Can't They Just Get Along

This must be where being a square peg is useful: the questions are how and why? I just wonder when and who instead. Nothing required but patience.

If a tree falls in the forest, and it just appens to kill a forest animal, and no one is there to see it, is the dead animal still going to animal heaven?

Dunno about that Roadie but it reminds me of this story...not very scientific but bears telling...

A man decided to skip Mass one Sunday and head to the hills to do some bear hunting. As he rounded the corner on a perilous twist in the trail, he and a bear collided, sending him and his rifle tumbling down the mountainside. Before he knew it, his rifle went one way and he went the other, landing on a rock and breaking both his legs. That was the good news. The bad news was the ferocious bear charging at him from a distance, and he couldn't move.

"Oh, Lord," the man prayed, "I'm so sorry for skipping Mass today to come out here and hunt. Please forgive me and grant me just one wish . . . Please make a Christian out of that bear that's coming at me. Please, Lord!"

That very instant, the bear skidded to a halt, fell to its knees, clasped its paws together and began to pray aloud right at the man's feet. "Dear God" the bear said, "Bless this food I am about to receive."

Whenever I think of the conflict between religion & science I think of the "Scopes Monkey Trial" in Tennessee in 1925.  The thought of arresting and jailing a teacher for committing the unpardonable sin of teaching the theory of evolution in a public school in modern times is hard to fathom.  The resulting  great  debate between William Jennings Bryant & Clarence Darrow was the subject matter of the classic movie "Inherit the Wind."  Change in the form of new scientific theory is often threatening to those who hold traditional religious beliefs,  but darkness & repression are alternatives that are much scarier than the insecurities associated with having to reexamine how we view the universe.....

The   SCIENCE   of ThermoDynamics, particularly in the Law of Entropy ... proves beyond any doubt that God is .......
 
The Horse ... is the ONLY Animal that has ever been in God's Heaven (from the Third Level up to the Seventh) and contrary to what we have been told by Doris Keppelhoff and her ilk, Animals do not have Souls ... Whether or not that means a lot of us will NOT be spending Eternity with Our Best Friend, remains to be seen ... There is no Historic Precedent for it ... Having lost all six of my Dogs in the last fifteen months, I can say that, I really hope I will be seeing them again ... and I am most certain that Heaven won't be in Brooklyn, because there is only One Tree ... I hope all the Pets I have had that I had , that got the Bob Barker Treatment (and I don't mean Grecian Formula) don't rush up to bite me all at once .......
 
Scopes should have had the Right to teach Evolution, but Students should have had the Right to opt out of the Class ...
 
Everybody is going to spend Eternity SOMEwhere ... but Where, depends upon Whom they have believed .......
 
Character, is having the courage to do what is Right, regardless of how unpopular it might be .......
 
When Your Toast slides off your plate, it will ALWAYS land Butter-side-Down .......
 
And now, I am going to bed, an hour early, for a change .......

Lots of theory but not enough hard evidence.  Guess this debate is  what keeps the world turning.

I often think God must be sniggering on His throne, looking at us trying to squeeze him into either the Religion box or keep Him out of the Science box.
As if He can be contained, or our minds are big enough for Him.

Man is arrogant to think that our knowledge of science is complete as is. Yet, religion is so often corrupted and bastardised. Being religious is not equivalent to being spiritual

No...................

As long as I am in this confined space (my body) with limited understanding (my mind) I shall allow my eternal part to operate by the Physical Laws of the Universe. It is a wonderful experience and one God deemed appropriate. I am an eternal being but I have life insurance and have been vaccinated. I see no conflict or paradox but instead find it interesting and fun. Spring's last sentence says it all. I add intellectual snobbery is also a slam against good-hearted simple folks who are perfectly happy in their faith.

Today is Miss blue day.  I have acclaimed it so. 
For good reason. 
First is her Eyedentity motto as it appears on her
personality page and pertains to today's topic.
Most of the change we think we see in life is due
to truths being in and out of favor.
There is and there cannot be any conflict between religion and science, it
is our own minds that are conflicted.
I speak this truth ex cathedra, there can be no argument.
 
Secondly, her post yesterday, deserving of high
honorific acclaim in itself, is a perfect example of religious and scientific
doctrine melding.
It may have something to do with having
dominion over.  I am not going to try to explain it, I'll just let y'all
chew on it for awhile. 
 
