The Sins of the Flesh

Alas and alack, methinks the heady topic of lust is often brought to the fore (skinned of its social taboos) by those who lack a lass.   One should never turn to a "revealed" religion when the topic of human nature comes up, since they will happily admit to being enemies of human nature - often of humans, and nearly always of nature.   Lust is nature's way of making sure there's always more humans.  But we're not animals.  Keep those ponies in the shed until the requisite rules are followed - in plain view - the hand holding, the dating, the exchange of jewelry, the "Honorable Intentions" lecture from the appropriate male paternal figure, and once it's good and done, then CHUCK IT ALL OUT THE WINDOW.   Take a DaVinci Moment with me, and ponder the meaning of lust.  I think the very concept of "lust" as if it's a crime of some sort does nothing else quite so clearly as to reveal its ethical origins in the perservation of private property.  That's to say, don't cast a hoary eye on the young daughter of that rich fellow over there, because you won't enhance the value of his holdings by shagging her rotten in the stables - and he wouldn't give you permission anyway (but <i>she</i> might). I take Elton John's point of view on lusty urges... People should feel more free with themselves.  We're not property, we aren't graded on the frequency of our steifens (quality, maybe, but quantity?  NO WAY).   Lust, therefore, is a Red Herring.  In the church's view, any sex that is not sanctioned by their authority puts one at risk of "eternal damnation".  The object behind calling "lust" as a deadly sin is to legitimize the legal sale of sex in the form of one's children and or spousal attentions - and that's just gross.  The idea of "lust" is a leftover medieval, throwback, lowbrow, phallocentric power structure that needs throwing out along with its nasty fungal bath water.  

Lust is good. It is to love what foreplay is to sex. It makes it wayyyyy better.

I should think that if Thomas Aquinas thought Lust, "an Unnatural Vice" he was either doing it all wrong or he really needed to re-evaluate what constitutes natural and what does not ... It seems to me that Lust is indeed a most natural condition to suffer, if one's appetites are normal and his senses work true ... perhaps Uncle Tom, should have stood in his cabin, then ....... Trusting upon the Word that all has long since been bought back for us, and we along with it ... does not necessarily give one License to be indiscriminately promiscuous or wastefully lustful, added to the fact that we are all different and what may be excess for one person might just be getting started for another, and/or the fact that some of us do not learn as quickly as do others ... but surely the experienceing of Life and the tasting of the Universe, gaining us knowledge and wisdom cannot be condemnatory by its own nature, else why would The Creator have given us such capacities, and why would such things be    soooo    damned    GOOD !!! I rather imagine that it all boils down to one's Attitude, and what is correct, according to the Designer's Intent, and our ability to appreciate the Lesson(s), especially if we should (have to) repeat them a time or ten until we get them right ....... Reminds me of my Uncle Hymie who once told me the difference between a Teacher and an Airline Stewardess was that one says, 'You're going to do this over and over again until you get it right' and the other says, 'Place this over your nose and mouth and breathe deeply ...'

I cheerfully admit to being a sex addict (and have been since I discovered it when I was about five!).  I also a food addict, an air addict, a fluid addict, and a relationship addict.  Bring on the babes, bagels, mountain breezes, lemonade, and friends....

I think lust- the bad kind- is another form of covetousness or theft. It is the taking of love without the giving of love.  IJ, you hit on many good points, as do Olivia and  Isles ( Is it a surprise that all three of you should speak authoritatively on lust ?)  I  expect when birds and bees do it, it has everything and nothing to do with lust. Everything, if you figure lust is another word for pure chemical attraction- and nothing at all if you figure that Lust is a violation of the difference between us and the beasts.  I sure do hope it was our Creator who made it feel so good. But I also expect we can all name other things that feel good but can be turned bad.                                                                                                                                    The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Well, actually, that's the problem. The flesh is pretty darned strong. If we don't get in there with some spirit, if we don't put some kind of meaning behind it, love commitment, respeck, we're just a bunch of hormones.

Incidentally, we go from peanut butter and jelly sandwiches when we're young to multicourse dinners in French restaurants.  We also go from water to triple venti decaf lattes.  So too with sex (if we choose to do so...) I'll leave the rest up to your imaginations....

i am addicted to living life with all of it's beauty and texture! i am but having a human expierence, the spirtual being i am.

    
"And I now, willingly, yield the floor to you."

Kind of you, Peterman, but personally, I'm holding out for at least a mattress in the back of a '58 VW Microbus parked on just the right slant.




A young dog park couple called, Sunday, to say that they and a litter of boxer puppies would be near town on a visit if I cared to stop by.

I did and in a large cardboard box layered with shredded newspaper (a good idea if not as good as it was when ink actually had antiseptic qualities) in the back of a huge van, were five seven week old puppies and a little boy named Angus.

Four fawns, one brindle and a black haired blue-eyed lad who was crestfallen to see me swarmed over and given the full facial treatment.

"They don't do that to me," he complained to his dad.

"Maybe," explained his father, "Your face is too new."

"Oh-yeah," said Angus, placing a little hand to my cheek,"It's kinda like Grampa's cottage: You doesn't has to take off your shee-yews."

