Taboo

The big problem with sexual congress in the Arab world is that, in the minds of men, the act is supposed to require perhaps 10 seconds.
 
I am not sure if a formal study has been done on animal incest, but I know for sure that among horses (the animal I know best) it doesn't happen.
 
With the flurry of states recently giving permission for same-sex marriage, I cannot help but repeat the tawdry but funny line a (male) friend has uttered:"I'm for same-sex marriage as long as both chicks are hot!"

It's well worth pointing out that Cook's gracious gift of the word taboo didn't save him from ending up as a Hawaiian Baked Dead British Fellow, having his tasty flesh (it's controversial to this day whether he was served with poi) removed and his bones honorably interred.  Mine where you muck about in the world, messing with local politics and transplanting cultural memes;  that's the lesson of Capt.  James Cook.  Though I'd personally be happy knowing that somebody went to bed one night, fat and happy, scratching their bloated tummy, all on the strength of a good haunch of mine - roasted with a cherry glaze, or perhaps with mint jelly and a side of bubble & squeak.  

k.a.a.....if you look to nature, other than that of the human nature, one might observe, that it balances itself.  do the birds of a feather flock together?  hummingbirds breed amongest themselves, blue jays, eagles, geese, etc, don't breed outside of their own breed.  exceptions, rarely if ever.  animals have a pecking order of alphaism..survival of the fittest. my thoughts are based on observation.  cats, are interesting to me, domesticated, yet one male will kill another for breeding rights...horses too, if left wild.  i don't believe they castrate themselves, as in a gelding. if left without human intervention, the weak don't survive.  tough to watch at times, a mother push a bad egg from the nest.
the level of awareness is primal, primitive to the enlightened, yet balanced in the outcome.
 
humans have an intelligence, only observable from the human point of view.
 
the greates taboo for humans, is ignorance.

collective thinking is powerful, yet sometimes outside of the collective group seems bizarre to those of another.  knowledge and compassion might bring understanding, yet not acceptance.  what a unique creature man is! 

that's it from the cuukoo's nest observation point, arguable? no doubt, agreeable? perhaps.  relative? depends on perception.  we're packing to take a flight to vegas for a weekend of celebrattion of our anniversary. (that's the excuse we created in our plot after yoga tuesday night, to come to ohm's with life) we've booked massages, comedy shows, and one item from my no regrets list, skydiving at sunrise over the desert.  we fly in and pick up a harley and are riding our way around the strip and surrounding desert. 
 
taboo? flying, riding harleys, skydiving, gambling, drinking......perhaps, to some. 
not to our micro of 2.  empty nesters right to flight.

There are so many taboos that we now laugh about:  a woman showing her ankles or the nape of her neck; a bathing suit that didn't cover it all.  Those taboos are better gone except in the case of Speedos and old men.......ewwwww. 
 
However, and this should really be a different category, incest is a horrendous traumatizing experience especially when one understands that we're not just speaking of consenting adults or marriage between cousins but includes all those children who are being abused on a regular basis by the people who are entrusted with their care. 
 
Killing...... in the name of religion....or belief.  Today's news has an example of that.  The attack on the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC.  The killing of an abortion doctor. I'm at a loss to understand the thinking behind such an act or how a that helps. 

question everything? is only my pov.....hubster still sleeping peacfully. so i have time.
 
does the tsunami purposefully pick to kill 100,'s of thousands?, or did the 100's x choose to live in a tsunami region.  is it tragic, yes, preventable? no.
 
decisions are based on information.  how reliable is the data?  who's presenting it? and with what intent?
 
from the beginning of history, hasn't religion:
 

re·li·gion [ ri líjjən ] (plural re·li·gions)

noun 

Definition:

1. beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

been the foundation for all war?

 andy
"Killing...... in the name of religion....or belief.  Today's news has an example of that.  The attack on the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC.  The killing of an abortion doctor. I'm at a loss to understand the thinking behind such an act or how a that helps. "
 
what about the story that received little coverage,( that happened in this state, therefore local coverage, but not much national) the black muslim man killing a white military man in a recruit office.  makes one hang your head to ponder the inconceivable.
 
yesterdays reference to a bad apple.....if there's one bad apple in the crate?, are all bad?
 
i personally can't understand, much less comprehend how anybody could kill another human being, for just being different, and i'm glad i can't.  does it happen? yes. 
 
on the other hand, should someone break into my home or force their way on me, would i defend myself......absolutely.   
 
information out is only as good as the information in.
 
 

Cuukoo,
  Well said on both posts.  I fear adding to it would only distract.  So I'll go off on two different and risky tangents in mixed company.  The celebration the female orgasm and discrimination. 
 
Now I don't know too much about it because I've never had a female orgasm.  But I do know if its like mine, then celebration is in order.  On that note, I find two kind of men.  Those that are so lost in their own celebration they just don't care about the their mate.  And those that get off when knowing their mate gets off.  In that dynamic whose responsibility is it?  I find that when I take matters in my own hands, pun intended, I can take of my end of the deal.  But for my mate, if there is too much going on upstairs, real or unreal, there ain't nothing happening anywhere else. Totally an the opposite for a man, where the expression take a load off may have a taboo meaning..not sure.   I find it interesting that racial discrimination, as an issue in America primarily exists on a black/white stage.

So two outcomes here carried forward from Peterman; In the laws of nature you may see the head case as birth control.  In the laws of nature of the wild promotion of the species is a priority and therefore the notion of discrimination is an accepted thing.  But we humans also subject ourselves to social cooperation, thought, and choice.  I find it intriguing how the taboo factor found in social conscience is so fickle.  In 1919 mistresses were so accepted that Lloyd George and Wilson went into Paris and settled our world order with socially accepted "mistresses" situations in tow.    Today, with birth control sex has liberated women and orgasms were discovered???!!!  Imagine that.  We talk about it, write about it, but hang ups still exist and mistresses are taboo.  Why is that?  Over the past 30 years I witness more Black/white integration of couples that any other combination of race.  Why is that? 

