Honoring Our Fallen Heroes

AND THE ROCKETS RED GLARE, THE  BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR,GAVE PROOF THROUGH THE NIGHT,THAT OUR FLAG WAS STILL THERE,

tHE LANDS OF THE FREE, BY THE LIVES OF THE BRAVE

 
Decoration Day, as it was then known, was kind of a big deal: taking flowers to people and people to flowers, watching the still very excellent parade and winding up at the cemetery where our oldest brother lay.

My brothers, mom and I would be dropped there while dad went to pick up some neighbors and take then to Riverside across the way. They would stop at The Three Oaks for a bit of support and then he would leave them, stop by The Three Oaks for a bit support and come back for us, drop us at home and so on... and on.

Our cemetery was parklike with bronze plaques and no tombstones.

It bugged our dad that we treated it like a park and chased each other around over people's graves. He stopped short of insisting that we stay within the tiny narrow margins between them and our mother, who seldom took him on frontally, solved the problem whimsically saying, to no one in particular, as she lay in the grass above where she now lays beneath it: 

"If you ask me May I stand here?
I would not refuse
I am looking at you heart
Not the bottom of your shoes"

She was made to repeat it every year.

 

Today, it would be good to hunt my booksheves for Seigfried Sassoon & "Woodbine Willie"
"They" said that World War 1 was the war to end all wars - how I wish...
bring on the day when swords will be turned into ploughshares & the lion shall lie down with the lamb.
 

I'd like to thank all of you here who have served in the military and I wish all soldiers, stationed anywhere in harm's way, could return home tomorrow, safe and sound.

Not just soldiers, airmen, sailors, medics, cooks.

Peterman & G.K. Chesterton~ I think we are in the minority of cultures who do not honour our ancestors.

THE LAND OF THE FLEECED AND THE HOME OF THE NAIVE ...
 
I gave it Thirty-One years, and the General Public STILL doesn't know what is really going on .......

Jal~ I was waiting for somebody to lob a grenade in.
There's a whole lot of people making a lot of money, or at least a living, out of war-mongering at the taxpayer's expense. "They" dress it up as "defence" or "peacekeeping" -
I worked in a garrison town for a while & the rowdy, spotty, unemployable youths who had joined the army were not the most popular guys in town. I know they were somebody's son or brother, but that doesn't make them a saint. That is no reason for me to disrespect those who believed, fleeced & naive or not, that they were serving their country. Send me the wool & I'll knit a sinister helicopter with missiles.

I used to play taps for the local funeral director in my hometown for military funerals including WWI vets. Standing on a hill in my scout uniform, alone, it stirred me each time. My dad served in Europe, my uncle was at D-Day, and my father-in-law served on the Saratoga and dodged kamikazes in the Pacific. I protested Vietnam. They all still loved me. I loved them. Now I take a Jungian view of the warrior.  In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order.

Count me among those few who think that those who resolutely resisted the Vietnam War and moved to Canada (I knew a few) were braver than those of us who served in non-combat roles in the military.  I honor those who fought (meaning infantry) and those who walked away.  The rest of us were spectators.... War is a horrible thing.  (In the Air Force I was close enough to see injured and dead coming out of the meatgrinder....).  There should be a national day of vituperation for those who furthered their political careers by sending others to serve in their place and for those who refuse to send their own kids into harm's way.  These opportunists and hypocrites are very, very low life.... 

Once again, I'll offer a film that (I wish) everyone would see (they won't): Richard Attenborough's 1969 film, "Oh What A Lovely War".  Here's one clip (the last four minutes of the film) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrc46ouZz8 ; .  There are dozens more clips from the film on YouTube -- if you dare.....

I  suggest  that  each  of  us,  quietly  but  unashamedly,  thank  someone  for  their  service  today.   We  live  in  a  wonderful  country,  the   great  experiment,  the  land  that  peacefully  transitions  the  reins  of  power  every  four  years,  pursuant  to  a  vote  of  the   people.   The  land  that  welcomes  Tommy  Typical,  Vietnam  era  protester,  with  the  same  open  arms  as  those  who  processed  information  differently,  and  chose  to  serve  in  Southeast  Asia  {like  Doc  Nolan}.   Today  our  challenges  have  only  gotten  bigger,    the  appropriateness  of  our  responses  more  ambiguous.....    Government  has  proven  itself  to   be  highly  unreliable,  disseminating  disinformation  to  motivate  the  citizenry  as  well  as  our  allies  to  engage  in  conflict.    May  we  together  join  hands,  and  pledge  that  truth  bears  no  party  label,   and  affirm  that  the  free  &  open  exchange  of  ideas  is  the  cornerstone  of  liberty.   God  bless  our  little  website,  what  a  wonderful  concept,   talking  with  strangers  that  soon  become  virtual  friends,  agreeing  to  disagree,  and  maybe.....just  maybe......all  benefiting  from  the  process.

