Belarusian conscientious objector jailed ethiopianreview.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.
Woodworking: What happened to the idea of making original movies? riverfallsjournal.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.
War movies, from 'Western Front' to 'Private Ryan' USA Today Take a look at an interesting article we found.
February 09, 2010
It was just a movie.
The camera rolled.
Men shot at each with blanks, but for one young actor, it was real enough:
"We lie under the network of arching shells and live in a suspense of uncertainty. If a shot comes, we can duck, that is all; we neither know nor can determine where it will fall." 

Erich Maria Remarque's words.
The movie was “All Quiet on the Western Front.”
The young actor it affected was Lew Ayres who portrayed Paul Bäumer, a disillusioned German soldier in World War I.
He went on to play opposite Lionel Barrymore as “Dr. Kildare.” Brother Ned to Katherine Hepburn in “Holiday” and practically stole the show.
But it was his next role that turned heads all over America.
Only he wasn't acting.
World War II.
Emotions were running high. These were real bullets.
Lew Ayres declared himself a pacifist, which was about the most unpopular stance you could take.
Only slightly below a serial killer.
He said he would go only if he became a member of the Medical Corps.
The military would not guarantee him that position so he declared himself a conscientious objector.
The outcry was enormous, his films boycotted. Louis B. Mayer declared, "You're through in Hollywood," and his wife Ginger Rogers filed for divorce.
During the American Revolution, conscientious objectors were widely regarded as cowards.
In the original 1789 draft of the Bill of Rights, author James Madison proposed that the Second Amendment both protect the right to bear arms and establish that "no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."
That clause was struck in the approved version.
Lew Ayres, part two:
The military finally relented and allowed him to be able to join the U.S. Army Medical Corps.
This, in turn, changed the policy for other CO's, who would be guaranteed service in the Medical Corps as noncombatants.
Ayres served three and a half years as a medic and chaplain's aide in the South Pacific, earning three silver stars.
Hollywood loves a hero, and he was one.
Twenty-five thousand World War II CO's served as non-combatant medical corpsmen and chaplains in the armed forces and went into battle unarmed.
The draft law written by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948 was Article 18—"The Right to Refuse to Kill."
Now, if everyone in the world had signed up for it, that would have been something.
HOLLYWOOD & THE STARS WHO SERVED IN WORLD WAR II angelfire.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.
A Closer Look: Conscientious Objection pbs.org Take a look at an interesting article we found.
Lew Ayres Bio tcm.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.
Allow me to preface any remarks with the fact that I served in the Army for 36 years--from 1963 t...
Feb. 09, 2010 12:16 PM
Most compelling anti-war film, besides "Strangelove"?
26% 0% 11% 11% 7% 44%
morning all!
i haven't had my coffee yet...but.....isn't military service, in any branch of the united states by choice now........is it so elsewhere?
java kicking in....i guess now we have "conscientious objector" to choice, any choice other than the one deemed by the loud minority. thank god for the sheepdogs.
I must conscientiously object to the notion that Ballad of a Soldier is an anti-war movie. Rather, it is a poetic glorification of "the Russian people" in general and "Russian soldiers" in particular.
It is worth noting that none of the movies on today's list were made during the time of the war being faught -- or even in the same decade. They Were Expendable, The Bridges at Toko-Ri, and Coming Home were all made during their subject time or within five years of its end. This is not a criticism of the list (with the exception of the aforementioned propaganda piece). As Arthur Miller showed us with The Crucible, we can best look at and critique our own time through the lens of history.
With that in mind, I would add to the list Bruce Beresford's Australian masterpiece, Breaker Morant. I just watched it for the first time in 20 years in honor of the recent passing of Edward Woodward. He has a great speech about how the Boer War is "a new kind of war. For the first time, the enemy is not in uniform. They're farmers, they're women, they're children. Sometimes, they are missionaries." When we consider that the movie was made in 1979, the contemporary resonance becomes clear. And, watching it today, it is every bit as clear.
Gentlemen.
It's much too early in the morning for this conversation.
(west coast).
