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Climate of Doubt

January 18, 2012

Climate change advocates are facing heavy weather these days.

Texas and Louisiana are introducing standards that require educators to teach climate change denial as a valid scientific position.

South Dakota and Utah passed resolutions denying climate change.

Tennessee and Oklahoma also have introduced legislation that forecast problems to educate about global warming.

And so it goes.

Even though scientific evidence increasingly shows that fossil fuel consumption has caused the climate to change rapidly, the issue has become such a political football that it's spilling into the classrooms.

All pointed out by Neela Banerjee of the Washington Bureau in the Los Angeles Times just this week.

She quotes Dr. Susan Buhr, director of the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences, who suggests resistance to science breaks down mostly along regional lines — with greater effort in the South and in regions where "livelihoods have been built on extractive industries" of fossil fuels.

Meanwhile in the UK, the second warmest autumn on record in more than a century has even got mild mannered Richard Attenborough fuming about the dangers of global warming.

The percentage of Americans who believe climate change has plummeted from 71 to 51 in recent years.

Why?

Is the resistance fueled by dark conspiracy theories and vested interests that have nothing to do with reality?

Is this growing stance on climate change, (and in some instances, resistance to evolution), shortchanging education?

What's your educated opinion?

J. Peterman

 

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Under Construction: Design Stuff & Member Commenting - Changes Soon.
113 Members’ Opinions
January 18, 2012 12:18 AM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

My educated opinion is that an awful lot of people in the US need education and are impervious to it. People tend to place themselves in binding receivership of only the facts that adhere to what preconceptions they carry around (as the Talmud has warned, we don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are).

That South Dakota and Utah did the duncecap things that they did speaks volumes but also says nothing about the low octane gray matter that abounds in those states that isn't already known. I have spent plenty of time in both of those states, and dumbth prevails in SD. Mass delusion is the norm in Utah.

Here's hoping for a day of exchanges in which the fur really gets flying.

January 18, 2012 12:45 AM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

As I told my class on Tuesday, "belief" is an inappropriate word in this context.  Nobody should "believe" in the theory of global warming (or evolution).  Belief requires faith.  Acceptance or rejection requires evidence!  One should accept or reject scientific theories by weighing the evidence at hand.  Currently the evidence supports the theory of global warming as exacerbated by fossil fuel and other carbon-rich energy consumption.  Even if we step back from whether or not one accepts this theory, let's look at the concequences.  We have nothing to lose by being more energy concious.  If we do not change our behavior and the scientists are correct, we are in serious trouble.  If we do change our behavior and new data refutes global warming, we have learned to live more efficiently.  So, bottom line, we lose nothing by changing our behavior regardless of whether or not one accepts the theory of global warming.  The theory of global warming is strongly supported by reputible and repeatable scientific data.  For me, the preponderance of evidence allows me to accept this theory as the best explanation of what is happening (as for my bona fides, I am an archaeologist and paleoclimate reconstruction is an important part of my field; I am not a climate scientist, but I read and understand it).  As for teaching unscientific or anti-scientific ideas in school: that is what will put our nation behind others, not our corporate tax rates or anything else.

more on the honor roll
January 18, 2012 1:41 AM
13091 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 janej78 said...

S.A.J.Johnson, well told. As you say, what have we to lose by applying energy conscious change? Possibly everything to gain.

January 18, 2012 1:42 AM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

I'm beginning to think we are on the threshold of The Dark Ages, Part Deux! Scary stuff this is.

January 18, 2012 3:31 AM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

Living more efficiently, utlitize your resources within your means; recycle at home needs...i keep thermostat at 68 degrees...wear warm clothes..in the winter months...food shop wisely...Yes, there is a climate change ...but what direction it will go..too hot;I was a Lifeguard and Swim coach in Phoenix Arizona..110 to 120 degrees in July only; after the  year of the great Tsunami in 2004..?  date right...it was 114 degrees in April in Phoenix...odd...and not normal...too. or too cold...My observation on the climate changes in southwest Pennsylvania started in 1989; the sun was brighter in the sky; more blinding....then in 1990 we had a drought and the earth cracked under our farmland...on the mountain...that was weird....if you need water you need to live near a spring; mountain tops need wells for water... not a good place for survival..springs are around but lower elevation water is more plentiful...ok, now come on...i have snowski all my life...either it snows on the west coast first or the east coast first..now, we have not a nodda....it is the first year that we had no snow in Pennsylvania...not counting the very low accumulations just recently......after the 2004 tsunami we had Washington DC weather...warmer winter...but to have any temp above 32 degress in January consistently is super odd...January is our coldest month and it goes below zero for about 1 week...but it is a cold in the teens and low 20's month..so i read the artlicle climate change denial... and people are not addresses the issue...and the younger you are you might not be able to sense a innate problem...i spend alot of time outdoors....I saw a bolt of lightening as wide as a silo...and that was super odd, i even called the weather channel...about it ...scarey...sorry, but airplanes when there is 4000 in the air at a time is a huge energy consumer...The concord was put to rest because each ticket was actually $35,000per passenger and the passenger only had to pay what $7000.00 to $8,0000.00; I knew a women who went on company money 3 times in week for a wedding gown fitting to London from New York City...... 

January 18, 2012 4:23 AM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

The biggest problem with "warble gloaming" theory is that all of it derives from observation and description. This is the most skeletal form of empiricism.

To be corroborated (a theory can never be proven but only disproven), a notion needs to behave along predicted lines in response to an intervention. The ideal way of doing such is in the form of experiments in tandem with proper controlled experiments.

We'll never have that in climatology, but we do have data from one great and unintended climatologic intervention. This was when all US air trafffic was grounded for several days starting on 11 September 2001. During those days, collective US temperatures fell to decade lows.

Jets, depositing as they do greenhouse gases in the tropopause, are the most effective origins of atmospheric changes that would cause global warming.

January 18, 2012 5:27 AM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Anyone remember Time magazine June 24, 1974 "Another Ice Age?" In fact for much of my growing up years, that was the fear I had! What happened??? Well, perhaps it depens on whether we are looking at the forest or the tree. According to some others' educated opinions, over the last million years, the earth has witnessed climate as warm as at least today's, for less than 10% of the time (read that again. These periods are known as interglacial periods.  Interglacials actually begin with a sudden warming, hits a peak and gradually descends into cooler conditions and then slides quickly into freezer mode. Apparently, man may have actually delayed the onset of the ice age. I'm not making this up...WSJ just talked about it a few days ago....
 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204257504577150812451167538.html   ;

January 18, 2012 6:00 AM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

SF: I saw the WSJ article.

It's come up here before: If you had to choose which way to die, would you rather do a Jack London or a Paul Bowles?

The first time the notion of interglacial periods got into popular media was The Atlantic decades ago, when it was nearly argued that the flowering of western civilization was because of a weather fluke.

