Fourth Estate

Keeping Churchill on the straight and narrow

Keeping Churchill on the straight and narrow The Independent Take a look at an interesting article we found.

That old bulldog spirit

That old bulldog spirit Globe and Mail Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Churchill made last-minute changes to 'finest hour' speech

Churchill made last-minute changes to 'finest hour' speech BBC News Take a look at an interesting article we found.

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The "Finest Hours" address he made to the House of Commons June 18, 1940 is one of the most celebrated speeches in history.

But a new examination of his newly released drafts, at Cambridge University’s Churchill Archives Centre, shows how much blood, sweat and tears he put into it.

These revealing papers, made public for the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain, showed how he agonized over every famous phrase, leaving his private secretary unimpressed, and his wife beside herself.

His writings went through many changes – the first dictated to his secretaries and then revised in longhand, using red and blue ink for last minute revisions. 

Just before the phrase, "The Battle of France is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin," he added in his own red pen, at the last moment, "all shall be restored."

On the threat of the Luftwaffe, instead of the risk of ‘grievous damage,’ he highlighted the power of the RAF.

He made sure each change set a more positive tone.

While the speech helped rejuvenate the nation, the papers show his passion never reached his aforementioned private secretary Sir Jock Colville.

Colville wrote in his private diary at the time:

"It was too long and he sounded tired. He spoke less well than on the last occasion and he referred more to his notes...he smoked a cigar all the time he was broadcasting."

Judging by the severity of the situation —France had capitulated and Britain was facing the prospect of attack and invasion— it was amazing Churchill laid off his beloved brandy.

Max Arthur, author of the just published “Last of the Few,” said:

“This is a colossal speech, the way he evolved it...realizing more than any other Prime Minister before him just what impact this would have on the Nation.”

Then there was the matter of his wife.

"My darling..."

Written two weeks after the speech, Clementine Churchill continues:

"...One of the men in your entourage, a devoted friend, has been to me and told me there is a danger of your being generally disliked by your colleagues and subordinates because of your rough, sarcastic and overbearing manner...”

She ends her letter by saying: "You will not get the best results by irascibility and rudeness, they will breed either dislike or a slave mentality."

She might have been the unsung hero in all of this, keeping "The Lion" focused on savaging the enemy instead of his own men.

Allen Packwood, archives director, on this newly released information:

"What you can see here is his self-belief, his determination, his humanity, that leads us on from the dark days of 1940 to final victory in 1945."

Among the hundreds of last minute changes, Sir Winston never tampered with the ending:

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'

J. Peterman

 

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78 Members’ Opinions
June 22, 2010 1:38 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

NATIONALISM ... Thats what it was ....... a Feeling that we have long since had bred or beaten out of us, and replaced by ME-ism .......

June 22, 2010 2:43 AM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

It's a shame that the world has become so open minded that our collective brains have fallen out. We in the west have become a decadent apologetic class of lazy, mindless, selfish drones. Ivan you have it right...me-ism has become our undoing. We no longer have noble leaders anymore because we have learned in our training camps {public school} to marginalize real leaders and like zombies, walk around with our hands outstretched wanting more from our masters. Give me football...give me Reality TV...give me beer...don't bother me with responsibility and fortitude. Today at work was a microcosm of all that is wrong. Dispassionate apathy...yes it's redundant but bests describes the day I had dealing with the zombies today. I wish I had taken the 'blue' pill... www.kentuckycurmudgeon.wordpress.com

June 22, 2010 2:51 AM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

Now for something completely different...being a schizophrenic has it's rewards. Hope everyone in the village has a wonderful day. It is summer after all and we should be thankful for every day God hath made. Be it challenging and/or rewarding...it's what our lot is and we should count it all joy! 

June 22, 2010 6:53 AM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Some  people  are  fluent  with  eloquent  words  without  even  breaking  a  sweat.    Abraham  Lincoln  wrote  the  "Gettysburg  Address,"   87  words  that  changed  the  history  of  a  nation  and  the  course  of  the  Civil  War,   on  some  scrap  paper  on  the  train  to  Gettysburg,   off  the  cuff  &  almost  as  an  afterthought.Churchill,  however,  was  a  complicated  man.   Underneath  the  bravado  that  defined  his  public  facade  was  a  man  whose  knees  often  knocked  before  he  addressed  Parliament  or  spoke  on  the  radio.   NPR  had  a  session  on  22  May  2010  of  this  year  with  a  man  who  wrote  a  book  which  created  a  short  list  of  heroes.   They  weren't  always  the  most  likely  candidates  for  the  job,   instead  they  were  often  ordinary  people  cast  by  fate  into  extraordinary  situations.   When  things  start  happening  around  you,   and  your  stomach  instinctively  reminds  you  that  you  are  "hard  wired"  for  the  fight-flight  response,  you  are  forced  to  decide  what  to  do.   Most  take  the  safer  road,  and  duck  for  cover.  A  few  defiantly  and  against  their  own  self-interest  stand  up.   Churchill  stood  up.   After   the  war,  his  own  electorate  voted  him  out  of  office.  We  have  short  memories.   Courage  is  what  we  do  when  nobody's  looking.....I'm  notorious  for  my  studies  &  admiration  for  the  stand  that  Britain  took  in  1940,  when  the  rest  of  Europe  had  fallen  to   Hitler,  and  when  invasion  was  imminent.  The  Royal  Air  Force  is  memorialized  on  my  photo  &  comments  page,  so  I  won't  give  my  entire  "stump  speech"  again.   But  I  will  remind  us  all  that  Churchill  said  that  RAF  men  &  women  almost  single-handedly  stopped  Hitler's  Luftwaffe,   the  best  and  biggest  military  air  power  in  the  world.   They  were  to   demorialize  Britain,  either  softening  them  up  for  the  expected  invasion,  or  causing  them  to  quit.   Somebody  forgot  to  tell  the  plucky  Brits,  not  to  mention  the  American  {and  Canadian}   Expedionary  Force,  volunteer  pilots  who  got  were  given  leaves  of  absence  for  North  American  militaries  to  fly  with  the  plucky  English.   Vera  Linn  sung  their  praises  by  keeping  spirits  high,  some   are  on  YouTube  as  music  videos  blending  realistic  flight  simulations  of  air   combat  with  the  music.   I  use  them  as  inspirational  personal  "pep  talks"  when  I'm  having  a  personal  crisis  of  self-confidence.   Courage  is  contagious..... 