I think it was Patton who said what more can you ask of someone than their best.

I just hope more people remember that there is more to today than BBQ, sales, and a day off from work.

I work in a bedroom town that exists to serve a US Air Force base. While I understand the need for the military I still consider myself a pacifist and wish I didn't have to work there. I also don't generally have a lot of respect for anyone I deal with that is less than a staff seargent because I see so much irresponsibility and careless attitude in the younger airmen. For so many of them it all seems to be one big party. Somehow they seem to lose that once they've been through Airman Leadership School on the way to getting their fourth stripe. Part of the problem is that they'll take just about any warm body, which I know is not the case in other countries, and I think we'd be better off if we were competitive about it like they are. Oh yes, that's right, we don't have that luxury because we're at war and need the strength of numbers. I know I sound bitter and I expect I'll tick off a fair number of people. I actually do have respect for the ones that take their work seriously.

I work in a bedroom town that exists to serve a US Air Force base. While I understand the need for the military I still consider myself a pacifist and wish I didn't have to work there. I also don't generally have a lot of respect for anyone I deal with that is less than a staff seargent because I see so much irresponsibility and careless attitude in the younger airmen. For so many of them it all seems to be one big party. Somehow they seem to lose that once they've been through Airman Leadership School on the way to getting their fourth stripe. Part of the problem is that they'll take just about any warm body, which I know is not the case in other countries, and I think we'd be better off if we were competitive about it like they are. Oh yes, that's right, we don't have that luxury because we're at war and need the strength of numbers. I know I sound bitter and I expect I'll tick off a fair number of people. I actually do have respect for the ones that take their work seriously.

Hazel:   It's  disturbing,  but  watch  "Dogs  of  War,"  Nicholas  Cage's  recent  movie.  

 
Every now and again, one of my older brothers brings up the accidental shooting on our block.

On the wide front porch of Army reserve Col. Tobin's place, one boy from out of town, shot another boy from out of town in the forehead with the colonel's gun.

They were visiting him but it could have been any of us. We hung out there and I had once been loaned out to him as a surrogate kid for a father and son banquet.

He just disappeared after that but he was on a short rope anyway having said in a speech essentially: "While we are on our knees thanking God for having survived the  last war, some men are on their toes planning the next one."

Boys were appreciated a little more for a little while and we mostly stopped pointing things at each other and saying: "Bang."

Rapid  Girl:    Your  post  is  insightful.   We  are  currently  spread  so  thin  in  our  worldwide  deployments  that  in  our  attempt  to  do  everything  we  accomplish  nothing.    Furthermore  the  "volunteers"  often  are  merely  those  in  need  of  a  job  with  benefits,  not  necessarily  those  dedicated  to  service  to  country.   Foreign   policy   needs  to  change,   the  corporations  that  benefit  heavily  from  a  big  active  military  need  to  be  disallowed  from  lining  the  pockets  of  our  "representatives,"   who  are  beholden  to  them  to  fund  what  seems  to  be  a  neverending  run  for  reelection,  that  starts  48  hours  after  the  former  election......these  are  bipartisan  comments,  the  disease  infects  everyone.....

My main squeeze was a chopper pilot in Viet Nam...we recently went to an airshow where "his" chopper was on show...his eyes watered up and I had no words of comfort for him.  I couldn't see the "slide show" of his past war experience playing inside his head...I was left speechless.  Hoorah for them all.

Has there ever been a time in Human history without war?  The "Why can't we just get along" question must have been asked by some,even before there was a spoken language. I understand the concept when it involves water; "You, thirsty one, are NOT allowed to drink from this fountain", or food ; "You, Hungry one, must watch us eat,and if there be any left,you can bet we will waste it"...and I get the energy thing,but only because our WAR machines need OIL to run....kind of all makes sense when you see it that way, doesn't it?   If WE don't feed our WAR machines, somebody else may feed theirs, and war on us....Bless those in harms way, for they keep us safe to war more...

Welcome Nodak and give that guy a comfort hug from me, too. 

Nodak:   Huey  pilots  are  the  best  of  the  best,  they  flew  a  lumbering  flying  target,  got  people  in,  got  what  was  left  of  them  out,  their  crews  operating  w/o  regard  for  their  personal  safety.........the  quietest  guy  in  my  office  was  a  MedEvac  pilot  in  SE  Asia,   he's  on my  short  list  of  favorite  people.....hang  onto  that  man  of  yours,  you're  entwined  with  someone  very  special not  just  to  you,  but  to  the  United  States.....

