Fourth Estate

Disabled veterans memorial has DC groundbreaking

Disabled veterans memorial has DC groundbreaking San Francisco Chronicle Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Celebrating Veterans Day

Celebrating Veterans Day Chicago Tribune Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Outgoing veterans ombudsman prods Canadians over Afghanistan

Outgoing veterans ombudsman prods Canadians over Afghanistan Globe and Mail Take a look at an interesting article we found.

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Today we observe Veterans Day, which was originally known as Armistice Day.

On the 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11th month in 1918, World War 1 was over after four years of brutal conflict, ending what was supposed to be the "War to end all Wars."

Unfortunately, it wasn't.

In 1954, to honor all the vets of all American wars, living or dead, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, with the help of Congress, changed the name to Veterans Day.

But I'm sure veterans wouldn't mind sharing the spotlight with today's servicemen and servicewomen.

"America is not at war, the Marine Corps is at war, America is at the mall," a Marine wrote while being deployed in Iraq.

He was not alone.

Blue Star Families, in a recent survey to determine the major issues facing military households, found that 92% of military family respondents said they felt the general public doesn’t understand or appreciate the sacrifices made by service members and their families.

A little known fact, not exactly broadcast, is that the number of soldiers forced to leave the Army solely because of mental disorders has increased by 64 percent from 2004 to 2009.

For the first time in 15 years, mental health disorders caused more hospitalization than any other medical condition, including battle wounds.

At exactly 11 a.m. EST, a color guard, made up of members from each of the military branches, will honor America's war dead during a ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknowns in Arlington National Cemetery.

It is truly a Day to Remember.

But every day is a day to remember that our troops and their families deserve all the support we can give them.

Words are fine, but they're just words.

It used to be you could wrap a care package and mail it to "Any Service Member" for the holidays, but with increased mail restrictions, that's impossible today.

You can help through financial contributions, letter-writing and email, purchasing authorized pre-made care packages and contributing in any number of ways.

We care.

It's important to show it.

J. Peterman


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84 Members’ Opinions
November 11, 2010 12:06 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls, please stand at attention,and place your hand over your heart,recite the Pledge of Allegiance....and then take a moment of silence for all that have given their all for you

November 11, 2010 12:09 AM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Done and done. Thank you Veterans all for your service.

November 11, 2010 12:13 AM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Hey Bert! Virtual buddy and pal, I hope you caught my response to your post concerning my bobble headed nature. It's a good thing you have virtual friends!

November 11, 2010 3:24 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

"People Sleep Peaceably in Their Beds at Night, Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready To Do Violence On Their Behalf ..."   Eric Arthur Blair
How dare we Question the methods of those who Protect and Preserve OUR Freedoms, at horrific Risk to themselves, never shirking, and precluding the possibility that such wars as be might have to be fought in our own front yards, pastures, and streets ???
Let us be Thankful to God ... that Veterans have always stepped-up ... Let us ask God to keep them all from harm, and continue to give them Victory in all their efforts ....... And if the Weak Sisters and all others devoid of Beitzhem don't like the way it is being done, let them get THEIR hairless little asses into the War Zones and do it themselves ... Regardless of any thing ... Let no one say an untoward word TO or ABOUT a Veteran ... God Bless 'em

November 11, 2010 4:13 AM
29471 10photoviewsFirst-comFirst-photo recneps said...

My Grandfather was in WWII, Korea, and Veit Nam as a Gunner.  He will always be my #1 hero.  My father did 3 tours in Viet Nam for the Navy, then joined the National Guard, spending almost 30 years fighting for this country and it's rights.  My brother has been in, and is still, protecting for 19 years, doing four tours in Iraq/Afghanistan.  I, myself, was a Leatherneck, only giving my 4 years and going on to bigger and better things....... But now I think to myself........ Is there anything better?????????

November 11, 2010 5:06 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

I'm off out to help an old man get washed, shaved & dressed, then I will accompany him to our village war memorial. The names of lads who lived in the cottage I now occupy are engraved there. "Just" infantarymen. God, what a job! Thanks, Boyos, for fighting to keep my home peaceful. Both my Grandpas & my Dad did their bit in the wars. They never spoke about it. Back later,after I've been to pay my respects.

more on the honor roll
November 11, 2010 5:44 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

My older brother served in the U. S. Army in the Pacific during World War II and then was stationed in occupied Japan.

He is in failing health, which is attributable to his military service, but yesterday he said he felt well enough to venture out for a while – which is not always the case -- and so I picked him up and took him to breakfast.

I talked with him about his military service, from the time he volunteered as a 6 foot 3, 145 pound kid until he came home as a man.

We talked for hours. I took copious notes. I am at work writing them up and plan to share them with other family members.

Like many others from that Greatest Generation, he has never talked much about his service to his country.

To my knowledge, yesterday was the most he had talked about his military service to anyone.