The best single publication I have ever read on this subject is the years-old issue of Granta (a literary (and occasionally journalistic) quarterly) called "This Overheating World." The Scottish ur-scrivener Ian Jack was the editor at the time (not a nom de plume), and he retired when Granta's offices moved way across London-town. After going quickly through two pneumocephalic editors, Granta is now in the able hands of John Freeman. I have just finished reading the issue "The F Word," which is all remarkable memoir by women about being women (F is for feminism).

I hope I am not the only one here whose elementary school classmates were snickering about an underground comedy LP that had a faux weather report about a cold front moving in affecting only women.

January 18, 2012 6:05 AM
1014 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 karma swim swami said...

"The Ice Mother mates
and a new age is born."
----Jethro Tull, "Something's on the Move"
(from album "Stormwatch")

January 18, 2012 6:33 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

SAJ JOHNSON....................Great post! Very reader friendly & you did it all w/out slagging off the inhabitants of several states. As someone here famously says, "Good on you!" Your students are quite lucky to have you.
 
Have a loverly day all!

January 18, 2012 6:48 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Its 50 degrees out now. It was 12 degrees yesterday morning at this time. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what does. My interests are neither scientific nor political in my slothful retirement years, but when I fling the window open in the morning (I do love crisp air) even I can tell that the climate is shall we say, not what it used to be. Cue "Something in the Air" by Thunderclap Newman.

January 18, 2012 6:49 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

SAJ JOHNSON...Bebe can tell you that I consider Teachers to be the Heroes of the world and you certainly fit that job description this morning. Bebe is 100% correct that your students are lucky to have you.

January 18, 2012 7:23 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

Hey, if you're a lurker from S. Dakota or Utah & you wanted to post or order something from the Peterman catalog, but now you are rethinking, STOP......................we are not all implements that repair cars, homes, or are used in the garden. All of those come under one name. We are NOT that.
 
CHEFD.....................I would like to be the hero of my bed today...................bwaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha.....................are you recovered????? Don't make me sing Cat Steven's, "Wild World." You just might drink MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

January 18, 2012 7:27 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Bebe--I HAVE recovered--thank you! But its still a "Wild World"!

January 18, 2012 7:32 AM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

I feel that I am hanging out at my favorite little shop from 3/4 time. Let's see here as I am perusing the vinyl albums....Jethro Tull. How does Ian play that flute while doing somersaults? Thunderclap Newman. Hey man did you see The Strawberry Statement? There's a shelf full of used Bukowski and Hunter S. Thompson books over there. Yep. I have read Atlas Shrugged. Here it is. Flo and Eddie. Love that cut "Keep it Warm". Yeah "Make a better world from the old one. Make yourself a baby and hold one. Hold her in your arms and keep her warm." All things must pass.

January 18, 2012 8:37 AM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

I just posted a picture of the Schwinn 1968 Orange Crate bike I rode that I found on Old Spokes Home. Pedal Driven it was O Dudes and Dudesses. Boy powered and there were slight emissions alright since most of us could pass gas at random and if not an arm fart was always a possibility. Now I have a fat tire beach cruiser but that orange crate had me pulling wheelies in front of every chick I saw and sometimes the results were less than spectacular. Actually Wild World made me thing of Peace Train and for some reason that took me to American Pie.  

January 18, 2012 8:51 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

We have climate change, no doubt about it, but information supporting whether that change is part of an interglacial warm-up or something more a result of human activity is tainted by the discovery that data have been manipulated or downright falsified by scientists who seem to operate like court alchemists and soothsayers, on the payroll of whatever group of politicians has the most to offer.


The current administrations folly in attempting to redistribute wealth in the name of alternative energy( don't get me started on this topic) instead of putting the money in the hands of the American people to insulate their homes, replace leaky windows, upgrade water heating, home heating and cooling systems etc. put this country trillions in debt and accomplished NOTHING.


Now to address that cheap shot at the Southern and Western states.Mr Peterman,please find another hack.


 It seems this administration can make your life pretty miserable (curtailment of traditional water rights, closed off- shore drilling operations and loss of jobs, closed military facilities etc) if your state doesn't vote properly.


The North would freeze and starve without us.

January 18, 2012 10:29 AM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

Jetthro Tull, poster was hanging on the wall of My sister and my designated room for years, my bed faced the poster, along with beads made out of paper, that lined the doorway, we had the hand dyed red-orange bedspreads from India, the beads painted orange, strawberry oil, mood rings....Landllubber jeans, cutoffs, and burlap bulletin boards, and a great stereo system...leatherbelt with large metal buckles, T-shirts and super groovy shirts..remember elephant pants.., and we each had a tassled leather vest...that we purchased alot of our wardrobe in Toronto, mygodmother, my Aunt from Argentina would visit often and bringing gifts of leather purses, boots, and coats, she smelled like the beautiful leather....it really smelled good...all the albums were played , BTO, Bread, BeatlesElectric Light Orchestra, Chicago, Jethro...while we had reading book sessions....how all six children manuvered their daily lives....wow....good hippie memories....My mother recycled the handmade beads, taking tincans wire them together to make stools...cutting off the end of 22 bullets and layer the gold tip ends onto the old handmade wooden crib that when flipped over recyed into a storage box! Meals aways ate food at home and maybe every other month Winkys or Micky D's... when i telll my children.. just have tea and toast with jam; they look at me and say I am outdated...we have one rule do not buy jewelry because it is a waste of money..so i do not have any gold....just very few momentos i like beads...ido not own 24 kt earrings or ever bought; now costume jewelery i do have...but how in the world can you havechildren and buy or receive  a$100.00 anything...i never minded...i never needed it..dept. store, I sold $36,000.00 in one month for a part-time job with a commission that admouted to $360, but i got the fleu in Jan and during inventory... thought there goes my commission for a week of not working; i was planning to buy something since for me...but i did not even pursue becasue i really did not see the value of even expensive jewelery...it too was commercial....give me air and sky and i am fine...
ostrich leather...it was perfumed.....very smart lady, graduatefromHarvard and one of thefirst nine...to graduate.  One of the energysaving thoughts i had; why can we not put garbage inside Volcanos to incinerate...and help solve the garbage problem...I was on a cruise ship and saw how they dump it overboard...sad..