Okay, I'm content to let a puppy be the judge or a baby: They love me back as well.

Maybe after Thursday's botox treatment to 'quieten' a raging facial tic, I will appeal to only half the puppies and babies or all of them, only half as much. I will let you know.

Meanwhile: Come on by, you doesn't even has to wipe your feet first.
 

A LUSTY good morning to you all!!!  If I'm lucky,  tonight my wife's mother will be on call for babysitting so that my wife and I can go out on a date.  And we'll probably go park the car somewhere before we come home.  That's just so much fun...  

Without lust, how would anybody in the modern world get married?  I realize that there are still places with arranged marriages, but for your average single person (i.e. me), without a bit of lust, there wouldn't be much hope of filing a joint tax return. 
 
Of course, it doesn't have to be sexual lust.  A beautifully curved body can easily be offset by an ugly mind.  More and more, as I creep into my 30s, I find myself lusting after stimulating conversation and intellectual compatability more than the traditional. It isn't that the traditional isn't there . . . but I'd rather wake up with someone I can talk with than someone whose idea of mental stimulation is finally finding Waldo.

Words to describe lust that "hits" when love is clearly part of it transforms poets and artists. I hope you all have experienced such wonder in one form or another. I still cant fathom the words to describe that pleasure.
Lust without love isn't all that great, AND it only can lead to trouble for me. Im approaching fifty and desperately want it to just go away. Will I outgrow this deadly sin? I don't have the love and want to be relieved of evil lust when I go out among temptations. Does it go away?????

Interestingly, homosexuals and women are exempt since the stipulation is for heterosexual men who lust (in their hearts or elsewhere) for women. Whew!

Happy Birthday!  I think it's Jonathan's birthday and I know it's my Lauren's birthday.....  it's Hiltler's birthday too but he's just an evil wanker and they don't make cards for the likes of him. Peace out

Geezus, Christ, lighten up!

AND it's Daniel Day Lewis' birthday, who would play a GREAT Hitler, but I think he would play an especially great Hitler if he depicted the last thirty seconds of Hitler's life.  Lewis has that perfect tragidian actor's ability, so much so, I bet he could actually invoke feelings of pity for that squibbly little monster.  But I digress.  Indeed, today I embark on my 43rd year.  What will it hold.

Well I agree with dkincheloe, and might add that those laws were written for a male controled society. Lust is really only "LUST" when coupled with jealousy and wantoness.

Life without lust would be pretty lackluster. 

I have to think that the lust I have for my husband isn't a sin, but a very good thing.

WILLIE TRASK:
 
No Surprises ol' Bud, just the results of having experienced a long life, made to seem longer at times by instant situations, and becoming curiouser and curiouser thru the years rather than smarter, daring NOT to regard one's options less cavalierly ... Not so much a sense of adventure as it is an eight year old in me that has never even sniffed the concept of growing up ... Endless Summer sans Surfboard ... The majesty of Olivia's Literary efforts and of Isles' Commentary conciseness makes me think that either of them could draw upon History from a myriad of avenues and contribute quite well on just about any subject, stopping short of full disclosure True Confessions ....... Everybody on this Site puts me to think, and I consider it a great chunk of fortune that I found this Krewe .......

i know lust isn't gender oriented, nor is it just a human expierence, it's observered, if aware, in every form.  a tree lust for the light of the sun thus drowning the light of his son.  etc.  plants do it, it just a different form. 
 
now back to that human part, wow! lust is grand for without it we'd be lustless.
 
going out to compete with that oak for some of it's sun.  just comes around once a day.

the enlightened man made lust a sin, put it into verbage.  primitive man as well as the rest of his animal kingdom lived for it or died.
 
back to the ole which came first.  like a big wheel. round and round.
 
 

 
Jesse S.

I've tried but HE is always watching.

Geezus

lust (today's point of view, up for change since i'm a woman) is like southern tea.  it's got to be sweet.  some don't like sweet tea, that's fine, but  also there is a point where it can get just to damned sweet and it makes you not want that particular glass anymore.
 
balance.

Lust is by definition a phenomona of the material (flesh) world.  He who considers himself solely as an egoic mind would naturally find lust as a means of self gratification, without regard to the other.  In the spirit world where mankind finds a sense of connectedness, lust gives way to a higher consciouness.  Hence the question asked is; are these animal instincts I have right now all that I am or am I really part of the ebb and flow (love) of that that moves between me and my mate.  If the answer is yes then no, then you are in for exercise that may cost you more than a few pounds.
 
In my world lust brought me and my mate together.  Love holds us there.  Lustful moments with each other reminds us of our love for one another.  And to just circle back on Oilivia's comment in a relationship over time, if there is no love there is no lust.

~S~ just smiled for you,  the biggest ole brown in behind my dock, just basking in the deep.