I drove him home, verbally saluted him for that service.

I mentioned that today is
Veterans Day. He said he was not aware of it. He thanked me for reminding him.

I shall call him today in honor of his service.

And I shall cherish always those notes and the hours I spent with him on the day before Veterans Day.

November 11, 2010 6:01 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

RY, HAZEL, IVAN, LOTLOT, & RECNEPS.................wonderful, beautiful posts. I will be lifting up the men in my life who have served honorably & with dignity.


November 11, 2010 6:07 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said... have responded aggressively & inappropriately when AURI, I, & BERT have said things. You fly off the wall. Yesterday you said you "instructed" your wife to not purchase any Martha Stewart items. Strange choice of words, "Instruct"................You seem quite angry and aggressive.
BERT is a big boy and certainly does not need me to protect him.........he & I have had a few go rounds, but he always comes out in the end as a gentleman, as do all the stand up men on this site. This is not the appropriate day to keep up the pointless obssession  w/'s Veteran's Day.
I am always leery when someone is so verbally bullying............frankly, it's creepy............

November 11, 2010 7:01 AM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Is Remembrance Day a holiday in your part of the world? It is neither in Singapore nor Australia but there are special services held. There is also the observance of a minute's silence at the 11th hour. The Commonwealth forces in Singapore had fought against the Japanese in WWII. In Australia, Remembrance Day is eclipsed by Anzac Day, a holiday every 25th April to commemorate those who served in the wars.  
I do not have a history of fighting men in my family but I know I am here today because of them. And I am eternally grateful. Singapore is a small nation sitting in a very hot spot. We do not take our security for granted and all males are conscripted at 18 for mandatory national service for two years, just behind Israel and S Korea in the list of countries with the longest military service. Men are then considered to be "operationally ready" and serve a yearly short "re-service" training period until they hit 40 to 50 years of age.

From Eric Bogle's "And the band played Waltzing Matilda"..

And how well I remember that terrible day,

how our blood stained the sand and the water
And of how in that hell that they called Suvla Bay,

we were butchered like lambs at the slaughter.
Johnny Turk he was waiting, he'd primed himself well.

He shower'd us with bullets,
And he rained us with shell.

 And in five minutes flat, he'd blown us all to hell
Nearly blew us right back to Australia.

But the band played Waltzing Matilda,

when we stopped to bury our slain.
We buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs,

then we started all over again.
And those that were left,

well we tried to survive,

in that mad world of blood, death and fire

November 11, 2010 7:04 AM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

How the heck do I keep my verses together? They keep splaying!

November 11, 2010 7:15 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Thank you all.  Please give a listen.. .
Abeacon of strength to the rest of the

Thanks to these men and women who were and those who still are willing to
give their all for their fellow man, their country and an idea...freedom.

November 11, 2010 7:18 AM
Waldo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Those who defend the Constitution with their lives transcend time and place and protect the American ideal. It is of that right stuff of flesh and blood where the words noble and good are realized. No greater love... Thank you Veterans.

November 11, 2010 7:39 AM
Myself 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Spring Fragrance said...

Wow Paolos that was beautiful.
Were the spoken words from a poem specially written for the occassion?

November 11, 2010 8:07 AM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Bebe- so noted. Thanks for you opinion. Handels "intact". As far as creepy goes, I guess we agree on each others creepy level seeing you brought it up. I do, however, receive your message.

November 11, 2010 8:24 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Lynn830 said...

The motto of Vietnam Veterans of America is, "Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another."  When I left the Army in May 1970, having served in Vietnam for a tour, I telephoned the Veterans of Foreign Wars to inquire about membership.  I was informed that Vietnam veterans were not eligible because the Vietnam War was "not a real war."  Of course, VFW soon realized that if they did not have us as members, then VFW would die out and cease to exist.  And they changed their minds.  I did not.  I am a life member of VVA which was formed in 1978, and is open to veterans of the Gulf War, Iraq and Afghanistan.  VVA has been proactive on issues like Agent Orange and POWs who were not returned.  I have had two friends die from Agent Orange; originally the Veterans Administration refused claims based on Agent Orange exposure.
Today let me suggest a time of prayer of support for those who serve and gratitude for those who have served and are serving.  Then, go thank a veteran.  Among Vietnam veterans, a common greeting is, "Welcome Home," because we were not welcomed when we came home.
Jalopkin, we question the methods of those who fight when they violate the Geneva Conventions.  Responsibility for maintaining the rules for the Geneva Conventions is the responsibility of command authority.  When we maintain the Geneva Conventions, we help in some measure to protect the man or woman in the field from inhumane treatment.  In a sense, the pot may not call the kettle black.  And the responsibility of command authority, under the Yamashita precedent from the trials after WW II, means that the fighter in the field should not be prosecuted, his commanding general should.  Yamashita was hanged for an incident much like My Lai; he was the Japanese CG for the Philippines.  The company commander was not prosecuted.  By that precedent, the culpable figure with My Lai should have been Gen. William Westmoreland, not Lt. Calley.
I would not want to serve in a military that did not insist on folloing the Geneva Conventions.  They were in my training.  Though the other side violated them continuously, I think there were some limits to what the North Vietnamese did because of them.

