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Again.

When Doris Betts,  an award-winning novelist died recently, whose characters grappled with deep subjects like religious faith, freedom, captivity and original sin, and often compared to Flannery O’Connor (according to the New York Times) for the way she evoked grand metaphysical conflicts, one is reminded:

What happened to the serious novel?

No easy answers apparently.

Norman Mailer, in “Advertisements for Myself,” wrote that writing the “Great American Novel” against all comers was the equivalent of a 15 round fight.

He was up to it, but did he succeed?

It wouldn’t matter to V.S. Naipaul who argues that fiction is basically meaningless in capturing the complexities of today's post-Sept. 11 world.

Killing off the novel has always been fashionable.

In 1925, the year Theodore Dreiser's "An American Tragedy" was published, Jose Ortega y Gasset wrote the "Decline of the Novel."

He coined the term "razón vital," and said, in essence, the novel has to have a vital reason to exist.  

Perhaps the real reason he tried to destroy the novel is that he couldn't write one.

So what’s the story?

It's amazing with all the weight heaped on writing the great novel, American or otherwise, that anyone would attempt one.

But if someone did, would we have capacity to appreciate it?

J. Peterman

 

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64 Members’ Opinions
May 11, 2012 12:41 AM
293 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rings90 said...

"would we have capacity to appreciate it?"

My answer is No.

In the past 2 weeks I have had a customer ask for That new book she is not sure about the name of it, but it has 4 sisters & 1 dies It's popular with young girls. She happened to be looking for - "Little Women"

A local H.S. has to read Ethan Frome - The parents have ZERO clue what they are buying for their kids. I spent 25 minutes on Wednesday calming a mother down, because she needed Edith Frome NOT Ethan Frome. Just could not believe me that (Gasp) this classic was written by a Women named Edith & that I was ordering in the correct novel.

I have to admit I love asking what publisher/translated edition they need/want. Most of them just repeat the name of the author. Than we just pull a copy off of the shelf & we get told oh it's suppose to have a red,blue,pink,yellow orange coloured cover. When it comes to reading the classics the publisher/translation is almost as important as the Author.

I sort on average about 450 boxes of books a week. out of all those books, is the Great American Novel somewhere in there? Possibly, Do I believe more & more that literature & writing is becoming a lost art form? Possibly.

My faith in readers & people who actually know true literature is renewed every christmas season when I get in about 200 boxes of Leather Bound Classics & we sell out of a few of them. It also is renewed when I see the Caldacott & Newberry Medals on the Childrens books. to me it means that there still maybe some standards being kept & maybe one day they will write The Great American Novel & Book lovers will appreciate it.

 

 

 

 


May 11, 2012 2:30 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

I seem to remember that at some point a few years ago(nascent internet)that TV GUIDE was the most read publication.    And Marlboro,then  milk, were the most  single purchased items...    meanwhile, no one gives props to the cereal box, and shampoo container, for most read....well, and PDA's (rememer that term?  personal digital assistant..).because today, it is  little screen readers......and I am just ready to get one....NOOK?  Tablet NOOK?    anyone have an opinion?

May 11, 2012 2:36 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Oh, and should the  coin operated mirror read to you , from your current 'talkiing book'?, and use facial recognition software to know it is you,and what page you left off, on your 'personal' reader? and not just what you were muttering the last time you used the  coin operated mirror? after a couple of those crushed fresh tomahto Bloody Marys'?

May 11, 2012 3:41 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

A novel?

What a novel idea.

May 11, 2012 5:47 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

RY~ The shampoo container - without my glasses, I can't read the words on toiletries, which has led to some amusing bathroom incidents. Good thing I only use Eco-friendly cleaning products!

May 11, 2012 6:08 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

I got the novel reading bug at an early age - when we were living in Africa - no TV, limited radio, a wind-up gramophone and every 3 months, I think, a Reader's Digest book of 3 0r 4 'condensed' novels. My Dad would devour them while I was watching how thick the remaining pages were. I couldn't wait to get my hands on them. So my reading was 'pot luck' and still is. I can get books for almost nothing in charity shops and garage sales - and I do.