Lust, it is or it isn't. You have it or you don't. To describe it, or attempt to define it is like trying to shape quicksilver. It's an essence of life that may allow it to be tamed, maybe even misdirected, but never for long and never in total without diminishing the soul and leaving you wanting. If it has a boundary, it is the hopes, wishes, dreams and well being of all others. I believe it begins with the very first breath and ends with the last.

the stallion that bred that mare last night must have an egoic mind, yet if you were to observe closely, as i did, there was definately foreplay involved.  he warmed her up, yet he be kicked fiercly again, again and again, until she was ready.  then and only then was he allowed to follow through.   just saying.

 
cuukoo1,

Thanks. A beautiful image but someone wrote "egoic" and my eyes began to bleed. Hep!

I walk/jog a .77 mile trail that circles a subdivision 'lake' (actually a nicely landscaped detention pond) which has about 1.7 gazillion ducks.  (Life is easy with folks feeding you Toasted Oats every day!)  Well, ducks are interesting...  Some of the 'guys' are chasing the ladies -- who uniformly run away...  Some of the guys chase the same lady and end up squabbling over 'who's the boss'.... Many of the ducks are oblivious to the commotion.... And then there are the mommas with 10 or 12 ducklings following (or not following) along.... It's interesting that ducks seem to have no shame; they cavort in full view of their indifferent compadres.... but it's really cute at how the mommas, after their intial 'encounters' show great concern about their kids, making sure the slow-poke is not totally left behind... Duck sexuality is very inspirational! 

It's strange how some people refer to sexuality as being 'animalistic'.  Animals have a lot to teach humans.... 

 
We have a sister-in-law who never tires of relating how she "saved a hen mallard from being drowned by a drake," by throwing rocks at him until he flew off.

Some day someone...

observation to the perception of conceivable inclination, that the animal reception to awareness , as to whether we learn through their actions, is up to each egotic being.
 
yep. 
 
my kite flew so high yeaterday!
 

Lust #2Lust is also very fragile, it dies quickly if not properly nurtured, it cannot sustain itself nor can it sustain life even if it is a lust for living, 'cos without the sustenance of heart, soul and body it's just a brief burst of life, a fire put out by the rain, a hunger satisfied, a thirst quenched....  or maybe it's just a bunch of whoo-hah to get folks all riled up............. all I know is I'm in the mood for something wonderful

 
My kite has committed suicide. What a relief!

i lusted for kites after yesterdays topic was unveiled.  3 stores and a couple of twinkes, (just for the cause)later i found love.  then the babies flew all afternoon.
 
i've got to go, now i'm thinking:  don't female birds choose when to fetilize.  they just store the males part until the proper time. we're told some mate for life.  who watches that long, then that leads to fish and fish eggs, and frogs,  mammals on the other hand or leg or...............daily curiosities.
 
it's that c.b.s.

 
I'm beggin' for a little CBS.


Nachista,

Who said?:

"I don't know who it was, but I know he eats corn."

Mr. Peterman, et.al.,  I assert that it is not the definition of lust that makes the subject unwieldy; rather that you raise it in the context of religion, rendering it so complex, as theological ruminations usually do.   Let us then see if we can't simplify the issue under the umbrella of science ~ the devil's advocate, in this case figuratively and literally...  It was none other than Mr. Darwin who first considered lust in the context of evolution, when he wondered about the purpose of plummage.  What role, he thought, could such feathers possibly play in ensuring their bearers' survival. By and by he realized that the lust-inducing accoutrements, though cumbersome, more than compensated for any survival risk they may, on occasion, have posed.

It could thus be deduced that one's survival quite depends on one's genetic ability to induce lust, to say nothing of his or her vulnerability to it.  Can the same be said of lust as it serves our modern purpose?  Now there, my friends, is your unwieldy discussion.
 Far more interesting than any of this, in my view, is the subject of the modernisation of religion to update our list of objectionable vices.   Why, I struggle to understand, does the Pope's new list not include racism or sexism, among other omissions.  It is this sort of lapse that serves to push me further from my present agnosticism toward the faithless pole of atheism.   Perhaps this is one of the reasons, dear Pope, that you see fewer Catholics at confession.  
 

I think it is funny that so many animals come out in this conversation.  Do they, in fact, lust?  Or just want and acquire (or not)?   The peculiar thing about sex and humans is the way that it seems to invariably take on a social consequence beyond its mere reproductive function (and the emotional/chemical bonds that result.)  Lust, as defined earlier in biblical terms, has two social consequences:  as already covered, the violation of existing property bonds ("my woman" or "my man"); and distraction from the work of the group (see Paul's letters to practically anybody.) For the 18th century, which failed to distinguish between philosophy and pornography because both had potential to undermine church and state, lust was a necessary precursor to, andanindicator of, a display of individualism and intellectual superiority.  Now, of course, lust has come out of the confessional and gone into the therapist's office.  (Sex addiction?  Really?  Consider the stories of those women brought to bed with dozens of children, most of whom failed to survive. Or polygamists.  Or Casanova.  Pathological, or merely biologically proficient?)  Who we sleep with, how often and with what trappings, are huge factors in the way we self-identify.  Gay bars.  Shoe fetish chatrooms.  Pony play getaways (which turned up on Bones a while back, and wasn't my husband taken aback.  Learn something new every day.)  I suppose ultimately, my question would be this:  why must--and when did--sex become something other than pleasant friction and a useful way to make a mini-me?  How did it become freighted with all the baggage associated with lust and pathology and identity and even art (the Kama Sutra, for instance, which I've chucked in because I'm starting to sound anti-Christian.)   Seems the older I get the less I know.  tmd   

Olivia got it right the first time!