Wendy
DPR-- That is one movie I have always wanted to see, but never got around to seeing it. Thanks for the tip.( I believe Bryan Brown--- Rachel Ward's husband-- I like him & probably just mangled his name-- is in this.)
CUUKOO- could you please clarify your last post.
Another snow day--- I feel a tad bed sharky.
Destiny offers each of us those moments when we must choose to define ourselves. When we do and make that indelible albeit usually unnoticed decision we prove how complex this human experience really is. The CO and the warrior are two individual peas in a societal pod of groupthink that history has proven is often deadly and destructive.
In the poll, I'd check "all of the above" if it were offered. I'm further inclined to make the argument that "King of Hearts" and M*A*S*H and "Catch-22" and others of their ilk are compelling anti-war movies. There are too many to count.
Then there are the novels....
The only explanation I can invent for "war" is that at some as-yet-undiscovered "trigger point" of population, a vestigial survival instinct kicks in and attempts to drive the population back down to a pre-agrarian sustainable level by inducing a suicidal aggression. The things we go to war over seem to me to be transient, ephemeral, worldly, and patent pretexts for some other, deeper, darker, and ultimately inexplicable urge.
Heavy stuff, Mr. Peterman. Sitting here at my desk at work in my (unbleached muslin) Peterman shirt I have only my meager $0.02 to offer.
Good day all,
V
If we're going to talk anti-war movies, I would have to agree with Vbaker220 about MASH (even though the book and original author are both fairly pro-war). But there are a few others that I think deserve mention:
1. Apocalypse Now
2. Platoon
3. Dancing with Wolves
4. The Last of the Mohicans
5. Saving Private Ryan
Pretty much any movie that shows the harsh realities of war, instead of the John Wayne, death-or-glory, every death is relevant and dramatic style of war.
I wonder sometimes, if Audie Murphy had had more control of scripts, what would have been the result?
DPR - you are among us! Thanks for the suggestion of Breaker Morant. Sounds good.
One of the best anti-war movies for me, though it was no doubt not meant to be anti-war, is Gallipoli. Watching those Australian soldiers climb out of their trenches again and again and again, only to be cut down by machine gun fire was one of the most compelling statements on the futility of war that I've ever seen.
According to my history reading, those soldiers were acting on an order or strategy of Winston Churchill.
"What like a bullet can undeceive?"
Herman Melville, from "Shiloh"
Cuuckoo1, while military service is presently voluntary, I believe young men still register in case our government decides to reinstitute conscription. The tremendous advantage of a volunteer army ( I am told) is that they can refuse to take you. That means no back-of -the-room wisecrackers, no resentful deserters, no dissenters, ( or theoretically fewer dissenters. ) If you stop and think about it, the malcontents who populate Catch 22, MASH, etc., are usually not volunteers. Of course, any group can prove to be less hospitable than it originally appeared. I recently watched A VERY LONG ENGAGEMENT, which, together with JOYEUX NOEL, is a reminder of another time that war pivoted and changed drastically.
Percy Bysshe Shelley said it well:
"Man has no right to kill his brother.
It is no excuse that he does so in uniform:
he only adds the infamy of servitude to the crime of murder."
MICHAEL-- I would disagree on "The Last of the Mohicans", to me the movie seems neither pro- war nor anti -war-- it's just a great story about people caught up in a war & a clash of cultures. It is one of the most breathtakingly beautiful movies ever made.
Willie Trask,
Hawkeye Pierce, played by Alan Alda in the TV sitcom Mash, claimed to have been ... "hiding under the front porch trying to puncture my eardrum with an ice pick," when they came for him.
And the theme music of "The Last of the Mohicans" ("The Gael") is one of our most popular requests...
If we posit that movies are drama, and drama is art, and we agree that (as someone famous once said) the only true subjects of art are love and death, and we accept the Aristotelian (?) notion of the cathartic function of drama, then *all* war movies (regardless of a "pro" or "anti" agenda) should in some way serve to vicariously relieve the pressure to actually engage in war...
michael...it's..... dances with wolves.....he switched sides....the sides continued. time for the flask.
in fact that movie...dances with wolves...explains the reason to battle for anything. jmo
cuukoo1: My apologies, I wasn't connecting my brain to my fingers for titles.
forgiven
I can't really make up my mind as to the best anti-war movie (though, I'm leaning slightly towards M*A*S*H*). But I do agree with Michael that history is best looked at from a distance. Doing so hopefully grants us a bit more objectivity.
