peace. That's where I am and need to be.
WOW, you guys...what great writing today. The visual imagined universe in print. This,I believe,is what this medium can do best. I do not go to many movies, and had, in the past, found the movie characters and events like 'coin of the relm'; in as much as they are used to describe people and incidents, but were lost on me,having not seen that common movie experience. The concepts of good and not so, however are so universal as to be understood by any culture,anywhere,anytime. Courtiers, and jesters, were the entertainers of record, and the stories they told were tilted to the bent of the teller,or the event's eventual perceived outcome,though the historical record may have been indeed,different. I think the study of good V. not so, will continue to amaze and delight, and terrify, as to how close it came, or how close we are to commiting an equally bad/good act.
Perhaps we should agree to ALL carry guns. However the only choices available would be:
1. Guns tha shoot projectiles with suction cups on the tips;
2. Guns that squirt water; or
3. Guns that "shoot" out a little red flag with the word "bang" on it in bold contrasting colors.
JYD, or,at the very least, teach everyone how to aim,and shoot at what they aim for. The 'collateral damage' excuse is devastating; just yesterday in Chicago, a youngster had the misfortune to be in his own bed,at the wrong time, and was met by a gangbanger's driveby bullet.That kid should have known better than to be in his own bed,thinking he was safe. Right? On the other hand, 69,735,421 gun owners did not shoot anyone yesterday.
JYD, or,at the very least, teach everyone how to aim,and shoot at what they aim for. The 'collateral damage' excuse is devastating; just yesterday in Chicago, a youngster had the misfortune to be in his own bed,at the wrong time, and was met by a gangbanger's driveby bullet.That kid should have known better than to be in his own bed,thinking he was safe. Right? On the other hand, 69,735,421 gun owners did not shoot anyone yesterday.
I just want to make it perfectly clear I wasn't making an anti-gun statement up there,I was just saying what I wouldn't do. I simply don't think in terms of killing someone or something; violent death I've seen and I want no more part of it. I would kill if I had to, to protect myself or my own. But in no way was I saying what everyone else should or shouldn't do, should or shouldn't feel -- nothing like that. Not a pro or anti gun statement, uh uh, no way. Okay?
Re: How to aim and how to shoot what you aim for
In addition to this, I think we should follow the sage advice of one Chris Rock and make guns very inexpensive or just give them away with in-store purchases. The catch is, each bullet now costs $1000.00 USD. I'm sure people will think twice before pulling the trigger.
At the very least, it may cause a new age of swordplay. Imagine, knights and ninjas, battling for supremacy in the Concrete Jungle! As for the hunters, it would be back to bows and spears. And while we're on it, any war fought may just end up resembling something out of a Tolkein story.
Just think, we could get real pirates again!
I am betting GOOD money on PARK or IVAN to get more bling today. (and Michael for yesterday) If i get them both right..Im going to Vegas!
Dear Lord, help me to break even. I need the money. ~Author Unknown
...(Penn, keep your money where you can see it)
You know those stickers that say Coexist, only in cute symbols, as if that were all it took? I figure I have my opinion on gun control and others have theirs and I don't mind and I hope they don't. I am not looking to convince anyone and I don't expect to be convinced. And I am certainly not offended if anyone disagrees. The thing is, and I speak from some experience, many people bent on violence will accomplish it with whatever means are at hand- sticks, knives, frying pans, rocks, cars, gasoline, toasters, land-line phones. Keeping guns from them will not help. Another group, though, remind me of the Yanomamo Tribesmen, who formerly attacked their enemies with stone axes, which hurt, but weren't terribly effective. Later on, they got shotguns, which WERE terribly effective. Those are the people who probably should not have guns- they act too quickly without really considering the consequneces ( oops, there it is again) of their actions. Col Zev, I know of at least one case where a couple of brothers WERE fighting with a Ninja sword- that ended with a cup of ice and a trip to the emergency room. And cost? Well, Crack Cocaine costs $10 a hit and people who don't even remember their last job still buy it. My understanding is that most of the guns "on the street" aren't bought in stores by their ultimate users. Price is not connected to MSRP for those guys. But Stoney and I remember at least HEARING somebody talk about having to be a good shot, since a shotgun shell cost a nickel and you weren't sent out to make noise- you were sent out to bring back some supper.
After spending some quality time butchering my hedges, I think they should ban power tools. Maybe ban the growth of hedges too 'cos I'm convinced they both conspired against me and I've got the cuts and bruises to prove it.
When it comes to acts of violence, there is a root cause behind it all and it isn't something you can buy or steal. The tragedy is that it has always been there and we still can't cure it.
Peace out....
....and BTW; I think all of you folks should get the honor roll today. Lot's of good thoughts and all have been expressed very well.