I love lust. Reminds me that I'm alive.

Maybe I'm alone, but as I drive through cities, or fly into New York or Tokyo, I find myself marveling at all the millions of acts of coitus that it took to populate each megapolis.... What's even stranger is that only a tiny percentage of the couplings resulted in all these folks!  --- If it weren't for lust, I wonder how many humans would exist... "{Gee honey, do we really need to do that to have a baby?  I'm really sick and tired of all the wasted time and energy it takes..."  "Yes, dear, I understand, I feel the same way.  And it's really boring --- but remember we only are doing it to have someone to support us in our old age."  "OK, but let's keep it short; I have to write a letter to mom telling her we haven't forgotten our promise to produce a grandchild for her."  Hmmmmm.... a world without lust?

"Lust", she moaned, " is that fabuous white dress on pg. 34 of your catalogue in one hand and an overdue credit card in the other."
 

lust is the fantasy unfulfilled. What we desire but what we can not or should not have.

I think lust is essential to life. Love can exist without it, but that kind of love holds no true passion. Lust arises out of our desire for pleasures - whatever those pleasures might happen to be...

Lust makes sex wonderful. As long as that lustful desire is not purely selfish, cruel, or violent; as long as it is shared by the other person; as long as it includes giving pleasure as well as receiving it...how can two people truly make love without it?

Lust somehow became saddled with such negative connotations. I think, in part, because of the fear of misdirected lust and also, in part, because of the human tendency to separate ourselves from being considered animals.

"Deadly" and "Sin" are words that I believe are much too strong when describing the vigorous and excited passion that most human beings have in their hearts and minds, at one time or other, for someone or something.

Lately, I must admit to having lusted for something besides my loving husband...Cold Stone Creamery's Chocolate Devotion: a decadent concoction of chocolate ice cream, chocolate chips, brownie, and fudge. Oh, it is to die for...which I suppose makes it "deadly"...that, or the fat and calories (which I refuse to look at). And, if lusting for it is truly a "sin", I have sinned twice...pleasure never tasted sooo good...

Lust to me is not the rut, not just the heated loins, the instinctive drive to copulate and reproduce, directed by sensory stimuli, chronology, and chemicals. Lust is the neeeeed for my mate sometimes, when not even chocolate will do. Lust is not what makes me touch myself, or even fire up BOB...
Lust is how I feel when I need to take him CRAZY into another dimension of love, and to make him reciprocate. Drive me crazy, too, baby...it's a drive, yes, but on a different level. It turns me from that prim and proper teacher with the glasses into La Tigra, she-demon of the wilderness. Oh, yes...a candlelit, hair-flinging, sweating, squealing, jiggling rodeo princess of darkness, I want him to lick my skin and scald me inside and out with insane desire. I want to be handled and worked over and left for the weekend to recuperate.
 
THAT'S lust. All the rest is just porn...

Being in the psych field, I find it increasingly frustrating to see bad behaviors turned into "illnesses". Naturally, I don't like to see the real mentally ill stigmatized, but poor choices and even criminal behaviors are becoming pathologies as people choose to take less and less responsibility.
 
We can say no.
 
Three cheers for responsible lust and daydreams, but injuring those to whom we have promised committment because of urges is simply wrong no matter how you spin it.

     I guess it really depends on what passionate yearnings fill your heart. I know I have a strong lust for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in my daily existence.  Since I was a child I have always had the strong desire to write and I love books so much that I could probably live a nomadic existence in a remote area of the world as long as I could bring along a stack of my favorite books to fill my cave or tree house. I also have a passion for real licorice, not Twizzlers! Real licorice is not sweet, and is actually healthy to eat even if it is considered candy! Sexual lust seems to be the primary concern of most human beings today. You cannot pass a supermarket check-out stand without reading about the lurid details of some Hollywood celebrity sex scandal, or watch a television commercial without being bombarded with some sort of sexual innuendo involved with the selling of the product. Remember the Herbal Essence commerical with the orgasmic woman washing her hair in the shower? Having a healthy physical lust for the significant other in your life is fine as long as you truly love them and both of you are in a committed relationship.  I might be a little old-fashioned but I still believe in the words, "until death do us part."

Lust is just another word for appetite or desire. That stuff that's hardwired into our systems!Healthy lust is just another form of vitality and life force.....if you're alive, you have it.You cannot rid yourself of it!Where is rid anyway....I've been looking for that place for quite a while. I'm beginning to think it just doesn't exist.When you "pathologize" and suppress lust and other natural human qualities you get things like priests molesting boys. Now that's unhealthy lust!Now back to that mattress in the back of the VW van!ahem ahem why thank you Peterman!

 
Balls!

There was a time when, knowing that the attractive physician's assistant with a bit too much cleavage was going to ask me to: "Turn your head and cough," it was necessary to resort to mental images of my grandmother's bunion, Smiling Bob or any Billy Mays commercial. That worked.