more on the honor roll
June 22, 2010 9:44 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Jalopkin -- perhaps it's due to the fact that now the speech is the thing followed by..................well, nothing.

June 22, 2010 9:44 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

KC -- at least that way you're never lonely :)

June 22, 2010 10:04 AM
First-com Troll said...

Peterman has it wrong. 
The speech in question was made in May or June 1940 not January
1940.  In January Winston was First Lord
of the Admiralty not PM and the ground war in the West had not started yet.

Jalopkin   I stand
strongly as a patriot.  How can an
American be a pessimist? 200 years ago we lit the world with our candle of government
by the governed under the rule of law. Since then the fire has spread to all
the corners of the earth.

Since we started our people under our Government have
established universal public education, extended the franchise to woman, and
all men 18 or older regardless of property, eradicated slavery, established decent
labor laws ended child labor, provided  some help for the aged and destitute, provided
free roads and parks of astounding breath. Secured our financial system, liberated
dozens of nations. Contained the spread of Soviet regimes and watch them collapse
under there own folly, and in my life time I believe I will see my nation establish
universal heath care and be the most important player in bringing about a new
basis of energy for civilization.

 

In the 1940s progressive civilization was saved from the
jack boot of fascism by Winston’s refusal to give in.  The mid 21st century will see all
civilization saved by our will to change the recourses wich run our
civilization.

June 22, 2010 10:24 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference           W,Churchill

June 22, 2010 10:40 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

If I contribute nothing else today, there is this for the record.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4BVzYGeF0M&feature=related ;

June 22, 2010 11:04 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Ivan, I think there's hope for us.  After 9/11, we were at a neighborhood bar/restaurant.  A blue collar place that often represents the real America.  It was a Tuesday and there had been going around, a message to please, at 7:00 go outside and light a candle....light up the world in memory and to express your faith and hope and love for your country.  The manager came around close to 7:00 and mentioned that, though we didn't have to, some of the patrons were going outside on the parking lot and holding a lit candle.  If we wished to, he provided each of us with one.  We did.  At 7:00 we were outside with that lit candle and there had to be maybe fifty of us there, maybe more since the restaurant emptied.  Spontaneously, I don't know how it began, but we started singing "God Bless America"....with tears rolling down our cheeks.  Big guys, guys usually more comfortable with a beer in their hand, standing there crying and holding a candle.  It was the most profound moment in time I've ever encountered and left me with hope for all of us.

June 22, 2010 11:06 AM
Com-100First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 jmr said...

Give us a common enemy and patriotism is back. I don't think its been bred out of us. Anyway, the speech was given June 18th. I see Mr. P has got it right. Could it be a last minute correction?  He's also right about Mrs. C, the unsung hero in all of this.

June 22, 2010 11:13 AM
25891 Com-100First-comHr-1Hr-5 rapidgirl said...

I don't really have anything to contribute to this discussion, at least not yet. I'm hoping some of our friends across the Atlantic will be around to weigh in on this topic.

June 22, 2010 11:43 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

It is interesting to me that Churchill and DeGaulle gave
their speeches on the same day, and were comfortable not so much drawing the
United States into the war but assuring their people that the United States could
be relied upon as an ally (from the Latin, to bind to).  He said, “She
(France) can, like England, use without
limit the immense industry of the United States
.”  Both knew that they could rely on this
without a treaty and with an understanding of our (on that day) official
position of neutrality.

Both also understood that it would take more than talk, it would take a  superior mechanical force (DeGaulle) to defeat the lights of perverted science (Churchill).

jmr, I don't understand why we need a common enemy to be patriotic; I don't believe it is true.

troll, I don't understand your last sentence.  What recourse runs our civilization?  To me the only recourse that Britain and France had was to rely on the will of their people and the resources of our country (the mightiest resource being the will of our people).

June 22, 2010 12:05 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Paoloa -- perhaps it's when we feel the most vulnerable that we find the good in people.
 
I a book I recently read though, there was a suggestion (don't we just love conspiracy theories?) that 9/11 was brought about by the CIA so that we would focus on things other than how our government was beeing run.

June 22, 2010 12:15 PM
First-com Troll said...

Paolos-  once agin my spelling gets in the  way it should read  resourceand yes Peterman made the corection

June 22, 2010 12:57 PM
First-com Writer Girl said...