You have all with one exception made such thoughtful
comments and quips that today is the most poignant conversation I have
read. 

Zenvelo – I look to Nimits as a quintessential American
military hero.  Quietly asserting the
proper course of action, under spoken with the ability to recognize the
changing tactics and strategies.  He was
not mired in the past. He understood that the battle was won not by his brilliants
but by the capabilities and courage of his men.

Jalopkin – It is sad that with all the posting of remembrance
and respect on this site today you could not add something to it but were compelled
to throw on graffiti about your attitude concerning this government.

My Dad was a Marine Corp combat veteran of Leyte Gulf, Mindanao, and other places in the Phillipines. He never talked much about it. Toward the end of his life I found out that his unit was scheduled for the first wave in the attack of the Japanese mainland. When I think about he atom bombs that ended the war I have mixed feelings, but I know how I would have voted.

The  Commander  in  Chief  will  be  going  to  Abraham  Lincoln  National  Cemetery  today  to  honor  the  fallen  who  don't  share  Arlington's  spotlight,  but  whose  service  is  no  less  honorable.   Lincoln  is  Obama's  role  model,  both  as  a  lawyer  and  as  a  president,  and  Lincoln  started  the  tradition  of  dedicating  national  cemeteries  for  those  whose  service  should  never  be  forgotten.....

You all said everything so eloquently and so well that I will echo that I agree w/ your heartfelt posts. MICHAEL..... excellent point about the sales, your post has made me decide I really don't need to go to a department store on THIS day! Thank you all......
 
THR....... Why did your last post contain so many spelling errors of common words and this most recent of yours has all the difficult words spelled correctly? You are a nasty little troll and there is something just not right in your continued attacks against IVAN the wonderful. I say you are someone who posts here and can only get attention w/ your sad pseudonym and pathetic posts against IVAN. Jealousy is so absolutely tragic isn't it????????????...........

Having been shot at and missed by enemies of our country and having returned fire ,fatally in some cases,  I found that combat is UGLY, WAR IS UGLY. Despite how it is portraied in movies there is NOTHING GLAMOROUS ABOUT killing your fellow man.

My own Mom and Dad were both United States Marines. I didn't quite know them too well, but I remember them today and I wish them well, where ever they are, in this world or another.

thr~ Mr. Jalopkin put his very life on the line for the right to say what is in his heart.   .   It is heartless of you to cast a stone.   .  Blessed be all who have served,and all who will.

 SEMPER JI

My family isn't to big & I don't seem to have a lot of memebrs that were in the military. Yet as a kid on Memorial Day my parents always took us to visit our Great Uncle Vernon's Grave as he was in WWII and Korea. We never knew him, but he seemed to be the favorite Uncle for my dad & his Brothers.  As mom & dad both grew up in the same small town, both paternal & maternal sides of the family are in cemetaries within miles of each other. My parents used the day to teach my sister & I about our ancestors. We visited all of the Family where they lay & learned where our branch on the family tree is and how it came to be. Then we went see both sets of granparents and listened to their stories of growing up. 
 
Last Sunday we visited where my maternal grandparents lay and the Legion were placing the flags on the service men's graves. My 5yr old nephew was handed the flag by the Legion Lady to put on Grandpa's grave. He put it in the ground & said that looks nice. He then wanted to know Y it was there & what grandpa did in the army. I told him he ran the food (mess) Tent. My mom was surprised I knew that she never did.
 
I find it to be a shame when people have no idea where there kin is buried becuase no one cares to go to the cemetary or take the children to the cemetary to learn about their ancestors. I find great comfort and beauty in many of the places where family & friends lay. It's a shame that there's so many others that can't.
 
 
  
   

rings90~ I did give army cooks an honourable mention earlier. Goodness! What a job!
My Grandpa Dadsdad mended aircfaft in World War 1, with canvas, glue & wire.
Grandpa Mumsdad fought in the Boer War & World War 1
My Dad served in North Africa & Palestine in World War 2
My brother joined the Army briefly, HATED it & managed to get discharged.
 
When my Dad was serving in Egypt, he drove trucks of captured munitions out into the desert & blew them up. One day, he swopped roster with another soldier, who drove the truck over a pothole just outside the munitions compound. The whole lot exploded. That man's name is written in our family Bible & he is remembered. He was just 19 years old, as was my Dad at the time.

and do we lay the responsibility at the feet of ancient China for gunpowder? Or AlfredNobel for TNT? both of those have significant peaceful uses.   The Atomic bomb? Nuclear energy has great peacful uses as well.  Slings and arrows? The ability to eat when we are starving,while grows the grain.  Hurtful words? No good use at all. They start wars and such.