May 11, 2012 7:22 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

What huge ego to assume that having written the great American novel, the peons would be too dense to appreciate it.  By who's lights is it great?  Who is to determine its greatness?  Like Hazel, I caught the novel reading bug early and still have it and yes, used to read the Reader's Digest condensed books as well.  I think the Harry Potter books would qualify as great since they appealed to all ages, caused many who don't usually read to pick it up and read it, and had all levels discussing them.   There are so many books that would qualify for me how can one come up with THE great novel?  Books are an important part of my life and even with a Kindle and Nook, I still purchase the real thing.  They're all great, the feel, the anticipation of starting a new novel, especially one by a favorite author. 

May 11, 2012 7:31 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

Good morning all!
 I would say NO loud & clear, it is NOT dead. Our small, locally owned bookstore is always full of people and wonderful things. That being said I understand how frustrating it must be for RINGS to deal w/ that.
 
ANDY...................................wonderful post! I agree wholeheartedly.........
 
HAZE...................nice slice of life.....................
 
RY......................I know two people who have the beefed up Kindle & they LOVE it..............for what that is worth.
 
Fun day at school...all day long............games, bouncy things, face painting, nail painting, hotdogs, cotton candy, popcorn, & snowcones................a wild, wild day.................

May 11, 2012 7:33 AM
The_philosophy_tommy_typical_bookcover 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

I was sad when Paul Erdman passed away in 2007. Some of my favorite novels involve international finance and intrigue. There are many good ones. While in jail, Mr. Erdman wrote his first novel - The Billion Dollar Sure Thing. Yesterday prior to the "official" release of the figures I posted that JP Morgan Chase's Trading losses could reach $4 billion as speculation rose yesterday afternoon. So far CEO Dimond says they are actually $2 billion and this is due to sloppiness. Credit Default Swaps are just a normal way for the "best" of the banks to safely handle your savings. We try to live normal lives but there are things going on & security in the real world is perhaps shakier than between the pages of Erdman or the fun mysteries of Margaret Truman.

May 11, 2012 9:20 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Bebe - thank you and yes, we also have two small bookstores on Main Street as well as, my idea of heaven, a Barnes and Noble a few miles away....all usually full. I text one grandson every time I'm in B & N to see if there's something he'd like and for two of my grandchildren one of the best gifts I can give is a gift card to Barnes and Noble. When they were younger and able to stay over more often, that was a special treat for them.....a trip to the bookstore. Their mother would limit the number of purchases, but they were with Grandma and so many books later........

May 11, 2012 9:43 AM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I doggedly insist that the novel has a fundamental reason why it must and will survive. The human condition is flawed, but not necessarily fatally flawed. Somewhere inside each of us is our own garden of good & evil, and it always seems to be midnight when the chips are down. There is always, however, an heroic effort seeking personal redemption. The struggle to master our internal demons is the ultimate personal conflict, and it is often too painful or embarrassing to let it play out on stage or on the silver screen. Hence the necessity of the novel, where we hypothetically battle through fictional surrogates....and hope that we overcome adversity, finding the existential reason to keep our heads above water.

May 11, 2012 10:17 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

So, Bert~ is novel writing a form of self indulgence? Some sort of cathartic thing?

May 11, 2012 10:23 AM
408 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


The "Great" as in 'The Great Novel, American or otherwise,' is the enemy of the very good or even the pleasantly diverting.
Fiction is escapism from whom, what and where we are.
Fantasy is an infantile form of escapism wherein natural boundaries and limitations are transcended in favor of a wider, albeit implausible, range of possibilities.
It's all good if you need to escape and even better if you don't.
The "Death Of" anything gives me a headache implying, as it does, that all the good stuff is gone.
Yeah, so, for the most part, are polio, TB, scarlet fever and a load of other miseries without which we are free to live longer, better lives.
The only reason the glass is half full is that we drank it down that far and it was good.