January 18, 2012 11:06 AM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

Karma: Forcasting is indeed difficult!  Off of the top of my head I can think of three cycles that seriously affect long-term weather (earth's elipitcal orbit, earth's percession around its axis, el niño/la niña) and there are many more.  What is easier to forecast is the effects of global warming: a few degrees makes a world of difference. Miss Blue: The incident you bring up was certainly a black eye for the scientific community.  I would caution you not to discard the baby with the bathwater, though.  Lots of organizations have rouge individuals who reduce the credibility of their community, but if you ignore all of the organizations that have isolated idiots, there isn't much left.  That was one of thousands of climate scientists; hardly a representative sample.  Also, yes the current administration squandered money with the Solara company, but I would rather squander money in this way than with companies like Haliburton.  There ARE subsidies for installing solar cells, insulation, better windows, and more efficient appliances for residences (at least when I bought my house two years ago).  Finally, it is not a cheap shot at southern and western states.  It was a shot at states who have decided to hold back their students by giving them a sub-modern science education.  I teach at a Jesuit Catholic university and give full coverage to evolution.  I DO agree that creationism can be taught in schools: in a social science curriculum that has a comparative religion component.  It does not have a place in the science classroom, unless there is scientific evidence to support it.  "Teaching the controversy" is fine, in social studies.  There is no controversy within the scientific community, so there should be none in the science classroom.  I don't mean to flame the discussion, but there must be greater respect for both science and religion and their separation in certain contexts.  Full disclosure, I am an observant Jew who keeps kosher and teaches that humans and chimpanzees had a common ancestor 7-8 million years ago (and no my head doesn't explode).

January 18, 2012 11:07 AM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

PS, how do I split up my text so it doesn't come out as one big block?  I had returns in my last post that didn't show up.  Thanks!

January 18, 2012 11:15 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Having been educated at a Jesuit Catholic
University, I will take pleasure instructing a Jesuit University professor
whenever given a chance.  Start a new paragraph like this:
 
The new paragraph will start here.
 
A third can start here if you proceed in the same
manner.
 
No problem.

January 18, 2012 11:20 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Seriously, SAJJ it all depends on your browser. IE, Firefox and Chrome all act
differently. It is best to compose in another program rather than directly in
this little box.  Use notepad or your email or Word to compose, then cut or copy
and paste.  That way you can even use spell check, although I doubt professors
need that tool on their word programs.
 
Has anybody here seen my old friend
Stoney?  I could use a good normanrockwellian story
today.

January 18, 2012 11:29 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

No flames fanned here.


I am a somewhat lapsed daughter of the "Tribe" myself. My heritage continues to shape my view of the universe. I was ( and continue to be) trained and educated in the sciences, so I believe I can offer a fairly informed perspective on this climate change biz.


 


I follow a number of weather and climate "experts "and they are divided in their opinions. The Antarctic ice sheet is actually growing, for example.


Old wives tale....thunder in January brings snow a couple of weeks later. Now if that sort of thing didn't happen historically, then how did the old wives get involved? lol


The easiest and most efficient way of putting money in Americans pockets for the mentioned improvement would have been an income tax moratorium of 9 months or so for every tax paying family ( absolutely NO income tax withholdings ) instead of requiring the cumbersome task of taking credits and deductions at tax time...another BIG beef I don't need to address here and now.


Try cutting n pasting with Microsoft Word; usually works for me.

January 18, 2012 11:30 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

 
 
paolos, old buddy! Have you been lurking?
 
I've been wondering about Stoney myself.

January 18, 2012 11:32 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

Out of all this "where the rubber meets the sky'rhetoric  comes onefresh idea  from " where the rubber meets the road".. "dump the garbage in vol;canoes alet them incinerate it". Now there's a novel idea! You go, Sea Island LadyII!!!!

January 18, 2012 11:34 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

BTW,


SAJJ


Doesn't archeological evidence point to Climate Change as a reason for the demise of a number of ancient civilizations?

January 18, 2012 11:35 AM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

SAJJ...thank you for your last post. My son goes to a Christian affiliated school and tells of a preacher who was a guest speaker. He lost the boys completely once he went down the creationist track. Once he started attacking science the boys started attacking his premises, so much so that the boys were chided for being rude after the preacher left. You can't kid the kids nowadays.  As to posting, IE 9 (?) does that. It's a pain. The older version of IE has no such problem. Chrome is good but doesn't allow you to format text like bold or italics. Mozilla is wonderful but if you edit somewhere else first and then cut and paste, or try to paste a link, it says you have to edit your Mozilla user profile in your computer directory first. It's a stupid security setting by the browser. It can be done but tedious. I use all 3 browsers at different times, depending on my mood. Hope this helps

January 18, 2012 11:39 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

Nice thought, George, but think of all the fossil fuel that would be used to get the garbage there.....

January 18, 2012 11:44 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 Georgia said...

In truth, I'm not sufficiently 'educated' to speak today: I have only opionion based on what I read.  And I worry.  I borrow from PeterLake -=- Peace Out

January 18, 2012 12:01 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

SF ~ using Mozilla firefox... if you use the edit feature on the browser
rather than the right click edit feature, you can proceed quite easily.  Well, I
can, I would hope you could too.

Miss Blue ~ lurking sounds so
oleaginous
, as Miss Bebe would say.  I would prefer to think of it
as being too damm busy to come out of the field and into the house.
 
George Hall and Sea Island Lady,  Thirty some years ago my boss proposed
disposing of all hazardous waste in volcanoes.  I think he was Mayan or Aztec in
a previous life.

January 18, 2012 12:04 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

 
 
 
paolos,
 
ham n wry, just in time for lunch.LOL

January 18, 2012 12:15 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

Paolos~ Better late than never. I may have descended from  Aztecs myself. Growing  up wondering where your next meal might come from you don't worry much about your geneology... after you begin to get fat though, people start lookking around saying "wonder where we came from".

January 18, 2012 12:15 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

Where is George Carlin when we need him? "Weather tonight: dark. Turning partly light by morning." (as Al Sleet, the Hippy Dippy Weatherman, 1966)
***
It's the scare tactics that get me. Be skeptical but hedge your bet. Be True Gen.

January 18, 2012 12:16 PM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

Hear..yey....Hear...yey....In the News...The village went secular, for a day ... and got down on it...get down on ... it...ahawn.....whoa....little doggie........and keep thinking with our Thinking Caps on....and see if we can solve the world problem of unstable climate crisis. In the News.....^Increased Energy Consumption equates ^Increased Pollution Diffusion equates ^Unsustainable Eco-system equates ^the 3 D's Disease, Disability, and Death
 If we can send men to the moon ; we transpot oil, supplies, and goods all over the world; we surely can ditch and dump our waste into a pre-dug hole into the Volcano fire....i am sure that we need to understand what happens when you add fuel to the fire?_ *O * _     Oh my...; When the energy crisis hit in America, so many of us were kindof looking forward to trains, horse and buggy rides.....so many of us are using less...
 " Natures' Umpirical Tinkering is on its own time agenda..and is so ecologically sensible!"...SeaLady" 

January 18, 2012 12:27 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Hey Tommy, check this out, a project I took on and completed a few years back. I went and took picture just for you. She's in pristine condition...

http://www.petermanseye.com/photos/570331

As for today's subject, we do indeed need to take care of our planet. We, however, seem to be the most concerned. China could take a lesson.

Also, I find it humorous that one person can insult two states full of folks. But be so concerned when one member "insults" every member of ones family over an issue.

Climatic changes are naturally occurring events. They'll be happening when we are all fossil fuel ourselves. S.A.J., your students are blessed to have you as a teacher.