Now, having discovered that the part of brainpower we probably share with earthworms and that part of the anatomy residing south of the fly and north of the inseam are so inconsequential to the definition of lust, I'm bullet proof.



 

How do you make love stay?
Keep passion alive.
 
Tom Robbins

Don't forget that one of the original sins was Melancholy 'til the Vatican decided it should be tossed.  I think the pope was depressed

badgirl's comment speaks to my psyche:
 
lust is the fantasy unfulfilled. What we desire but what we can not or should not have.
 
Doesn't make any less attractive-- to the contrary! And when it's at-hand. . . oy Gawd. . .

Isn't this a clothing company? Cmon!! Give women a break and focus on relating to us  as people rather than objects of your hormones. You can do it!

Jonathan Isles - Happy Birthday!
 
Peter Lake - Happy Birthday to your Lauren!
 
A birthday is the first day of your next 365-day journey around the sun...enjoy the trip and live each and every moment to the fullest, with much laughter and love.

Geez, I don't think I can look at my ham and egg's the same way anymore. I'm with Oscar; I just yield to it!

I'm guilty. I just am .... maybe it will help cleanse my soul if I just fess up.

Pam told me we might flush some lurkers...WELCOME now, new friends, to the show that never ends...

Okay un, no sheep jokes even if trask provokes you...
JI, Happy you youngster!  Peter a happy one to yours.  Yesterday I had an anniversary and we got the lust out of the way early.  No smoking is making me a little lustier when I'm not to sick.
 
A brother and daughter emailed tonight, a cousins' son is looking for pictures of the family to put in something for the dying old man.  Crazy thing here, you give a dying old man a good amount of morphine, free reign with a bottle of canadian and a couple of young ladies to serve his every need and he thrives.  Almost to the point where you want to kill him.  No never.  Spent some time with him coming back from Albany dead show.  He remains good but tired and not improving, just not going down hill.  Mother on the opposite end is charred but surviving also.
 
First dead show, in Albany was incredible.  Tomorrow is Buffalo.  Wishing I could see more. 

Gimminy-flipping-crickits. Glad Stoney warned me to pull on my knee-high barn boots before wading over today.

We love lust, don't we, though?

Confession: Been spending a lot of time in Genesis lately. That and the Psalms. That and Lewis. (So good to see one of my major lusts included today, btw.)

Why Genesis? Dunno. That's where you go when you go back to the beginning, right?

Today, I ask myself one question every day. Are you doing that to build a life or a paradigm?

And Genesis IS paradigm, right?

So I went back to take a second look and say what I REALLY think when I read it.

Barenaked truth (pun intended):

Everyone faults Eve for giving into temptation. Lust. She eats the apple after just a few hisses and passes it to her dude, Adam, who, honestly, is little more than a glorified Ken Doll. Crafted by hands to do so-and-so.

Here she is a naked chick, the only one ON EARTH, btw, with a powerful (at least ancillary) snake wanting something from her, and she barters for NOTHING. Nada. No painless childbirth. No ageless beauty. Shaking my head as I type. Gracious, woman.

So, yes, she should be faulted. But maybe we disagree as to the reason. I believe Lewis would have my back on this one. And, no, that's not innuendo.

Naked girls never value their worth. Shame.

I think I was getting to, that I found a picture from the great period of lust for money.  Will post it.  My wife swears it was Photo shopped but I seem to remember taking it manhattan.

Of all the seven deadly sins, Lust is the only one I think my life needs more of. What can I say? I'm a pretty dull guy.

Un H, You offer a guy morphine and Canadian and women, but you won't allow sheep? Baaaah.  

I think that anyone seeking enlightenment on Lust or anything else would do better than looking through semi-anecdotal historical religious texts of dubious quality, accuracy or relevance. However, it is interesting, on an occasion, to review the documents to examine how the human race became so befuddled over what is, to every other species, one of a number of natural acts. Comparing definitions among philosophies, the sole interest of which is control, seems an act of futility.

After all, Lust pales to insignificance in comparison to passion and intimacy -- neither of which are dealt with in most of the religious literature -- nor at all in our culture.

"After all, Lust pales to insignificance in comparison to passion and intimacy -- neither of which are dealt with in most of the religious literature -- nor at all in our culture."

A-freaking-men.

(Side note: Amen is a compound, comprised of a singular article (a) and a plural noun (men). Kiiiiinky. And the only reason I realized that is because I used a cuss word to hyphenate the stinking word. Huge grin. Who said God didn't have a sense of humor?)

Trask, my mother and the church wouldnt approve.  Drugs and whiskey are one thing.  The poor man is bed ridden, downstairs, hooked to a Foley.  I thank god for every day he's around.  No sheep jokes.

What up, Trask? How's your flower bed?

Missy, you need to get back with Ahab-your Ambergris Syndrome is playing up.
Wait-that didn't sound right...
Assmerger Syndrome? Now that's related to lust, somehow...
I can never remember the name.