May 11, 2012 10:24 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

Since the beginnings of civilization hasn't every generation declared one art form or another degraded, dying or even dead?  How many must have moaned over drama when the chorus as used by Euripides and Sophocles no longer moved the action or commented?  Music has had it's dirge played more than once, but still it flourishes and has many vibrant branches.  (I'm told even rock'n' roll didn't die with Elvis but still keeps on rockin' and rollin').   Yes, rings 90, I do empathize with you on dealing with a seemingly clueless public.  But you're helping them and you're educating them.  It would be ever so much more fun to discuss the actual readings with them, but by aiding them to put their hands on them is the first step.          But, as we discussed previously, most people are all about the easy way.  They don't want to be challenged and reading does challenge them in a most interactive way.  And we of the Eye all know that we each bring our own way of thinking to books as we read, so our take on it is not necessarily that of our friend or spouse or sister or brother or parent.  But it is our own take.  Not right or wrong, but ours.  And that can be hard for a lot of people to deal with.  A video game tells them immediately whether they're right or wrong.  Easy.  Ah! But reading.....reading makes you think!  Even if it's light or comical you still end up wondering either about the character's reactions or how you might behave under similar conditions.          ************I was fortunate enough in my college years to have a prof who was on the either the Newberry of Caldecott decision committee (can't remember which one)and she was sent cartons and cartons of books to read and determine if it was medalist material.  There were not enough hours in the day, of course, to be a prof and person and read all of those, so for a few years I was privileged to read books and make recommendations to her.  

more on the honor roll
May 11, 2012 10:33 AM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Hazel, it's just my opinion, but I think a component of narcissism exists in every great novel. It coexists, however, with the unversal message that let's readers vicariously participate in the author's experiences. Thus one need not be an an alcoholic or a vagabond or a living breathing person in the 1920's to relate to Steinbeck or Hemingway. Vicarious exposure wets one's whistle sufficiently to learn of the struggle of migrants in the dust bowl, or of the Cuban people before the rise of Fidel & Che. The novelist's work becomes sort of a Petri dish for the readers, and classroom teachers have seen the eyes of countless students suddenly come alive, as the little light bulb goes on in their minds....

May 11, 2012 10:38 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

No, the novel is not dead must be my resounding answer, but only because I spend timer with people who write them,  and bcause I have written one,
 
But the novel may be seriously ill" Publishers label mine "too literary"; what else should it be?  The kinder ones take time to call and explain that, were it fifteen years ago, they'd set asside a place for "literary novels" (I don't know what non-l;iterary novels are, and how they fare, and who writes or reads them). When said publishers were bought by _____name a big comany, however, first to go was the literary novel, to make more space for romance, how-to, diet, and twelve- step books.
 
Authors write and people read fine novels, to this day; had we time I could make a list.  Wall STreet Journal and New York Times do that each week.  But anyone who writes and cares about serious fiction knows how (relatively) few of those books will remain on The List for long, if they make it at all.  The taste of our reading public has plunged abysmally, and publishers are inm business to make money.  Of the many proud houses owned by the same family, but one remains -- no: perhaps two -- Norton and Knopf.  RINGS90 will better know;  I can no longer keep up with who's bought by whom. Conglomerates have swept them up, changing their lists.
The answer, I don't know...I don't even know the question, in reality.

May 11, 2012 10:57 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Thanks, Bert~ for your interesting reply.
Quick everybody! Send me eel recipies. There is a mechanical digger clearing the ditches in the marsh below me and scooping out huge eels.

May 11, 2012 10:59 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

I hadn't read BERT's comments when I wrote my own, and should have, for I second everything he says,
 
The creative process in any discipline is fascinating and frustrating; the hard, rough, exhilarating work of writing is no less so.  You've been in labor, and have given biirth after a long struggle -- but that is only the birth, the beginning. The task of finding an agent who shares your vision, his task of finding the right publisher can take months, even years.
 