Hello Village. Hope it's a good one.

January 18, 2012 12:37 PM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

The 1925 case of Tennessee -vs- John Scopes was the biggest thing to happen in national news. Thanks to the growing popularity of radio, virtually the entire country participated in the "play by play." It is amazing how history repeats itself. Some of the Christian conservative coalition members have compared and contrasted themselves vis a vis moderate & liberal voices of BOTH political parties. The fervor of these participants is evangelic, as in a tent revival meeting. Some of their opponents counter with allegations that the fundamentalist values candidates, metaphorically speaking, belong to the equivalent of the Flat Earth Society. It was inspirational when public school teacher John Scopes had the courage to risk his job (and even his career) challenging Tennessee's ban on the teaching of Darwinian evolution.

January 18, 2012 12:43 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

Umm- I had to comment. That pic is so cool! I love projects that turn about to be pieces of pure cultural art. FYI-My mom was a waitress and saved her tip money to buy me that bike in 1968 for my birthday. I think about all she did for me and I get all misty eyed. The greatest joys are a result of sacrifice. We didn't have much but we had everything.

SIL2- but remember Seinfeld when Kramer fed those horses the wrong thing and it made the buggy ride an eventful evening.

January 18, 2012 12:45 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Spring Fragrance:  Are you sitting down?  I agree with your comment re: interglacial periods.  Will wonders never cease?   

January 18, 2012 1:02 PM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

Tommy Typical....today..i saw your banana sit bike...we had Schwins, the coolest bike of the siblings is when my younger brother got a bright yellow Schwin..Stingray...really cool and what a ride..even though i had a sparkling blue schwim girls bike i rode the three brothers bike, when there were not looking....the Schwin bike repair man was like the "greatest on earth-man...."running to the mall.
good one on the Seinfeld...fed horse.storykick..i sometimes toss the polo ball...out too far...

January 18, 2012 1:07 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Then again, this is a hot subject (hot - get it?) today, because later today one of Obama's mouthpieces from the DOE will announce that he's saying NO to the proposed Keystone pipeline, and Canada will, therefore, go into negotiations with CHINA, who's more than willing...clearly Obama, soon to be Former president, cares more about the money he's getting paid by the environmentalists, than he does about jobs - right now - for the upwards of 25-30 million Americans who are out of work as I write. (Actual numbers, not Obama faux numbers) Fine, worry about climate warming, it might happen, it might not, it won't be fast, that's for sure - but right now, we need to take care of what needs taking care of right now.  That's just logical, a clear and simple plain as the nose on your face common sense approach to our multiple problems........... And if we do that, take care of the present, then the windmills will take care of themselves -- "going forward."

January 18, 2012 1:08 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

Stingray. Yeah. Metal flake colors were sweet and had cool names.

January 18, 2012 1:12 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

 
 
yeah, park4
 
I don't think we could survive another 4 of "O".
Let's hope enough people WAKE THE HELL UP and that the other guys can find a suitable horse to put in the rqce.

January 18, 2012 1:21 PM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

I have been patiently biding my time to ask how many of you found J. Peterman from Seinfeld. I did.

And, to answer the question about the collapse of ancient civilizations and climate change: yes, sort of. The Maya collapse (which is now called a transition, because the civilization continued to thrive, even though they didn't produce as much "high culture" as they did during the Classic period) is now argued to have been caused by a number of social factors exacerbated by climate change and resource mismanagement. Climate change (in this case a hot and dry spell in the 800s-900s CE caused stress on their subsistence base. They were also burning/chopping down a ton of trees (and other resources) for cooking and construction projects. Finally, Maya leaders failed to mitigate the situation and organization suffered (one of the ruler's principal jobs was interceding on behalf of the local community with supernatural forces, such as those that provided rain). It wasn't just climate, but it certainly was a contributing factor. This is a condensed and simplified version, but it is the view of quite a few Mayanists.

January 18, 2012 1:39 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Hi SAJ Johnson:  welcome...and I've got a question.  How do the Mayanists know that "Maya leaders failed to mitigate the situation and orgaization suffered"?  Isn't that based more on opinion, extrapolated from here and there writings and knitted together?I'm probably flying too close to the sun here in an attempt to say that interpretations can oftentimes be used by both sides to support their opposing arguments...what is this based on, I guess is what I'm asking..........  As for discovering Peterman on Seinfeld, I already knew and was receiving the Peterman catalogs when "J. Peterman" appeared out of the night on that episode, and confronted Elaine - I'd already been buying Peterman for several years when I saw that - I suspect you're a bit younger than I, since a lot of people younger than I - so it seems - first heard of J. Peterman from Seinfeld.  ... I enjoyed the Peterman vignettes on Seinfeld though - it was really well done by the writers and John Hurley...

January 18, 2012 1:40 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

that would be "organization" (above) not "orgaization" which isn't even a good non-word that we could play with.

January 18, 2012 1:41 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Hello Miss Blue: they sure as hell better WAKE THE HELL UP, or we're all going to be up a crik without a shovel.  Or something like that.

January 18, 2012 1:43 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

 All the glaciers in Mt. Rainier Nat,l. Park ar much small er now than they have been in anyones memory. One that is most apparant is one that you ,at one time, could get out of your auto and walk about 30 or so feet and be on the glacier. Lots of people would take pictures, picnic and just covort and generally just have fun playing on snow and ice in July and August. Now to reach the glacier you need to park and walk about a half of a mile to reach any snow or ice. This is true of all the ice fields inathe park as well as glaciers on Mt. Adams, St. Helens, Glacier Peak , Mt Hood and all the Cascade  range in Wa. and Ore. If not man made he is at least a contributer to the process.

How many jobs were lost and/or shipped overseas under the last president? Being an independent and living in a very right wing area makes for a lot fun. Lets blame every thing on liberals, espically on Obama after all who does he think he is and what gave him the right to even run for president? And for the Bush tax policies helping employment, they have been in place for over 10 years so where are all the jobe that were supposed to be created? Maybe we need to invade another country for no good reason  ?

January 18, 2012 2:28 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

rwh1:  get a grip.  In your anti-rght wing zeal, you're sounding very very foolish.