November 11, 2010 8:28 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

The first and most important thing to do on Veterans' Day is to of course not just thank a veteran, but really appreciate what they've done.  Our freedom and liberties have been preserved at the risk of those men and women losing theirs.  One of the most shameful periods in our history is the treatment that the Viet Nam vets received when they came home......and, in some instances, are still receiving.
The second (since there's a 'first" and I will most assuredly be called on it if there isn't  ;) ), is a follow up on yesterday's topic in a way.  Peace.  We must strive to understand each other, cherish our differences and learn from them.  Learn acceptance.  We must understand that our country is but a microcosm of the world, not necessarily right all the time and not necessarily wrong, but just people trying their best.

November 11, 2010 8:36 AM
28561 First-com lindamarie said...

Nothing I can say or do is enough to express my gratitude to the men and women who have fought to give me the freedoms I too often take for granted. But I salute ALL of you.  

November 11, 2010 9:17 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

What an honour to get that villager to the war memoial ceremony. Bless him, he'd polished his medals & buttons and his boot (he only needs one since he war) I got a masterclass in how to iron a razor sharp crease into trousers, which involved a bar of soap and a sheet of brown parcel paper. He looked really handsome & dignified. It was very moving to see our local teenagers lay a wreath for a lad from the village, their friend, schoolmate etc. who died in Afghanistan.
Ivan, us "weak sisters" spend our time breaking up childish squabbles & preventing the outbreak of minor wars. It's called being a Mum. Roll on the day prophesied when swords will be turned into ploughshares. I hate fights. Might ain't always right.
Our friend Ummgawa has a somewhat assertive manner. He does make some excellent, thought-provoking points. Bebe was brave enough to mention the bullying tone - something that I find distressing. My hackles rose at the "I instucted my wife ...." Ummy, you are welcome to your opinion, but put your brain into gear before engaging your keyboard typing fingers.

November 11, 2010 9:36 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

haze, spoken like a true Mum.

Conclusion: More acts of Mums, fewer acts of wars.

November 11, 2010 10:07 AM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

OK, "Instructed" is a bad word used to describe a situation that my wife and I agreed upon. It is even disrespectful to use wife and instructed in the same sentence. I am not the wordsmith I once thought I used to be, tending to be more of a 'cut to the chase' kinda fellow, live and let live. I am not what some might think I am. I will defend your right to your opinion, however, verbal hign knee lifts to the groin are things I will not stand for nor tolerate regardless of whose leg the knee is attached to. I do not pretend to want everyone here to agree with me or my opinions, to do so would be an insult to us all.
I do know this, if you decide to get yourself involved in a pinecone battle, don't throw rocks. If you do, don't complain when someone else throws rocks back, then whine about this being a pinecone battle. (By the way, pinecones are the prickly seed holding device usually populating the ground in fall in the south, and sting when hurled in the direction of another. As kids we'd divvy up and battle away).
Hazel- I have the utmost respect for you my dear, and I apologise for the lifting of your hackles at my expense. Please know that my phrasing was not intended to insult the graceful and kind nature of my bride. We agreed on the Martha Stewart issue and mine was more a a declariation of agreed fact rather than a burning of a cross. I am learning that one must chose every word carefully in this village if one is to be a resident for very long, at least a welcome one. Brain in Drive, let's roll.
For those of you that sent notes, thank you for your kind words.  

November 11, 2010 10:10 AM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

I have got to say also, Veterans, you are in my thoughts and prayers today, thank you for your service to my family and this country.

November 11, 2010 10:23 AM
2452 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 Kristina said...

The mall reference in the article is where my head's been at in the current batch of wars and "military actions."

The all-volunteer army is a good thing, I think. But it does remove the element of sacrifice from the general population. The kids who are signing up are doing it of their own free will. We mothers are not being required to send our sons and daughters into the fray, we're not even being asked. There seem to be enough volunteers.

All of which creates distance between the war and the "rest of us." We're paying someone else to do our dirty work. And war can only be regarded as dirty work. The last resort, when all else has failed. Perhaps we are so willing to send those professionals in because, after all, that's what they are trained to do.

I have many friends in the military. I was once a military spouse. I have family members who served in WWII, Vietnam, and Iraq (and continue to do so). I honor and admire their sacrifice.

But older I get, the less value I see to sending our children, parents, siblings, friends off to kill and die.

I honor the past, but pray that somehow that past will offer us a better future.

November 11, 2010 10:28 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Ummgawa~ Isn't it great that the Good Book says we are all loved & forgiven people. Bargain!