The greater wonder is not how much fiction is published, but the exorbitant amount of awful fiction that is.  Agents agree, and publishers admit without embarrassment that they must fill the yawning maw of the public's desire, else they'll have unhappy stockholders.  From that perspective, all makes sense.  But sad it is. 

May 11, 2012 11:31 AM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Thanks for your kind words, Georgia. Poor fiction is like poorly thought-out political speeches, abundant to the level of epidemic proportions. Both are necessary, however, if for no other reason than to make the occasional shining star stand out.....

May 11, 2012 11:48 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

a good novel can outlive the writer by many lifetimes

May 11, 2012 12:34 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

It's not dead but it has been dumbed down a bit.  There is so much fluff and pulp out there that is being lauded with hyperbole that doesn't really aptly describe their light nature "amazing" "engrossing" "best read of the year" "addicting".  And then you read them and think to yourself "I can't believe I read the whole thing.", feeling like the poor guy in the alkaseltzer commercial from yesteryear.
 
I'm so worn out on over hyped books that turn out to be nothing more than glammed up sophmoric prose written purely to real in the suckers and turn a profit.  I want something new that has substance to it.  Really good writing, great editing, complex characters, a rich story that actually challenges me.  I want to have to think!  When I don't want to think I'll read chick lit.

May 11, 2012 12:53 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

RY, you've got that right.  I think one of the most compelling novels in my little library is "The Mayor of Casterbridge".  It was written over a hundred years ago and still has the ability to make the reader really examine what it means to be a flawed human struggling for redemption. 

May 11, 2012 12:55 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Chick lit is one step up from Love's Throbbing Dwarf and like Zane Grey and all the pulp fiction and serializations from the past is here to stay. Have you ever noticed that spelling seems to be genetic? Some people can always spell and others,never, like Einstein. I think the thirst for reading is like that. Of course we have a part in guiding our children by reading wonderful things to them and giving them books but some people never "get it."

I am not surprised by the fact that publishers fill their catalogues with schlock any more than I am in any industry. Those of us who thirst for new literature must make sure the Public Library system is maintained and must support independent book stores, as BEBE said, because these are the sources we have for discovering new fiction and new authors.

And every now and then something like "Harry Potter" comes along and revs up everyone's reading engines.

May 11, 2012 1:41 PM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Has anyone else done a double take when confronted by the price of books? Even paperbacks are audacious, or rather their publishers are, for asking what they do for them. Usually I bring what I want & need to read with me, but when caught off guqrd @ the airport far away from home I made the mistake of venturing into the gift shop. Egads! Furthermore the more flamboyant the cover "art" the higher the price. Finally when airborn I traded my magazine (also pricey) for an issue of "Cliff's Notes." The student explained without any telltale signs of prevarication (breaking eye contact, staccato speech, shuffling in his seat) that he had dutifully & faithfully read the entire classic novel, but that he "merely" needed a refresher before final exams. I told the lad to be careful, since there is now software to detect plagarism available to any teacher willing to run his or her suspiciously coherent papers through the regimen. Alas, if only colleges & universities (and for that matter secondary schools) had meaningful honor codes, like the United States Military Academy....(sigh). We try to aspire to teaching values, not merely rote memory facts..... that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

May 11, 2012 1:45 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

Having done a lot of reading for many years I am somewhat dismayed at a lot of the books now on the market. Last week after a three week visit to visit my wifes family in Iowa we were getting ready to retun to Wa. state when my sister-in-law said here is something to read on the plane and handed me a book of short stories by Jack London. It made the flight back a lot more pleasant and the flight seem shorter. A lot like Hazel L, when growing up and visiting my grand parents they would give me a book to read while I was there,this was way before TV, and was probably aimed at helping to keep me out ot trouble at the time.

May 11, 2012 1:46 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Ground beef is double digit and when I went to buy some Little Debbies they were THREE DOLLARS. I think they were a buck the last time I indulged in Swiss Rolls.
So yes, books are exorbitant, on Kindle as well, but especially at airports and train stations. It seems as if everything has doubled in the past 3 years. hmmm.