Thirdly, If any of you recall our (me and m.blue)
exchange yesterday, I introduced the term concrete into the discussion
of Nutall and botany and her clever retort was
about a good foundation for her daughter's
education...the exchange prompted this link by way of our host's Ad Choice that
appears in your side bars...
http://www.merts.com/
 
I think it is hilarious.  But then I will laugh at
just about anything.

Scientists are not arrogant; they do not believe science has all the answers to everything.   Anyone who believes differently needs to read up on what the Scientific Method entails, from observation to hypothesis to testing and to the constant updating based on contradictory observations that cannot be explained by current accepted beliefs.
 
Religion is a matter of opinion.  The human brain is constructed to solve puzzles (and some other mammals also are capable of solving puzzles).  As a result we are programmed to seek answers and explanations for what may well be unanswerable questions. 
 
Please consider that religion taught that the earth is the center of the universe; that when observation suggested a different explanation (both in antiquity and again with Copernicus' theories which he dared not publish during his lifetime, and Galileo's direct observations which confirmed the hypotheses) the Christian church denied the observable facts, condemned Galileo to house arrest, and only recently recanted it's wrong-headed behavior and beliefs.
 
At one time I worked with a janitor who did not believe that the US had landed on the moon.  His "logic" was that if he got out of his car on the freeway doing just 60 mph, he'd be killed outright, ergo it was impossible to get out of a capsule and stand on the moon; everything was fake photography.  His belief was unshakable.  Please note: he was a janitor, not a rocket scientist.  He did not have a high school education nor a college degree.  He was a decent person, upright, honest, hardworking, sincere.
 
Skepticism is a useful attribute that all human beings need to foster. 

Fifty years after the sudden death of our oldest brother, (he was sixteen, at football practice and though we didn't know it at the time, it made the Milwaukee Journal), I noticed on line the name of professor emeritus in one of the sciences at a Big Ten university who had been his friend.
I emailed him saying that his name had come up over the years when we, the brothers, got together and we wondered how he was doing adding that his title suggested, pretty well.
It was clear that being obliged to comment on the subject was not welcome: our brother had been, he said, like a brother to him- an only child with parents as senior-looking as Andy Hardy's (Lionel Barrymore and Spring Byington in the early going).
There had never been a day that he had not grieved the loss, he had forgotten about us and had taken refuge in the medicine with, it seemed, pretty uneven results.
He ended thusly: "I don't expect you to understand what that event did to my life."
He was right. It was impossible to get a fix on that kind of me-ness.
Other of our brother's close friends, Walter, Dan, Jerry and Howard, one of whom is a protestant minister, were all really glad to hear from me having been curious about how the family fared and all expressing in some way that they had wondered: "Why him?"
The point, and there is one, is that without a comforting spiritual element on which to hang your hat, you can, it seems, bang around inside the sooty stove pipe of the worst day of your life… forever.

 Paolos, thanks!

Nice to be appreciated!

I am quite busy with Human Anatomy and Physiology.....trying to convert my BS to a BSN...eventually, hopefully, a Masters to be a PN, NP, Nutritionist or Nurse Educator. I'll be working, like everyone else now until I'm 90 LOL.

I graduated, the first time 36 years ago! I need "retraining" so I can find a meaningful (as in MONEY) job.

Funny thing, the more I learn, scientifically, about the marvelous machine, the human body, the more I am in awe; something to be said for intelligent design?

I have NEVER been conflicted by my spiritual views and my scientific knowledge.

Religion is a political creature; all creatures "evolve" by their very nature. Exposure to "forces" such as "light" will trigger it, as will pure chance.

Miss Blue ~
While we're on the subject of appreciation, I'd like to day that you are one of few persons with nutrition knowledge that does not speak of food as the enemy.
I love you for that.
S


Just came across this:
If you are going to criticize someone first walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them you will be a mile away and you'll have their shoes---Will Rogers

STONEY:
You reminded me of this one. One of my favorties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoznjbKVnmw

Slime plus time equals....Us?

Methinks not.

Science V. Religon?    Just what do you think they call the Lord on other planets?

The question above is nonsensical. It suggests massive polarization as fact not theory. It assumes individuals are not capable of differing or holding multiple thoughts to be correct on thousands of points if they ascribe truth to any the self-appointed arbiter deems untrue.