I'm taking a course on Ancient Greek and Roman History right now and we're reviewing the practically constant warfare that the Romans fought with their neighbors or the invading Gauls from the late 6th century BCE to the 3rd century BCE. It's giving me some insight in why people fight wars with each other and is frankly quite depressing.
However, I find that I can't think badly of my choice to serve in the Air Force in the 1980s and early 1990s. Of course, I never had to worry about shooting at someone else as women weren't permitted to be in combat career fields or active combat areas through most of that time. I also worked repairing communications equipment and would be behind the lines anyway. If I were thirty years younger and considering whether to join the military today, I honestly think that I would choose not to; not through any anti-patriotic feeling, but because there is no way that I could point a weapon at another human being and be able to pull the trigger. I was lucky in that I never had to face that decision.
It's snowing (the dry powdery stuff this time) here in western Ohio again and the university provost finally decided to close campus early so I'll be heading home at 2 p.m. Unfortunately, it was too little too late (in my opinion) given that it took me over an hour to drive 3 miles from home to campus on very slippery roads that weren't ploughed, salted or sanded. And we're expecting more snow and 40 MPH winds tomorrow.
At least we have food, water, and heat at the house that will survive a power outage should trees take the lines down. There is still ice and heavy wet snow on the trees surrounding our house. If you are in an area affected by the snow please be careful and make certain you have the necessities at home and in your car to keep yourself warm and fed. And if you have elderly neighbors, try to check on them, too.
The most compelling antiwar film, hands-down, is On the Beach. The original version features Gregory Peck, a submarine captain who was on patrol with his crew when a nuclear war broke out. Unfortunately the super powers managed to do too good of a job, eliminating each other. He is ordered to head to Australia by his commanders, before they die of radiation poisoning, where he meets and falls in love with a beautiful woman. He is sure his family and those of his entire crew are dead, nevertheless he leaves his new lover to accompany his crew back to U.S. soil.
There is a newer 2 session miniseries, staring Armand Assante, but it just doesn't quite measure up.
doesn't any one count 'Planet of the Apes?
will wereally be just throwing rocks in WWIII
hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy.
Shandonista,
I'm not sure I agree that Gallipoli wasn't intended to be anti-war but it's been a very long time since I've seen it so I would be curious to hear you elaborate. The fate of those Australian soldiers and the fate of the French soldiers in Paths of Glory (I voted for that one) are pretty similar.
Bert,
I have never seen On the Beach but I adored the book. I finished it and sobbed. Then, I gathered myself, washed my face, made a cup of tea... and, about 20 minutes later, I broke down and sobbed again.
Stoney, Thanks for the reminder about Benjamin Franklin Pierce (Hawkeye), who claimed to be named for "an Indian, a President and a stove." Apparently, if we can believe A VERY LONG ENGAGEMENT, the preferred method and means of getting hors de combat in the trenches of WWI was to shoot oneself in the hand.
RY- when I was young my friends & I would walk up to the theater on the square & we saw ALL the "Planet of the Apes" movies. I loved them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way, LA PLACE DE LA CONCORDE SUISSE, by John McPhee, delves a little into the idea of how an army manages its misfits. Like I said above, you seem to have fewer of them in a volunteer force, but anyone who has managed volunteers can tell you tales of the pitfalls of self-selection. The Swiss are ALL in the Swiss Army- that's why they need so many knives. Well, I guess it is probably only the men, but there are other countries ( Israel?) where national service is compulsory. Think of all of the busy work done by an army that can best be done by people not necessarily suited for transporting and operating weapons: first is Intelligence, but then there are various other logistical problems- food, plumbing, medicine, Quartermaster, then PR, at home and abroad, then dozens of other things. What frustrates me is not all of the things that the Army does just like civilians do, but the things in the Army which have no civilian equivalent- unless you count video gaming.