May 11, 2012 1:50 PM
The_philosophy_tommy_typical_bookcover 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

I have long felt that interesting people attract interesting things and find that that great novels live by the Rule of Fancy Tickling. When one seeks a treasure you ultimately uncover it but it usually isn't what you expected and what you initially might have settled for. Like lovemaking you seek that orgasmic finish but hold back each step of the way not wanting it to be over. Maybe because you control the future of the experience and know it has a start and a finish and you hold it in your hands though there are moments when you even fool yourself and think not. In the great ones there's always something for you uniquely that you can't or don't wish to share. I always despised classes that overanalyzed and even tried to impose meanings.

May 11, 2012 1:51 PM
408 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


The one really seriously literary man known to us as kids was a visitor and a mighty large one.
He had written a lot of books, spoke by quoting others and was best known and liked by us for the shortest short stories ever written: one or two paragraphs that had left compactness in the dust in factor of compression.
They were all about kids, a boy and his dog, a broken window, the dying lady and one about a girl who had seen a prominent person stealing… twice.
His attire could have been characterized as seasonal costuming and he was at his best in the summer when, staying alone at the cottage next to our neighbors', he was the kind of guy who gave linen and a lot of it, a good name.
Everything he wore was crisp, light in color and fit to perfection.
He drank scotch so good it could not be bought in town but never before 11:00 AM and then, straight through.
Being kids and his name being Miles, we called him Miles Around.
His stories were handwritten in thick black ink on important seeming off-white paper and signed.
I had three of them but gave them to a sick and miserable sister of one of my friends and got covered in slobber, tears and snot out of gratitude.
Mom said: "You should wash up and change your shirt,"
I said: "She doesn't have cooties or anything" and was told: "Actually, she… does," but took off anyway.
I never felt bad about having made the present, being one of few people who realized that he, a good listener, had not made the stories up but had just written them down.
I have always wished that I could do that.

ChefDeb ~

Little Debbies at any price...


May 11, 2012 1:53 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

ChefDeb, I don't mind pulp and fluff now and then, but I genuinely like to be challenged when I read.  There are so many formulaic chain novels out there are nothing but the first book rehashed dozens of times, nothing exciting and new.
 
Bert I used to love browsing new and used book stores, but I had to stop because I would eventually buy something and that's not in the budget anymore...it is the library for me now, re-reading books I already own, or bumming off of friends...that is when I actually have time to read *sigh* which isn't often enough for my tastes.

May 11, 2012 2:08 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

I guess I'll be the lone dummy and ask "what constitutes a Novel?" is it the length, the subject matter, or as my greatly missed father-in-law put it:

"It's a novel if you drop it and it breaks your toe."

I dropped my book on my toe and other than a slight breech of verbal etiquette, I am just fine.

Anyone?

May 11, 2012 3:24 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Stoney, I think you do that quite well.

May 11, 2012 3:26 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Ummy~ Love your "slight breech of verbal etiquette" Them books - I'm not sure what elevates a work from potboiler to sainthood. Charles Dickens' novels were serialised in installments in a newspaper to pay the bills.

May 11, 2012 3:56 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Umm ~ A novel is nothing more than a long fictional prose narrative.  From there the author's genius breathes life into it. I'm with Miss Hazel on this one, I don't know exactly what, other that some critic's opinion, elevates one novel above another.  But I know what I like.  Your book would have made a good novel if you had fictionalized the experience, but then it would have been a totally different book.

May 11, 2012 4:13 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Has anyone in the village read a novel by Doris Betts?

May 11, 2012 4:15 PM
Img_0144 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

For me, 'the thrill of the hunt' is quickened when i find a good novel in the 'new voices section of any bookstore, be they bricks and mortar or digital.

I think it is extreme hubris to announce that that the last great anything is indeed the last of thr great, or even very good anything.

The value of that kind of talk only serves to draw attention to one's self or ease the fear of a generation's claim to superiority.

I say bolderdash!

In the words of a SoCal lit teacher i have known since HS...... Quit whining and read dammit......

I added the dammit.