November 11, 2010 10:31 AM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Hazel- and so many other nice things too.

November 11, 2010 10:33 AM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Spring Fragrance, "Waltzing Matilda" played in the context of the disaster created by incompetence in leadership of the British & Australian soldiers at Galipoli always puts tears in my eyes. There are several YouTube music videos that combine photographs with various artists' versions of the song used that way, but I suggest you don't watch if you're already having a stressful day. There's a continuing legal education seminar on 19 November 201O, and one of their presentations is "vicarious PTSD of caring care providers (lawyers in Veteran's Court, medical, psychiatric personnel), and I'm front row center. Perhaps it's better to "care too much" than it is to maintain a 24/7/365 state of apathy. Found my "United We Stand" flag, bearing the image of the Statue of Liberty, and put it where I otherwise post the battle flag for my alma mater. Hope we can come together as a nation with meaningful dialogue on a few issues that were so important to the founding fathers & their families. The tone of the last election {a bipartisan comment} argues to the contrary, but I'm still a believer in America. It's not just for jobs that people all over the planet covet our citizenship. I would like to expand the "thank you for your service" theme to include those who will always remain under the radar, yet who also are critical to our vigilence.
Thanks as well to John Peterman, his theme composition is subdued, well-reasoned, yet outstanding.
.....Thank you for your service, Uncle Arthur. Thank you for your service, and rest peacefully, Uncle George & Cousin Steve.

November 11, 2010 10:35 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

A special USO car may be added to thesepia train later this evening. Feel free to join in the sing-a-longs.

November 11, 2010 10:50 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Spring Fragrance~ Wales is sheep country. For generations, teams of Aussie sheep shearers have come over to help us & teams of Welshmen have gone over to shear Aussie sheep. The sacrifice of Australian troops is not forgotten by the Welsh farming community. A lot of their daughters married a handsome sheep shearer, so the links are still strong.

November 11, 2010 11:00 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

My first wrong thought,after reading that,Hazel, was of the men marrying sheep.....too many welly jokes....

November 11, 2010 11:00 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

kristina~ amen.
Haha ha! It is very windy today & I just saw a crow flying over my bit of sky do a backwards flip 'cos he got his aerodynamics wrong.

November 11, 2010 11:21 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Road Yacht~ You are a Bad Lad! They do sell some stout wellies at our local farmers store. I don't like to ask about the extra wide leg bits. This time of year, there are funny mushrooms growing on the fields & the sheep are crazy. Does'nt do them any harm, but amusing to watch.

November 11, 2010 11:45 AM
Waldo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Northern Minnesota is beautiful on a crisp November day. Fun to drive on County Roads. Served Chili in the hotel lobby last night. Love perks. Isn't it fun to shop for travel deals?

November 11, 2010 12:46 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

I knew that the Post Office would be closed for Veterans Day but I had some letters to mail so I stopped and took them inside.

A woman was there, sorting through the mail she had taken from her P.O. box.

She greeted me by asking:

"Are you a veteran?"

i told her I had served in the U.S. Navy during peacetime.

She smiled and said:

"Thank You."

I smiled too.

Made my day.

Funny what those two little -- but powerful -- words can do.

November 11, 2010 2:05 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 lotlot said...

RoadYacht, I have received notices that you have sent me two private messages.

I have never been able to open and read private messages. I have tried all suggestions, including those from Peterman's Eye. Nothing works.

Sorry I an not able to read them.

But thank you for sending them.

November 11, 2010 2:18 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

IVAN..... I'm very pleased that you caught the intended humor of yesterday's post.  Although I must admit that I do find that repetive physical labor, be it exercise, shoveling snow, or raking leaves.... it often leads me down a path of woolgathering and calm.  But when I wrote 'raking my inner leaf' I definitely had a 'it eating grin on my face.

November 11, 2010 2:37 PM
Waldo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Now as I sit in the presence of a vintage Chris Craft I order up a batch of Walleye, a truly wonderful fish delight and the microbrew is a Summit Winter Ale. Fried is good.

November 11, 2010 2:38 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

We have all benefited from the dedication, sacrifices, and courageous actions of those 'doers' who have served our country and protected our freedom. It is a debt that cannot ever be fully repaid...... but that should never stop our country, and all of us, from doing our best to honor and be of service to them and their families now.. in any way that we can. Remembering them and expressing our gratitude is a start....