And for those wondering, no I do not have a mistress, and my wife and I may be from different planets but are of the same race.  Two risky tangents, but I'll blame it on Peterman for broaching it.    The third tangent broached by Peterman is paradigm shift I must make when entertaining the liberating subject of women's orgasms from a book written for an Arab audience where women are oppressed.  No matter the source I may be looking in to it.

p.m.  what a lucky woman your wife is!  lovely, and just wonderful thought provoking comments. 

if i could figure out how to post a visual of how a woman's mind works, i would.  it was an attachment in an email...any tips?

cuuhoo
 
one bad apple will spoil the whole barrel if it is not removed/isolated. The microbes carried by that apple will spread more rapidly to the others causing them to spoil more rapidly. That is the lesson to be learned from nature and that old saying.
 lookes like we still aren't listening.
 
wow.....Saudi women having orgasms.....what next drivers licenses?
 
And, after yesterday's topic, glad to see controversial topics are not taboo here at the EyE.
 
and Just wondering if booboo( a mistake )is a derivitive of taboo?
 
 
 
Jonathan Isles, the back story to Capt Cook.....
when he landed the " natives" informed him that it was their island. His reply was 'bite me !'
The rest is history
 
 
Swami...."how do you like them apples" was first spoken( under her breath of course) by the crone who handed Snow White the poison apples .
 
 
 
have I broken any taboos? Icertainly hope so. ( just kidding)

Cuukoo,
 

I think the notion of religion being the foundation of all war is over done.  You can choose, greed, power, oil, water first.  We did not annihilate our American Indian existence for any religious reasons.  If you look at history of Arabs, very few of their internal wars were about religion but rather power.  While the Popes lit the fire, detailed history showed the Crusaders raping and pillaging their own on the way to the middle east as well as when they got their.   Our Revolutionary War was had nothing to do with religion.  Our civil war had everything to do with the challenge of our own constitution, but nothing to do with religion. WWI was only a continuation of the Crimean War and both were all about the Great Game over the route to India and a warm water port. The Viet Nam was not about religion nor was Korea.    I'll concede that there were many Renaissance Wars attempting to settle Protestant and Catholic rule of mind and taxes, but I am more of the mind that wars may have religious rhetoric but too often different agendas.

Whats going on now has me perplexed.

miss glue
 
"one bad apple will spoil the whole barrel if it is not removed/isolated."
 
removed and isolated stops the rest of the paragraph.
 
 
 
 
 

and yes, the story of the murder of the American soldier is very tragic and scarry, as is Rev Wright's latest rail against Jews and the possibility that there is a chance the Air France tragedy was terror linked after all.
as Bettie Davis said"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpt night."

and the taboo against incest goes wayyyyy back in human history. It was observed that the human herd stayed more healthy with keeping the gene pool as deep as possible.

 
 
Paul Murphy....religions are political institutions. Religion and spirituality have nothing to do with each other.

cuukoo,
 
On the Cooke comment....On the floor laughing. 

Paul...I believe it was I , Miss Blue making the cooke( sorry for the miss spell) comment.

not that it matters...
 

p.m.  good and solid points to ponder. 
 
for me, i don't see each individual sec of religion as in god or not god, jesus or not jesus, or wind spirit or spirits not.  it's a, for me again, for i can only reflect from my perception( good gawd ) belief of something greater than oneself. devine involvement (as in definition above).  before white man's , from vikings on, apperance in the america's, battles between natives were for the hunting ground rights to provide food and substance for their individual tribes families.  take the buffalo, natives used every part of the kill, where when enlightened white man(broad definition) came, they left all but the hide and tongues to rot and waste, other than food to the vultures.
 
lot's to ponder for me, so much in such a relatively short journey. 

   the "white man' migrated form lands where the forrests, were depleted, game scarce and protected for use by royalty( strict poaching laws) and minimal oportunity. They landed on a rich bountiful land. As with our society here today, we( collective use here) tend to waste because we have too much at our disposal and have not been wise keepers. The Lord gave mankind dominion over the earth( according to some scriptures). We have not been wise rulers. Rather we have over taxed and badly used our 'subjects". We are now paying the price.
I havent seen such waste and such a disposable mentality in the oh I hate this term but.......third world.
 
sorry......way off topic.

Miss Blue,
  
Here is a kind of funny story and possibly taboo in terms of diplomacy at least.  On my first trip to Riyadh I get to the gate at Charles de Gaulle Airport that is is the number posted on the signs.  But at the gate it does not specifically say Riyadh and there are quite a few Hot hot babes, scantily dressed and some laying on the laps of their lads.  They could have mistake for Parisian  hot toddies for sure, so I am wondering if I am at the right gate.  Once they start boarding, the announcement sets my mind at ease.  Sitting in first class for the first fours hours of the trip, I forget about my confusion, but remember the hot hot babes.  It's a man thing and we can't help it.  As we cross in to Saudi airspace the Captain's  voice  comes on the  PA and tells us to turn in our liquor and mind the laws of Saudi sovereignty, which also meant taking my crucifix necklace off, but didn't Well this prompted me to get up and stretch the legs.  I looked to the back of the plane and there was an overwhelming sea of black.  So through my whole first experience my imagination ran wild in speculation of what was under those robes.Is it taboo to have a wild imagination?

We would ALL be in jail somewhere if the enforcers of law and taboo  were accurate mind readers.
And under some belief systems, the thought can be as bad as the deed. That is why we are encouraged to keep our hearts and minds 'pure'... hate thet word sometimes too.
 
 
Don't like to think I was being undressed in someone's mind........unless it was my husband's.

Mis Blue and Cuukoo, I got my wires crossed but I am sure you figured that out.

I'm the one who doesn't like cherry kool aid.

and I'm about to break the taboo of a slightly (gag....I'm going to admit it) overweight, middle aged female wiggling into a slightly revealing tank suit. No one else will be out on the Bay today except the local watermen..it's mid week. The paero( the closest thing I hopefully will ever come to a Berka) will cover anything that is hanging a little too far out as we pass the watermen at Bayford.  My husband and I will board our Varna and...   WAAAA HOOOOO    boat ride.

have a great day miss blue and enjoy!!! i enjoyed the exchange of thoughts. 
 