I am off on a quest to tame a bittersweet vine that is consuming my poor garage..., just a trim and raising of the sideburns.

May 11, 2012 4:33 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

STONEY, I'm with paulos: you do that VERY well. (had you not named the writer, I'd have said Ernest Hemingway.  Never verbose, minimal almost to a fault. Funny thing about people: I can -- and do -- love his work as I do Updike's careful choice and loving treatment of words; his Everyman, questing, human characters, to whom I always relate).  As (I think) my profile says, "People are incorrigbly themselves." I just ordered two used Nicholson Bakers, and re-read John O'Hara and F. Scott Fitzgerald periodically.  Like needing a certain movie every so often. On the other hand, because I so enjoyed The World According tol Garp and Ciderhouse Rules, I immersed myself in A Widow for One Year (all John Irving) and 1/4 through, last night I put it back on the library shelf. Perhaps in another mood, at another time, for I want to give him his due...but not now.   DO unhesitatingly recommend Ciderhouse Rules, which made a fine movie, with Michael Caines. PLease, all, see that one!  (Don't know where italics came from...?)
 
HAZEL, nor do I know (what elevates a book) -- 'til I read it.  A few pages tell me whether or not I want to finish it.  For years, I felt obliged to finish a book, giving the writer every chance; as my years have grown shorter, lesser, though, and time is at a premium, I've stopped that. If he doesn't engage me, I put him down...sorry.
 
PAULOS is right: never does it 'work' to simply write what happened to you; you are not objective, and a fact is but the springboard to fiction, a poem, non-fiction prose.
 
STONEY, you know my mantra: SAVE IT FOR OLIVER< IF FOR NO OTHER REASON!!!

May 11, 2012 5:02 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Paolos, thank you for the complement and thank you for sorting out my "novel" issue. I'm satisfied on both counts.

May 11, 2012 5:12 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 George Hall said...

Stoney~To my taste, you are masterful at storytelling. I've wondered if you had or had considered writing a book. The man who so successfully produced 60 minutes for so many years always tols his staff the secret was/is "...tell me a story."  Fortunately, our tastes are different person to person. If it weren't so,  all men would be fighting each other at one woman's door. As a young boy, I lived for my next "Zane Grey pulp". I loved them so much I bought all 73 in hardback and re-read them. After the first   reread, ,I,except that I had learned that President/General of  the Army Dwight Eisenhour also loved them, would have hidden in a closet to read the other 72.

May 11, 2012 5:18 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

Hazel lots of great authors serialized their work.  I mentioned a novel by Thomas Hardy earlier that had original been published in installments in a circular before it was published in novel form.  I think newspapers and magazines seem to have gotten away from publishing serials, but then again I haven't subscribed to any periodicals in ages so I don't know for sure.
 
I often start a book and get the impression that it is dreck, but force myself to read the whole thing because "what if it gets better?".  I finish it and then usually feel like I've wasted my time.  I keep doing it though because once in a while I find a slow starter that turns into a real gem.  Hope springs eternal.

May 11, 2012 5:28 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

GEORGIA--A Prayer for Owen Meanie is my favorite John Irviing.

NACHISTA I didn't mean to say that reading "fluff" is a bad thing. I have read so much fluff in my lifetime I can't even begin to describe it. I certainly wasn't meaning to insult Zane Grey, Charles Dickens, et al., I was simply trying to point out that commercialism in publishing is an age old custom. I think whatever one reads whether its the Little Debbie box or Proust, read on!

May 11, 2012 5:29 PM
004 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 korthal said...

UMMGAWA: "A slight breech of verbal etiquette", I'm saving that for future use, on many occasions.

May 11, 2012 5:45 PM
The_philosophy_tommy_typical_bookcover 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

p- Doris not so much but I used to listen intently to Dickey Betts. I was born a Ramblin' Man. They are burying George Goober Lindsay today here in Nashville. The University of North Alabama awarded him an honorary doctorate in 1992, and he was affectionately called "Doctor Goober" by acquaintances after that.