November 11, 2010 3:01 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

My wife and I just got back from a trip to San Fransisco ehrer we celebrated our 45th anniverisary. We think it might just work out.
Today in looking at some old pictures there was one of me on the ship going to Korea,this was when the world was flat, at least I think it was me. Good lord could I have ever looked so young? On ocassion we will take part in veterans day activities but so often so many disturbing memories come forth when talking to other vets I just usually stay home as I'm doing today.Even my wife and children know little about my service time other than they konw the unit in which I served and some ,but very little,about the shooting part in which I was engaged and I plan to keep it that way

November 11, 2010 3:15 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

LYNN:  My Respects To You Sir, and as a Fellow Veteran, I Thank You and Salute you for your sacrifice ...  I would love to get into it with you over this issue, because we differ greatly in our Positions and Reasoning ... And while I respect your Right to Think, Feel, and Be  One-Eighty Out from me, without diminishing one iota of the Friendship I have for you ... I have to say that, Thirty-One years of being at War have taught me some Basic Realities and Truths ... One of which is that The Geneva Convention that most everybody, particularly Non-Combatants, like to whine and spew about ... is one of the Biggest and most ludicrous Lies ever invented ... Nobody really pays any attenton to it, longer than however long it takes for the Inspectors to show up, nose around acting Officiously, and leave ... Then everything is returned to the same drek that it was before they showed up ...  Sherman paid no attention to and had total disregard for the Articles of War that were agreed to and Signed in Promise, by the Leaders of both sides, before the War between the States ... NO body in Southeast Asia gave a damn about the Genva Convention, or even Common Decency expected among Human Beings ... War is Hell ... War is WAR ... All is Fair in Love and War, and if it is not approached with that attitude, the naive will have their Names read out loud at Arlington, next Veterans' Day ....... Ever notice, we've never had a General named, PollyAnna ???  Must be some reason for that ... Ya THINK ??? In War, Lynn ... Winning  IS  everything ... The only way to STOP an agressor is to kill more of his Troops than he kills of ours ... and when the start passing out weapons to women, children and the Elderly, then it is time to back all the U.S. Troops out, and melt the entire place ... As the Meskins say, Lynn ... S O C K S !!!   Thats just the way it is, and no amount of nutless sniveling, whining, or Bogus indignation is ever going to change it ... If FirePower is not working for you, then you're not using enough .......
PETERLAKE:  Monumentally  Funny !!!!!!!  One of those things that comes along once in a Lifetime ... Like something from Henny Youngman on Second Avenue, in the 30's, but every bit worthy of the aforementioned Two .......

November 11, 2010 3:16 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

rwh1.... Congrats on the Forty-fifth and thank you for your service.  My oldest brother served and fought in Korea too.
 IVAN, JaxZ and all of the others here at the Eye who have served .... I do sincerely salute you.

November 11, 2010 4:07 PM
Waldo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Now I have switched to a Pale Ale but I sense a legitimate discourse here. Go at it boys. My view is Nation building is not a good use of military resources. War is a last resort but when chosen I want the biggest baddest SOB's in my corner. Patton never cared much for political generals. The warriors will always be swept under the rug once the smoke has cleared. Unfortunate but true. I think it is a guilt thing from a cultural perspective- from the airport lounge office

November 11, 2010 4:27 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Lynn830 said...

My dear Jalopkin, when we do anything to win, I suggest we lose our humanity and our moral high ground.  We become animals.  We then stand beside the British and their stupidity at Amritsar and other places.  And if we go far enough, we wind up standing beside the monsters of World War II.  Expediency in so many areas leads to nothing.  Torture does not yield good intelligence, as the Major who taught me interrogation said, it only yeilds what the prisoner thinks you want to hear.  Savaging civilians makes hatred permanent.  During war, all sorts of things happen that we later wish had not, but we don't make momentary excesses policy.  POWs taken during the Battle of the Bulge were frequently shot -- there was no way to hold or guard prisoners.  War is one of the leasthumane of human activities.  Adolf Hitler preached expediency; I choose not to join him.

November 11, 2010 5:10 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Lynn, you have the grace of an elephant.  Have you heard?  The elitist class is on the way out. But thanks for clueing me in:  I didn't know our Brit allies were stupid, until now.

November 11, 2010 5:13 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

I second PL's salute to the brave veterans on the Eye.....I will tell you flat out that you are brave beyond what I could personally see myself doing...........I am afraid that I lack the courage and guts to serve in the armed forces & yes I am ashamed of that, but it is the truth.

LYNN.......I had no idea until I read your post that Vietnam vets were not welcome into the VFW.......that really shocks me and is so sad.

IVAN & LYNN....I feel honoured to read your posts to each is an education and I owe you both a big thank you for your service. Many men on both sides of my family; going back to the Revolutionary War, served our country and I am deeply proud of them. school district was too busy taking another endless test to salute our veterans or hold an assembly............just a huge fail. While the county where we live had several celebrations and recognitions of veterans................

November 11, 2010 5:48 PM
Waldo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Bebe-just saw the Waiting for Superman doc film- makes ya think.

November 11, 2010 6:03 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

To all veterans, peace.

For sale sign up in the yard.