 
 

Ah,yes,to borrow a phrase;"Incest is alright,as long asyou keep it in the family"...at some point,did not we all (as a species) arise from a single breeding pair?At what point did we find that ever deepening gene pool to contain others of our species?These,and others are more than philosophical points, they are the unanswered questions of religion. Adam and Eve? wasn't that incest with their begots?Ahh, religion; there was a recent divorce case because as an agnostic,married to an atheist, could not figure out which religion not to bring their children up in...

back at ya.....enjoy
 
My husband was in Vegas on 9-11 at the National Beer Wholesalers Convention. when i saw the second plane hit the towers, I called him at his hotel and told him to run down to the car rental place immediately and get a car and get out of town. I worried that the creeps would hit the Great Satan in someplace like Vegas....known for being isolated and often called sin city I knew they would be grounding everything for days. He did so and gave a ride home across country to our fiercest compeditors, a father and son.The old guy was 86 and the son waited too late to get a rental. We were at the time a Coors/ Corona/etc house and they were the Bud house. He then organized a  caravan across the desert with numerous vehicles. making sure everyone had packed enough water, blankets, toilet paper, medications etc in case things got really weird( like roads into cities being closed). remember, this was 9-11 and no one knew what would happen next...., different groups spliting off at various places along the way as they got closer to home.One guy had to buy a motor home to get back because all of the rental cars trucks etc were rented already. In this extreme emergency, all convention and taboos were put aside so that the different "tribes" could survive.

   When my husband and I were married we broke a number of local taboos.
 
 
   Back then, a mixed marriage in these parts meant an Episcopalian had married a Methodist !
 
 
 US Supreme Court  Loving Vs Virginia.....1967 a Black/ Native american woman married a white man....got into big trouble.......broke some long standing taboos in this country and state. There were very courageous people. i wonder how many people could be that brave.
 
funny, their name was Loving

Miss Blue,We enjoy the motor home life, hence Roadyacht.We are not full timers, my wife needs the getaway after her chemo,(she is feeling fine,thank you).And as a Renaissance Man, I have those survival abilities, and the knowledge to make a flush toilet work after the revolution .I get to mingle with the "tribes" every weekend, and we are all the same/different. 

Incest has had multiple meanings in different civilizations for millenia, often not unpleasant, but I assume, from Our Host's essay and his parallel-reading offerings that we're speaking of today; of ourselves. Given its countless manifestations, then, in our society, incest remains in my mind the most deplorable act, for I connect it with abuse.

And yet, and yet...within a few miles is a longstanding community of Irish Travelers, of whom there are many in our country and abroad. Locally, we call them "Gypsies," a misnomer that springs from their 'ethic' and work habits: Leaving the women in the trailers of their closed-tight deeply Catholic community, the men travel the country taking advantage of homeowners by offering to 'paint the roof,' whitewash the barn,' anything they think will work. They "do the work,' accept payment from their mostly elderly victims, and depart, never to be seen again. First time it rains, the 'paint' washes off.

Moreover, merchants have long known their proficiency at stealing; in the small locally-owned dress shop that provides me what JP doesn't, 'gypsy alert' is quietly spoken the instant one enters the shop. You can see everything the minute you walk in that small shop, yet careful as they are (all help appear when 'gypsy alert' is sounded), they've lost clothes to Gypsies. Astounding. A friend, manager of a large department, store describes: Stuffing a dress beneath their own, doubling an item 'til it makes a women look pregnant if placed properly, and they're more adept than a cutpurse abroad at slipping things into shopping bags. With increased surveillance now, they're caught more often, but if they get away, and they do, police have no success locating them, once'within the community.' They've intermarried for so long, there are but a few surnames, thus many have absolutely identical names. Too, they lie when questioned, so police can't finger the right one, even given a name. They carry -- and flash -- enormous amounts of cash (no one would cash a check from one, hereabouts), so stealing isn't apparently necessary. A puzzle.

All my life I've known of them; all do. Identify one a block away for their, well, physical oddness. Women more often than not have mustaches, some minimal, others like a man. And a general physical 'differentness.' Too, they pierce infants' ears as soon as they're born, so all wear earrings. You'll laugh, but because all my life only Gypsies and 'ladies of the evening' had pierced ears, No one else did, yet women have have pierced ears for centuries, happily. Not us. When my daughter, in her 'teens, wanted hers ears pierced (by then the taboo with which I grew up remained only with my generation and those older), I hesitated, finally relenting after repeated pleas. Clip earrings hurt, so I could never keep them on, and given background I couldn't have my own ears pierced; we never (rarely?) escape what shapes us. Finally on my fortieth birthday I DIUD it, learning I'm allergic to every kind of material they use. Earringless I remain.

A more malevolent aspect of that culture: Fathers promise female children for marriage early, provocatively dressing 4, 5, 6 year olds as adult women, with makeup, high heels, jewelry, parading (literally) them around so men may choose. When a national TV crew secretly filmed a 'parade' in a northeastern state (unlike ours, their Gypsies chose a motel for their parade, so the crew were able to sneak in), we watched when it aired, transfixed, unsurprised.... Marriage takes place early; girls seldom go beyond parochial elementary school (they are serious Catholics; not for nothing is the community named Murphy Village, for years ago a Father Murphy set out to minister to them, and did.)

When marriage looms the child-bride's father builds a house -- ordinary suburban-but-bad-taste -- and (in what manner no one 'outside' knows) fills it with what looks like foil as you drive past. This 'foil' exorcises evil spirits.

How judge Gypsy practices perhaps thousands of years old, brought from Europe who-knows when, scattered about our country? Aside from "It makes me uneasy, and sad for those children," I've no answer. Many have attempted to write dissertations on this group, with little-to-no success. Rarely one will leave; one defector allowed an interview in a local newspaper. He had no criticisms; simply wanted a different life for himself, but was quick to say he couldn't recall anyone else's departure.

Taboo? In my mind, several.

roadyacht
 
 
 
we have a 40ft Silver Eagle
 
i guessed you either had an RV or an old Caddy....oh that's land yacht.
 
 
An no matter how humans in their current form got here( there are myths saying we are the product of masturbation by some god or the other.....another taboo subject) the point is we will not be here very long if we can't evolve to catch up in our mental and emotional and spiritual abilities with our physical and mental progress.And yes, I am a survivalist of sorts. I believe in self sufficiency when possible. 
 I struggle to evolve in those areas I mentioned above.
Even though most myths involving female warriors allude to the woman losing her warrior status and battle prowess with the loss of her virginity....if someone comes at me or my child or husband to kill us you better believe this warrior will don her rusty armor and pick up her bow and fill their areses full of holes.
Ahhhhhh.....another taboo....killing vs murder.
When will hubbie would get home so we can ride?

n.b. This, too, I think I think: Were we speaking of a missionary in a faraway island group attempting to change a thousand-year-old culture by 'saving souls' by introducing Christianity, I'd say Get him off that island!