I shall not murder the mankind of her going with a grave truth...After the first death, there is no other, no other, no other...

Bebe,  THR,  Ivan.... let's  try  to  remember  that  we  best  honor  the  fallen  and  their  families  by  remembering  civility,  diversity  of  ideas.    THR  is  new  here,  let's  see  if  there  is  a  learning  curve.   My  friend  Ivan  can  take  care  of  himself.  >>> just  my  thoughts,  I  like  you  all....

Today there are parades, concerts, backyard bbqs, and various other festivities all in the name of "Memorial Day." We are told that these events are not so much celebrations, but rather commerations, in order to remember those very special 1,194,144 men and women that gave their lives in the course of service to their country. There is probably not a man or woman alive in this country today, that does not have some sort of either direct or ancestrial connection with our fallen. Hopefully, in between the hamburgers and the potato salad, we will all take a moment to remember them, and pray that those that are still with us get home safe and sound.

Bert~ Dogs of War- great film
Doc Nolan~ Oh What a Lovely War- Brilliant!
Did you see Saving Private Ryan?
 
RY~ my sharp knives are peacefully employed peeling & chopping vegerables.
 
 
 
 

 VIVA JALOPKIN !

The fireworks that BEBE and I watched were spectacular.
I'm watching all the posts today.
Thanks to all our service men.
All my uncles who were, navy, paratrooper, Air Force, army, and my brother who was in the air force and naval reserve, I thank for their service.
I can live here on Delmarva and watch the planes from Dover AFB break the sound barrier over the ocean and know I'm safe because of the service of all our brave men.

thr - This is a place for the presentation of thoughts, opinions and ideas.

It's a place were opinions are expected to be attacked and defended; but we don't cotton to the idea of attacking the individuals that express them as you are so compelled to do. That is just bad form so why don't you crawl back under your bridge and stop being a sniper on the sidelines.

This day, of all days, we honor and offer our thanks to those who fought to protect this right for us. Our IVAN has served our country in a very noble fashion and I am grateful and respectful of that. I am also honored to counted upon as one of his friends.
  I must remember to simply scroll whenever I see you initials....

BERT... I like you too; what I don't like is your patronizing attitude. My thoughts are civil and yes angry. I have no doubt that IVAN can take care of himself; the point is that one stands up for one's friends; wherever, whenever.
 
As for THR ....... there is no learning curve, there is only jealousy, rudeness and utter tackiness. We have all been given leeway when we have said something that we regret, Lord knows people have given me many breaks when I have opened my mouth and uttered something insanely stupid; so I do understand forgiveness. This person w/ a computer has it out for IVAN and it's most definitely NOT okay w/ me ( & many others by the posts I have read). And this of all days.... Memorial Day..... Not acceptable BERT. I am a lioness regarding my husband and I am a lioness regarding my friends.
 
KORTHAL.... I so enjoyed the fireworks, wine, & food w/ you too!
 
RINGS..... Really lovely post. And you're right.....

HAZEL..... I just saw your post. My grandfather too fixed airplanes in WW1. HIS father ( my great grandfather; came to America from Wales!) Maybe our families knew each other.....

What are the chances?   My maternal grandfather came from Wales, also!! 

What Peter Lake said so well.
 
On this Decoration Day, I'd like to mention my late father, Thomas John "Jack" Bates, who fought in the Pacific during WWII on the aircraft carrier, Yorktown.  The Yorktown is anchored in Charleston Harbor, and it was a bittersweet visit that I took to see the ship that my Dad served on as such a very young man.  Here's to you Daddy: I love you.
 
And to my dear young but not carefree nephew, a newly minted Marine, who has been serving our country for the last several months at Guantanamo, and who will leave for Afghanistan at the end of this year.  I'm so very proud of you Geoff, keep safe dear boy.  Go with God, and my love.
 
And thank you all who have served this country, in war and peace.  You are, each and every one, my heroes.  You have my deepest gratitude.
 
 

PARK$:
Ditto!!
My son served in the army in peace time and I thank him too.

Should be PARK 4.

CAROL..... You're right, what are the chances? Pretty wonderful!
 
PARK..... really, really beautiful tribute. God bless your nephew......

You all have spoken eloquently and from the heart.  In just a moment or two it will be time for our moment of silence where we will all be eloquent in our silence and respect.  