November 11, 2010 6:05 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

I cannot let this day pass without personally thanking all of you for your service to your ciountry. I refer to those who actively served in the armed forces AND those who by whatever circumstance stood on the sidelines and supported with word, resources and deeds. It has seemed to me that as awful as war itself is, the wives, mothers, children and yes, husbands left behind bear hardship as great.
War is sometimes necessary and it seems to me that we must glorify the warriors we send in harms way but there is nothing glorious about war itself. It is the measure of our inability to get along. Unfortunately I don't see a time when we will do better than we have done throughout history.
You just can't let anybody s**t on you, ya know what I mean?

November 11, 2010 6:21 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

I agree with you George Hall.  Your last line:  I hope our country's leader.s are coming to realize this.  Like it or not, we have to be considered a force to be reckoned with, and dangerous.  We've been kissing arse for way too long.  Well said, sir.  And not at all incidentally: thank you for your service.

November 11, 2010 6:24 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Jalopkin: another great last line in your comment.  You're too intelligent for you own good, I sometimes think, but then I think again, and am so grateful that you are all the things that you are.  p.

November 11, 2010 6:56 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Of course you, my friends, know I’m a veteran, married to a veteran. We pledged to defend Our Country from threats foreign and domestic. I'm too old and the hitch in my git-a-long keeps me from my prior form of service. But the Spirit that prompts men and women to serve is, and I believe should be, alive in all areas, not just the armed services. And not just in defense of our own country but all Humankind that cannot defend itself.

There are exceptions in any example, but I personally have never met a serviceman or servicewoman who delighted in war. Who savors war less than those in a frontline, far from home and loved ones? This morning my daughter quoted G.K. Chesterton to me: “Courage is almost a contradiction in terms. It means a strong desire to live taking the form of readiness to die.”

I believe my convictions are meaningless without meaningful action. Talk can be cheap, but life never is. So I’ll continue to fight where I see injustice. I won’t be toting a gun on my current battlefield, but my enemies will, as well as machetes, knives, clubs, etc. If I fall in the field I’ll have the knowledge that my sense of self-preservation did not carry into watching literally millions of people (approximately 20 million of them children), die not of famine or natural disaster, but for lack of people willing to speak up and take a stand against evil.

I’ve stood in front of the memorial that says “Never Again”. And I’ve stood in front of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. I know where I stand.

November 11, 2010 6:59 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

TT.........I really want to see that has polarized people who find it brilliant & others who seem to see it as a shallow bid for tears. It is a reality......... All I know is that single, teenage mothers will be the death of this country...........they are part of the straining of educational resources that are just killing us. By the time I finish dealing w/ emotional & parenting problems there is very little time left for teaching; which special education students are in desperate need of. Sorry, you made me go nuts...................this whole craziness of "everyone should go to college", is also a farce & has certainly dumbed down a college degree. It seems like educators are forbidden to talk about real issues and expected to perform miracles on the order of Jesus walking on's not possible...........what did your wife think of it?

November 11, 2010 7:02 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

UMMGAWA...........I am so sorry regarding your last post about putting the for sale sign up. I will keep your family in my thoughts & hope that something happens that can reverse that and allow you to keep your home. I cannot imagine the stress of going thru something like that.............................

November 11, 2010 7:08 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

JAX..............kisses & a huge hug! Thank you..........

November 11, 2010 7:10 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Humongus hugs to you too!! (And I'd protect you for free anytime. If I can't whack'em with my cane I'll gum'em to death.. ;)

November 11, 2010 7:13 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

JAX...........Big heart back......I feel safer already.........a PARK wink..........!!!!!

November 11, 2010 7:17 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

It's not my home that's up for sale....

November 11, 2010 7:17 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Ya know Park, whenever I see your name here I think about how we kids all squabbled over Park Place in Monopoly because it was the best. :D

November 11, 2010 7:18 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

But, thanks anywho.

November 11, 2010 7:19 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Well MINE is, anybody want a gorgeous 1848 American Gothic with 4 fireplaces, 5 bedrooms....well I'll give you the details if you're interested, and all the Lobstah you can eat when you come up to look. {{wicked good grin}}

November 11, 2010 7:27 PM
Atticus_1 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Bert said...

Spring  Fragrance:   Just  rolling  in  the  door,  speed  reading  caused  me  to  notice  your  inquiry.  I  can  tell  you  that  Canada  celebrates  Remembrance  Day  today.  Saw  some  BBC  footage  shot  in  Toronto.....

November 11, 2010 7:35 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

JAX.........I plaqn to visit your house just so I can get some free name will be "Ima Leach".............bwaaaaaaaaahahahaha...................... Where are you going?

November 11, 2010 7:35 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

no Q...........

November 11, 2010 7:45 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Beebs I've got the best room reserved for you! And your name is "Ima Love".

We're not leaving our village, but the house is huge and needs a growing family (or a B&B) in it. We've waved goodbye to our last "orphan" and we're both away much of the time so it's time for a drastic downsize. It's a stunning house (we moved from Los Angeles for it on a whim 10 years ago and never regretted it) and we hope to find someone who loves it as much as we have.