I live near Branson, MO, where there are more Veterans Day activities than anywhere in the country. All year long shows include patriotic numbers, Veterans (and those currently serving) are asked to stand, "So we can say thank you!" Probably more flags here per capita than anywhere!

I forget it's not that way all across our nation. Not that anyone is actually less proud or grateful; they just really make a point of expressing it here, on a daily basis.

June 22, 2010 12:58 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

O/T:  Jane, I read last night's comments, yours about the tanning addiction -- I'm still laughing.   Tanning addiction!! There should be an app for that ;) !
    

June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
First-com Writer Girl said...

A note on yesterday's summer stories ... dinner at a friend's last evening. Her house is in "summer mode" and written on a cute little plaque: Summer is not just a season. Summer is a state of mind.

But guess that's true of many things ... maybe patriotism....

June 22, 2010 1:23 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

I made a road trip through Tennessee into Kentucky and back last week.  I sent out a holler to Tommy Typical, our host and KYC as I passed through Nashville, Lexington and Georgetown.  I hope they heard it over the roar of the trucks.  Somewhere south of Lexington as I was cruising north on I 75, I glanced off through the trees to the west and on a high isolated hilltop, that appeared to be in the middle of nowhere, was a flagpole with Old Glory hoisted high and waving in the wind.  It was good to see.  My first thought was of a flag raising by four Marines (one a Kentucky boy) on a lonely hill somewhere in the South Pacific many years ago.

June 22, 2010 1:38 PM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

paolos ~ I thought someone called my name. Good to know it wasn't just the voices in my head. Thanks for the shout out.

June 22, 2010 1:48 PM
1627 First-comHr-1 CptMatt said...

I voted above for the best speech in the real world. Down here, In the world of fiction, I'd vote for Kirk's "Risk is our Business" speech from the Star Trek original series episode, "Return to Tomorrow".
 
"They used to say if man could fly, he'd have wings. But he did fly. He discovered he had to. Do you wish that the first Apollo mission hadn't reached the moon, or that we hadn't gone on to Mars and then to the nearest star? That's like saying you wish that you still operated with scalpels and sewed your patients up with catgut like your great-great-great-great-grandfather used to. I'm in command. I could order this. But I'm not because, Doctor McCoy is right in pointing out the enormous danger potential in any contact with life and intelligence as fantastically advanced as this. But I must point out that the possibilities, the potential for knowledge and advancement is equally great. Risk. Risk is our business. That's what the starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her."
 
Its one of the few times that Shatner's over-acted, staccato delivery worked.

June 22, 2010 2:03 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

It amazes me how folks think greatness is bestowed on a fortunate few. Of all the heroes I have met in person or in that Imaginary Boardroom in my noggin, it is with great sacrifice and unbridled passion that men and women step out outside of themselves to become greater than the image they look at in the mirror everyday. Of course, it is only natural that the speech of a decade requires consternation and soul searching. The most amazed at the power of his words was no doubt Mr. Churchill himself.  If you followed the smoke in the distance at the KY-TN stateline my dear paolos, you might have stumbled onto a still with a nectar that provides the pathway to enlightenment by the light of the silvery moon. Boy Howdy! 

June 22, 2010 2:33 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

KY:  You have got it to a Tee !!!  I applaud your grasp on Reality ...
 
ANDY: (None of this invective is aimed at you, Andy)  I recall all you recount here, I agree with you, and admire you greatly for taking notice ...  But, isn't it a shame that it takes something so drastic to get us to ACT, like the way we WERE, in the 30's and 40's ???  And you see, we have all but forgotten all that now, and are back to mindless, Liberal Business as usual ... after all, look what we have done with the government ... We have put an Illegal Alien,  Arab/Moslem in the White House, and allowed Violation of the Constitution some more by allowing the Raghead Bastard to install Hillary Clinton in a position she is Constitutionally forbidden to hold ... and on and on it goes,  while we stand mind-numbedly by and watch the Arabs and the Chinese arguing ove who gets to pick up the pieces of america after it craters completely beyond any possibility of recovery, turning away from Almighty God as quickly as we can, so as to be Politically Correct, and not offend some Raghead, or some other good for nothing minority from somewhere ... While staring at a Debt, that my Grandchildren will still be paying on when they reach a hundred years of age ...
 
It is time for Godless, unthinking stupidity to come to an end ... It is time for Drastic Measures, it is time for America to come to grips with the Truth, or die a horroble death, realizing at the moment it draws it's last breath that all of us Kooks were Right ...
 
Islam is evil, and is being used by another Power to eliminate all the resistence to turnng this place into one world, one government, one Religion, and of course, killing everything and every one that does not accept The New World Order ... We need to get all Arabs and all Moslems out of this country, don't care if they were born here ... and get all illegal Mexicans out of this country and start shooting all Druggies, whether they Use, Sell, Mule, or Grow ... and we have GOT ... to get away from this Liberal, Permissive mind-set, and get back to Godly Morals and Values ... If one has a bad appendix, one cuts it out ... that is exactly what I am talking about doing ... drastic as it sounds ... Go look your Children and Grandchildren in the face ... and then tell me that you are prepared to take the Risk, that I might just be crazy .....
 
Troll:  I cannot use the word, in this Forum, to define and explain all that you have exemplified in your Comments ... You call yourself a, "Strong Patriot" ... of WHAT ???
 