No one speaks or answers for what I hold true but me. No one knows what I think of either fields represented or how they do, or do not mesh. To present an assumption as accurately representing my thoughts on these subjects in any generalization would be irrefutable proof of the absence of logic.

religion: a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance

science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment

So much unproductive assuming between the lines. A perfect way to waste time instead of doing.

Let me clarify my position.  Hi Jax.  How's the new grandbaby? 
When I read your TWAIN post the other day I immediately thought of Buttons and
Mindy from the Animaniacs. 
But I digress.
Earlier, I spoke ex cathedra because I expect no one else would and because there can be no conflict
between true science and true religion.  I am not talking about belief systems
or scientific theory. I am only talking about truth.  Conflict between science
and religion would be a conflict between truth.  That would be a paradox.  With
two halves, the human mind can always try to reconcile a paradox, but my
singular mind cannot.

Paolos she's a miracle of Truth. ;)

Whether you throw in completely with science, completely with religion, a little of each or none of either, the nicest people to be around, to help if they need it or to call upon if you do, are the ones who say things like this: "I don't know what's at the center of everything, I just know it isn't me."

I agree with what you have surmized from the authors, Mr. Peterman.  I have always thought that this is why God gave humans a brain (most of us a working one) which gives us that opportunity to make choices. 
 
A prime example:  an older man (53 years old) and an older woman (43 years old) make a concious decision to have a baby.  It is her first (after many failed attempts) and his FOURTH!  Both knowing that this will absolutely be a very high risk pregnancy, still keep trying.  Of course, the baby is born prematurely and has many physical challenges.  The father is as proud as peacock saying that this child is a gift from God.  No....God gave them a choice to procreate.  They did.  They got what they wanted and now, six years later, are entering into their golden years with a six year old to care for who has many physical challenges.  Back in my parents' day, this would have been called an accident, or as my mother refered to the  last two of her eight children as her "bonuses". 
 
Yes, there are many questions and debates about God, science, and how man manipulates the two to have their [man's] desired outcome.  God has given us an intellect to develop our sciences.  God gives us our intellect to make choices. 
 
God is our creator.  I am sure God smiles at every new discovery and advancement in science.  He sees we are using what he has given us. 
 
So, to put it as simple as possible....There could not be any science whatsoever if there was not the existence of God.
 

Religion and theology are not the same to me.  Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Shintoism, all are religions but only one of them, Islam, professes a God, Allah.   Jews and Christians share a belief in that God.  In all my studies I have never found the theology of Moslems, Jews or Christians saying scientists should not be believed.  Nor have I ever heard a good scientist saying you have to give up your Jewish, Moslem or Christian theology to be a scientist. 
I think some scientists have not yet, and mybe never will, found a spiritual haven in the God-creator theology not that theology and science cannot agree. 
Just as an example, Albert Einstein believed that his scientific-mathamatics proved to him beyond a doubt that there had to be a creator.    

Oops: saying scientists should not believe.

Ladies & Gentlemen ... It seems that even among The Best and The Brightest ... there are some tendencies shared with the Lower Forms ... Unfortunate, but no denigration of the Intelligence Level Possibilities of the Elite ... Simply a lack of seasoning and experience ... Not necessarily anyone's fault ...
 
Like most everybody else ... I Religiously brush my Teeth, and Bathe ... I Religiously Cook, Eat, and Clean Up ... Religion is something done by rote, in the same fashion, in the same way, and often at the same time on each occurrence ...  Religion is NOT to be confused with, Faith ... nor is it interchangable Conceptually ... Faith is a Decision that one makes, to Believe a certain thing or certain way ... "Faith ... is the Substance of Things Unseen ..."
 
There   IS  NO  "Science vs. Religion" ... More aptly, it would be, Science vs. Faith ... And, as I said above .. When SCIENCE, ... NOT ... Theory, proves clearly that there must be, a SuperNatural Force/Being/Intelligence ... then it must be understood that there really is no Science vs. Faith, at all ... rather ... simply a Limited/Stunted/Unprepared ability for Humans to Understand Concepts, and Grow ...
 