January 18, 2012 2:28 PM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

 Paolos and George Hall good comments; i am still situating the navigational brainwaves of communicating by my  typing/ cybe-rwriting, we also, wouldn't be able to meet on the "eye," ....if we are going to be able to continue to write in this Socrates Salon..your actually helping me THINK....we get to joking around a bit too. just to cope...with the North American Continnent that we live on....we need to write to our representatives in congress to prevent this bill being approved on censorship... with an introduced bill on censorship on the 24th of this month;  i am so glad that someone else had the idea first.with using the Volcanos to help with garbage disposal...if i recall, there is a history of sacred reasons that surround the idea, too..not to use volcanos for this purpose...and thats why i suggested one has to study what happens if we add fuel to the fire......maybe for good reason...cause more pollution.. cause and affect...first, one had this idea, then it helped with changing how we can resolve a problem; changing thoughts and perceptions...of opinions is hard to comeby with people at times.....ideas  ...came from someone thinking..Water is our lifesource and must be protected...
 .Poverty has inflicted so many...all over the world...there is also, soul poverty...a belief system is a human support system and there are so many systems...some dominant... hope, all agree we need to stop hunger, pollution, and soul poverty.....we can do this ...by being more self -sustainable...i am working on it right, now, too...educating on how to farm; volunteer at food banks; etc....i and others are having an health expo in April, I am studying quantum physics... once we can fix problems it will help others too...I volunteer everyday....in hopes of changing my community into a more sustainable and healthy environment, ie.,  we definitly have increaseing numbers of people with cancer  and are food banks are providing more food to others than ever before...and being a "helping participant..". in life,  and continue to do so... not only do i try to help the 2 acres around me but i look at the world...and its survival...trades...techniques...missions...outcomes on mortality...
 At this time, to answer the question on my stance on how pollution affects our unnormal temperature "Climate,"is as follows: To control pollution and the saving of our sustainable environments, We need to follow through with the Clean Air and Water Act..in every state of this country...to help preserve and protect our Nation for the futrue of generations sustainablility.. so if power plants need more scrubbers that cost millions...to prevent the omission of Mercury; we need those items paid for..to help protect the communities.... a healthy environment..equates prosperous life existence....

January 18, 2012 2:33 PM
10041_445991248814972_692962064_n Com-100Com-300First-comHr-1 The Giraffe said...

Interesting comments - it seems to be getting warmer, at least in the DC area for the last few years.  The summers are hotter and are hotter longer.  The winter's have been faairly mild, I'm saying this with crossed fingers.  We've had very little really cold weather and it's mid-January.
 
Where is Stoney - he is definitely AWOL.  Did he mention going on holiday the last time he posted?

January 18, 2012 2:33 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Park4, well said.

One thing is for sure, Bush getting blamed for everything from global warming to hoof and mouth disease. Its gotten comical. Election coming up and still blaming the man.

Puuleaae.

January 18, 2012 2:42 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

Last winter, 2010-2011 was the coldest recorded in Georgia...so you'd have a hard time convincing folks down here that we are suffering from global warming. We has so much ice and snow that roads were closed, schools lost weeks, and crops were damaged. Just now, WA and OR are enduring extreme cold and ice, too. As it melts in one area, the earth seems to compensate by freezing more in another (N. Pole ice melting, Antarctica freezing deeper), so we'd have to live longer than a normal lifetime to really be affected by this so-called global warmup....which many scientists believe is a cycle or phase of the earth's natural balancing itself.

http://southeastfarmpress.com/management/georgia-eyes-coldest-winter-ever

There are no easy answers and no innocent politicians for America's problems. Reactionary swings usually occur when there is strong feeling about a leader or congress, so it will not be a surprise to see the country go to the other extreme from the current admin.'s liberalism and spending. I will vote for Mickey or Minnie before renewing BO's lease.

January 18, 2012 2:47 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

Don't know why I keep hitting S for D....could it be that the letters are next to each other? Sorry for the has when I meant had.

SAJJohnson, you make a lot of sense! Good postings! Likewise, Bebe, Blue, Bert....SILady, not so much...I am having a difficult time figuring out what you are saying...are you channeling Faulkner?

Where is Stoney? Anyone?? And where is Hazel today?

January 18, 2012 3:03 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Stoney....................

January 18, 2012 3:05 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

and now for a thought that is ,er,maybe a little to "out there" for some : this is not,afterall, a flat world; and so, when it is too hot "down Under (Aussies could tell ya a thing or two) it displaces some of the cold air up here...am I getting thru?~? And if you've ever been hitwith a dry,powder snowball, versus the wetter kind, you have a real understanding of the energy coefficient of water- - now figure out that,Down Under,where it is hotter,is seperated from us by a lot of water,and the heat,down there(remember? it is Summer there right now)is putting more water in the air (evaporation)and that water/air combination hholds energy(like the wetter snowball)and we get chaaotic weather patterns- - not actually for the planet, but for recorded history....do you really think the great lakes got filled up overnight? 

And,for those that are strict non-darwinians...on which day were the fossils created?

January 18, 2012 3:11 PM
P1010179 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1 S. A. J. Johnson said...

Hello Park4,
Certainly a fair question. We do have texts from this period, but Maya rulers liked to talk about themselves, not civil unrest. It is well-documented that Mesoamerican rulers were the conduit between us mere mortals and divine beings. Their legitimization and power stemmed from this role. As far as I know, we do not have direct evidence of Maya commoners rising up and deposing or just abandoning the large Classic-period cities. Many large cities were abandoned and elite activities (supported by non-elite labor) decreased in the southern areas. At this time, civil unrest stemming from the perceived failure of Maya rulers seems to be the most likely scenario, but not the only one! The increase in evidence of demographic warfare from this late time period also suggest social stress was rising.

For my birthday, my wife signed me up for the J. Peterman catalog. We're both big Seinfeld fans and were delighted to find out that it was a real company. It was a nice surprise for my birthday.



January 18, 2012 3:15 PM
4188 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Penelopetx said...

Welcome Umgawa!  Loved the bike pic.  I used to have one with a banana seat and it was metal flaked PURPLE!!!  I love that color!  We used to ride all over the place, go back in the fields, dewberry picking, capturing and releasing frogs.  Avoiding snakes.
 
Good times.
 
 
It was fun.

January 18, 2012 3:19 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Well this is another one of many enormous problems facing this plant, this home of ours that I do not have what it takes to wrap my arms around, or even dare to dream to come up whom to point the fickle finger of blame, let alone a doable, silver bullet solution.

I do my best to be thoughtful of my actions.....evaluate the long, as well as the short term consequences of my actions; and make the best, hopefully well informed choices I can. No big deal, just what I see as the minimum requirement for having the privelege of living on this planet and in relative comfort.

I have, I believe....become better informed of the issues at hand and I thank the many who have posted their obviously well informed and thoughtful comments. For this, I doff my cap in your direction.

For those who feel the need to just stir the pot by doing silly things like diminishing the entire population of several states in order to elevate their stature.....that just seems like a waste of obviously better than average talent to become the "worlds tallest midget". It only detracts from the positive side of one's scale....so why bother?

I keep telling myself that I won't take the bait. That I will just ignore and simply skim over such comments.. But alas, I failed again

In the words of Wild Bill Hickock as portrayed on the HBO series Deadwood, if irritating me is the jackpot, you got the job done......... Which is only important to me and won't influence anyone's behavior, or save the world....but it feels good none-the-less.

Bebe, i would follow you into battle anytime........ For a cheeseburger tomorrow

January 18, 2012 3:25 PM
4188 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Penelopetx said...