I really hate to allow myself to get personal in this place, and it really isn't like me at all, but the insipidness of your very existence has pushed beyond my limits ... To avoid wasting any more time considering whether or not you may even exist, I have decided that you are an impotent pipsqueak, a mosquito fart in the Cosmos, and will not recognize your possible existence ever again ... Regardless of what you may attempt to goad me with ... and even at that, I wish you well ....... just someplace else .......
 

June 22, 2010 2:55 PM
1198 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Doc Nolan said...

Before we all get carried away with hero worship, a few reality checks on Winston.... He once praised Mussolini as"Roman genius... the greatest lawgiver among men."and praised Italian fascism because it "rendered a service to the whole world," showing "a way to combat subversive forces"(i.e. Bolshevism).  During the General Strike of1926 he was quoted as recommending turning machine guns on the strikers (In fairness, Winston had an extensive combat background, having served in India fighting Pushtuns, in South Africa during the Boer War, and in the Sudan.  He was a POW during part of his time in South Africa.)  And he is reported to have favored letting Gandhi starve to death during one of Gandhi's hunger strikes.  I'm not trying to discredit the old gent, just to remind everyone (including myself!) that most 'famous heroes' a saints with feet of clay (sometimes worse).  Those who would like to read history instead of hagiography will find the real Winston Churchill to be a compelling and fascinating character (in all senses of that word!)

June 22, 2010 3:16 PM
First-com Writer Girl said...

Wow, Jalopy, can't count how many ways you are wrong, from political to religious to common sense to common decency.
You might want to read the notice at the bottom of the "What do you think?" box!
Mr. Peterman?

June 22, 2010 3:20 PM
1198 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Doc Nolan said...

I suspect a large part of the decline of nationalism (at least in the United States) is very simple.  Most of us (referred to collectively as 'the general public') are coming to realize that we live in a nation "of the special interests, by the special interests, and for the special interests" -- and who wants to lay down his life for the welfare of the top executives of IBM or BP or Exxon or Microsoft or General Motors or Goldman Sachs?  I might add who wants to lay down his life so that Nancy Pelosi's daughter can make movies or so that Dick Cheney's daughters can enjoy civilian pursuits or so that Sarah Palin can become a media star or so that Joe Lieberman can support war in Iraq while no one in his family serves.  (Yes, both Republicans and Democrats all feed at the same trough....).  I'm reminded of the scene in 'The Wizard of Oz' where someone pulls the curtain open (Toto?) and there stands an elderly bald-headed man pulling on levers and pushing buttons: the Wizard of Oz manufacturing his 'stunning presence' out in front of the hayseeds and hicks (Dorothy, The Tin Woodman, The Scarecrow, and The Cowardly Lion).  It has taken decades of betrayal and cynicism by 'Our Leaders' to make most Americans detest their 'leaders', but bit-by-bit the American elite has pulled it off.  American nationalism, R.I.P.

June 22, 2010 3:24 PM
1198 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Doc Nolan said...

It's 'a hoot' when some folks start talking about someone or another engaging in 'class war'.  Usually it's somebody making millions a year complaining because they want to make even more, and that some poor slob making $40,000 a year is upset and is 'uppity' enough to complain!  Yeah... 'class war'....  Ha!

June 22, 2010 3:32 PM
1198 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Doc Nolan said...

On a calmer note.... I lived in England (pre-Thatcher I might note) and it came as a shock to me (as a 30-year-old) to have women in their 50s approach me to tell about their 'boyfriends'  from America during 'The War'.  It took awhile (and I'm well over 50 myself now!) to understand.... 'The War' was an incredibly disruptive, chaotic, and -- like most wars when folks aren't bombing or shooting at you -- 'fun' experience.  Before descending to the bowels of the British class structure once again after 'The War' these ladies were chased, loved, made love to, catered to, and 'pleasured' by men without any consciousness (or concern for) their social status.  It was all about 'Now!'  (For tomorrow we may all be dead...).  I wish I'd had the brains and the guts to whisper into the ears of one (or many) of those old dears, "I bet you were something then!"  I just know they would have remembered that with a bit of wistfulness for decades -- just as they remembered their mayfly-short youth in the 1940s....

June 22, 2010 3:40 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

Writer Girl: Sez You ... And where were you in 1955 when I was on Active Duty ten thousand miles away from home, and my first child was born ???  Who was paying your bills then ??? How much of the world have you seen from a Gun-Emplacement or a Trench ???  If you want to teach me anything, Writer Girl, you have to know more than I do ....... I seriously doubt you qualify .......

June 22, 2010 3:49 PM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

Writer Girl ~ in deference to your being new here's a nugget for you. You say in your profile 'read and write for life' I believe. A good read is 'Confessions of an Economic hit man'. A good site for links www.noagendashow.com

If your interest in life is more than just a passing one you may want to take the time to properly inform yourself. Your comments tell me you are willing to believe what you have read so far in life. Maybe it's time to branch out and grow and think for yourself.

June 22, 2010 4:13 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

*Achoo* GOD BLESS YOU!!!! ;)

June 22, 2010 4:28 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Bless you, Jax.    Ah-hem, Cptmatt, Henry V - Act 4, Scene 3.Risk is our business sounds like an insurance slogan. I'm just sayin'
  

June 22, 2010 4:31 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

Ivan , I respect your right to have the opinions and feelings that you have whether or not I agree or disagree. I do some of both. What does where some one was in 1955 have to do with their right to voice an opinion? If someone has a contrary opinion to mine ,they have that right and if I choose to debate with them I will try to do so with being nasty or abasive. If you choose to do do it differently that is also your choice.
In august 1955 I came back to Ft.Lewis WA. when the 2nd infantry Division (Indian Head) was brought back . Mainly the cadre and several officers and the colors.
For what do I qualify?