There's some theory about interconnectedness.
Why, today of all days, when the concensus of opinion is that War is not a great idea, are people on this usually friendly site sniping at each other? Given the multifarious topics offered for daily discussion, it's inevitable that we will sometimes disagree. I'm sure we are all grown up enough to do that with a loving heart.
Cymru am byth! (Wales for ever!)
I LOVE to read all your opinions & throw in mine, for what they're worth. The small print under your "What do you think?" box says don't be abusive, and you'll get a fair hearing.
OMG Kermit the Frog has just popped up on my TV screen. That was the other day, wasn't it? I digress.
It also says there's no Big Brother & I wouldn't presume to be a finger-wagging Granny. Today's issue is very emotional for some people, so let's make allowances & hope we get something more light-hearted to discuss tomorrow.

Nice  turnout  for  a  Sunday,   especially  a  Sunday  when  many  are  busy......

"Nodak"  has  apparently  morphed  and  is  now  "JM Ringler,"  by  coincidence  I  revisited  earlier  posts,  the  Ringler  home  page  now  has  the  comment  referencing  a  b/f  who  flew  a  Huey  in  Southeast  Asia........ 

God Bless You All .......

Even when I was Active we celebrated Memorial Day as loudly and vividly as we could, to Honor the sacrifices of all those who made it possible for us to be doing whatever it was we were doing ... I have always been proud of My Dad and all my Uncles who served in WWI and WWII ... and I am rightfully proud of my Military Career as well ... Like those others in my Family and the others who have ever worn a Uniform ... I served with pride, and willingness, and conviction, to defend The Constitution of the United States, the Ideals of the basic fibre of this Country, and the Rights of every Citizen, Citizen that is ... to be Free, and to swing his Fist all he wants, just as long as he stops just before the end of my nose ...

In all my years of Service, I have spent about as much time fighting on Land as I have on a Ship, and I am a Sailor ... I will not deny nor ever forget that much of my time was spent in a rather posh atmosphere with Officers and Dignitaries of all sorts, at the Embassy Level, but just so "thr" might be further able to understand ... some Postings are done to provide a Service Man with a legitimate excuse to be wherever he might be, in order to do whatever job it is he has to do ... After All, it  IS  a Job ... And I might add that, all of us who are Career Men, "Lifers" as they call us ... are NOT uneducated, Boorish Head Strummers who couldn't get or keep a Job in Civilian Life, or Low-Brow, Belligerent Oafs unfit for anything other than fighting ... As such, many of us KNOW when something is wrong, in the philosophy or attitude of those who run the government that we take our Orders from, but with the ultimate goal's being the exhibition of sufficient strength and preparedness, that THIS COUNTRY is not attacked or overrun, we follow Orders ... as we took an Oath to do ... That does NOT mean,  "thr"  ... that we have to like it ... We simply do, whatever is necessary ... to contain whatever evil it is we are opposing, in somebody elses back yard, so that we do not have to fight over here and end up in a shambles like Europe did ... It is people who exhibit the attitude and undeserved sanctimony that you have shown ... who don't really know what is going on, and will never be able to comprehend it, because you are too busy puffing your denial, who are responsible for allowing the cancerous Liberalism that has destroyed this country, to do just that ... I am not so much afraid of The Fourth Reich that has taken control, as I am afraid of the morons who not only allowed it to happen, but HELPED IT !!!   If the majority of the people in this Country knew what is really going on, they would crawl into a hole and pray for the Angel of Death to come and get them ... And, you see ... we are all so loathe to admit that we could have been fooled, so completely ... and for so long ... that most of us would rather remain sold out to our delusions than to take responsibility and embrace the Truth ... "Vanity, Vanity ... All Is Vanity"  and Solomon wasn't kidding ...

I suggest,  "thr"    that you don't throw stones, and that you take time to examine a few things before you fire on somebody again ... Ask yourself, 'Was I There?  How do I KNOW what it is I am talking about? Do I know the Truth, the Facts? '  You see, it is impossible to look at a fellow who just dropped a Bowling Ball on his foot and say to him, 'I Know Just How You Feel'   if you ... have never dropped a Bowling Ball on your own foot, and have any credibility ... I will forgive you, up to this point ... because you really have no idea who I am or what it is you are dealing with ... I will simply continue to exchange ideas and ideals with the Good People of this Forum, with admiration ... and Respect, which your daddy(if you even know who he was) was never able to instill in you ... I will ASK you, at this point ... never to address me, or mention my name again ... Please simulate a scintilla of common decency, and Honor my Request ... Not to do so, will simply prove that my assessment of you as a Mental Midget is correct ... and we can't have that, now can we ...

Two thumbs up, Ivan.
 
And a thank you, and a hug for being you, and being you, here in this place.  You could spend your time anywhere, but you spend it here with us, and we are so much the better for it.
 