Pointing No Fingers ... I remind you all that there are some people who just won't accept Fact, regardless of how concretely demonstrative it might be ... That sad truth is why we get from Scripture the verse that says, "None are so blind as those who Will Not see ..."
Bastardy has not a thing tro do with a Child's birth "Out of Wedlock" ... that erroneous understanding was given to us by Nimrod's Universal Cult Worship, somewhere in the 3rd.Century BC ... Bastardy, has solely to do with those who WILL NOT hear the Truth ...
 
Scripture says, " and a Bastard shall not enter the Gates of heaven ..."  Are we really to believe(those of us who do Believe) that an All Loving, All Forgiving God, would deny Heaven to an Infant just because his parents didn't have plane fare to Reno ???  Does anybody really believe that in those days, there was a Rabbi/Priest/JP on every street corner ??? And what the hell difference does it make anyway ???  Is it the Child's fault who his daddy is ???  Does that ceremony/Licence make Paternity any more binding ???
 
A Bastard is one who WILL NOT hear the Truth ...  But of course, we also have Free Will, which means that we have the Right to believe anything we want to, Scientific or otherwise ... Man tries to explain things so that he will feel good about himself ... That which he cannot explain, to his own glorification and satisfaction, he calls Myth or denies completely ... After all, accepting the Truth means that one also accepts his Duty to and For that Truth, and that means first, one's having to admit that he could be fooled, and for so embarrassingly long .......
 
As I said ... The SCIENCE of ThermoDynamics, proves that my  FAITH  is well founded ...
 
 
 
ps: Credit to DAVID HALBERSTAM ... 

OT: I am so slow! Paolos and Stoney, thank your for the Twain hugs. I've been writing all day (as my mostly unintelligble post illustrates! Too many government docs!) and kept scratching my head over them until I went back and read the last two days posts. xo

Hello VeraM!

I'm sure we've all read a variation of this story, an extra credit exam for a class of Physics students needing a grade boost. This answer, even if it's false, was at least written by someone with a good sense of humor, and at least humorously addresses the Law of Thermodynamics (heat transfer). It makes me laugh every time I read it.

Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different Religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "it will be a cold day in Hell before I go out with you", and take into account the fact that I went out with her last night, then number 2 must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over.

The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct . . . leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God."

Woohoooooo! If someone didn't already post this: From yesterday on Hazel's FB page!

Haze spilled a coffee on her laptop and it is well and truly dead! I am typing this post on the new laptop I've bought for her and will be taking up to Wales on Friday evening. So she should be back online soon!

Why can't they get along?

Maybe if they just stopped and really tried to listen, an understanding and level of comfort that is greater than the sum of the two diametrically seperate parts might be achieved.

I may be a fool, but if this barrier to understanding and acceptance isn't rooted in the fear of being wrong and facing the idea that not all questions have answers, nor are we entitled to them..... I'm probably a bigger fool than i suspected.

Anyroads, that is the excuse that i'll probably have in my pocket when i find the end of the road. I do not want my epitaph to be that he spent his days "wondering how he came to be sat on a hill"

I am questioning my questionable value added on this topic so i'll just say.....peace out...and good luck, hope you find what you are looking for here today.

"...all are religions but only one of them, Islam, professes a God, Allah. Jews and Christians share a belief in that God."

Rusty, here is where the differences come in. I'd say the primary difference between Christianity/Judaism, and Islam, is the access to the God they call upon (which are not the same) and the order in which the two Gods were revealed, Allah being second.

Islam has god on a high mountain (or a higher plane) and one must work to reach him. It's the nuts and terrorists that have given Islam a bad rap. Unfortunately, the biggest offense to a Muslim is Jesus Christ himself.

Judaism has a belief in the same God as Christianity, and was indeed the precursor to Christianity. Messianic Jews, in my opinion, have it as right as right gets.

To say that Christians and Jews share a belief in the same God as Muslims, well, is incorrect. The differences are as far as the east is from the west.

Let me share this with you:

Compared to Christianity, Islam has some similarities but significant differences. Like Christianity, Islam is monotheistic. However, Muslims reject the Trinity—that God has revealed Himself as one in three Persons: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Muslims claim that Jesus was a mere prophet—not God’s Son. Islam asserts that Jesus, though born of a virgin, was created like Adam. Many Muslims do not believe Jesus died on the cross. They do not understand why Allah would allow His prophet Isa (the Islamic word for "Jesus") to die a torturous death. Yet the Bible shows how the death of the perfect Son of God was essential to pay for the sins of believers (Isaiah 53:5-6; John 3:16; 14:6; 1 Peter 2:24).