June 22, 2010 4:37 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Thank you Paolos! (I wasn't sure it you'd gotten that memo....)
I'm still recovering from (and restraining myself) the idea that patriotism can be a fleeting emotion....

June 22, 2010 4:46 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

Follow up on my earlier note . We came back from  Korea. Just to clarify.
Interesting series on PBS .Korea The Forgotten War.

June 22, 2010 4:51 PM
1521 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 Shandonista said...

Jalopkin - I'm not trying to start anything here, but I am curious as to why Hillary is not supposed to be Secretary of State.  I haven't heard about this.

June 22, 2010 5:03 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

 Jax .... >l< ... I think is the symbol for biting one's tongue.  Its use is not permitted in these parts from what I understand.  

June 22, 2010 5:17 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

J. Peterman often writes of heading off to the farm, there to work, to rest, to regroup. Churchill's Chartwell in Kent was his place of respite and restoration.

There he painted, wrote, walked in Lady Churchill's rose garden, reflected and geared up for his next challenge, his next big step.

We spent some cherished hours at Chartwell, and, in the mind's eye, came to know and appreciate some of what Churchill surely knew there.

We don't have a Chartwell, but we do have a chartwell, here in our own large back yard with its roses, lilies, the other abundant, seasonal flowers and the birds of various colors, birds that sing and delight and entertain. It is our personal chartwell, the one with the little creek running through it, the one with the giant pecan trees where the squirrels frolic on the limbs, the one that is a giving place of reflection and quietude, the one my wife and I created from a virtual bare state.

It is our oasis here in the midst of the surrounding, crushing rush and congestion and impatience, our private, time-out place, our very own ever-giving, ever-renewing, ever-inspiring chartwell.

Our toil and imagination and earned treasure created it over the years. And now it gives back to us almost as if in deep appreciation and in full measure. And then some.

June 22, 2010 6:03 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

lotlot, one of my favorite books is Churchill's Painting As A Pastime.  If you haven't read it and can find a copy, you might find some quiet arbor in your chartwell to sit one summer morning and give it a read.

June 22, 2010 6:06 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Good Grief!!! I pressed the button & MAGIC!!!! I'm back - Hope it stays,  mystery to me...
Winnie Churchill had a "black dog", as KC referred to earlier. He also had a great sense of humour.
He was seated next to an unattractive  lady at a dinner table & made a remark to which she exclaimed "If you were my husband, I'd shoot you!" to which he responded, "Madam, If you were my wife, I'd shoot myself!"
Visiting a friends garden & admiring the ferns, the friend bemoaned his lack of success with anenomes, to which Churchill replied "With fronds like those, who'd need anenomes?"
Emerging from the gents rest room in the House of Commons, a young newly elected member advised the revered Churchill, "Sir, the sentry box door is open" (You didn't button up your flies) to which the old man replied "And is he standing to attention, or lolling on a couple of sandbags?"
When having a flying lesson, the engine cut out & the instructor tried to gloss it over by the phrase "falling between to stools" to which Churchill replied "More like stalling between two fools."
 

June 22, 2010 6:12 PM
800 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Michael said...

I wasn't sure I wanted to get into this, but there is something Jalopkin mentioned that I have to address. Kicking out all Arabs and Muslims is, quite frankly, an wrong idea. There is a common misconception that every Islamic person is a rabid, hate-filled terrorist or supporter of terrorism. That is on the same intellectual level as thinking every Christian is a hate-filled bigot because of the Westborough Baptist Church. The word "Radical" indicates a minority and extremist point of views, far away from the mainstream.

Also, Kentucky Curmudgeon, in your statement to Writergirl, I suggest you take your own advice. You seem to be assuming that she is not thinking for herself. I don't know why you are making that assumption other than she chose to stand up to Jalopkin. That is intellectually dishonest.

Rabid Nationalism is not a healthy state of mind. Countries do make mistakes. And saying "My country, right or wrong" is a good way to stick your head in the sand.

And I will never buy into that crap that "I was in the military, therefor my opinion is more important than everyone else." That is not how it works, nor should it work that way. If you want to see why it is a bad idea, look at the original book "Starship Troopers" that required military service before someone could vote, have children, or be anything but a second class citizen. That system must never occur.

June 22, 2010 6:14 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Writer Girl: I like to think we're old enough in years and intelligent enough that we don't need to call "MODERATOR!" or "MR PETERMAN" when we think someone has crossed some line...."telling on" someone is childish.  You're here, you're welcome, but it would be a better thing if you didn't go running to daddy if you read something offensive to you.   That's for other forums who need constant babysitting, and it annoys the heck out of me when I read someone "finger wagging" at another poster here in the Eye....I like to think if indeed there is an issue it will be resolved between us, as they have been in the past.    As for the faint writing below this box, we've all read it, we're aware of it, and to remind a long-time poster of its existence is more of that annoying finger wagging, and it's unnecessary.     And anyway it's too damn hot out to argue, so I'm going to the club car where my iced tea is on ice, and the atmosphere is cool with comfortable humidity.  Anybody wanting the same, please join me.
  