Vonnegut remarked in Slaughterhouse Five that if war didn't come like glaciers there would still be plain old death. Jung made room for all the archetypes in this Big Dance.
Allow me to preface any remarks with the fact that I served in the Army for 36 years--from 1963 to 1999. I have seen draftees, (in)volunteers (join the Army or go to jail), true volunteers who enlist for whatever reason, and dodgers who got caught. Anyone who joins "for the glory" soon finds anything but. My patrol cap is off to anyone who morally and religiously objects to the taking of life, but who is willing to serve in the capacity of preserving life, no matter how repugnant the conditions of doing so. Neither do I mind, in these days of the "All-Volunteer" military anyone who does not choose to volunteer. Young men will alwayssign up 1) to prove themselves worthy, 2) for a little adventure, 3) for the residual benefits. Young women will sign up 1) to prove themselves worthy, 2) to actually serve the nation, 3) for the residual benefits. No matter the reason, it was my job to take the sons and daughters of Mr. and Mrs. America, train them to survive and overcome the horrors of comba, and come back home to Main Street, USA with a duffel bag of war stories and all their body parts. If a medic was a CO, no big deal. He or she had to be twice as courageous under fire as their squad mates. Should military service be compulsory? No. You'll get far too many who will be disciplinary and morale problems. However, compulsory National Service is a different matter. I feel that youngsters should not be considered "citizens" unless and until they have honorably completed a four-year term of public service--military or civilian. The moment a young man or woman graduates from high school, they are allowed to choose which service to enter, and when--now or end of Summer. Four years later, they have more of an idea what they want to do with their lives, more experience for the workplace, and (hopefully) some money saved to get them on their way. Just my dos centavos...
more on the honor rollDPR - I really have no idea if the producers/directors of Gallipolli intended any message. I simply presume the movie's intent was to make money. People seem to like war movies, what with explosions and killing. Oh yeah, and the history can sometimes be interesting, too......
Perhaps many war movies, for the reflective among us, could be construed as anti-war, since most of us recoil in horror at the sanitized depictions we are shown. We must imagine what the real thing is like and if I am average, then the real thing is a true horror. I have been told that soldiers who have seen combat are the last ones to advocate engagement.
On the other hand, in the case of movies about WWII (and others, perhaps), I would suspect that most Americans, British, and French (just for a start) clearly see the justification for war.
Michael, I do agree with your five choices, though I have to say that almost all war movies for me are anti-war. Watching young people get blown up just appears to be so pointless. Nothing is ever resolved, boundaries get changed and changed again. I like the commercial that used to be on television where they showed two old men on top of a hill duking it out.....they were supposed to our "leaders".
I'd vote for On the Beach. More currently, Avatar could be considered anti-war . . .
TIG~ you succinctly sum it up. Our country would not be the great place to live that it is,with out you,and the other dedicated souls that gave their all. Monuments to the fallen seem to proliferate,lately, but I have this nagging feeling that the people that propose them gain more than the masses that do not stop to pay reverence. This country is the monument to dedication of the ideals of freedom. We as a country have participated in more confrontations in other countries with no thought of gain,merely the defense of liberty,than any other motive.Well, there is that strategic materials thing,but that is an essential to security. So again, may I thank you for permitting me to be free to say what I think, you,and all our men who have gone in those steps of Honor
I don't know if this fits since I'm alittle distracted today but I really liked "Glory".
bebe: Sorry I'm late in responding. Dang students wanted teaching.
I'm only referring to the Daniel Day-Lewis movie version of LOTM. I see it as anti-war in the statements that Hawkeye makes concerning the war (unless I am confusing those as well).