May 11, 2012 5:53 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

So many novelists today write for the masses, either so the book will go immediately to film, as John Irving does, or to the grocery store shelves, as John Patterson does. Irving's books now read like scripts. Patterson's are nearly formulaic. It seems as if the writers today are not trying to write 'the great American novel," but rather the great American best-seller. If the can make the Top Ten list, they are sure to recoup their investment and then some.

Just read a Southern gothic called "Crooked Letter, Crooked Letter"....good, not too predictable (except in spots), and well-written (no obvious grammatical errors.) ---snakes, murder, racial issues, and more....I enjoyed it.

May 11, 2012 6:07 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

CD - That's how I took it, no worries.  I can't read war and peace all the time, nor would I want to.  I always have a small paperback in my purse and another in my car...you never know when you are going to be stuck somewhere and have to pass the time.  I look forward to waiting for meetings or appointments because it allows me a few quiet minutes to actually read for pleasure instead of work.
 
I doubt novels will ever truly die, humans are far too creativive and evolving to let that happen.  Now how we read them may change from time to time.  Installments in newspapers, hard back, paper back, digital readers.  I wonder what they will come up with next?
 
One fiction art form that I miss are radio plays.  My oldest sister recently found a radio station in rural radio station near her in-laws that plays old radio plays on Sundays.  She asked her mother in law to tape them all for her and she's converted them to CD and their family listens to them together on long car trips.  I do love a good story read aloud.

May 11, 2012 6:19 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 George Hall said...

I've found the'One-five Star ratng system" developed from reader comments on Amazon to help finr entertaining books. It sells books to me.

May 11, 2012 6:19 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 George Hall said...

I've found the'One-five Star ratng system" developed from reader comments on Amazon to help finr entertaining books. It sells books to me.

May 11, 2012 6:26 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

George sometimes the reviews on Amazon are more entertaining than the product being sold.  I liked this one even though it isn't a book review...
 
http://www.amazon.com/Hasselblad-H4D-60-Megapixels-Digital-40-2x53-7mm/dp/B004YG6OUQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336775075&sr=8-1

May 11, 2012 6:37 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

Does anyone in the Village read short stories?

May 11, 2012 6:42 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

lotlot---When I can get my hands on a good collection I read short stories......I also love to read collected essays.   Short stories are, indeed, an art form and they deserve more readership.  I just finished a book of noir short stories and, as you might deduce from them being 'noir' some of them were very dark indeed.  But, they were over before I got too scared or freaked out!  I love the "twists of fate" that short storied utilize so well!

May 11, 2012 6:43 PM
408 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


I have often thought of having the first two sentences done up in a sampler, framed and hung.

http://www.clivejames.com/pieces/shadows/brezhnev

May 11, 2012 6:44 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

I LOVE short stories LOTLOT! My Dad iintroduced me to Somerset Maugham when I was in 6th grade and I have loved them ever since. i Think Bret Harte's "Tennessee's Partner" must be my favorite because whenever short stories are mentioned it pops into my head.

There are many novels which should have remained short stories. Kind of like those SNL skits that are made into movies.

May 11, 2012 6:54 PM
Bwme 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 nachista said...

lotlot when the weather is nice I enjoy listening to the NPR program Selected Shorts while I go for a drive up the canyon every Sunday.

May 11, 2012 6:57 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

Stoney--if you are a Clive James fan I'm sure you are aware of Arts & Letters Daily-- a webpage that he started several years before his death.  It's such a wonderful compendium of readings from so many areas and has introduced me to the very insightful writings of Theodore Dalrymple who is an essayist of the very highest order.

May 11, 2012 7:10 PM
408 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


ChefDeb ~
Your incisive comment about some novels that ought to have remained short stories put me in mind of this reasonably watchable movie and this perfect ending:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eT33eT30Uc

Problem being… it didn't end there, not even close.