Back in college, I was a catalog hound, loved to received anything in the mail and catalogs counted!!!  I recieved the J. Peterman catalog, but could not afford the items in it.  BUT, it was mail!
 
Never watched Sienfield, Never like Sienfield.  Probably blasphemous in this village, but there I said it.

January 18, 2012 3:40 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

For you Darwinians-what happened before the "big bang". Who lit the fuse, who created the fuse and the match that lit it?

January 18, 2012 3:48 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

I don't know Roadyacht, but some Brit scientists just found some that Darwin lost:

 
 
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/story/2012-01-17/darwin-fossils-found/52620186/1
 
 
 
And thanks Umgawwa, it's always good to have you in my corner on an opinion.  This all  just seems so obvious to me, like open your eyes people - Speaker Gingrich just called Obama's rejecting the Keystone pipeline (and blaming it on the Sec. of State, Hilary Clinton no less) "stunningly stupid."  I love a man who says it like it is.  As for them blaming Bush, it would be comical, I agree, if it weren't so ignorant and transparent.  "Puh-leeze" is right.
 
And thank you S.A.J Johnson, I appreciate your reply.  And those catalogs are great aren't they?  better than a lot of books I've read lately.  I often wish Peterman would collect the stories into a book of some sort - with illustrations.  I'd buy it, for sure.  Always fun to look forward to, the Catalog.
 
PeterLake:  hello.  Good to see you ruffled feathers and all.  Lola must love it when your feathers get ruffled...<smile>
 
 

January 18, 2012 3:50 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Ummgawa.  I misspelled your name, again.  My apologies.

January 18, 2012 4:09 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Not a priblem....

January 18, 2012 4:28 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

OK, so I read that a few here were lamenting about their long ago Schwinn Stingrays. I even read mention of a yellow metal flake one with a banana seat.

Check this one out, also a restoration I did, just for my little 10 year old daughter.

http://www.petermanseye.com/photos/570381

I added the "sissy bar", but the rest is how Schwinn sold it. I just took it apart and carefully restored it back to it's original glory for her to enjoy.

January 18, 2012 4:36 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

 
I'm okay. Thanks for asking.
Crank it...

http://youtu.be/ZoJz2SANTyo

January 18, 2012 4:38 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Peneloplex - you are not alone on Sienfeld.

Park - you know that Lola gets what......

How i found Peterman - I was introduced to the Owners Manual via the add section of the New York Times Sunday Magazine around '83. It was on the far right column of the page and featured the duster of course, as well as information on how to get on the mailing list.

January 18, 2012 4:42 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

One thing about politics is that it just as easy to get either right wing types or left wing types to go off with just a few well placed words. Makes politics kinda fun.Years ago I found that you can,t get someone to change their views by using reason or logic. No one canbe reasoned out of what they did not get into with reason.so I never really try to change anyones mind about politics, religion or sports. Just try to have a little fun to see what responses come. Its  like walking into a sports bar in Denver when the broncs are playing and even without knowing the other team and mention to another patron that Denver doesn,t have a chance. It helps make life interesting.

January 18, 2012 4:48 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

ROAD YACHT and Ummgawa ~ Being both a Darwinian and
a non Darwinian, depending on the tilt of the earth at the time of questioning,
I can responsibly answer both questions on GOOD authority. 
 
Fossils were created on Fossilday.  Fossilday was
renamed by the Normans shortly after the battle of Hastings.  The last surviving
Norman (George Wendt) is not able to tell us how it was renamed, I suspect it
was Wendtsday because George Wodent is an old fossil himself.
 
The lighter and maker of the fuse and the maker of
the match, indeed the Maker of all Things or the MOAT as commonly expressed by
those in the loop, neither created nor lit any of those things to produce the
big bang. Eruptus amplus as it was known in ancient Rome and today is loosely
translated as the big bang was produced after a disquieting meal by one of the
holy trinity, difficult to say exactly which one because they each point the
finger in another's direction.  It would almost be comical except for the
serious ramifications for the rest of us trying to look guiltless. 
 
SSSSSTTTTOOOOONNNNNNEEEEYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's a tooth
man.  Take some drugs and tell us a tale of how you once outwitted Bugsy Malone
the day he stopped in to buy a chocolate malted at your great uncle's general
grocery and merchandise outpost.

January 18, 2012 4:53 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

Really meant to avoid  this, for the Third time ... but each time I check-by, my resolve has weaken'd ...
 
It Takes more Faith  NOT  to believe in God, than it does to believe in Him, with a Universe of evidence to the extstence of Him extant .......
 
"Global Warming" is as Bogus as Evolution ... To believe in either, one would first have to believe that The Creater of the Universe, and all of us ... was so stupid that He never thought about all this catastrophic claptrap, when He laid out the Plans for this place, and then fix'd things so that the bad stuff would not happen .......
 
Is a Merciful God going to let any of us be hurt because  WE are stupid ??? What the Hell kind of Mercy would that be ???
 
" A general dissolution of Principles and Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America, than the whole force of the Common Enemy ... While the People are virtuous, they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their Liberties to the first external, or internal  Invader "...  Samuel Adams  1779
 
Moral Decay begets the destruction of every thing else .......
 
 
But there are those, I am sure ... who believe that it is all Bush's Fault .......
 
 

January 18, 2012 4:55 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

Samuel Adams, by the way ... Does make Good Beer !!!

January 18, 2012 5:06 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

Not here to debate Darwin. But have you ever seen that documentary on Oliver the humanzee. It so freaked out my teenage daughter at the time that she stopped liking stuffed monkey/ape toys or artwork. I was skeptical of the whole thing but when it stands up and has a drink and a cigar and tried to have sex with its owner with that mug that looked like the muscle in an old Gangster Movie it was interesting to say the least. There are many video clips of him.

January 18, 2012 5:19 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

T~ Would you debate Darwin if he were here?

January 18, 2012 5:33 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

P- you betcha. I would adapt and evolve. Play The Kinks, have either a Macro or Micro Brew and Scopes him out. I really don't see why you can't both create and evolve being a Tommy Aquinas type.

January 18, 2012 5:33 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

PL found Peterman much as you did, but in The New Yorker.

STONEY thank you!

January 18, 2012 6:16 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

I found Peterman in Lear magazine in the early 90s. That went away, but my love for Peterman never did - and now I can finally afford to purchase things, so that's a benefit!
 
I will not say much about politics, except to say that no matter what goes on on the national stage, I pity the fool who has the gumption to take on governing the State of California.

January 18, 2012 6:26 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Ivan, how'd you get to be so smart?;) pbb

January 18, 2012 6:29 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

CD ~ Peterman was lost?
 
Miss Cassiepants ~ I concur.  They are a most
ungovernable lot.  Take our own Miss Jane for example and that Isles fellow.  Whatever became of him?

January 18, 2012 6:38 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


rwh1 ~
I bet you know a whole lot about what those challenged tavern patrons look like... from the back.
Some of just stay home if we have nothing positive to add to a social mix.