Tig... lots of good points. I only served 7-1/2 years, but civilians always seem to miss the point that military service is first of all a J-O-B. Motives vary, but it isn't all some romantic thing about serving The Nation, killing human beings, and being a 'macho dude'. War sucks and those who get closest to the most grisley stuff (I didn't) know that best :-(
As far as 'anti-war' films my pick is Richard Attenborough's 1969 classic, "Oh What A Lovely War" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh!_What_a_Lovely_War . Out of print and unavailable for years, I grabbed it (on DVD) when it was reissued a few years ago. Whenever I hear morons who have never spent a day in the military go on and on about 'serving their nation' (which they and their kids don't) I feel like plunking them down in row two and making them (and their kids) watch this film.
Being anti-war is a particularly complicated position.... Lots of combat vets hate war more than civilian 'patriots'. Some old sergeants hate anti-war folks, and others respect them for the courage of their positions. Some folks in the military would gladly turn their weapons on specific officers (and I suspect some officers feel the same about certain individuals in their ranks.) A lot of civilians -- especially young males -- glorify war but somehow never get within a hundred miles of an enlistment office. Lots of moms see nothing wrong in their kids playing with mock M-16s, but freak out if a neighbor pulls a knife on his/her spouse. Humans are simply all over the map on war. And the saddest thing is that almost no one is very concerned about the 8,000 nuclear warheads mounted and ready to go as I write this paragraph. I have a funny feeling that if 10 or 20 of them are detonated over a dozen of the world's cities, suddenly folks will (once again) become 'anti-war'.....
Aside: Am I the only one who noted that military weapon toys disappeared from toy store shelves in the last days of the Vietnam War and for several years after? I remember the horror and shock when I took my son to a toy store in the late 1970s and saw a kid with a plastic M-16 'shooting' it. "OMG, here we go again!" I thought....
Doc~play station games all seem to have some sort of violence. Those second life things..I do not know..I have never actually gone to a virtual life, mine is strange enough. Commercials on the telly show these EyE views down a barrel and cross-hairs with some enemy exploding...and then in real life we have UAV's and soldiers doing that same maneuver....
Breaker Morant was an excellent Film ... well Cast, well Acted, Great Scenery, and a marvelous portrayal of a Real and True Story ... To believe that it is an, "AntiWar Movie" is a complete misnomer, and it has certainly fooled some of the Greatest Intellects on the earth ....... The actual true-life event is a horrific example of, and the Movie a Social Statement about, the criminally stupid, deliberately obtuse and mind-bogglingly Brain-Dead Military Mind-Set ... I am a firm believer in the Military, and keeping it superiorly strong at all times ... I spent thirty-one years in the NAVY myself, and spent damned near as much time fighting on Land as I did at Sea ... What I noticed, early on, and what Breaker Morant was all about, and Harry Morant wrote about so often in his very significant and well done Poetry and Prose, was that the Power and Authority provided by Rank is often (probably MOST often) vested upon people who have absolutely no idea how to properly handle it, wielding authority like a Badge of Belonging, and a License to Get Even for all the unfairness of Life that they have perceived against themselves, whether real or imagined ... Usually, whatever madness occurs, the Military Mind-Set makes it all the worse by playing into, or playing at, Politics ....... for some really rotten idea or other ... REASON, is sorely missing from most Military mentality(not ALL) and that loss never seems to be any different or get any better ... It is especially frustrating when the Upper Eschelon among "the Brass" or even higher, do not recognize nor pay attention to what the handful of intelligent, Career Defenders have to say ... Reason, Fairness, Correctitude, and Humanity die very quickly at the hands of Martinettes, who have not the Soul, the Heart, nor the Intellect to use their Power and Authority the Right way ... and you can bet your butt that every one of those pusillanimous bastards is the kid that was standing on the sidelines swaying from side to side on one foot then the other, with one hand down the front of his pants playing with himself, sniggering maniacally, and pointing gleefully at the S _ _tstorm he just caused, and will suffer no responsibility for the consequences ... THAT, is what Breaker Morant was all about .......
Breaker Morant is a terrific film, one of the best, but as for the best, I can't not vote for M*A*S*H* because I was hopelessly in love with Benjamin Franklin Pierce.
Donald Sutherland's Hawkeye was so good, and then there was Captain "Duke" Forrest played by Tom Skerritt, who I don't mind watching either. Elliot Gould was Trapper, and between the three of these guys, it was a helluva war (anti-war) movie.