Islam teaches that the Qur'an is the final authority and the last revelation of Allah. The Bible, however, was completed in the first century with the Book of Revelation. The Bible warns against anyone adding to or subtracting from God’s Word (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6; Galatians 1:6-12; Revelation 22:18). The Qur’an, as a claimed addition to God’s Word, directly disobeys God’s command.

Muslims believe that paradise can be earned through keeping the Five Pillars. The Bible, in contrast, reveals that sinful man can never measure up to the holy God (Romans 3:23; 6:23). Only by God’s grace may sinners be saved through repentant faith in Jesus (Acts 20:21; Ephesians 2:8-9).

Because of these essential differences and contradictions, Islam and Christianity cannot both be true. The Bible and Qur’an cannot both be God’s Word. The truth has eternal consequences, and not the "Pascal's Wager" type of consequences. God knows the seed buried in each man and woman's heart.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world” (1 John 4:1-4; see also John 3:35-36).

I drove my stake in the ground and proclaim my faith in Jesus Christ decades ago. I am not ashamed of the God I serve. To some of you that statement alone is as foreign as waking up in a third world country and not knowing the language.

With love, humility, and patience, Christians must present Jesus as Lord and Savior. “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me’(John 14:6). This is what I have learned from my faith walk (note: not religion).

Peace be with you all.

JaxZ~ I'm happy you found Hazel. I've been concerned. Also thanks for your generous solution. Have you met her before?

JaxZ~ I'm happy you found Hazel. I've been concerned. Also thanks for your generous solution. Have you met her before?

Reconciling my Faith with the scientific community, for me at least, is simple. I accept God as Creator, Master Biochemist and Physicist. Evolutionary "Theory" (currently taugh with religious fervor in public schools) requires considerably more faith than any combination of denominational doctrine I have ever read. It's akin to detonating an atomic bomb in a massive galactic junkyard and a fueled up,running, piloted, and fully staffed Boeing 747 sitting ready for takeoff (on a runway) after the smoke has cleared.

Study the changes to the Mount St. Helens region after the eruption. You'll see in plain english how the ecosystem was violently altered, a lake was moved miles away in a matter of hours, and how a whole new ecosystem sprang back up in a matter of years. Not centuries and certainly not in millions of years, as evolutionary religion would have us believe.

Descrepancies in the fossil record. The tooth of a four legged mammal made into "proof" of ancientman. The lies concerning global warming that Al Gore became a billionairre carpetbagger using, and the subsequent "inconveinent truth" of the lies revealed concerning the real truth.

Don't get me wrong, we as human beings need to take care of our planet. I'm a tree hugger but I believe my two grandsons should have clean drinking water and be able to swim in the ocean some day without catching a disease.

I'm NOT a tree hugger, should have read. Haha.

To all ~ Maybe I overstepped my authority speaking ex cathedra.  I
knew that the minute I said there can be no argument that y'all would
have at it.  Did that stop me?  Did I even stop to think?  Does the mention of
Gustav Mahler cause your eyes to twitch?  When Stoney professes his love for
Miss Blue's position on food...let me rephrase that...

 
 
UMMGAWA ~  Is your book out yet?
 
 

 
 
Umngawa
 
The good Lord set that whole "slime -time" thing into motion.....In my mind anyway.

Waiting for the copyright process to be completed, was told two weeks ago the process takes 14-16 weeks. Content done, font style, paper quality, interior art, book cover complete. Just a waiting game now. I'll definatly let you know when, and thanks!

Ummgawa ~ Well said, whether or not your are a Tree Hugger.  I have my faith walk and lead by example for my sons to know their faith.  Life is full of choices and I choose to be happy every day I am blessed to live. 
 
Jalopkin ~"None are so blind as those who Will Not see ..." and there are those that won't see my happiness in my faith and I laugh at their petty attempts to disprove it.
 
Thank you all for an ejoyable read, I am glad Ms. Hazel is fine will have a new laptop. 
I am training my Mother on hers.  Now off to Bible study!

Peneloptx- not a tree hugger for sure. You and I share the same faith example. Life is a true gift from God. "I will rejoice and be glad in it". Enjoy your Bible study.