November 11, 2010 7:50 PM
5211 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Dancingkatz said...

Today I attended a Veterans Day event at the National Museum of the United States Air Force. The keynote speaker was George W. Bush and the Air Force Band of Flight performed a wonderful concert before his talk. It was a thought-provoking and touching ceremony, attended by about 1200 people, mostly veterans and active duty military. Whoops in line to go through security along with my twin (who is retired chief petty officer) I got to talk to veterans of every war from WWIi to the current conflicts in Iraq and Afganhistan. I gave and received thanks for serving. And President Bush talked about the veterans he met during his 8 years in the White House and they are the source of the strength of our nation. He also told an amusing story about walking his dog on the first day back in Texas and realizing that he was "free at last". That got a chuckle from everyone.

Afterwards, I went and ate with my twin and another veteran friend who had been injured in both the First Gulf War and more recently in Iraq. We remembered and told stories and raised thanks and prayers.

It's been a most memorable Veterans Day.

And if you can, try to hear the Air Force Band perform the the Anthem "Bell of Freedom". If that doesn't move you to proud tears, I'd be very surprised.

Thank you, veterans all. I am proud to have served with and in the footsteps of such great men and women. God bless you.

November 11, 2010 7:54 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

DK what a perfect way to spend the day! Thank you and your sweet sister for your service!

November 11, 2010 7:58 PM
Waldo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

bebe- I come close to blows at cocktail parties over this. If a person has plumbing skills or mechanics skills they needn't go to college for a piece of paper. There are tons of educated folks with Masters degrees out of work. Artisians used to be honored. Brick masons are artists. The paper chase is a paper waste. I choose to learn by reading not by hearing someone else's institutional opinion and most of my medical care is by good nurses. My wife is a great teacher because she gives a C and says it's okay. Your child will probably own the company the other geniuses work for. He or she has charisma and is HAPPY.

November 11, 2010 8:04 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Bravo TT.

November 11, 2010 8:05 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Jax: That's funny, I never thought of that, but it's got nothing to do with Park Place...park place was good though wasn't it?  Lots and lots of hotels on PP meant lots of $$.  I miss that game.  We used to have a couple of them -- and then we moved.  If we still do they're still where I told the movers to put everything:  "Oh, just put it in the basement."  I regretted that when they left, LOL.  Bebe:  You are one smart lady, Everything you write makes so much sense, such good straight talking common sense, and I admire that.  Your honesty is part of your charm.  Along with your amish-ness, of course.;)  And anyone who's interested:  It's Ava Gardner night on TCM, beginning with "Mogambo" and I believe "The Barefoot Contessa" follows.  "Mogambo" also gives us a goreous blonde, Grace Kelly, to set off Garner's dark good looks.  And Clark Gable takes advantage of both of them so to speak, although both of them are willing, so I don't suppose that's an applicable phrase.  How about Clark enjoys both Grace and Ava in Africa...and vice verse. Enjoy your evening, Village. 

November 11, 2010 8:05 PM
Waldo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Tommy Typical said...

Pet Sounds and Pretzel Logic interspersed with Warren Zevon on the iPod makes traveling a plez. If only I had the album covers to peruse. Could we put all future terrorists on planes about to be taken out of service and let them blow themselves up over the Atlantic in unison?

November 11, 2010 8:06 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

I love strong women...probably learned it from my mother who lived to see 99...the stongest, gentlest woman I know.

November 11, 2010 8:31 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

George, I wish she was here so we could tell her one more time what a good job she did raising you.

November 11, 2010 8:39 PM
Bisa-avatar 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 JaxZ said...

Proof that even battle-hardened veterans have a sense of humor....

November 11, 2010 8:47 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

DK.............Thank you for your service, you had a most memorable day. The day you asked what to do on New years I made a post to you w/ some suggestions. PAOLOS suggested I call George C..............I am still waiting for him to get back to me............he just seems like he would rule on the dance floor!
PARK..........thank you, that means a lot!!!!! Seriously......when I get finished churning the butter I will light up my PARK has vanilla tealights baby!
I think Ava Gardner was the bees knees beauty wise. I love Grace Kelly & would have arguments w/ my father who found her too ice- princessy............he was a Judy Garland man............... are on the money! Artisans are just be able to complete things of beauty and usefulness trumps a degree any's criminal that tech schools have fallen by the wayside. Your wife has amazingly understanding parents..........the parent/grandparent (s) of my special needs kids are ticked that their kids aren't straight A students............I am even more stunned that they are is just one giant circle jerk of testing & no actual learning & joy. And tell your wife she is, just sheer joy cannot be beat when you are a child...............