The series trumped the movie, I think, because there was lanky dangerous possibly slightly insane Hawkeye played by Alan Alda, and I was ready to venture out to find the 4077 and the character he gave life to.
That's my favorite.
M*A*S*H*
"A young man once requested me
To answer questions that are key
'Is it to be or not to be?'
And I replied 'Oh why ask me?'
For suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And you can take or leave it
If you please...
And we can take or leave it if we please."
Park4: Nice post, girl.
PARK4: M.A.S.H. is without doubt a Great Movie ....... MASH the TV show has been my all time favorite TV Show since it first came on ... Brilliantly written and well Cast ... Too bad McLane Stevenson left the Show, and that the Show(His Own Show, the Original HELLO LARRY was cancelled after six weeks) but he died within three weeks of his Show's being cancelled, and Harry Morgan was a Great Character too, and worked well in that Part ....... Best Show ever on TV .......
Two movies deserve to be mentioned. A small French gem called "Forbidden Games." And "Hiroshima Mon Amour." A documentary called the "Fog of War" was compelling too.
I would also submit "Things to Come" the HG Wells classic. It's almost impossible to narrow this category down. Probably no movie had the effect that "All Quiet" did... Then there's "Fail Safe."
Jalopkin: Nice to find something we can agree on. I'm one of those who collected MASH episodes as they were released. Actually, I first recorded them off of TV over the course of about 3 years. Then I got the first 4 seasons on Tape, and the rest on DVD.
Sadly, I no longer have a VCR . . . nor do I have the old MASH tapes. Just the DVDs.
It was sad to see McLane Stevenson leave, but like Larry Linville, there was very little left to do with the character. Neither had much room to grow or change, they were simply too set. With Potter, Winchester, and Hunnicutt, each character had somewhere to go beyond just being funny.
But I will never forget the line from Harry Morgan as Potter.
"Did I fall down?"
"No."
"I didn't think so." (all spoken while drunk as a skunk)
Sunday Nite I learned that the guy I have been seeing (MG) was told that his BF from his Army Unit was deployed to Iraq & was killed. It really has hit MG hard, as he did not reup in the late 90's because he kind of thought he may end up in Iraq due to GWB being the President. I asked him if he kind of became a conscientious objector while in the army. He kinda of laughed & said yeah I guess you could say that.
The survivor's guilt MG has actually astonishes me, maybe it's because I have never bene in the military, maybe it's because I never figured him to be one to wear his heart on his sleeve, yet I really think it's more of the fact that I guess I always felt that if you were/are in the military that death is more of a constant whether it be in war or peace times.
BF gave MG this framed print as a going away gift.
http://www2.medford.k12.wi.us:7196/~kellebr/project/curriculum/Reflections%20by%20Lee%20Teter.jpgIt It hangs over MG's fireplace. He made the comment that the guy in the suit will be him in 15+ yrs. or whenever the Iraqi war memorial goes up.
Jmr,
Good call on the riveting Hiroshima Mon Amour.
Rings,
sending a cyber hug.
Am wondering if Mr. York would have chosen the conscientious objector label had it been available in WWI? And if so then Gary Cooper would have lost out on one of his best cast film roles....
Also am wondering if Quakers & Amish are alllowed to claim to be the same in order not to perform acts of violence if drafted into the war?
I happen to love the film A Very Long Engagement yet often wondered how true the being shot in the hand "idea" was?
I thought Lew & ginger divorced because he laughed at her belief in Christian Science, but then again that's what she wrote in her book. Also if you have never seen Holiday WATCH IT ~ He also steals all the scenes he's in from Grant & Hepburn ( which is no easy feat)
DPR ~ Thanks :)
Rings: Yes, Quakers and Amish were allowed to claim conscientious objector status when there were drafts. In WWII, Quakers who were drafted worked on Government projects in a non-military capacity. I think they build barracks and things of that nature.