I'm so glad I know you, Ivan Jalopkin.
So very glad.
 
ever,
p.

JAL~ How many F***'in eggs do you want in this pudding?

To D‘s father, P‘s nephew, and Ivan "..to Honor the sacrifices of all those who made it possible for us to be doing whatever it was we were doing..."  --Jalopkin

Today it is a walk in the park, where there are no planes overhead carrying bombs... only the occasional passenger airline cruising at the height of Mount Everest.

Tonight, "white plates and cups clean-gleaming, Ringed with blue lines.."

 --Rupert Brooke.

Aw, Penny, you shouldn't have credited him.
 
It sounded just like something you'd write.
 
But you're too smart a person not to credit the author.  One reason why I like you.
 
 
Happy Decoration Day, Penn, and thank you for the mention, above, of my nephew.
 
 

Amen - And thanks to messrs Peterman and Chesterton!

You Easterners are an hour closer to sunset than I.....but does this moment not cry out for----listen, can you not hear it in the distance with its plaintive, haunting melody?---Taps. Gone the sun......God is nigh.....Good night friends.  Good night memories.

Embarassing moment. The first day upon returning home from Korea I got home about 10 am and was sitting in the living room talking to my mother and time went faster than I thought. Like many small towns in those days there was a siren that went off at noon to let everyone know what time it was, and it sounded while we we were talking and automatically I dove on to the floor with my hands on my  head as if I were wearing a helmet.  Some what red faced I commented that at least my reflexes were still good. Mom was very shocked but for years we had our own private joke that at which we could chuckle .

BERT... It's Monday!
 
PARK..... My mother wished us Happy Decoration Day...... I love that.
 
IVAN..... My eyes just exploded w/ red, white, and blue fireworks reading your post. I daresay if we all lived near each other that PARK & I would be conspiring to bring you some flowers & a cake today.........

Hazel:   My  point  exactly!   Misbehavior  if  ignored  tends  to  stop,   it's  attention-seeking  behavior.   Not  to  mention  today  celebrates  freedom,  the  freedom  some  of  us  and  all  of  our  forefathers  fought  for,  the  freedom  to  agree,  the  freedom  to  disagree,  and  the  perspective  to  realize  that  the  intellectual  playing  field  is  lessened   for  all,   should  an  atmosphere  of  conformity  of  ideas  reign  supreme.....

Quite a discussion today. Hope we get more peace-like tomorrow. There's always hope.

As time has gone on, I've become more and more of a pacifist. I understand anger and hurt and injustice. I just don't believe that violence has ever really solved anything. It has stopped things, but not solved the root problem.

Hitler was stopped, but his hatred is still alive.

The American Revolution stopped the British rule, but it was years of intense negotiation between the states that created the nation we know as the UNITED States, not the war.

The American Civil War stopped slavery in fact, but not the hatred and injustice in the soul.

On this day we remember lost lives. Oh, please let's not lose more on the horrible waste called war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjNNMIxQVLo

 
Unrelated to anything...everything: I wonder which was the harder thing, President Eisenhower, a civilian overcoming the custom and habit of a career to initiate or return a salute... or many of those since whose combined military experience did not match his own and some who never served, deciding and learning to do it.

Now, I'm gonna drag the dead horse out of the village square and speak of it... No More.

Bebe:     Way  back  in  1967,   I  was  just  a  kid,   I  drove  to  Montreal.    The  "Cold  War"  wasn't  that  cold,   Americans  were  heavily  committed  in  Vietnam,   and  about  to  get  educated  on  world  wide  television  in  a  few  short  months  about  the  real  strength  of  their  opponents,  in  the  Tet  offensive.  Went  to  Expo  '67,   and  notwithstanding  our  differences,  most  countries  had  exhibitions  there,  showing  off  whatever  the  powers  that  be  thought  was  topical.    Soviets  had  a  booth,  the  hosts were  all  young,   model  citizens  of  the  CCCP,   carefully  screened  for  loyalty,  fluency  in  English,  and  salesmanship  of  the  Communist  way  of  life's  superiority  over  the  decadent  West.    Got  to  hang  with  three  of  them,  just  meals  together.   Bought  a  poster,  silk  screened  in  what  is  now  highly  collectable  government  approved  art.    When  their  handler,  an  older  former  KGB  officer,  decided  that  I  was  merely  flirting  with  the  girls  &  swapping  fishing  stories  with  the  guy,   he  left  us  alone,  confident  that  one  young  man  was  actually  good  for  business,  a  symbol  of  CCCP's  tolerance  of  ideas.   A  week  later,   the  last  day  of  the  exhibition  opened.....minus  three  young  people.    Some  disinformation  messaging  was  cleverly  scattered  around  their  suite  of  rooms  &  workplace.    When  later  asked  what  made  a  difference  in  their  thinking  about  how  they  wanted  to  live,  the  youngsters  didn't  say  "U.S.  has  color  television,   private  automobiles."   They  wanted  to  freely  exchange  ideas  in  a  non-judgmental  atmosphere.   One  caused  a  snicker,   saying   "I  wanted  to  live  in  a  society  where  I   can  cross  international  borders  in  an  amosphere  of  trust.....even  if  it  IS  is  the  trunk  of  a  tourist's  car." 

yyada, yada, yada ....... I know I'm kicking a dead horse but I thought I saw it move again. 