Miss Blue, When God spoke the world into existence, his words traveled at the speed of light or faster. I imagine it was purdy violent in the beginning. Slime traveling at 299,792,458 miles / second might dissipate to some degree. A few days later, when things had settled some, He created man "In Our image".

He/ She spoke what we now call the big bang...maybe...We being created in His/Her own image  could mean something as simple as we each "see" the Lord our own way. (In the Lord's image would imply male and female attributes...)

Since the Lord is infallible and "we" are not, who's to say that what was understood and transcribed was absolutely accurate. (I don't buy the whole by divine inspiration answer to that either...for that very reason)

My brain hurts.

 
 
 
 
one more thought....the middle ground could be the Middle Path...just sayin'.

Barkeep, pour me a two finger shot of skepticism to go with my glass of ignorant golden bliss. After all these years that dyslexic friend of mine continues to believe strongly in dog. He continues to remind me racecar is our middle ground...

Must confess I was ready for combustion when I first read today's topic.  I was ready for a barrage and am happily comforted in the community spirit of the Village and the respect displayed by the comments.  So far, no one has flown off the handle or gone for the throat which this topic can often lead to.  Cheers and salutations to all of you people of good heart and good soul!

This has been my Parents way of thinking about Science & religion for as long as I can remember.     My Mother is an RN & a very strict Missouri Synd Lutheran. In my opinion one can't be both because you have to be able to trust in science to help, and faith to intervene.  They are not mutually exclusive or at least my parents did not bring us up to believe that they can & should be.   For me the old adage that "There's No Aithiest's in a Foxhole" pretty much sums the whole Philosphy of this up for me.     

 
 
 
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6IDoxi9QsE
 
 

Somebody, finishing up the only interview I was ever asked to give, asked: "Do you pray?"
"What," I asked, "is your definition of prayer?"
Impatiently exhaling, he explained that it was asking the higher power for "stuff."
"Apart," I answered, "from to watch over my loved ones, friends and people in some kind of a jam, I don't do a lot of that kind of praying."
Even more impatiently, he wondered what my kind of praying was and how often I did it?
"About a hundred times a day and it is pretty simple: 'Thank You, thank You very much.'"

Georgie, I should have elaborated, that was a post on her facebook wall. I think it was from her son. HE bought her the computer. :)

Stoney, that's one of my favorite run-on sentences: 'Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou..."
Sometimes in sobs, sometimes in laughter.

Miss Blue, the bible is clear when it states that God is in the image of a man. Adam was created "in our Image, in our we created him" and woman came from man later upon removal of Adam's rib. Eve didn't have male/female attributes nor did Adam. The wording is crystal clear. If you read in Genesis, Adam couldn't find a suitable mate, so God created Eve....

Specifically, Scripture contains approximately 170 references to God as the “Father.” By necessity, one cannot be a father unless one is male. If God had chosen to be revealed to man in a female form, then the word “mother” would have occurred in these places, not “father.” In the Old and New Testaments, masculine pronouns are used over and over again in reference to God.

Jesus Christ referred to God as the Father several times and in other cases used masculine pronouns in reference to God. In the Gospels alone, Christ uses the term “Father” in direct reference to God nearly 160 times. Of particular interest is Christ’s statement in John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.” Obviously, Jesus Christ came in the form of a human man to die on the cross as payment for the sins of the world. Like God the Father, Jesus was revealed to humanity in a male form. Scripture records numerous other instances where Christ utilized masculine nouns and pronouns in reference to God.

The New Testament Epistles (from Acts to Revelation) also contain nearly 900 verses where the word theos—a masculine noun in the Greek—is used in direct reference to God. In countless references to God in Scripture, there is clearly a consistent pattern of His being referred to with masculine titles, nouns, and pronouns. While God is not a man, He chose a masculine form in order to reveal Himself to humanity. Likewise, Jesus Christ, who is constantly referred to with masculine titles, nouns, and pronouns, took a male form while He walked on the earth. The prophets of the Old Testament and the apostles of the New Testament refer to both God and Jesus Christ with masculine names and titles.