For that matter, on such an island group there is extant a culture whose members believe a child is the responsibility of the entire village, and that for a man to refuse his willing wife to another man is rude. Never have they know2n war; they've no word for it. Children grow up happy and loved, believing they've a village of parents. How they escaped missionaries who knows?
Relativity matters. Success in one's method matters.

So, I suppose, does knowing what's happening among Gypsies in your back yard. If 'know' one can, with a closed community....

Miss Blue,
A few years ago there were four of us, two couples having dinner.  The conversation got on to our teenage daughter dating.  Of course we went into the promiscuous antics that would ensue.  I say to my wife, "but you don't understand studies find that young lads at 15 think about sex six times an hour and it ain't just with himself"  And quickly in anticipation of any questions I went on to say "its not until they are in there thirties that it tapers off."  Greg says "no it doesn't".   I am not sure I agree with him but you get my point.  So Miss Blue be satisfied that is all that is happening.  Don't be offended; it is what it is. 

On the other side of the coin, I once had a busty gal in a low cut blouse walk into my office leaned over my desk and said, "I noticed that you have been noticing I'm wearing skirts shorter."  The pragmatic  man could have said "not right now".  But I  (ignorant man?) said and "what makes you think that?"  I still don't know why that would ticked her off.  So cuukoo if you cold send along that that visual aid...I might make some progress. 

On religion and spirituality, especially in the Renaissance Period I couldn't agree more.  I am on a personal quest in my reading for the cause of war.  I am convinced there are way too many other dynamics than the politics of the religion/sect itself found in any religious group or another.  On spirituality I am grateful, albeit 20th century stats don't support it, that man is evolving and there is a higher degree of spiritual collective conciseness in this 21 century.

Georgia.....the island is the key. if they had no where to run, they would eventually kill all of each other. Their society evolved successfully, unlike so many others to meet the needs of their environment.
and since the women could have fathered their children with any man on that island the offspring belong to eveyone in a way.Any one of the men could be their fathers.
One problem is thet for too long women have been looken upon as property in many cultures.

Miss Blue,
 
Cherry kool-aid, a little slow but I get it.  That clears everything up.  I should keep it straight from now on.
 
thx

georgia.....didn't catch the gypsy post til now. loading snafu i think.
What societial prejudices pushed these folks to adapt to survive by this lifestyle? I'm sure isolation is by choice to some degree. but afrter centuries of forced social isolation.....sometimes it's hard to step out of the cage when the doors have been opened.
have you seen Latcho Drom?
 
 
 
seems these folks(Romany) are universally reviled....even in India. but folks don't hesitate to use them when convenient either. ever been to the fortune teller?
I read cards.

 Miss Blue,
 
Your comments keep hooking me in.  I agree we have become a consumer society where it is too easy to get and to non descript to give.  I would much rather put $50 into the guitar case of a musician or even a begger's hand as I look him in the eye than pay more taxes an not know who the hell my money is going to.  Talk about spiritual experiences, next opportunity you get look a begger in the eye and give an extrordinary amount. 

I am a firm believer and practioner of anonymous charity. I am teaching this to our daughter. Even though i am not christion, i stuff a sizable amt of cash into those salvation Army buckets. my 14 year old is now doing the same with money she saves all year . I get a little creeped out at the photo ops of large cardboard checks....well you get the picture.
My husband has brought home more than one out of work musician for extended stays. Good thing we have a small guest house! Oh. forgot, we have a small independent record label.

please excuse......Romani

I almost forgot.....
goodluck roadyacht to you and the Missus....I have a couple of dear friends fighting that same enemy .

Miss Blue ~ you read cards, I've always been Intrigued by people who can do so. 
 
Taboos ~The whole marrying your however any removed cousins did not seem to matter to European Royality. Yet for the "common folk" it remained so. I alwasy kind of wondered about that. Queen Victoria's family pretty much kileld themselves off by intermarring and causing the Hemophelia Gene to be passed down to the male heirs. although I understand that the science was not known back then to realize this. Still one has to wonder if the thought ever occured to them that it was happening becuase 1st cousins had married each other?  

Micheal ~ Your a Cornhusker?.. I would have never guessed. as for the Tabbo of smoking  the one here in WI goes into effect as a taboo in July of next year. I don't even smoke & was against it being passed.  Why is that when some people feel something in their lifestyle is taboo it should be for everyone else's also? And why is it that they then get to dictate the policies of private businesses.     

good questions rings90. 
 
sometimes i think the silent majority mistakes themselves by being so, as long as no one is knocking down their doors.  then their doors get knocked down and they wonder why no one spoke up about it.  or something like that....having email issues.....

from rings, upthread:  "why is that when some people feel something in their lifestyle is taboo it should be for every else's also?"  I wish I knew the answer to that one, I really do.  I'd put aside most all my other Big Questions to have that one answered satisfactorily.  I sometimes think this attitude among those who want everyone to do and think like they do has its roots in fear -- the fear that others (those who disagree) really might be on to something, might actually be right in their individualist thinking, and if left to their own devices, they might just come out ahead, and leave those without the guts to think for themselves, out in the cold.

Rings,
 
yeah!!!! any cry against a government telling me what to do gives me hope that mankind will outslast its rulers, even when the rulers are themselves.  As an American that is a mind twister where the word "taboo" might apply
 
 
I don't smoke
I don't like second hand smoke
But I'd rather tell the smoker next to me to refrain
Than rely on a government to do it for me
 
WE THE PEOPLE   ...  IN SILENT MAJORITY
 
Who did not let Mis Blues' Rev. Wright comment go un noticed.
 