PeterLake, Was it YOUR neighborhood where they didn't need guns "because they inserted the bullets by hand"? And speaking of coexisting, I have been a-dealing some more with my thunderphobic dogs. Twice I have entered a room ( different rooms, 20 feet apart ) and discovered a fountain pen -sized skink hurriedly getting out of my view. I don't mind skinks ( though I suspect the second one, found in my office, was hoping to surf some reptile porn) but what I really dislike is seeing them unexpectedly, particularly whilst dealing with agitated canines. What is it Tony S was worrying about? Agita? Yeah, I got dat.
plestiodon in-ex-fricking-spectatus. http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/lizards/5lineskink.htm
Nah, we just threw them at people while making barking noises and then ran........
RoadYacht: I watched WGN evening news yesterday, like it for nostalga {home town} plus it is an hour earlier than Eastern time, so as an early riser I get to bed at a reasonable hour. The kid getting shot for sleeping in the front upstairs bedroom was beyond outrageous....
Wish the NRA would change its position as it applies to assault rifles. There is absolutely no legitimate civilian application for fully automatic rifles, most of which have 30 round banana clips....specifically designed only to mow down people w/o accuracy to spare civilians. I say this as a supporter of concealed carry handguns for people with legitimate defensive applications and who have passed gun safety and background checks. Same with hunters....don't do it myself, but the deer around here get thick as gnats around the rear end of my dog, no natural predators, and need thinning out, with seasonal and quota controls......
Thanks so much for the personal message regarding my pix of the theatre......Park4 commented as well, curious how they air conditioned things in the 1930's. Perhaps she was correct, air forced over blocks of ice & circulated...
Looking forward to all of you, my extended albeit virtual family, entertaining and enlightening me this weekend. Gonna pass on accepting offer to join snooty men's club downtown, too many old farts bragging on their financial accomplishments (money they likely married, lucked into, or inherited)....you rascals, however, are fascinating...jmo
Willie Trask: If I get lucky I snag a parking space on the street in the historical district of Civil War era rowhouses near my office. Sedentary job most days, need the exercise walking a ways to my office. Skinks are rampant if you simply pay attention to details of your environment. They live in dens accessed by cracks between stones of retaining walls separating the sidewalk from the elevated little front lawns. They seem just as fascinated by me as I am by them, the little rascals feel as though they were invisible to most pedestrians, to much in a hurry to wake up & smell the metaphorical roses.....
HI JD: I was just passing by, and I saw your comment (above) about "air conditioning" at the Biograph. What a laugh -- that had to be a real job to keep a movie theater cool. And I wasn't being facetious when I said what I did about fans blowing over ice cubes. Somewhere in my past I recall someone telling me that's what they did before air conditioning, put out bowls of ice, or in big rooms, blocks of ice, and place a fan or fans behind it to blow cool air into a room. I can't recall who it was who told me this...yes I do. It was a shrink friend of mine, she was from somewhere in the south, and that was her story one day when we were "perspiring" in her unairconditioned apartment in Oak Park. That, a fan, and sweet tea: she said this did the trick back back back in the day...who knows? She might have been telling me the truth for once, but being a shrink she might very well have been lying like a rug, too...
Park4: Long time, no sea.....lol Oak Park, as in suburban Chicago? OMG........
JD, I beieve there is a clear diff between (full) automatic weapons and Assault Rifles, which are defined by meeting a certain percentage of criteria (Quoting from Wikipedia) The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stockConspicuous pistol gripBayonet mountFlash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate oneGrenade launcherBarrel shroudDo note, FULLY AUTOMATIC is not on the list. Granted, the same article discusses varying uses of the term, but if we are talking about the famed Assault Rifle Ban, we are not talking about full auto. Full Auto is heavily regulated- you must have a class III license, which comes from the Federal Government and some states ( such as SC) prohibit civilian ownership period. One could have a bona fide "deer rifle" i.e, a gun made only for civilian use, that had been tricked out with that removable magazine and a cute stock and one would have an assault rifle. Similarly, one could have the same gun WITHOUT modifying the stock and have just as dangerous a multiple round firing capacity. But in either case, without some serious monkeying, it would not be full auto. I am sure you didn't want to get technical- I agree there is very little utility in civilian ownership of a full auto weapon, but there is not a whole lot of practical utility in owning a Hummer, or a Cigarette boat, or 100 pairs of Manolo Blahniks. There might be people who think 20 pairs of pointy boots in my closet is too many. Wishing all and sundry a safe and satisfying weekend.
And thanks for the skink lore- I believe mine got tired of hiding and ran around behind me while I was looking up assault weapons.
Willie Trask: Once again my meager knowledge is trumped by a virtual friend. You are precisely accurate, I have a bad habit of comingling my terms on the "little stuff" when {merely} trying to make a point to an audience that frankly is usually much less sophisticated. Dang, now I am going to feel downright illiterate, my August Soldier of Fortune magazine is sitting on the table near the study, and I am shamed into embracing a recent stranger in my house...humility.