As far as the "middle ground" being the "Middle path", I'm not sure, biblically, of what you are referring to. There is distinct talk of the "Narrow gate" and the "wide path", adding that "few find it". Matthew 7:13-14 states;

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

The wide gate refers to those Christians who because "they are a good person" and "have never killed anyone" are convinced of their spot in heaven. Narrow gate Christianity is considerably more involved and based on the works your faith compels you to do, Ephesians 2:8-9 states plainly:

8"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Verse 9 is telling us our Faith is not based on some strange checklist we've though up in our heads. Denominations in the USA have Americanized Jesus to fit 'us' rather than 'us' conforming to his word and his call on our lives. Most folk will plainly state "Overseas missions is definitely not for me", but won't go to a soup kitchen to help out in some capacity, or give a blanket to a homeless person meaning Local missions aren't your thing either. Jesus said "take the gospel to all the world" meaning, he loves you and if you truly believe it, you should be compelled to joyously share that same love with others, and every now and again open you mouth while you are at it. These are not my words.

If "Middle ground" to to you means to compromise what God's infallible word says, then use Revelation 3 as a guide, when the author describes the Church at Laodicea.They have the distinction of being labeled the "lukewarm" church. Those who view the 7 churches of Revelation as a panoramic view of the church ages see Laodicea as representing the end-times church which is neither hot nor cold, but slumbering in their materialistic spiritual stupor. While this view certainly seems to have some validity, I think it's more beneficial to realize that this again was a real church facing real problems and that every person in every era of the church age can glean something from it. With that in mind, let's look at the lukewarm church and learn from it's mistakes.

Laodicea was an actual church, but the region was an area where two rivers came together, one hot and one cold, and when they converged in the town, the pools were lukewarm. Religious leaders of the day visited there and based upon fact these same religious leaders would compromise themselves by excessive drinking and prostitutes. Then leave and go back to being religious leaders with compromised morals and ineffective ministries. God hated them so much that he said he'd "Vomit them out of his mouth", only the second time a term like "vomit" was used, second only to Jonah being vomited up on the shores of Ninevah after running from God's call and command. God would rather one were cold, He can work with that.

Seems to me, words like "God vomiting you up" because you are full of compromise, giving false testimony, misleading or changing the word of God, should scare a follower or at least give one pause. This same 'vomited' status also applies to us as Christians if we alter God's word or bend it to suit our individual needs or desire to be "right".

-"You got your matter in my form"
-"You got your science in my philosophy"
-"You got your knowledge in my wisdom"
-"You got your chocolate in my peanut butter"
***Balance

JaxZ, thanks for the news about Hazel and thanks for the delivery of her new ability to communicate with us. She's a great gal so I'm sure you will enjoy your visit with her.
 
Guess I kind of look at the Moslim, Hebrew, Cristian God as shared because of Isaac and Ishmael who carried the belief of thier father Abraham, born Abram.  So it is the God of Abraham.  The God of Isaac and the God of Jacob as well as the God of Ishmael.  I do, however, agree that Christians are the only ones who profess a belief in Jesus or the Trinity.   

I am not a Christian.

 I do believe in a Supreme Deity.

I prefer the Apophatic description of G-d.

G-d's existence is absolute and it includes no composition and we comprehend only the fact that He exists, not His essence. "

Maimonides, The guide for the Perplexed

I would take that to include "gender"

My Middle Path comment was a play on words; referencing that concept in Buddhism as a possible way to reconcile what we "know" and what we "believe".

Carol,

You spoke too soon.

I don't think anyone whould have listen to a woman enven if she was sent by God to teach and redeem in the times when Jesus lived.  Women in that day were not of much importance and certainly not to be preaching in the synagogue or the streets.  It had to be a man.  ALso when the men wrote the Bible they were the dominante and left the women out as much as possible.  Male dominated world+male dominated writtings. 

Miss Blue....indeed I did....indeed Idid......

Yea, Miss Blue!

I have a family member who has a PhD in Herpetology specializing in Evolution. He is also a devout evangelical Christian. There is no conflict for him between science and religion and he points out that only the small percentage of scientists who proclaim themselves as athiests find problems between the two. Most scientists recognize that there are questions we can't answer with science, and that is where faith is necessary. THe big one he points out to me is where life came from. Not how we came to be, but what caused the organization required and then caused the reaction for life. He always likes to point out that when we as intteligent individuals develop experimental settings to allow recombination of molecules to perhaps form a living cell, we are intelligent designers.  Not saying that I or he has all the answers, just the views we have.