    

June 22, 2010 6:18 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

paolos, thank you for the book suggestion. I shall locate it. Actually, we do have an arbor with seats on either side. We sat there last weekend and talked for a while, as we often do. When I locate the book, I shall sit there and read it. We have a couple of other shady places in our chartwell were we sit and read. My wife also created her own private place, which she calls her chapel. And it is.

June 22, 2010 6:35 PM
Pecos_tommy 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

In the late 60's, I read Desmond Morris' The Naked Ape and I noted that he said "that of the
193 species of monkeys and apes, all but one is covered with hair" so I grew as much as I could and I wish I had some of it back but not on my back.
What's up with that?

Morris identified Homo sapiens, the self-named ape, as the
exception and I, as one of the exceptions to the ape rule have the human's biological
nature that together with the masses has shaped our social structure and not the reverse. He warned people that humans may destroy themselves if they do not
control aggression among other things. It is a hard call. Where? Who" How? When to use aggression and Which enemies to combat? Makes me scratch my head and desire a banana split. 

CptMatt- I hope that I can reinvent myself as many times as Shatner. The man is amazing. Would he not make a superb Guest Speaker? 

lotlot- my tiger lilies are blloming and I shall indulge in their splendor this very evening. 

This discussion group is certainly a spunky bunch of lads and lasses. Cheers!

June 22, 2010 6:49 PM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

Intellectual honesty be damned. I find it tedious and boring when people just say 'wrong' like that means something. Without any clarification as to why. At least I had the courtesy to suggest some reading for edification.

Yes, I find myself in agreement with Ivan...so? I find I disagree with Michael on this score...so? I have no patience for spouting the talking points only. Honest discourse is give and take. I thought that's what I was doing. Wars get started over less I suppose.

June 22, 2010 6:50 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Has anyone else noticed that Hazel is back (from her adventures with Heathcliff?)?  I wondered who would recover first.  Heathcliff is still missing Hazel.  You both disappeared at about the same time.  What were we to think?  I think that Park 4 may want a word with you in the club car (girl to girl).  Go ahead P4, no one is listening.

June 22, 2010 6:56 PM
1198 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Doc Nolan said...

Hmmm.... Jalopkin.... "And where were you in 1955 when I was on Active Duty ten thousand miles away from home, and my first child was born ??? Who was paying your bills then ??? How much of the world have you seen from a Gun-Emplacement or a Trench ???"  Since we were between wars in 1955 (Korea ran 1950-1953 and Vietnam hadn't 'ramped up' yet) what were you doing in a gun emplacement or a trench?  I assume, in a peacetime army, you mean maneuvers, right?  As for 'who was paying your bills then?', I might remind everyone that when one serves in the military (as I did) the taxpayer paid our bills.  In fact they paid housing allowance, base pay, TDY pay, etc, etc, etc.  Finally, the only place 10,000 miles from the United States is a small French-owned island group halfway between Australia and South Africa (i.e. in the middle of nowhere).  Perhaps you served there, but -- really?  The French Foreign Legion????? 

June 22, 2010 7:00 PM
800 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Michael said...

Just out of curiosity, what was going on in 1955? Korea was over, Indochina was a French Problem, China seized Taiwan, war officially ended between Russia and Germany, West Germany became a country (and a parking lot for very shiny, never used U.S. tanks) . . . I can't find any active U.S. military movements.

KC: I don't care if you disagree with me. I welcome it. If everyone agreed, the world would be incredibly boring. But I still don't see where Writergirl saying Jalopkin is wrong equals her being uninformed about the world.

June 22, 2010 7:12 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

lotlot, one warning to go with the book: after reading the book it may occur to you, not much later, to invest in such items as canvas, brushes, oil paints, an easel and a smock.  If you find yourself, one day, staring in a shop window that displays a beret on a mannequin, then turn to your wife and ask her to drive you back to a place and time when things were not so darn complicated,

June 22, 2010 7:22 PM
First-com Writer Girl said...

Thank you, rwh1, Michael, Doc ...

In 1955 my single mom was paying my bills. Can't remember if she was still managing the "picture show" or was secretary to the high school principal. (Guess which of her jobs I liked best!) I was nine.

I remember watching the news reels of Korea at the show; we didn't have a television. And, come to think of it, I suppose Mom was not only paying my bills but also helping to pay the brave men and women of our armed forces.

My dad joined the Seabees the day after Pearl Harbor. A lifetime later my son served in the Navy.

June 22, 2010 7:30 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

paolos, just located the book on Amazon. Thank you.

June 22, 2010 7:30 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

Hazel Leese--WELCOME  BACK!! 

June 22, 2010 7:34 PM
800 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Michael said...

Hazel: No running away allowed. Or we'll send the train after ya!

June 22, 2010 7:50 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

One:  I'm nobody's mommy, paolos.  I don't want to know what H & H were doing while away.  I'm just sort of lolling around in Wisconsin in the copious ? humidity, and when my lolling takes me indoors, I listen to that great Appalacian music of last week.  ...When it comes to misbehavin' that's not my business, just the misbehavin' -ers. ;)
 It's too hot to quibble, like I said upthread, and heat knocks me out before the count begins.  I'm a winter person.   ...but when it comes to opinions, I like that we all have them, and I like them to be explained, perhaps, rather than the other tactic......that old man river, he jest keeps rollin a....long...;)

June 22, 2010 7:51 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

I didn't mean to write One:, right up there in 7:50.  I don't know why I typed it.  Ignore it, please.  And thank you.