November 11, 2010 8:49 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

I second that, Jax.  Strongest and gentlest...George, I bet she was special to know. ;)

November 11, 2010 9:12 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

Having spent time thinking, talking and writing about veterans, many of them dead, the points of interest that have stuck with me are two: many who served with distinction in leadership positions wanted no more of that in their private, civilian lives.
A former major could be found turning brake drums at the axle plant, a captain across the river doing repetitive joinery at Dearborn Furniture.
Then, many PFCs and corporals wound up as postmasters and police chiefs, principals and pastors.
An old man who often trounced me at penny-a-peg cribbage at Chuck & Mickey's across from the King Veteran's Home told of spending thirty years at a Kimberly Clark Mill working for men who had served under, often way under, him during the war.
There was no bitterness or irony about it. Those men knew when and whom to follow in and out of service and did it well.
There must be a lesson there.

Tommy ~
Summit... good stuff.

November 11, 2010 9:43 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

Beautiful post STONEY..................
GEORGE.........I gotta third those lovely gals JAX & PARK.............
Goodnight all.........sweet dreams...............

November 11, 2010 10:04 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Tommy - I so agree with you. 
My husband is an attorney because his mother decreed that her children will be doctors or lawyers; end of story.   Her three sons are lawyers and they all claim to hate it.  So our children were given choices......we wanted them to do what they love, earn a living and be a contributing member of society.  And so, one of our children is a respiratory therapist, one a carpenter, one a doctor and one an accountant.  The carpenter, our son, always loved working with his hands, went through the carpenter's union program for four years and it's been what he loves. 
I've argued with so many who have pushed their children through college, what I call "buying them that diploma" to only have unemployed children who are miserable.  College is no measure of intelligence and, especially these days, people who can repair things are much in
Bebe -- no, not everyone should or can go to college.  A friend of mine, the mother of three doctors, has a grandson who really finds school difficult.  But he loves to fish and knows all about it.  Their attitude is that the college fund will be put towards a good sporting goods store focusing on fishing.  I applaud that attitude and, we did the same with our kids. 

November 11, 2010 10:19 PM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

George, sounds just like my sweet, gentle, kind, strong grandmother. I really miss her.

November 11, 2010 10:37 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Speaking of the aspirations of children & parents, one of our family games on long car journeys was "I wanted to be a ........... BUT ............
eg I wanted to be a baker, but I hadn't got the dough
     I wanted to be a watchmaker but I didn't have the time
I think one of the best came from my son's 6 year old friend who had never played this game before. After a few minutes listening he piped up "I wanted to be a goatherd, butt. Well done, that boy. He grew up to become an English teacher & tells me that his family play I wanted to be ...But... on long car journeys. So my peace-keeping strategies live on.

November 12, 2010 1:14 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

PARK4:  Thank You Miss P, for noticing, and for your kind words ... If it is a Las Line just above, I must confess that it is not Original with me ... I just heard it from a CWOGUNS many moons ago, and it made sense to me ... A demarcation of one of the rare times when Quantity is preferable to Quality, for the sheer devastation of it all ....... One of the most awesome sights in the world is a Broadside fired from The Mighty Mo ... I've got a Shot of that somewhere ... I'll put it up .......

November 12, 2010 1:33 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

BEBE:  Like a lotta other guys, I was smitten with Ava Gardner too ... Kelly was OK, but I have never been a Blonde Fan ... BUT, I was crazy about Judy Garland from the first time I saw her ... Big Eyes and a killer smile, and the most Flawless voice, that any Opratic Diva would would be envious of ... Even during her heinous bouts with different Substances, aggravated by her discovery that her husband actually preferred Boys, he performances were Dynamite !!!  Even when she got older and chunked out, that killer smile never changed ... Neither did that voice .......

November 12, 2010 1:43 AM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...


November 12, 2010 7:01 AM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

Something I had forgotten to mention about the coffee shop veterans: more than once, somebody sought to curry favor with them by denigrating a man who had been unable or unwilling to serve and found that they rose in defense of their friends and neighbors who had stayed home. I loved that about those guys the last of whom was shown across in September.

November 12, 2010 8:28 AM
28961 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 Ummgawa said...

Banana Pudding.

Prime Web

Selected Poems for Veterans Day

Selected Poems for Veterans Day Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Remembering Armistice Day

Remembering Armistice Day Take a look at an interesting article we found.

History of Veterans Day

History of Veterans Day Take a look at an interesting article we found.

Honor Roll

I'm off out to help an old man get washed, shaved & dressed, then I will accompany him to our...

-hazel leese

Nov. 11, 2010 5:06 AM

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How should Veterans Day be honored?

  • A moment of silence A moment of silence 18%
  • Saying thanks to a veteran you know Saying thanks to a veteran you know 36%
  • Going to a parade Going to a parade 5%
  • Sending a care package to someone on active duty Sending a care package to someone on active duty 23%
  • You tell us You tell us 18%

Yesterday's Discussion

Is tranquility a virtue? Benjamin Franklin thought so.


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