I can't really think on the topic today. I'm sorry everyone. I just flipped over to CBS to learn that Walter Cronkite has died at 92.
He was the defining journalist of the 20th Century. Long before all the screaming heads, the cable crap, and 24 hour news blowhards, Walter Cronkite gave us the news of the day.
With him passes real journalism.
It's that Oak Park, indeed, JD. Home to old Ernest Hemminway [sic], and that rascally Frank Lloyd Wright, and 120 original Prairie Style homes -- as well as a large artistic crowd of wanna be and actually are writers, photographers, painters, a lot of up-start literary magazines. My shrink friend was helping me define Zelda Fitzgerald's various psychological afflictions one hot summer. Maybe it was the heat, but we were pretty much unsuccessful with our Zelda endeavor. .... ...But yeah, I'm from Chicago, originally. Small world, JD, ain't it though?
I just heard that, too, Michael. I agree with your sentiments. He has been missed, and he will be missed, terribly. He brought us a lot, and he hasn't been equaled. Rest in peace, Walter Cronkite.
Assault rifles? I've always known guys who brag about making their guns full auto. It's not rocket science. When they start talking about the rocket launchers and tank killers-that's kinky, guys. And the Black Talon loads, and so forth. What is UP with that?
And while I'm ranting, how come I never see a skinny young guy on a Harley anymore? Or a medium sized middle aged guy? They're always old fat dudes with grey ponytails and bald up top-a real hot look, I tell ya. I know two ladies who ride-both seriously obese. Is that like a requirement now?
Just sayin...
It's fun to watch Johnny Depp ACT like a bad guy. I melt when I see him being a GOOD guy dad with his kids. Give me a sweet man with an edge any day. I am leaving the bad boys for the young...
OLivia..... That's why the come standard with the big seats... http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=harley+davidson+blues&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3RNFA_enUS268US268&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=piRhSpeGI5_FmQeZgvWrDw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4#
Olivia, perhaps the lean & lanky younger guys simply cannot afford the Harleys.....think about paying sticker plus $5K and waiting a year and a half to boot, with the sticker big enough to buy a Hummer. So the older outta shape guys now have discretionary money, albeit only memories of their youth, their bodies having gone to seed? Just a theory. The guys that swagger around, spicing up their vocabulary with the 100 fashionable terms of paramilitary high fashion? Frankly I think there is something seriously missing with their PSQ {personal satisfaction quotient}...they are overcompensating for a shortage of manly release elsewhere, jmo.
Park4: Damn, I remember sooooo well the artsy funky community of folks that corporate America would probably label as misfits, haunting little makeshift coffee shops, and then there were the drop dead georgeous Frank Lloyd Wright creations......and I remember one Spring in particular, being in love.....remember love? Come September, unfortunately more changed than just the leaves, but wow.....no regrets, no way...
i know lots of ladies who drive really nice cars, carry pretty designer purses, extremely well educated, that are seriously obese, don't mention the suits with their coat jackets stretched around they're enlightened well educated bellies....olivia....you may not be in the right low-cal to see the men on their iron horses, they usually ride away from the city. you really shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, some of those obese ladies are very kind souls as are the middle aged guys.....have a flat on the side of the road, see who stops.....even if you have road side assistance and on star.
I've been busy today, so haven't read everything, but is this turning into an anti-obese people place? I certainly hope not.
just an out-of-the-blue FYI........
The TCM channel is featuring a "Ma & Pa Kettle" Marathon as I type. Seems like a nice segue to the weekend don'tcha know.
OH! I'm at 50% count it 50%!!!
Park4,yup,ice. Pullman train cars,remember how they look? There was a little dog house looking affair on the roof,full of ice(which was harvested from frozen lakes,and kept in caves,and covered with sawdust,and transported under that same sawdust)and as the train sped down the track,air rushed thru and passed over the ice in that little doghouse,and cool air cascaded down from vents in the ceiling of the train cars. Pullman made a fortune from that, and built a company town south of Chicago that still exists.The Pullman hotel was a National Landmark.(I think it burned once,almost completely,and they had no,or few restoration funds). Movie theaters had a similar affair, and you may remember those vents in the floor,(school auditoriums,,too) where ice chilled air was forced up by the removal of hot air at the roof via large "squirrel cage"fans. In the south,they did more or less the same thing by having a ring of gas jets, and a fire was lit in those cupola skylite windows,a small flame,just enough to make heat, and the hot air rising caused a cool breeze to come thru the ground floor windows on windless nights. Amish people did the same with a thick stone wall facing south;at night the warmt was let out through the roof vent,pulling in cool air to replace it from the ground floor windows. Mr Carrier was the mastermind behind our modern day A/C, which hasn't changed much in theory since.