B.F. Skinner would agree with Bert completely. Under the right circumstances, extinction will eventually extinguish the unwanted behavior.

I'm quite certain we understand the adult way to deal with this behavior, especially in regard to children; but when it comes to an adults demonstrating such poor behavior and ill will .... well speaking for myself.... it just plain p:sses me off and I sadly lack the self control to just sit on my hands and remain quite when someone repeatedly verbally attacks one of the village stalwarts and a friend.

Sometimes silence about bad behavior is construed as consent. In this case that is simply not acceptable and such behavior should not be tolerated. I can't save the world but I will stand up for a friend.

Now let's just try to fuhgetaboudit and take a moment of silence in honor of our veterans.... That is time much better spent.

Peace out

Hazel, of course I meant all Armed Services (unified Armed Forces) personnel. Though I'm a pacifist who protested against the Viet Nam War and against the Iraq War before it even started and marched to end that war and to end the war in Afghanistan and continue to go to peace vigils, I have utmost respect for and want all the men and women serving in all branches of the military, in any capacity, to come home safe and sound.
 
 

Bert~ Thanks for that.
It's nearly 1am here, I left my bedroom window open, so there's at least 2 bats flitting round my boudoir & a mob of moths round my bedside lamp.
Goodnight everybody, behave nice on the late night train. It's been a loooong day.

Peter Lake--you are a gentle man.   Hazel: bats!???  I definitely hope  that we are in separate sleeping cars on this train!!!!

 
"I remember when my daddy gave me that gun. He told me that I should never point it at anything in the house. And that he'd rather I'd shoot at tin cans in the backyard, but he said that sooner or later he supposed the temptation to go after birds would be too much, and that I could shoot all the blue jays I wanted, if I could hit 'em, but to remember it was a sin to kill a mockingbird. Well, I reckon because mockingbirds don't do anything but make music for us to enjoy. They don't eat people's gardens, don't nest in the corncrib, they don't do one thing but just sing their hearts out for us."  
 
Harper Lee
To Kill A Mockingbird 

Park4:    That's  just  NOT  fair,   picking  one  of  my  favorite  passages  out  of  my  favorite  booi  &  movie.....now  I'm  like  putty  in  your  hands.......
 
Peter  Lake:   Long  time  since  I  envisioned  the  Skinner  Box,  a  staple  from  Psychology  101.....
 
Kristina:   You  are  wise  beyond  your  years,  my  guess  is  that  your  cosmopolitan  background  gives  you  a  different  perspective,  which  "home  grown"  Americans  may  benefit  from.   There's  such  a  thing  as  being  "too  dumb,"   but  there's  no  such   thing  as  having  too  much  knowledge.....as  long  as  you  take  bite-size  portions,  and  chew  carefully  before  swallowing.....

PARK4..... I sure wish Harper Lee had another book in her.  But if you could only have one, well she sure gave us a great one that will always stand the test of time. Remarkable. How's 'bout we pick up 'g' , open the retractable roof on the club car and drink Long Island Ice Teas out of plain brown paper bags through a straw?   Why..... just 'cos, dat's why.. HUdson john..... everyone's invited for the ride btw....

I'm for that Mr. HUdson John Peter Lake.  Long Island Iced Tea, oh it's been a while...oh the head, get the Alka Seltzer...LOL.  But I'm always along for the ride and the company.
Especially the company.  I'll snag G on my way.
 
If we're interested, I've got my very own copy of the film version of Miss Lee's wonderful novel, and maybe what we need to calm today's wild hearts is the sound of Gregory Peck's Atticus Finch voice calling for his children to come in from the dark Macon streets.  And Miss Dubose. And Miss Maudie.  Calpurnia.  And, of course, Boo Radley.  I'm in the mood for some southern story telling of the best kind tonight...how about you?
 
Ya'll, I mean.
 
 
See ya'll there.  The opening bit with the cigar box and the marbles and Elmer Bernstein's lovely theme music is one of the best parts of the movie, so hurry up!