MI, I think that Eve was wrongly placed with the burden of that whole affair.  Just another ploy to put her in her place, but here was something that befuddled men or man in that case.  The whole story doesnt add up, a talking snake peddling apples.  With out a little lust the whole christian myth couldnt be played out.  Fast forward a little and we have a virgin giving birth to a messiah.  Crazy thing is I still believe in the whole thing.  Well not all the details but it works and a little lust helps it along.

 
O~

"I can never remember the name." Proof enough for me that somebody loves us.

So, of course everyone has heard about the day God was fashioning Adam's body:

He kept asking for more and more sensitive nerve endings as he worked on the genitals. Finally his assistant wondered: "What's up Chief? You're really packin' 'em in there."

Just thought I'd like to hear him call out my name once in awhile.



 

Just as the constitutional amendments need cultural norming, so do the seven deadly sins need reconsidering. Practiced in socially acceptable ways, lus is not only not deadly but is one of the great life-giving forces within us. I remember hiking through Kathamandu and Bakthapur in Nepal, and photographing the explicit carvings with which they are covered. Sexual ecstasy as a means of grasping religious ecstasy----yes, I can see it. Lust really helps keep the planet spinning on its axis.
 
For me, the one true sexual organ in women and men is between the ears, not between the legs. The merger of the minds is lust manifest, intensified and punctuated on occasion by the merger of certain body parts.
 
Lust as denigrated in the seven deadly sins seems concerned primarily with avoiding the social disruption of illegitimate children. But lust manifest is part of our genome and proteome, and it can be no more successfully belittle than scratching an itch, protecting your eyes in bright light, sleeping when you are tired, and eating when you are hungry.

Please forgive the lack of quotes, as I thought returns/spaces would suffice...apparently that is not so. 

I think I would rather be in lust than a liberal!!!

I've been wondering all day . . . what exactly is lust?  Does it mean being attracted to someone?  Wanting to have "relations of an adult nature" with them?  Picturing them naked?  Winking at them?  I'm just not sure.  The old-school idea seems to mean simple attraction.  There seems to be some conflict of interest amongst religious types.  Religion tells us not to lust after anyone, but then it is monks who invent all manner of alcohol, the consumption of which lowers inhibitions.
 
Anybody else getting mixed messages?

Pam,Welcome back!  The neighborhood iasn't the same withoutcha!

Keep in mind, the monks that invented alcohol also had brethren that profited from selling indulgences, especially for things like lust.  Take a look at Chaucer's religious pilgrims...Mixed messages keep a community well shriven, and a friary full of cash.  As for lust...is it not simply an unhealthy desire for something...unhealthy in that it can cause danger (physical or spiritual harm) to oneself or another in pursuit of the desire?  
  

Shouldn't we eschew all deleterious behavior?

My beloved's breasts are like  twin fawns of a gazelle that feed among the lilies.  Who said that passion and intimacy are not dealt with in most major religious texts? Czech out the Song of Songs, aka  the Song of Solomon, and then there's the story of David and Bathsheba.                                                                                                                   MissIve, I planted my daphne the other day and pulled out a few handfuls of ivy. The daphne has thrived in a pot for over a year and will probably complain about being in the ground. This should be a big year for daylilies, and since there are no deer or gazelles in this neighborhood, no worry about breastlike twins feeding on them. Oh, yeah, and some Asiatic lilies, too, coming up with promising big buds.

Stoney, what's the worst part about being an atheist? Nobody to talk to during sex.

I see some new faces, welcome.
I'm packed and off at first light to NOLA and JazzFest. There, I'm sure to encounter each of the seven deadly sins plus a few new ones that even WE havn't been thought of yet. See ya'll when i return.

A gratifying Toss-Up for me today !!! Stoney and Trask both Crack Me Up !!!!!!!

OMG.....just took the quiz on the link above. Of the seven virtues, I'm "Prudence". LOL

I haven't been here in a while, and I'm not one of the literary types who wax their eloquence in public - the nerve!  Not that I don't read - I just read the wrong books. 
 
Lust: some definitions.  The occultists say that when you contemplate another person for sexual purposes, the lower chakra energy starts to reach out before any verbal or eye contact has been made.  This begins the mating process.  This could be interpreted as an unwelcome advance without an introduction.  It is true, as said in the first post, that property values had something to do with it being a sin.  Also bloodlines.  Many of the toney and upper-crust descriptions Mr. Peterman is known for have survived precisely because of such manicured pedigrees of lineage.  Romance is what a young man feels when he first perceives cologne, feminine perspiration, heat and humidity, in air heavy with the scent of lilac and crabapple blossoms at the spring dance, in the presence of a girl who likes him. Lust is the same, except with a girl who does not like him, or is busy making other plans.  Ballroom gown, or slit sarong, it's all the same.  See Mandy Aftel's wonderful little book, Scents and Sensibility.  Lust thus driveth a man to madness, rage and fury, and has underwritten many a prenuptial battle for dominance, since Eden, through Westerns to Disco bars.  "The Jungle line, the jungle line,  . . . it slithers away on brass like mouthpiece spit". Joni Mitchell, of course, who also gave us, "Come all you fair and tender school girls
Be careful now-when you court young men
They are like the stars
On a summer morning
They sparkle up the night
And they're gone again
Daybreak-gone again".  Hope it's OK to quote that! 
 