MICHAEL: I agree with your analysis ... the Original Characters were stunted by their "Type" and would probably have detracted from the Show had they been maintained ... Larry Linvill is probably the best example, in that there is only so much than can be developed plotwise around a snivelling chicken-shit weasel of a Mama's Boy with No Spine and absolutely NO Character ... The episode where he swiped the visiting Patient/Colonel's .45 Long Colt is perhaps the most demonstrative of his weaselness ... All TapeCarts of all the episodes for a long time, but they all burnt up, with a lot of other stuff, in the fiery aftermath of my Garage's exploding ... One day, I'll replace them, but I simply have other priorities right now, since my Bail-Out MOney was only, $1.98 ... and wouldn't cover the Postage Due .......
MICHAEL- LOTM w/ Daniel Day Lewis is the one all red blooded women adore.....
JMR- I remember when I was young my parents going to see "Hiroshima Mon Amour" & talking about it after. "Forbidden Games" rings a bell-- I know I have not seen it, but I must have read something regarding it.
RINGS-- I'm so sorry....
WILLIE T-- I had a friend a while back who was an Egyptian & they had mandatory military service.
Doesn't the Isreali & South Korea Millitary have mandatory Millitary Service for their citizens also?
When I mentioned "Forbidden Games," it was one of those art classics I saw years ago, as a "rite of passage" along with "The Seventh Seal" Etc. But I remember being affected by it as few films had affected me. So I decided to look it up again. Discovered the reviewer was a kindred spirit. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043686/
War is hell, but so is school, work, and life in general. Being a conscientious objector is a brave stance but only in the face of a morally wrong objective. It is ok to be against war of any kind, but turning the other cheek can only get one so far. If one's homeland is attacked, one should support the war. If one witnesses people being persecuted and executed for having a different religion or skin color, one should support the war. However, if the only objective is pre-emptive, that is, to avoid possible being attacked sometime in the future, one should be against the war. If one's country is convinced that their way of government is right and all other ways are wrong, one should be against a war. Americans have had it too easy as we haven't had a war being waged by an outside enemy on our lands since 1812. It's quite easy to be against war when you haven't had to fight in one. Sadly, the lessons of Lao Tzu seem to fall on deaf ears and most of march lockstep to wherever our leaders point, hating imaginary enemies, that in all reality are trying to do the same thing we are: love our kids, keep a roof over our heads, food in our bellies, and generally get by.
BTW: New post in the hidden study:
http://thehiddenstudy.blogspot.com/2010/02/puzzle-box.html
and the best anti-war novel is Dalton Trumbo's Johnny Got His Gun.
Rings: I know S. Korea has mandatory military service. One of my students last semester was Korean, and he described his experience. They have about the worst funded military I've ever heard of. No cots. No sleeping bags. Just a rolled up blanket. No hot water. Very little by way of leave. And when they get out, if they only do their 2 years (or however long it is) service, they get no vet benefits.
I find it strange that if you shoot a guy you've never met because the politicians tell you to it's called a war and it's OK ... BUT if you just go out on the street and shoot some guy you've never met WITHOUT a politician telling you to, then it's called murder. Curiously, though, the politicians (almost) never actually kill folks themselves. They always have someone else do the dirty work....
The world would be a far far better place, Doc, if Politicians had to do their own fighting.
haven't you heard? the pen is mightier than the sword- - and judging by how many pages of single spaced type...these guys are in the fight to the end
politicians, I mean
I'd rather see them whacking away at each other with swords.
Daniel makes a very interesting point. The absence of a war does not automatically equal peace. Conditions in Germany in 1938 could hardly be described as "peace". Conditions in Iraq in 2001 could hardly be described as "peace".
When I was a kid, I asked my father "Is war the most horrible thing that can ever happen in the world?" He replied, "No, it is the second worst thing. The worst thing is a boot, stamping on a human face forever." (At the time, I did not recognize the Orwell quote; I would remember it later on.) Sometimes, the second worst thing in the world is necessary to prevent the worst thing.
Michael,
There was a time when politicians did do their own fighting. Indeed, there was a time when whacking away at others with swords and winning was the surest way to become a successful politician. And the world was not a better place.