OK, this is just a bit of my off hand wit.  Michael, I am wondering if almost quitting smoking is anything like almost having an orgasm?  Perhaps we should all lite up and have a few drinks before we entertain the answer to that question
 

Rings: I'm the odd Nebraskan.  I'm a native, but I don't watch football.  Scary, I know
 
Paul Murphy: Almost quitting means I've quit buying them and am working on quitting bumming them from other people.  Which usually was fine until my weekly pool league came around and everyone else was lighting up.  Maybe I'll be better able to quit if I can't actually see them smoke, and the only smell I get is the stale after-smoking smell instead of the somewhat pleasant "just lit" scent.

rings90
I was thinking about the europea royals on my boatride. The samething happened to the ancient Egyptians. Too many brother/sister marriages.
And, about no smoking laws, I have said amny times we don't need them, just more good manners. my maternal grandfather was a tobacco farmer and smoker. He would never light up at the table even in his own home and would always ask if anyone minded if he smoked.
taboos and dirty little not so secret secrets seem to go hand in hand.
 
 
 
gyp from gypsy
 
to jew someone .....well no need to explain here.
What might be ok to speak around the bridge table at the country club would certainly be taboo in public.
 
 
 
again....our thiughts are as evil as our deeds sometimes.
 
 
 
and right now in this country it's taboo to think that there is any sort if racism other than white on black.
 
 
 
 
 

oh Michael, the boobie thing.....
 
 
 
been on a couple of clothing optinal beaches. most folks are not attractive with their clothes off. Those perfect ninnies that men dream of only exist in most women at a young age and/ or after enhancement. gravity sucks!

good grief, we haven't even talked about taboos against marriage between the classes or castes. i'm sure most of us have heard expressions like marriage"out of their station"

cuukoo.....how many in Europe in the 1930's were silent when their neighbors' doors were knocked down and prople began to be carried off.
 
Another dirty little seceret...Roosevelt turned away folks seeking asylum from the tyrany in Europe.

in response to the article "we hate our babies"
 
 
i read that newborns more often than not look like their fathers and that is actually an adaptive thing to insure survival. the dad is more likely to accept the child as his if it looks like him. Of course features change over time. Our daughter looked just like her dad when she was born but now looks more like me.
 
 
 
 
 
"who's your daddy?"    don't get mem started...that will remain taboo for me today.

Funny that you mention that babies look like their fathers.....I read an article which asserted that women tend to insist that the baby looks like the father, whether the baby did or not. THAT'S the adaptive mechanism. My brother has three children, none of whom look a bit like him - even at birth they had their mother's nose. She insists, decades later, that her son is the spittin' image.

Now, to continue my contrariness......the smoking laws are unfortunately necessary precisely because no one has manners anymore. I argued at length with a former co-worker (back when we all smoked indoors) about how he had every right to smoke, but that his right ended at my nose. And since he could not control where the smoke went, he should not be entitled to smoke indoors. Same as murder, really, you have every right to swing that axe but you can't swing it where it can hurt me.

On the grounds where I work, we are actually forbidden from smoking outdoors, too. That's pushing it too far. I think many of these laws are similar to those warnings you see on a new hair dryer imploring you not to use it while in the bathtub. Some idiot did that, sued, and now the warnings must be posted. I see this in my work at the state government level - the reason regulations are so complex is that no one can predict every situation and every person must be treated the same. As the saying goes, nothing can be made idiot-proof because idiots are so ingenious.

ANd yes, the kids are his....for some weird reason, she adores him...

Paul Murphy - almost quitting smoking is not like almost having an orgasm.....done both and really, there's no similarity.

But let's all have that drink and discuss.....

Sex taboos are the most entertaining to air out in public, I think. Sex makes so many people uncomfortable, which is why when I'm talking about sex I usually like to bring up Jesus, too.

Yes, yes, I'm here all week! Try the veal.

But sex taboos really are entertaining. Sex between whites and blacks, right? The Sammy Davis controversy. The old time (lovely hate-filled term) "miscegenation". Just saying THAT word these days, when asserting the Rightness of Whiteness, is enough to get one permanently banned from Jolnirhafn (my home's name) as well as from any polite conversation. But if black and white sexual unions were so bad, how come our invading armies in southeast Asia generated so many happily legal unions of white and "yellow"? And there's even a special term for what happens to the white male who decides that Asian women are the greatest thing since that other greatest thing: "Yellow Fever".

On a personal note, I deeply regret having NOT shagged the perfectly miniature and unbelievably beautiful Asian women friends I had in college. You see, I was a complete idiot. For one, I really didn't know when I was being hit on. I once fell asleep during a full body massage that one of my friends (Japanese and absolutely lovely) asked to give me, which required me to first disrobe down to shorts, and then so did she "because it was really hot and massage is hard work". And I fell asleep. What a dufus.

Well, if I had a point it's completely gone. I'm lost in a reverie about the young Miss Nabeshima now. I'll come back when I remember my train of thought.

 
 
shandonista...
 
this might be the article
 
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/22/health/22real.html
 
sounds like the samples were very small though.

jonathan.... you were probably drunk and it was some guy named Sulu not miss nabeshima....just funnin !!!!
 
 
 
 
 
Shandonista....what are you mixing up in the club car....i'll have one too.
 
 
And there is something about that forbidden fruit that makes it soooo much more delicious.

 and jonathan one more question.... your roasted rump with the cherry sauce you spoke of........taste like chicken?

some taboo's are local, regional, southern or northern, then east and western, which leads me once again to:
 
the single biggest problem with
    communication
is the illusion that it has taken place
 
one assumes, which we all know what that makes...an ass outa u and me. 
 
yogi to the mat, before we take flight tomorrow, may bring some inner reflective in sight.
 
as to the smoking thing...it doesn't bother me one way or the other,as long as they are thoughtful, but put someone saturated with perfume(which is such a personal choice) next to me, or even worse they hug you, and your warfted, the scent is morphed into every fiber in your clothing, nostrils, tongue, i'd rather have a male cat or dog marking their territory up and down my legs.  that's a big tabu for me personally.
 
yes, miss blue, exactly what happened in history.  when people say "when in rome", i think to my self, now what a minute, how did that whole roman empire thing go.........
 
all packed and ready for tomorrow's departure.
 
this little yogi heading once again, with hubbie to yoga. 
 
life is good,  live it.

I think my 'taboo' comments today don't fit today's conversation. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted the essay.