Lust used to be felt when delivering newspapers at 4 o'clock in the morning thinking of all who lay sleeping after Friday night's misbehavior.  Lilac and honeysuckle give way to cocoa mulch by moonlight and the coming dawn; to the heady smell of rain and autumn leaves, to bitter frozen lake ice winds, bitter from coal smoke, bitter from the coke ovens, shining creosote icicles hang from asphalt shingles, and the phenomenon of rail joints clicking under wheels, five miles distant, carried through the frigid air over a layer of untracked snow.  So many fur collars with lingering scent, hanging behind mirrored, cold storage closet doors in the entryways, with their snowboot companions below.  And towards an end of Winter, the bubble gum scent of Krishna Durbar Agarbatti, wafting on the February breeze, stuck in the frozen ground by the paper drop, picked up faintly a half mile away, as the rosy dawn breaks; echoing the locomotive roundhouse dense smoke plumes of the big, sand-filled iron kettles, fuming gloriously outside the Asakusa Temple palace in Tokyo, at cherry blossom time. 
 
Perhaps John Masters said it as well as anyone in his book about the British in Burma during WWII; The Road Past Mandalay. 
 
"I strolled nochalantly into the Snake Pit - the club sitting room - that Saturday evening and looked round.   . . . One of the women in the party was looking at me with an expression of utter astonishment.  . . .  She managed to control her surprise, but by then we were looking straight at each other, and it had happened."
 
Maybe it becomes more relevant when, the day after reading that line, one happens upon the most stunning creature in feminine history at "The Happiest Place on Earth", who immediately reacts according to the just-mentioned script, with a dash of fairytale princess layered on, as well.  And maybe the "tangled, twisted strands of Love" (Robbie Robertson) come full circle, when ten years after mastering one's Lust, and playing the perfect gentleman (My God - could she have been a day over 19?  The Little Mermaid's kid sister?), one receives an email from the person she reminded you of, but could not place.  Someone from college, who could have easily been her mother.  Same family first name - a name abbreviated, to sound like wine, ahead of the girl-name?  A coincidence?  Perhaps not.  Even in Vietnam, the phrase, "You break my heart" has now entered the popular idiom.
 
It is not lust when the stripper at the topless club stands behind the table next to you so the manager doesn't notice what's going on - that's kindness.  It isn't lust when the workroom supervisor in the north of the Indochine says she understands that you will remember for 1000 years if need be.  That's karma.  And it isn't lust when the Bangkok secretary who blew smoke in your face over dinner, and made you feel like James Bond says, "When you come back, call me - I go everywhere with you!"  That's fantasy.  And it may not quite be lust when Van Morrison starts into "Moondance" just as the full moon peeks over the edge of the Oakland stadium, and the girl sitting next to you teeters on the chair she's standing on, and touches your shoulder for stability.  And tells you she's not with anyone.  And goes away, and comes back with a beer for you.  That's nothing less than sheer joy. 
 
But perhaps it is lust, the daemon lust, that rears its not unattractive head when you see what you want, and you already know that it can't be had, or is already taken.  When that thought takes hold, when the desire to possess the real, the true, the unattainable, is converted from mental imagery to raging hormones and passion that drives out sleep and reason, then comes the time when one must, perforce, resort to the final pillar of the holy trinity of smoky bars, and nights afar off - song!  Wine, women, and song!  Join the Karaoke throng!  Join a band!  Knock off all of that macho s**t and learn how to play guitar! The mighty helmeted warrior dons the cowboy hat, and sings - gaining group acceptance, or playing the fool - the nightly drama unfolds its vulnerability, and thus lust departs. 
 
If all else fails, you quote something from Leonard Cohen - OK, it's from Herbie Hancock's River: The Joni Letters.  Safaris to the heart of all that jazz.  Charging.  Chanting.  Steaming. Steaming up the jungle line. 
 
The defense rests.

Thank you, John. It's nice to be back. I missed my neighbors.

Wow,  the  author  reminds  me  of  all  those  years  of  "education"  in  the  Catholic  school  system  in  Chicago.  Trust  me,  Jews  and  Italians  are  not  the  only  ones  who  have  a  corner  on  the  market  of  "motivation  by  guilt" .......  lol    Had  to  remember  to  restore  the  term  "Jesuitical"  to  my  active  vocabulary,  FINALLY  the Jesuits  {Loyola  Academy,  Xavier University}  taught  me  that  the  thing  between  my   ears  was  NOT  a  styrofoam  spacer,  but  instead  a  tool   for  analytical  thinking.  Tim  Russert,  my  media  hero,  was  right.   The  unexamined  life  is  not  worth  living,  or  to  be  more precise:  THIS  IS  YOUR  LIFE,  NOT  MERELY  A  DRESS  REHERSAL!

 
Junkyard Dog,

Russert was a hero to another contributor here- one almost as infrequent as yourself.

Personally, I found Russert's insanely persistent question: "Will you say now that you are or will be a candidate?"- annoying and nobody ever gave him an answer.