Peace out y'all. 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqLssKusGzM  ;

Listening to the discussion swirl and eddy, and looking at the photo our host has provided for today, I think about having lived both in the uniform and as the civilian family member recieving the folded flag. I can and want only to speak for myself, but I have and will fight for your right to do the same.

Whether we give in public service of any kind, or self service, my most cherished freedom is in my right to give myself, to and for what I believe in. It's one of our commonalities. We each get to choose. That's what made my personal choices meaningful to me. I'm grateful to have been allowed to make them.

Goodnight,  all.   Gotta  put  the  16  year  old  to  bed.   The  biggest  lesson  of  "Mockingbird"  is  that  parents  need  to  teach  their  children  not  just  lessons,  but  values,  and  do  so  by  example.  All  the  lawyering  stuff  is  nice  as  well,  but  I  wanna  raise  "Scout"  to  marry  a  man  her  haddy  would  be  proud  of.....

I wander away and y'all start talking about one of my yearly-reads? Phooey!

It's just past midnight where I live, so Memorial Day/Decoration Day is over here. Because my husband had to work, I was home with the kids, and took them out to pick strawberries to put up in jam in our pantry for the next year. We took along a friend from church, who was born in Russia back before the Soviet Union fell. It occurred to me that back when she and I were children, we had been taught that the other was an enemy. Who would have thought back then that things would have changed so much that five years ago, she was able to emigrate to the United States openly, and not secretly defect, in order to live in a land of freedom and liberty, worship freely at our church and to become my friend? Yes, our country has it problems, and there are many things going on now that aren't good whether we are Americans or of other nationalities. But despite those problems, liberty always has been worth fighting for. So today, I did think of those who have chosen to offer up their lives in defense of the freedoms which we prize so highly. I did my duty in the Persian Gulf with my supply unit; making sure that the medical supplies got to where they were needed, and that people and mail got back and forth, connecting the AOR with back home. I don't feel that I did all that much in the bigger scheme of things, not compared to an actual combat veteran, but I grew to appreciate those who went under fire; both those who came home carrying their duffle bags, and those who came home carried beneath the flag of the nation they served.

I feel that by doing the ordinary things of my day; picking strawberries, making my kids clean their rooms, etc., I am honoring those men and women who lay to rest beneath the grass of innumerable cemeteries with bright flags flying by their tombstones. They died so that we can have the life we live without fear. The best thing to do is to remember them in our hearts, and to live our lives to the very best of our abilities, thanking them for giving us the opportunity to do so.

Thank you, all who gave and all those who put their lives on the line... I remember. I always will.

all gave some, some gave all.  WE live in the Lands of the free, because of the lives of the brave,,,

HAZEL:  Six Eggs ought to do ... and Thanks !!!
 
BEBE, PARK4, PETER LAKE,  CAROL ... and all the rest of you Bless You, and Thank You for your kind words ...
 
I love Rhyselle's Story above, and the Happy Moral to it ... Being where I was during the Cold War I can say that the Cold War was actually being played-out in the Media, bolstered by the hyperbole of the idiots in Congress ... As much regard as I have always had for Patton (not George C. Scott) I was disappointed that he took the bait when the smear campain was carried out against the Russians, and wanted to attack them so fiercely when they were all but completely spent, Economically and Politically after WWII ... Nikita Kruschev, when he was serving as Stalin's Bat Man ... told Stalin repeatedly that it would be suicidal to get into an Ideoligic War with The United States, not only because we were the only real Ally that Russia had(tho' the Greeks were willing to be counted in there too,  hindered only by a Propriety Dispute between the Russian and Greek Orthodoxies) but also because until they got back on their feet, around 1947, they couldn't even afford a War of Words !!!   I listened to Kruschev's speech in October of 1960, live at the UN ... and all that Business with his banging his Shoe on the podium was just Dog & Pony Show, for the Rubes in the Press Corps. ... And a lot of the posturing going on back then was because Kruschev REALLY didn't like Kennedy at all, and had stated several times that he would much rather deal with Nixon, whom he declared was not only more intelligent, but more reasonable as well ... Niki thought the most intelligent decision Kennedy had ever made was, his affinity for Cohiba Cigars ....... I have to agree, and certainly one of his worst decisions was to take over the French IndoChina War, which had been raging for 3500 years at that time,  since South Viet Nam was Champa, and North Viet Nam was split and called, Anam and Ton Kin ... We were never intended to win that war ... it was a complete waste of Human Life ... never mind the money and time ....... I made nine trips over there, nine separate Missions, and we still came in 2nd. Place in the Southeast Asia War Games .......  I know this is Off Topic, but what the hell, its yesterday ...