Of mixed unions, JONATHANISLES, my son just wed a charming, intellectual, beautiful, accomplished Japanese woman he met when he was awarded a Fulbright Fellowship taking him to teach American Literature at a university in Kyoto. Though no longer a practicing Catholic, she was reared so, her family are, and her considerable volunteer work among women and children in outlying villages in Japan has been since her 'teens (she's in her '40s) via the same Catholic priests, one of whom wed them. So they were married in a Catholic ceremony. They went through the several counseling sessions requisite when a Catholic marries 'out of the Faith,' and my (probably atheist, truth be known) son, keenly aware of our many American 'mixes,' certainly, as a Southerner, of 'miscegenation,' with which he is angrily, liberally impatient, was (very) privately amused by the priest's properly solemn repetition of discussion of their 'mixed' marriage (my son is not Catholic). We were asked to provide, and did, evidence he was baptized. He later told his bride and us that he dared not speak it, not knowing the priest's sense of humor, but longed to say, "If God is omniscient and The Pontiff The Bridge to Heaven, in Vatican City there's a record of my baptism. Let's just call."

Shandonista:  ..."but let's all have a drink and discuss."

May I join you?

Right about now, I am in need of something cool, and clear, and clean, that isn't water.  It's been one of those days here in the merry land of cheese and cows.

Actually, I'll drink just about anything at this point, so long as it is not a Pink Lady (from yesterday's discussion).  I looked up the recipe to find out just what was in that drink my mother liked so many years ago, and it's gin, grenadine, 1 tablespoon cream, and 1 egg white.  Raw egg white.  Whip the cream and egg white together, mix in the whatever/part gin and whatever/part grenadine, and pour, and it ought to look something like this:

http://cocktailnerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/pink_lady.jpg

And don't you dare forget the maraschino cherry.  I'm sure that's what makes the drink, but I'll never know.  Because I'm taking a pass on this one.

It looks like the Kiddie Cocktail I used to order for my daughter, way back when the earth was cooling.

Cheers, fine people!

And here's to a taboo or two, just because we can.

wow....just doing a little reading on taboos and found some wild stuff.....like the highland soctts adversion to pork!( up until 1800 or so) avoidance speech....

If I'm whipping up the drinks, or better yet, paying the tab in the club car of the Sepiatrain, here's just a sample of what's available:  real martinis, Manhattans, and old fashioneds.  Add to that, a Stinger, a Sazerac, and a true rum punch.  Anything you like with tonic or soda, and Kir Royales to celebrate the occasion.
 
Standing room only, a few fine cigars or two (previous discussion be damned), and lots of toasts and raucous laughter.

shandonista....I'll have a rye old fashioned please.....for old times sake ,or the Sazerac.
 
any Cubans or are they still taboo?
 
if they aren't available i'll have a Macanudo or a Fuente

Now Isles ~ Everyone knows that Veal is TABOO cuz of how they treat the little calfs to harvest it along with the Foi Gras these days..
 
 
 

" Irish Travelers are an endogamous nomadic group ethnically and genetically distinct from Roma gypsies."
 
 
 
my error....still this group is the object of bigotry and hate here and in europe.

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/tag/romani/
 
 
 
 
wonder what the ladies at the club would say if son or daughter brought a traveller or romani home for dinner.....

Today's topic reminds me of my days studying architecture. In particular the temples of India.

First, we had to spell the names and locations of the temples correctly to get full credit. This was a daunting task, as the temples had names like Kandariya Mahadev at Khajuraho. There were dozens like that. 

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, what struck me about these temples, is that they showed men and women having sex with such pureness and beauty....they had no sense of self-conscientiousness. Imagine! And, me... well I had my car taken away by my dad for a week, when I spent the night at a gay guys house. Really, he was gay! Alas, my dad did not believe me.

I think Anita Thakur says it best;

If the temples of Khajuraho can be said to have a theme, it is woman. A celebration of woman and her myriad moods and facets- Writing letters, applying kohl to her eyes, brushing her hair, dancing with joyous abandon playing with her child. Woman - innocent, coquettish, smiling - infinitely seductive, infinitely beautiful. Depicted in a wealth of detail, sharply etched, sculpted with consummate artistry. The philosophy of the age dictated the enjoyment of the delights of arth (material wealth) and kama (sensual pleasures) while performing one's dharma (duty) as the accepted way of life for the grihastha (householder). Hence, the powerful combination of the visual and sensual pleasures combined with the duty attributed to the worship of the Dieties brings about a powerful transformation of the body and the soul. To include all of these aspects of life in one's early years makes it easier to renounce them without regret or attachment as one moves on to one's next stages of life toward moksha (liberation).

Shandonista, may I have a Kir Royale, please?

Penn , a lovely sentiment. We should also remember that "sex" is sacred to many cultures.
wish we treated it a little more that way here.
 
of course I believ that music and dance are also sacred...I'm such an anachronism
 
 
 
and a culture that can revere women so beautifully and recognizes the female side of the "diety"--Shakti, the sacred force-- can also treat women so horrifically.

shandonista......may I have a refill?

Shandonista: I'd like a Manhattan, and mix another to chase it.  And since the Sepiatrain still has a smoking car, I'll take a pack of unfiltered Lucky Strikes. 

 
 
Penn, shandonista and I'm sure a few others...
 
 
 
 
I'm sorry I stepped on your thoughtful posts....just a little too much caffeine today and not eonugh boatride.
i appologize. Sometimes I'm so anxious to say what i have to say, I forget that others wouls like to talk too.

Ahh, Miss Blue, you are sweet. I do not feel like you have stepped on my post :)

Shandonista, next round on me!

I'm sticking with the margaritas. Dance with who brung ya, I always say.

Stinking boat in Trinidad is going to give me heartburn. Current owner doesn't even have it insured. He won't lift a finger to put the boat into a harbor where I can get it surveyed. In short, a foreign flagged boat that I can't get surveyed or insured. And there isn't an American marina that will take an uninsured boat. That boat is sunk. He can sell it to a local! But not to an American.

Which is why I already have a plane ticket to San Francisco. And the boat there is bigger. So there.

And that brings to mind a fun taboo - renaming boats! There's a superstition against doing so, BUT I DON'T FOLLOW NO STEENKEENG SUPERSTITIONS. Google John Vigor about renaming boats. There's lots of drinking, Heathen offerings, and ritual shagging, and then you can rename the boat. At least, that's what I tell my sweetie. "No, darling, we really have to do it RIGHT HERE, and the boat will be blessed and the Gods will smile on us and we won't sink. And we have to do it weekly. Yup. Right here on the bow pulpit."