June 22, 2010 7:54 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

paolos~ you are wicked!!! My computer just refused to find this page on the wondrous world wide web, insisted it didn't exist. Gave me excuses like "cannot find server" or "find a cached copy" (what does that mean?) Maybe Heathcliff has been having the same problem. Does anybody have his E-mail to tell him to try again?
 
I was saying in an E-mail to one of our friends today that I was bought up in a multi-religious community & came to the conclusion that God is a multi-faceted diamond. Different peoples have different views - that's no reason to hate them. Churchill held some opinions that I would fiercely argue with, e.g. he sympathised with Hitler's ideas on eugenics - pre-war 2 & kept quiet about it after. Nobody's perfect.
 

June 22, 2010 8:12 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

HAZEL~ Welcome home!!!!!

Park4~ DID it smell like the original shampoo??? :)

June 22, 2010 8:31 PM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

This one is for Hazel, Heathcliff and Bert. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CBSpERIUFI&feature=related
 and this one is for those who love amarillo... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz0Mi_q-JEI&feature=related I am done. G'night all. 
  

June 22, 2010 8:36 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

G'night Paolos, sweet dreams!

June 22, 2010 8:43 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

And Paolos? You ARE the King of You Tube.....

June 22, 2010 8:43 PM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

Hazel and Heathcliff ~ here's a crackpot theory. You government has been playing with different Internet filters of late. Could be something was said here that flagged the site as seditious or some such thing. But then again I still can find the source of this humming sound inside my head.

June 22, 2010 8:53 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

KC: As long as the humming isn't The Monkees "The last Train to Clarksville"over and over and over you should be ok....

June 22, 2010 8:54 PM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

That should have been 'your government' and 'I can't' find the source.

June 22, 2010 8:54 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

KC: Actually I kind of like that song, maybe we should change that to the Beegee's "Staying Alive"....

June 22, 2010 9:00 PM
8251 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Kentucky Curmudgeon said...

JaxZ ~ it's actually 'Rocky Mountain High' being an avid John Denver fan I've only listened to that song like...well, alot.

Stranded island fare: if I could only have one of each.

Song; rocky mountain high
Movie; Jeremiah Johnson
Book; red storm rising
Pants; blue jeans
Shirt; flannel
Socks; argyle
Underwear; optional

That's my list and I'm sticking to it.

June 22, 2010 9:06 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

KC~ I think you might have a good theory there. Is the humming sound inside your head an annoying affiction called tinitus, or some sinister ailien influence?
 
I love you all, but I have to get some sleep. Goodnight, God Bless & I hope this page will open for me tomorrow.

June 22, 2010 9:15 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

KC: I moved to Colorado the summer that song went to number 1, we got to watch Jeremiah Johnson every year in history class (and I always had to hide when I cried). Have you seen this site? http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=6814

Argyle? really? {{laughing}}

June 22, 2010 9:28 PM
Com-100First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 jmr said...

When you hear someone go off go off on an irrational rant, I'm reminded of the scene in 12 Angry Men, when Lee J. Cobb, realizes it's his son that he's angry at. Not the rest of the world. Everyone is entitled to their opinions here. Nobody, well, (maybe a few), should apologize for them.

June 22, 2010 9:29 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

I think I'll just lurk around today's topic and say that Winston Churchill, seemingly was the right man at the right time for his countryand the world. His words were just what the people needed when they needed to hear them the most. Sometimes the wheels, gears and cogs that drive the universe work as a symphony of perfect synchronicity in the worst of times when it is needed the most. 

What an honor and a burden it must be for a mere man to be so tasked in such treacherous times. What spirit he/she must have to stay the course.

 

I hope he got to really enjoy his cigars and brandy. Perhaps some evening he could regale us with his memories in the club car some windy and stormy night. I know I'd pay attention

.

Enjoy your evening folks, be well

 


June 22, 2010 9:51 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

 
Optimism:
 hopefulness and confidence about the future or the successful outcome of something.
the belief that good must ultimately prevail over evil in the universe.
And-
 pa·tri·ot·ism
: love for or devotion to one's country and a willingness to act on her behalf.

Seem almost to represent a conflation situation in the best way.

nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
• an extreme form of this, esp. marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
pessimism |ˈpesəˌmizəm|
noun
a tendency to see the worst aspect of things or believe that the worst will happen; a lack of hope or confidence in the future : the dispute cast an air of deep pessimism over the future of the peace talks.
• Philosophy a belief that this world is as bad as it could be or that evil will ultimately prevail over good.
And:
cyn·i·cism  (sn-szm)
n.
1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others


Represent that in the worst way and today being one in which you can’t swing a dead cat around here without encountering too much of the latter and too little of the former.

Toughen up, stop your whining. Grow up and take responsibility for the fact that we have all played a role in getting where we are and in the leadership that we have elected.

In an era in which talking heads on cable make mountains out of molehills, excercise the power of the thumb, turn them off, get behind the leaders that we have and make the best of it.

In other words, be like your parents and grandparents: allow time and space for leadership to mature in an atmosphere of understanding while quietly appreciating that they will always promise more than they can deliver but they are all we’ve got.

As for Chartwell and other oases and quiet places, they are nice but they are as well a gift that we can all decide to give or deny ourselves requiring no acreage, plantings or babbling brooks.

It is a manageable job to get our hearts and minds in order so that no matter how unpleasant our circumstances, we can bring peace and calmness to them.