I commented on body type only, no mention of personalities. Do not read more into my remarks than are there, please. I have many friends and relatives who are overweight (the two fat ladies-what they call themselves, btw-are dear people and old friends), and I work with patients all the time who are ill from it. Obesity is a HEALTH issue, not a cosmetic issue, or a comment on character. I also have friends who smoke, but I do not condemn them for that, however concerned I may be for their health.
My apologies. I am . . . not a small person.
No need to apologize, Michael. All are welcome. I believe my comments were taken on tangent, and not at face value. I am certainly not anti-anything, except for jerks, and we are happily free of those for the nonce...
I have vivid memories of life before air conditioning, sleeping on the screen porch and hoping for a breeze, squirming upon the sticky sheets, listening to skeeters the size of hummingbirds trying to breach the screen to get at us. During the day, we would soak ourselves with the hose, and sit before the box fan to get a bit of coolness, dissipating as the water dried, not caring that we were wet and bedraggled. And then, the day we got our first window air conditioner-what a revelation! We'd run outside and play as usual, but then when we got so hot we were dizzy, dash into the house and sit in front of the magical box blowing cold air, marveling at our good fortune, wishing there was one in our shared bedroom. Fans in the hall blew the cold air around the house, and life was good.
i'm just glad you said harley, not honda. my brother, who's a peeper on here wood'a had a cat.
One of the things I like about this medium is that anyone reading will see the HEART of the writer.
This 2-D vessel of information is such a cool factor, when compared to the 30-D face to face world... where brilliance may be wrongfully dismissed...and mediocrity may be wrongfully engaged.
I hope somewhere....Cyrano de Bergerac is smiling.
45 years a rider, but my poor wife can't handle the ride in her stage4, so,hence, a road yacht,towing a lil' 4x4. Aint the same, but good as....and off roading,and wipers, a +
Ha, or 3-D.
*tongue firmly in cheek* HONDA? Those Jap bike riders got no cojones, according to the dudes in my crew, puttin' around on their little tricycles and those big dressers with electric evathang...Hondas is fer granpaws goin' to Cracker Barrel or daytrippin' CPAs pretending to be Brando.
*waves at cuckoo's bro* Hey, JUST KIDDING!
Anybody need a free kitten?
PENN: Sorry to disappoint ... I have learned, and been reminded more recently that this Krewe, which has my utmost Respect, by and large thinks and operates several plains higher than Redneck Texas Jew-Boys that are so far to the Right of John Wayne that any farther right and they'd be on the Left, and so I have decided to simply observe and learn for a while ... A little too much for me to try and be a Blingon right now ... But, I appreciate the mention .......
Y'all have a safe and pleasant weekend .............
Owwwwe Li i i vvvi i i aaaah, did you ever talk through the fan? JD, Please do not worry about who knew what when. I had to look it up myself. And I believe the technical definition does not match the legislative one. Your SOF pals would laugh at the wimpy legislative idea of an assault rifle, but it was not at all funny for several years there. I believe even here more of us wear our prosperity around our middles than our health knowledge. I admire those whose figures are still girlish - or girl attrracting. I think we had a little waistline disclosure once before and mine was on the um, substantial side. Correction- I admire the girlish ones and envy the girl attracting ones. I do think, though, that for those whose pocketbooks have outpaced their resolve, it is much easier to spend a little more on the nice toys, accoutrements, finishing touches, etc. instead of sweating off the accretion. Me, I don't have either one. But don't we have at least one fellow eyester who is a serious WW aficionado? Kudos to you- Swami? Doc? Somebody from that neighborhood.
Ivan, I'll have a pleasant weekend...you too...truly! (I'm not entertaining the remainder of your letter...put that in your hat and smoke it.)
speaking of smoking guns...
Andy Taylor: What are you doing?
Barney Fife: Gun-drawing practice, ten minutes every day. If I ever have to use this baby, I want to teach it to come to papa in a hurry.
Cuukoo...great one!
thank you! penn, i love andyism.
Jalopkin: Your comment struck me: ".....any farther right, and they'd be on the left...." And, here, I thought I was the only one who said that.............and got that. Have a lovely weekend, everyone.
thank you olivia, for the wave to my, older brother. (way out there in california, on santa barbara beach, that'd be you!) bet he's had a litter now. i'll be hearing about it.
DZRTLDY:
Been hearing that all my life, as I come from a long line of SuperUltraRight-Wing, Gun-Totin Conservatives ... Only thing we seem to have missed is that we're not Bigots ... We have likes and dislikes just like everybody else, but none of them for the wrong reason ...
....... and here I said I wuz gonna shuddup !!! .................
I'm booking a flight to Vegas! Lawdy, I LIKE being spot-on. But even more than that.... I LOVE the company of truly GRAND people! You guys are amazing! "How lucky can one girl get?'"...indeed!!!