Paul:
 
The real cause of war is obvious if you read Martin Amis's too-satirical novel Yellow Dog.
 
The King of England is scrolling through his e-mail, and keeps coming upon scads of ads about some miraculous medicine that the ads strongly suggest he wants to be in on. The King is a dim bulb and asks his equerry to explain this to him.
 
The equerry explains, "Ah, Potentium, my lord." He elliptically snd euphemistically explains
that it's an erectile dysfunction drug and adds, wiith tremendous self-assurance, "There will be no more wars, your Majesty!"
 
Speaking of tabooish things, since Princess Diana's second son was not sired by Prince Charles, it's not quite right that he's in line for the throne after his older brother.

Miss Blue:
 
Too much caffeine?
 
Are you saying that the six giant cups of coffee and six diet Cokes I consume everyday are a problem?
 
Remember the old Far Side cartoon: "Hour after hour, cup after cup, the two cowboys tested their mettle in a traditional drinking contest of the old west." The two are swilling java, and engaged in a profoundly tremulous arm wrestle.

Also, I designate myself as official provider of Cuban cigars for Thesepia train.

Critical point: the Arab book about female sexuality came from Dubai, not Saudi Arabia. BIG difference.
 
I can see such a book coming out of Dubai, or even it s cosmopolitan neighbor, Abu Dhabi. (The flight from Dubai to Abu Dhabi is officially the shortest route in commerical aviation: 15 minutes in a Boeing 777).
 
UAE and Saudi Arabia are altogether very different places. Sort of like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing it.

There was a comment above about sexual engravings on Hindu temples in India. It's importnat to point out that many of those engravings also depict rather highly imaginative acts of bestiality. And THAT, my friends, is pretty much irremediably a taboo.

So, Isles, you really can't rechristen a boat, even if you smash a bottle of ichor over the bow? Seems like a useful fact to know. Somehow.

Swami, those books must have been burned (in grand "Fahrenheit 451" style) at the University of Hawaii School of Architecture.

swami...my error...but wasn't a British couple arrested there recently for fornacation?
   Jonathan....my hubbie and I were caught once on the deck of our boat. many years ago, by a spotter plane....the SOB buzzed us half a dozen times.

 Is anyone else here old enough to rememberthat the designation Banned in Boston was a sure way to sell a book?

 and Jonathan about Yellow Feaver....I'll bet more GI's had seen Black and or Native American women than oriental women at the time.   Immigration quotas for asians was traditionally low up until fairly recently, historically.

And traditionally, asian women have been taiught to be a little more demure and 9on the surface) submissive? Something a little new to the us troops?
I have a japanese aunt.

And.....who fathered prince henri o great swami ?

and isnt there a theory that syphillis originated from sheep?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIZIBm2QGaM&feature=related

"The flight from Dubai to Abu Dhabi is officially the shortest route in commerical aviation: 15 minutes in a Boeing 777."   Sounds like the perfect flight time for someone like me.. I guess I should move to Dubia if I want to ever fly anywhere. OR is it Taboo for an Amercian Womena to live there alone?..  And since I don't really like to fly ~ would it be taboo for me to tell Isle sBUY THE BOAT ~ you need to sail me & my crap to Dubia..    
 

Willie Trask....nice!

WT, GREAT one!!!

swami......could I entice one of those Cubans from ya?

Miss Blue...share?

wt !!!!!!!! i'll have a shot of tequila on the side, with a margaritta on the rock.....toast to wt!

 
 
 
 
ya bet ya....
 
now won't that look funny in the smoking car....passin a big tobacco spliff around!
 
 
everyone should get a bhang out of that!
 

Think of it as a peace [pipe]-cuban-cigar.  I can even make smoke rings.. OoOoo

Swami, au contraire, you can rename a boat anytime you like. There's just certain things you're supposed to do. In my neck of the woods it involves a lot of mead, ale, silver coins, and bellowing. And I should point out that I would never willingly christen anything. But that's just me being a puckish sort of pagan.

Miss Blue, I deeply apologize, but I simply have to ask. Did it really take SIX flyovers before you decided to go inside??? Because that is admirable focus on the task at hand. Wherever they were.

Rings, you've already been Shanghai'd by proxy. Eventually you're going to wake up and realize you're on the Valhalla.

buck neekid and it was on the deck of a pontoon boat that we had at the time. the cannopy was down.....no place to hide. my husband insists that all boats be christened in this fashion....and most guys are content just to pee on trees....

OMG....I can't believe i just told that story. i'm cut off!

Miss Blue, you have a keeper.

I feel the urge to buy Miss Blue a drink.  And I'll let you use my Zippo.

  Plan to keep him as long as we both shall live....so help me

"...‘cause it's witchcraft, wicked witchcraft...and although, I know, it's strictly taboo..."

Taboos have always been (and I suspect will always be) controversial; no matter the topic, in the U.S. and around the world.

The ideas about what is considered taboo have changed over the centuries and they continue to evolve and set limits in our modern society.

All cultures differ with respect to taboos on sexuality, morality, religion, politics, race, gender, food, disability, economics, ethnicity...with the amount of tolerance firmly depending upon current belief systems and social values.

During our own country's early colonial period, sexual taboos were publically discussed and deviations from expected behavior were punishable by such things as whippings, public humiliation, and death. Way back in 1641, the Massachusetts Bay Colony approved a code of conduct, The Body of Liberties, listing twelve punishable crimes or taboos, which included witchcraft, idolatry, and adultery. I am somewhat amused to imagine the punishment that would have been doled out to former President Clinton had the sexual misconducts, described in the Starr Report, been judged by a Puritan court.

There is an old expression that says if you truly want honesty, don't ask questions you don't really want the answer to...but all societies need to find a way of talking about taboo topics.

Currently, travel to Myanmar (Burma) is taboo...I think of Rudyard Kipling's description that Burma is "quite unlike any land you know about" and then wonder if Kipling's work "Kim" should then also be taboo because of those thoughts, its racism, and its glorification of British Imperialism?