January 18, 2012 6:45 PM
10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Cassiepants said...

Paolos~ I, of course, have to include myself in the ungovernable Californians - socially liberal, but fiscally wondering why exactly we're spending so much money to blow stuff up in other countries when we need a few rebuilt bridges and a kid or two who could engineer us into the future - they'd be cheaper than stealthbombers too...  The CA state legislature - Dems and Repubs alike - are the most intractable uncompromising lot - they probably think that Hollywood is responsible for global warming, cooling, and the price of tea in China. (Wait. That would mean that they agree on something. So even THAT analogy is wrong.)

January 18, 2012 7:41 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

2500 people lost jobs today in St Croix. Quotes and thoughts-The giant HOVENSA oil refinery that has dominated the economy and part of the landscape of the island of St. Croix for decades will cease operations in February, 2012. The refinery, the largest employer in the U.S. Virgin Islands and once one of the largest refiners in the Western Hemisphere. Losses at the refinery have totaled $1.3 billion in the past three years alone and were projected to continue. These losses have been caused primarily by weakness in demand for refined petroleum products due to the global economic slowdown and the addition of new refining capacity in emerging markets. In the past three years, these factors have caused the closure of approximately 18 refineries in the United States and Europe with capacity totaling more than 2 million barrels of oil per day. In addition, the low price of natural gas in the United States has put our oil-fueled refinery at a competitive disadvantage, Lever said in a statement. There are unintended consequences for everything we do. Our transition from fossil fuels whether effecting the environment or not is not easy because the demand is increasing so fast. Be careful what you wish for and at what speed your wish comes true.

January 18, 2012 7:52 PM
13091 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 janej78 said...

Penelopetx...you aren't alone. I've never cared for Jerry Seinfeld and never watched a single episode

January 18, 2012 8:02 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PL....................I am so easy, I'll do anything for a cheeseburger w/ pickle chips & mustard..................mmmmmmmmmm..........................it's kind of lik a train wreck, you know you should look away, but you can't. Ot two people publicly revealing their lust, you know you SHOULD look away, but again......you just can't. It was one of those situations.
 
UMM....................your 12:27 made me crack up....................
 
SAJ J......................I too like CHEFD found it in the New Yorker.
 
STONEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYY...................good to see you, good to see
you....................
 
PARK & MISS BLUE & PAOLOS......................great comments & questions.............
 
MOOSE.................maybe Kerouac......................
 
HEY JANE......................forgot to say hello this morning. I was too busy gaping. I am rude. HUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
 
 

January 18, 2012 8:14 PM
13091 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 janej78 said...

Bebe, you're on my wavelength again. I love cheeseburgers and made some yesterday... ate 2 ... Mustard and pickle chips on both, with a slice of onion on one....both very yummy. Now I'm going to finish my lunch which is the second half of a carnitas burrito....oh no... it's close to dinner...no, I'll have a late dinner...this will be an appetizer.

January 18, 2012 8:20 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

Good night bebe...


Ooohhhh I could eat a cheese burger right now the size of Al Gore's carbon footprint!

January 18, 2012 8:50 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

I could use a slider.  Or five.  I can make a pretty good slider, one of my few chef-y type things I can accomplish.  Dayam.  I want several.  Now.   ..... Hello Sir Stoney!    You brought the Raid, I see.  A little spray will do it.  Temporarily, anyhow.

January 18, 2012 8:52 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

laughing out loud, Miss Blue.  Wit and hamburgers, what a great combination.

January 18, 2012 8:53 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

I discovered Peterman in his early days when I spotted the catalog in the U.S Mail where I  worked 36 years.....followed him through his loss of the business then by shear genius bought it back from the people who mismanaged it almost into nonexistance. In the early days the people who handled telephone orders knew him personnaly and would give updates on the company's (mis)fortunes if you asked.  

January 18, 2012 9:12 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Park4 at 1245- that was funny! I may not have said it, but there have been many times I am on the same side as you.

We may argue for or against GW but i has been said that if the levels of consumption enjoyed by the most affluent today was to be replicated across just half of the estimated 9 billion people on planet earth in 2050, the impact on our water supply air quality, forests, biological diversity, human health and climate would be catastophic. Should we deny those in quickly developing countries a better quality of life?  Realistically, redistribution is probably the way to go. Consider that:  

The United States, though housing less than 5 % of the global population, uses about ¼ of the world's fossil fuel resources (burning up almost 25 % of the coal, 26 % of the oil, and 27 % of the world's natural gas)
The U.S. had more private cars than licensed drivers, and (at least till recently)gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles were among the best-selling vehicles.

Australia has entered the hall of fame however, holding the world's largest homes now at 2616 sq ft beating American homes which dropped in the last 3 years to 2390 sq ft.  The largest homes are found in Denmark, at only 1475 sq ft

January 18, 2012 9:18 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

George, I bought his products up until the end but when they had that tv special and he got in his pickup and drove away I identified with him more than ever. Being a capitalist myself I ran a company or two in the ground and there is not a lonelier moment than leaving behind your "baby" & like a bad romance, the only way to get over it is to find a new one, a better one. I have read his book a half a dozen times and love the example of the big boulder rolling behind Indy. It's a jungle out there Kiddies and if you play then at the very least you should do it with style, though I could never get used to that monacle.

January 18, 2012 9:39 PM
First-com mopoke said...

Follow the money and you will see why we have so many views on climate change (as we recall was once referred to as Global warming but that became a bit incovenient).  As in political campaigns,  some scientists seemed to have changed the message for funding convenience.  That is a such a pity really because it is difficult to decide who is the master - scientific evidence of the love of money to fund scientific research.  Peterman......that farm in Kentucky....I have one in the Southern Hemisphere and I will say that  in addition to working hard. I pay close attention to my senses.   I read the plants and observe animal behaviour.   They relentlessly try to adapt to change and are pretty successful..........while we continue to debate a lot.  One day we will have missed all the signs and won't know what to do.   In my opinion improving our own sense of what is happening around us is more reliable than graphs, charts, hockey sticks. 

January 18, 2012 9:39 PM
First-com mopoke said...

Follow the money and you will see why we have so many views on climate change (as we recall was once referred to as Global warming but that became a bit incovenient).  As in political campaigns,  some scientists seemed to have changed the message for funding convenience.  That is a such a pity really because it is difficult to decide who is the master - scientific evidence of the love of money to fund scientific research.  Peterman......that farm in Kentucky....I have one in the Southern Hemisphere and I will say that  in addition to working hard. I pay close attention to my senses.   I read the plants and observe animal behaviour.   They relentlessly try to adapt to change and are pretty successful..........while we continue to debate a lot.  One day we will have missed all the signs and won't know what to do.   In my opinion improving our own sense of what is happening around us is more reliable than graphs, charts, hockey sticks. 

January 18, 2012 9:40 PM
First-com mopoke said...