But what he and House Guest shared was an inability to dislike even the completely dislikable. A gift, that, and one borne I'm guessing of self assurance.


 

That old and familiar quote: "Christ said, I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery." kinda hit me in a negative way. After all, we were created with sexual urges that impel us to continue the existence of the human race. I've heard that quote all my life but it just now hit me as being nonsense.

I think that all religions seek to deny humanism and the pleasures that evolution has endowed us with.  religious leaders and those who pay homage to them seek strong injunctions against being human.  Not only do the deny sexual fulfillment, they often prescibe modes of dress, dietery customs and proscriptions of all sorts.
 
The greatest rule is, "Do unto others as your would have otheres do unto you."  Where in that is a proscription against lust or human pleasures of any sort?

I think the notion of trying to eliminate sins from our lives is futile. The commandments and the church's definitions of sin are really just mirrors for us to examine our lives with. They teach us that we are not, cannot, and never will be perfect enough to stand in the presence of God, unless we are justified through Christ.
Just something to masticate on today, wink.

PS, I grew up in the Roman church and have since left it for a conservative Lutheran one. I reject the Vatican's assertion that there are any sins more deadly than another. We're all damned, but I believe, saved through Jesus alone. (there - done with my armchair sermon)

Perhaps lust, like beauty is in the eye ( or maybe the heart) of the beholder. Someone once told me that the devil is God as he is percieved by the wicked. So maybe lust is just a matter of perception, or motivation.

Dear Mr. Peterman,
 
I am happy to help you out: Nothing but the blood of Jesus has the power to deliver you  from any of the seven sins you mentioned, or additionally, the seven things that God hates. That is why Christ died on the cross--it is the only way to reunite us to God and to also give us the power to resist temptation. God always, in every instance, provides a way of escape from temptation as Jesus exemplified. If we falter, we repent and we are forgiven. That means that we turn away from something entirely with our heart, mind, will and soul.
In the Old Testament, the Song of Solomon states what physical love between a man and woman should be when married, for do not awaken love before its time. So please do not use that out of context to contradict the entire chapter, book meaning. Lusting is not ok with Solomon. It was also not ok with Job in Chapter 31 in the very first verse where he recounts making a covenant with his eyes before God that he will not lust after a woman.
Christ drove out demons--demons attach themselves to those who do NOT make any attempt to resist temptation. That is why it becomes more and more difficult to resist once a person has given over to lust entirely. My advice: Turn your life over to Christ, read scripture, pray to God and pray against lust and cast it out of your life realizing that it, along with all other sins, separates you from the one who determines your eternity. To love is best. In the first three chapters of Proverbs, lust is a harlot who leads men to death. Christ leads us to life. Choose Christ. Choose life.

 
I don't suppose anything could be this simple- apart from my mind- but desire it seems to me is THE biological urge properly directed towards that person to whom you are, at least, legally if not by religious rite, connected.

Lust is that desire focused in any other direction.

I stick to my guns...

Well, I think nobody read anything that I wrote, for one thing - that's for darn sure!  But since the discussion is ongoing, Iwill contribute this.  This is not the place to get into levels of spiritual attainment, but as one who is deeply interested in what I have recently learned is called the anthropology of consciousness, one must, in kindness, try to take things in context.  What did Jesus mean?  He certainly was not the one going around threatening condemnation to the fires of hell - that's a subsequent distortion.  But at the time that he lived, there was a sybaritic tendency - this was the Mediterranean, after all - for people to misinterpret his message.  When he said, "I give unto you a new commandment, that is, to love one another", there were of course men, who would say, "Then shall I do unto that comely young maiden as I would have her do unto me?"  The old "free love" thing.  This is to say, that if you look at a woman with "nought but lust" in your heart, then it is as good as having commited adultery.  The line of reasoning that follows is this - no thanks to that murderer of northern pagans, Loyola!  - Humans are created, "just a little lower than the angels".  We are spiritual beings, not just really clever animals.  So when a procreative urge is directed at a female of the species with no regard for her spirituality,  for her ultimate destiny in the eternity of future potential, then one has set up a mindset to adulterate her purity, if, of course, she still has any left!  For those who read into this that the best cure is a recitation of scriptural commandment, else all is lost, I would rebut that it contradicts free will to live out of a book - forgiveness is ever nigh, but one must ask for it. 
 
If a woman or girl throws herself at you, guys (why doesn't it happen at age 21, instead of 50+??), and you are married, or even, presently with your wife (yes, it happens!) I say - SING!  The wine got you what you thought you wanted, the universal feminine manifests through a youth out to party - sheer joy - and you sing the praises of rock n' roll, or what ever turns you on.  plus, your wife has the car keys, right?  Wanna walk back??  Didn't think so.  There are worse embarassments in life than this - I know, because I just did it two days ago, with a fake ZZ Top beard and a cowboy hat, and it was glorious, indeed.  No karaoke - bass guitar and all.  Now we should all thank our creator for having the sartorial good taste to allow us the freewill to appreciate Mr. Peterman's offereings, for the cultured life of fond remembrance!

Right on, Olivia!  Do you have a sister?  (Just asking).