May 11, 2012 7:24 PM
The_philosophy_tommy_typical_bookcover 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Arturo Fuente Hemingway Short Story is a fine smoke in and of itself that takes me to Spain where a trip to Ronda had become an adventure after a rental van failure. The best short story teller and short story writer of our time is Kinky Friedman especially after I have a half bottle of his cactus juice. Not to mention anytime Tom Waits sings a great oral novel unfolds.

May 11, 2012 8:07 PM
408 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Carol ~
Missed your comment. I was unaware of that source. I've had a look and will take a cushion and a drink when returning.
One of our daughters and I have amused each other with phrases from that review.
The guy has a way with the language all right.
Thanks for the tip.

paolos, Georgia and George Hall ~
Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. I am always knee deep in unused words but not everyone is grateful for being considered bright enough to know what they would have been.

May 11, 2012 10:16 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

CAROL..................you are so right when you say that even in non serious novels you WONDER about the characters, you picture them in your mind. I like what STONEY said, books take you away when you need to get away. Of course I am paraphrasing you both & probably not well.
 
CHEFD & GEORGIA....................A Prayer for Owen Meaney is such an epic & great read. It was the first & only Irving book I ever read. That book stayed w/ me. & CHEFD, you are so correct.....................I bought 3 boxes of Little Debbie Christmas tree cakes for the class around the holidays & they were about $3.39 a box. Blew my mind..........................I do adore the LD gingerbread men......................I have 0 self control w/ a box.....
 
I like all kinds of books.................from The Love Machine, one of my all time favorites, to literature dahling..................I just find it so astounding that there are people out there who can move me & take me away to other worlds. I am grateful beyond anything for that gift they have given me....................
 
STONEY.....................you did it again.......................just wonderful slices of life and feelings...............your gift to all of us!
 
Probably tired of me mentioning it, but today is the day I CAN do it...............The Rules of Civility by Amor Towles made me swoon it is so beautiful.................
 
I so enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts today. It was a pleasure after a long day & a long nap.....................
 
A friend is heading to Cinci to see her daughter row crew & is hopefully going to eat Skyline............................mmmmmmmmmmmm.....................Skyline......................

May 11, 2012 10:19 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

I read fear and loathing as a serial in Playboy. It lit my fire. I read the book. I found his "gonzo" style so engauging, it taught me how to phrase. I miss his sardonic wit. I read almost all his short stories, and the serials in Rolling Stone. Sadly, most all my reading these days has some element of technical  knowledge, a necessity for my latest iteration at my vocation. On the other hand, I find the quest for new ways to save energy while offering comfort, and safe storage of food and wine, to be so satisfying, it does the job for me to relax,and revive.  I still have that children's story that fell out of my pencil for a Mother's day card, and it was polished enough as a first draft that Vanguard Press said they would print it. I couldn't afford it then, but I may try it some day soon.

May 11, 2012 10:22 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

My other writer 'model' is Shell Silverstien...his rythm and rhyme is just comfortable for me to copy, and you may have noticed it in some of my entries

May 11, 2012 10:36 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

MOOSE.......................we saw Tom Franklin do a reading many years ago for his first book. he was charming & rather shy, now he's a big deal. I have been meaning too read Crooked letter..........................
 
RY.................Shel was a fox in that white caftan.....................

May 11, 2012 10:37 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

to......doh...............
 
Where is PARK-O-POLIS?????????????????????

May 11, 2012 11:05 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Bless the Tribe, pray to your Diety on His Day. Peace and health to all, and Ivan, I,WE, hope you are well

May 11, 2012 11:11 PM
408 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Out in the Amish rocker in my old green shawl collar pile cardigan, I opened one eye to see a large not short haired, not long haired cat on the top step leaning against against the screen door like it owned the place.
One inch away, on this side of the screen, sat Daisy, the sixty pound brindle boxer who does.
I don't know how long it had been going on but as if somebody I couldn't hear had counted to three, they both flopped down and went to sleep… detente, I guess.

bebe ~
Thanks and have a nice soft weekend.

Honor Roll


Since the beginnings of civilization hasn't every generation declared one art form or another deg...

-Carol

May. 11, 2012 10:24 AM

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