Follow the money and you will see why we have so many views on climate change (as we recall was once referred to as Global warming but that became a bit incovenient).  As in political campaigns,  some scientists seemed to have changed the message for funding convenience.  That is a such a pity really because it is difficult to decide who is the master - scientific evidence of the love of money to fund scientific research.  Peterman......that farm in Kentucky....I have one in the Southern Hemisphere and I will say that  in addition to working hard. I pay close attention to my senses.   I read the plants and observe animal behaviour.   They relentlessly try to adapt to change and are pretty successful..........while we continue to debate a lot.  One day we will have missed all the signs and won't know what to do.   In my opinion improving our own sense of what is happening around us is more reliable than graphs, charts, hockey sticks. 

January 18, 2012 9:46 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Paolos....... I can definitely buy into your creation theory.

Bebe, I have one word for you....... Double Cheeseburger...... Now wer're talking climate change!

January 18, 2012 9:51 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

MISS PARK:  Every thing I am, and every thing I have are Blessings ... and for most of my life, I have striven to make the Highest and Best use of them all ... Not always successful , I am ashamed to say ... but I do the Best I can ... the rest of it is just hangin' around for so long, that one is bound to learn SOMEthimg, if only by osmosis .......

January 18, 2012 10:00 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

rwh1, park4, in fact everyone, I entreat you to please read this article which addresses "Three misconceptions that need to die". It is one of the most enlightening piece I have read this year. The misconceptions are: 
 
1. Most of what Americans spend their money on is made in China.
2. The US owes most of our debt to China 
3. America gets most of her oil from the Middle East 

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/10/25/3-misconceptions-that-need-to-die.aspx#commentsBoxAnchor


I agree with SAJJ that states (southern and western?) which are giving their students a sub-modern science education will be holding them back. According to a recent article, the best and worst state for Maths and Science is Massachusetts and Mississippi respectively.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/state-education-rankings-_n_894528.html  ;


Want to know what your state is worst known and best known for?  This will likely stir up more debate


http://flowingdata.com/2011/01/30/what-your-state-is-the-worst-at-united-states-of-shame/

January 18, 2012 10:00 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

TOMMY:  We watched Charleton Heston dancing on the Beach with a Monkey-Girl(who did bear a remarkable resemblance to Dorothy Kilgallen) and you think that something like that can't be faked ???
 
Read the History of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his, "Discovery" of The Piltdown Man ... and that was long before Hollywood and Computer Graphics, back when the only thing people knew about Digital, was a Finger Wave .......  Next, Turn Your Head and Cough ...

January 18, 2012 10:08 PM
Feet_up 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Thomas Typicalis said...

Ivan- Yep. That's what I was clumsily trying to say. PT Barnum returns with cable shows and news organizations. When switching dr's a digital analysis may make sense. Your comment about blessings is my truth. Everyday is a bonus. As the pee stream weakens the spirit is strengthened.

January 18, 2012 10:15 PM
First-com Anam Cara said...

Oh my!! I can just see our glorious creator looking down and thinking, just what fools we mortals be. Of course there will be climate change. There always has been and there always will be. Only problem was that back in the days of the dinosaurs etc., there was no one there to record such events. Now that's ALL taken care of because the political pundits have  wrapped their collective grey matter around the situation and we now have Taaaaaaaa----daaaaaaaaaaaa...GLOBAL WARMING!! BE VERY AFRAID!!! MOMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

January 18, 2012 10:16 PM
First-com Anam Cara said...

K you guys, I'll take me double cheeseburger now and some of that hot buttered rum Mr. Peterman spoke of recently.

January 18, 2012 10:20 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

SF ~ Just from looking at the map I would have expected Florida to have Louisiana's shame.

January 18, 2012 10:22 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

TT.................I have never heard of the humanzee & it sounds utterly creepy. Is your daughter scarred for life????????????????????? I had no idea that there was a Peterman special. I would like to see that.
 
SPRING...................this year my district decided to do away w/ social studies & science ( now they will say otherwise but we don't use the books & go off into tangents of talk like before. Now they get a worksheet w/ questions geared to the test they will take in 3rd grade. No context to anything, no nothing. It is shameful, utterly shameful. It is most cruel to retard a child's growth to keep your job as a superintendent. And yet these kids will get into college w/ the VERY limited knowledge that they possess. That is a whole nother story for a whole nother time.......................) need I say more???????? and so it goes, and so it goes........................If i just one day go out of my mind & occupy the ETS building you will know why. Arnie Duncan is a criminal & a liar as far as I'm concerned.
 
G'night MISS BLUE.................ain't a cheeseburger grand!
 
JANE...................i just finished some shrimp & they were delish!

January 18, 2012 10:44 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

 
 To answer the question of the day,
only pontification shortchanges education.  Honest and open discussions will
always lead intelligent and free thinking people to my conclusions. That
concludes my thinking for today, might even be enough to last me the rest of the
week. 
 
Miss Bebe ~ One of my favorite meals,
fresh gulf shrimp followed with Skyline...Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
G'night all.
 

January 18, 2012 10:44 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PAOLOS.................you are in grand form tonight & I for one love it!

January 18, 2012 10:47 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

RY Wow. I had forgotten that song! I danced to it for years and included it in many a mix tape. Thanks for revving up some great memories.

January 18, 2012 11:03 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

and if you really worry about global warming, I just read a story about  farts in space! Google it if you dont believe

January 18, 2012 11:06 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

and just one more thing:does the global climate change subject seem to come up,co-incidently, at the same time there are so many political commercials?

January 18, 2012 11:09 PM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Hmmmmwas just musing, that's all,...I don't have a hog in this fight

January 18, 2012 11:20 PM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Paolos, i shall look at the map again, I am not familiar enough with the peculiarties of each state but I shall learn.
 
Bebe, I am so sorry to hear that. I can feel your frustration and, from the other teachers here too. American have a long tradition of innovation and creativity, and the kids deserve a fair go (a very Aussie saying).
 
RY I forgot to say that your earliest comments about downunder was funny! I remember what I had been told by a tradesman...aircon at the top, heater at the bottom...hot air rises, cold air sinks

January 18, 2012 11:52 PM
13091 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 janej78 said...

Some of the best and worst of the states were funny...yep, there's a counterpoint map. A couple of examples;
 
Utah.... worst ... porn usage
Utah...best ... highest reported wellbeing
 
Colorado...worst...cocaine use
Colorado... best... lowest obesity
 
haha, Paolo...Louisiana has the biggest port!
 
Bebe...I love shrimp
 
 

January 19, 2012 3:21 AM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Haha Jane!! That is funny, I was at work so didn't hv time to really look. I must!

Honor Roll


As I told my class on Tuesday, "belief" is an inappropriate word in this context.  Nobody sh...

-S. A. J. Johnson

Jan. 18, 2012 12:45 AM

read full opinion



Yesterday's Discussion

Hot buttered Rum may be more significant than you think.

 

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