Like self-esteem, self-respect, self-control and dignity it is a gift we must give to ourselves. Maybe that is why it is not common.

 

June 22, 2010 10:36 PM
M 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Penn said...

I think I'll sit this one out in the club car with a cigar and a brandy...

June 22, 2010 10:49 PM
4220 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Daniel Zev said...

My finest hour tends to be early on Sunday mornings, alone in the kitchen, preparing Breakfast, listening to Sunday Baroque while Lady Red is fast asleep. 
 
Penn, pour me a double bourbon on the rocks, I'm right behind you.

June 22, 2010 11:03 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

The cigar sign is lit. Smoke'm if you got'em

June 22, 2010 11:16 PM
800 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Michael said...

Too hot for hard booze. I'll have a river-cooled ale, please.

June 22, 2010 11:34 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

It's never too hot or too late for a good Mint Julep. Even if you don't have the simple syrup or the mint.

June 22, 2010 11:35 PM
First-com Writer Girl said...

Well said at 9:51, Stoney.

June 23, 2010 12:20 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

In Answer to you all,  The point is, as I said in my just previous Post here ... If you want to teach me something, you have to know more than I do ...  DOC: I applaud your Lineal-Macro Recall of our Military efforts, at least as far as you seem to be aware ... There are, apparently, some disagreements that you are unaware of, that the government never made much noise about, because Wars have never been popular and the country was just tired of hearing about it and dealing with it ... Do you really think the Korean War just stopped, like the flick of a Lightswitch one day ???  Are you unaware of how long the French-Indo China War had been going on, before we overtly took it over ???  Is what you know something you read out of a Book somewhere ???  What I know, is from being there, when we were not only not supposed to be there, but weren't even supposed to talk about it ... Whats that you say ???  The government wouldn't keep secrets like that ???  It is to laugh ... Some of you people need to grow up, and stop believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny ...  I don't care whether one agrees with me or not ... but don't just tell me I am wrong about something, unless you can prove that I am, and you actually know something about what you're speaking of, and not just spewing the sanitized and edited crap of some white-livered Do-Gooder ... It is fine if someone disagrees, but at least have the courtesy to say, I Think You Are Wrong, or I Don't Agree, or something that civilized people would say, to prefix their rightful disagreement ... If you are going to just blast away and say, "You're Wrong So Many Ways That I Can't Count" ... You'd better have your stuff together, and be able to prove it ... Everyone is entitled to his opinion, and I applaud that ... but opinions don't prove Squat ...
 
rwh:  That you even ask that question, tells me that you are younger than I thought you were, and that you probably wouldn't be able to understand the concept anyway ... Got zol dir helfin .......

June 23, 2010 10:57 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/borderpatrol.asp     Retired Border Patrol Agent Letter
 

 
This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from a retired border patrol agent,
and it has more common sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate,
with the exception of a few sensible representatives.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myth circulating about illegal aliens,
particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

#1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want US citizenship. Americans are very vain
thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a US citizen. Mexicans, and
other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining
the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care,
instate tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their
offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains
at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans.
What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying
the price.

#2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs
that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take
low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and
send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't
do for a decent wage.

#3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT
homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries.
They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20
billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal
aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and
therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their
alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

#4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less
than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful
US residents.

#5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born
Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by
immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on
this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

#6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not
immigrants by definition. The US accepts more lawful immigrants every year
than the rest of the world combined.

#7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote." Hispanics are white, brown,
black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats,
Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic
vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

#8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have
resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies
to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the US. During World War II Mexico
allowed the Axis powers to spy on the US from Mexico. During the Cold War
Mexico allowed spies hostile to the US to operate freely. The attack on the Twin
Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican
school children are taught that the US stole California, Arizona, New Mexico
and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written
for their school children.

#9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6
billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one
dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak
into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn
the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native
born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want
a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better
life a good reason to trash another nation?

#10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds
of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students,
unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

#11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure
borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak
into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens,
children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to
violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying
the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure
our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These
politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has
resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has
already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will
be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have
stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to US citizens or to
offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep
either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the
courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs
of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning.

It will come in November of this year.
We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard
US Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford, Arizona

Prime Web

How to Give a Speech

How to Give a Speech wittcom.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.

The 35 Greatest Speeches in History

The 35 Greatest Speeches in History /artofmanliness.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.

top American Hundred Speeches 20th century

top American Hundred Speeches 20th century americanrhetoric.com Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Honor Roll


Some  people  are  fluent  with  eloquent  words  without  even  breaking  a  sweat.    Abraham  ...

-Bert

Jun. 22, 2010 6:53 AM

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Poll

Most stirring speech?

  • Winston Churchill: Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat, 1940 Winston Churchill: Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat, 1940 23%
  • Abraham Lincoln: Gettysburg Address, 1863 Abraham Lincoln: Gettysburg Address, 1863 26%
  • Patrick Henry: Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death, 1775 Patrick Henry: Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death, 1775 13%
  • Susan B. Anthony: Women's Rights to the Suffrage, 1873 Susan B. Anthony: Women's Rights to the Suffrage, 1873 5%
  • Martin Luther King, Jr. I have a Dream, 1963 Martin Luther King, Jr. I have a Dream, 1963 28%
  • You tell us You tell us 5%

Yesterday's Discussion

Ready or not, the summer solstice is upon us.

 

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