I have a family member who has a PhD in Herpetology specializing in Evolution. He is also a devout evangelical Christian. There is no conflict for him between science and religion and he points out that only the small percentage of scientists who proclaim themselves as athiests find problems between the two. Most scientists recognize that there are questions we can't answer with science, and that is where faith is necessary. THe big one he points out to me is where life came from. Not how we came to be, but what caused the organization required and then caused the reaction for life. He always likes to point out that when we as intteligent individuals develop experimental settings to allow recombination of molecules to perhaps form a living cell, we are intelligent designers.  Not saying that I or he has all the answers, just the views we have.

Ouch...hope we survive today....

Can I try to divert some attention?  Has anyone seen that the Netherlands is now scrapping their multiculturalism policy? It will place more demands on immigrants, with the view for more integration...Hooray I say!

http://www.hudson-ny.org/2219/netherlands-abandons-multiculturalism

Welcome Deadfield....(world of warcraft fan?)

Life without discourse would be sucky. But like Socrates when you seek the Truth totally unabashed, you just might be asked to drink the Hemlock.

My writing are from someone who is a man who believes in Christ. I'm not trying to be anything other than a messenger of the word, what I am called to be. I am simply responding to what I perceived as a need for answers. I don't think I've been mean or judgmental to anyone. I'm certainly not making motions then voting against them, nor am I calling anyone specifically out. Miss Blue, based on some of your comments, my perception was/is of a person that stands in conflict of what the bible clearly states concerning the issues you raised. You've only stated your position as a non-christian at 9:26 p.m. This has been a topic all this day with your first comment being at 11:24 am. Now I know.

I stand by what I have written. And, even though we disagree on most spiritual matters, I still embrace your and my differences.

Carol- I don't think I have caused any harm here, do you?

Rusty, Messianic Jews do also proclaim the same as Christians.

Tommy, are you speaking in code? Say what you mean...please.

What was the question if there was one?
If there wasn't, where have all these answers come from and why?

 
 
 
The question was....is there middle ground between Science and Religion.
 
 
No mention of specific belief systems was made.
 

 
 
 
"Socrates was tried on the basis of two notoriously ambiguous charges: corrupting the youth and impiety (in Greek, asebeia). More specifically, Socrates' accusers cited two "impious" acts: "failing to acknowledge the gods that the city acknowledges" and "introducing new deities." "
His sentence was execution by , drinking hemlock, a poison.

I'm a bit cinfused, Ummgawa.  Messianic Jews say the same thing about what?  I don't think you have any idea what my religion is, let alone my theology.

Umm- No code. Just rambling. I am a huge fan of C.S. Lewis and believe that in heaven, joy and laughter are serious business. I am just passing through this 3D College of Human Behavior believing "If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." It would not surprise me if that heavenly band of angels that come to set me free are wearing J Peterman Dusters. Love you brother. Passion is on short supply.

most interesting discourse. Tea and scones are bing put out in the clubcar, along with anything stronger if one desires. There, a reference to food,at last

"A thousand pictures can be drawn from one word
Only who is the artist
We got to agree
A thousand miles can lead so many ways
Just to know who is driving
What a help it would be"

No mention of specific belief systems was made. - But the picture at the top says "Holy Bible", so Peterman was being specific.

Rusty- 9:25 pm- "I do, however, agree that Christians are the only ones who profess a belief in Jesus or the Trinity." Not making any guesses about your religion or theology. But Messianic Jews believe in Jesus, actually Emmanuel, meaning "God with us", same as Christians. I was correcting the statement made by you. You theology and religion is your business.

Poems are made by fools who rant, but only man will make a concrete plant.  If you must try this on your own, start with one part cement, three parts sand, add water, stir. Best if using expansive cement, the off brands don't work as well. Stand back and watch it grow.

i dont think there is anyway science and religion could co excist peacefully.  religion is fictitious
its not logical its something you have to believe in w/o being able to prove it by holding on to it or making it a variable in a math problem.  People who think logically dont understand something you cant find proof of and people who think religiously believe that someone just saying it happened is good enough for them. im ot saying religious people are nieve but im more of a logical thinker with a lot of curiousity. 

nem360....go read some Maimonides.

nem360, I hope that works out for you in the inevitable end that comes for us all. Faith is only fiction to those who chose not to believe.