To me, the U.S. is a taboo battleground; just one of the things that makes the choice of a Supreme Court Justice so critical! Our Constitution, with its emphasis on freedom, makes our Supreme Court an integral part of a decision making-process whereby it is decided whether or not to break or to enforce some of our taboos...abortion, racial discrimination, same sex marriage...and they are not all religiously based - as an example, we have a flag-burning taboo; a conflict between a taboo and a freedom, as some see it...

Our cultural taboos are part of our individual identity in the world, as are other country's taboos a part of their cultures. Perhaps we should consider respecting other cultures taboos and not be so quick to impose upon them our own Western attitudes and possible delusions of cultural superiority.

sorry,,,,i think. in spite of our warts, we do have a great culture and probably have fewer taboos than most other places. And women here truly need to think how their lives would be elsewhere.
most places in the pkanet would hunt some us down for what has been said here today( and what has been confessed.)
most of our taboos here are not punishable by law( except things like incest and a few others)

oh sorry michael...I'm cut off for the night.

Too long away and come back to taboos.  Mr. Trask, king of youtube, a fine job, Kindlee, well said, others I need a few to digest all this.  Just pissed I cant go in the Sepiatrain smoking car yet, no tobacco and we'll keep it that way.  Pass me a drink though, too much going on in my little world.

We have in our library a set of Books..."With the Worlds People" published in 1903. These belonged to my husband's grandfather, a surgeon.
These books teach what I would consider close to what Hitler's eunenics said. has apes, austrailian aboriginals, Negroes,Native Americans and then white people listed up a ladder of evolutionary advancement. terrible stuff .i could go on. 12 volumes or so . a friend said the books should be destroyed. I say No. They should be read and taken as a good lesson on many levels. we shouldn,t forget some of the awful things people thought and why they thought them . History repeats itself because we can't seem to learn our lessons.

Miss Blue: Some of those old books are appallingly horrible.  The information they present is no longer useful, but we can use the books themselves as a sociological and psychological window into the world that was.

   Michael, exactly.

 and swami.... I still want to know about  prince Henry... you tease you!

Miss Blue:
 
To bum some Cubans off me? Why of course. Mi casa su casa. Mi puro su puro.
 
I think the idea of syphilis originating from sheep is an urban legend morphing of the idea that cowpox scabs, as William Jenner proved, could be used to inoculate people against smallpox. Syphilis ("a night with Venus, a lifetime with Mercury") is why the Hatter was so mad, and why Nietzche went insane and why Flaubert's career was brief. Probably Hitler and Eva Braun had it. Brahms, who frequented Hamburg brothels, probably had it, but died of decompensated cirrhosis likely from hepatitis B acquired as well from prostitutes.
 
Diana's second son was sired by a red-haired RAF captain (I'd have to look up his name). A former butler has admitted that the captain and the princess always did the horizontal bop when Charles was away.
 
Medical joke about syphilis: How are the pupils of syphilitic people like prostitutes? Because they accommodate, but they don't react.

Who said we can't smoke on the Sepia Train? There are a lot of wonderful women on board, and as Brahms said, where there are angels there must be clouds!

Swami: I've had Cubans before.  I really wasn't all that impressed.  I prefer a nice Hoya de Monterey.

To my knowledge, Burma is not taboo as regards travel. I've been there in recent years. I think JP recently visited there. I think the oly place with an outright American-generated ban for travel is Cuba. North Korea is not taboo. Iran isn't.

Even leprosy is no longer taboo. There's no reason for lepers to be sequestered. I have been to a couple of leper colonies in southeast Asia, and have shaken hands with lepers. It's not a person to person contagion.

I heard someone say what the hell
What have I got to lose?
When I shrug off this mortal shell
I hope I've broken a few taboos.
 
There's lust-oh yeah, I did that,
There's the Electra complex too.
What about sex with someone wayyy too fat...
Hmm...is that a taboo?
 
Samoans I'm sure don't think so
Though I've known precious few.
Witch hunts would now be loco,
But once were not taboo.
 
And those polygamists down in Texas,
The stuff they like to do!
Three underage wives in your Lexus?
I'm calling that taboo.
 
I was working down in Trauma
When they brought the child in, blue.
Revived, and scared of dad and mama?
Something's happening that's taboo.
 
Two friends of mine got married!
Two women, so yes, it's true
That people, wild and varied,
Are invalidating some taboos.
 
I could go on, and on, and on
With my doggerel verses in their queue.
But I think I've said enough upon
The subject of taboo.
 
 
 
 
 

The ourobouros image must be a kind of ultimate taboo----autocannibalism.

::::::applause:::::: Olivia, love it!

Michael: It really depends on what kind of Cuban you're smoking. Many of them are awful from poor manufacturing technique. And to be sure, some very excellent cigars are made in Nicaragua, Honduras, and D.R.
 
This just prompted me to get up and rummage through the closet where I have all the cigar boxes stashed. I think genuine Cuban Partagas (alas probably not rolled on the thighs of Cuban virgins) really can't be beat.

I agree the Hoya de Montereys are good, but Partagas are exquisite, bliss and heaven, gorgeousness and gorgeosity.

I don't know what the daily record is for number of postings on this site, but surely this must be a record or close to it. 125 postings above this one.

Seems like this post is running neck-and-neck with the Twinkie Post.  Isles, get out the Twinkie Porn Taboo photos.

To Paul Murphy: I checked out your web site, and I like it. It's clear that you let book content really perfuse and circulate in your head before you write about it. You do a good job and without putting  on airs.
 
I'd like to converse with you sometime about it, as I have been developing (in my head) a film review website. I curious as to the nuts and bolts of how you set up yours, as I like the format.

Taboo also has a holy, ethereal kind of meaning. When a woman you've been hanging out with invites you over to swim in her pool, and then you go get in the shower in the guest bathroom to wash off the chlorine, and the bathroom is all steamy, and your eyes are closed, and then you hear the shower door opening, and you open your eyes, and see that the woman is in the shower with you, dressed as the ace of spades (if you follow my meaning)...it's holy and heavenly!
 
Miss Blue, we are now co-banished.

was she wearing the ace of spades pointing up or down?...makes a difference.

To all in this topic: fascinating stuff!  But as long as there's going to be drinking, why hasn't anyone touted Woodford Reserve bourbon, or am I the only native here besides Petermanji?

PAm, oh thank you for quoting a song no one sang better than my man Sinatra....