A New Nation

I would like to find a book of the starting of the United States of America. From the discussing of the Constitution and everything in between to the actual running of the new Country. I want an interesting read...nothing with nonsense in it. I am being specific but one of my degrees is in English so that's my reasoning. Thank You ahead of time for any and all ideas.

Robert,
 
I fear you may have asked for the impossible.  You want a book of history but "nothing with nonsense in it".  Alas, you may have requested a book that does not exist.  In the immortal words of Josephine Tey, "History is bunk".

Everything I know about the Constitution I learned by watching "Schoolhouse Rock."

Robert:   Don't  let  us  old  cynics  get  you  depressed.      Bravo  for  actually  attempting  to  LEARN  something,   something  clear,  concise,  and   accurate.....and   BRAVO   for  planning  to  instill  that  learning  in  your  students.   They  are  our  legacy,  and  tomorrow's  leaders.

My  personal  "easy  read"  favorite  text  is  "1776"  by  David  McCullough.    It's  available  in  paperback  and  even  in  used  book  stores,  although  shame  on  the  student  who  casts  it  aside.   
John  Peterman  has  posted  a  book  review  from  the  New  York  Times,  the  selection  looks  fascinating.  I'm going  to  wait  until  it  hits  the  paperback  shelves,  then  invest,  but  that's  just  because  I  always  dig  deep  for  others  at  Christmas.  Robert  has  his  inquiries  addressed  head  on,   assuming  the  book  is  half  as  good  as  the   reviewer  says  it  is.
I've  said  this  before,  but  our  children  do  worst  on  standardized  tests  in  civics  &  government,  a  national  disgrace.   That  includes  my   own  kid,  I'm  sorry  to   say.  Our  collective  presentation  of  our  own  history  needs  to  make  learning   enjoyable  and  fascinating.    America  is  special,  yet  fragile.....ignorance  of  who  we  are  and  what  we  really  stand  for  scares  me,   much  more  than  those  hiding  at  the  border  of  Pakistan  &  Afghanistan  who  would  do  us  harm.   

I got a good grounding in American history as a kid, but frankly the story of America is a depressing one, and I was NOT taught the truth about a lot of it... and I'm still learning more and more as I get older.  Perhaps it's for the best that American kids are ignorant of the truth, and simply have been indoctrinated in flag-waving nationalistic jingoism.  But my preference would be that they simply care about knowing SOMETHING (anything), computers, knitting, hunting, video gaming, whatever.  The really scary thing is ignorance combined with nationalistic fervor.... and that witch's brew is all around us.... 

Bert:  You're right!  The downside of all the cultural diversity thing, is that many school districts spend so much time focusing on political correctness that  they don't teach American history.  I am of the generation that   learned about the Korean War by watching M*A*S*H.  I find this distressing as I grew up in NYC and I've always lived about 10 miles, or less, from the site of some historic event.
 
As a kid, in the 70's, we were taught NOTHING about  American History after the sanitized version of the Civil War, except the list of the Presidents.
 
Yet, I think my education was far superior to what I see now since so many schools refuse to have children say the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the National Anthem.  If it weren't for those over-priced  American Girl Dolls I wonder if middle class kids would know anything about the United States.  
 
    

Those who 'honor' the Constitution (just one more manmade law, sad to say) don't usually seem to have read it as originally ratified... the provisions regarding how slaves were counted is just one egregious example.  Lots of folks seem to think it was dropped from the sky (like the stone tablets Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai from God).  That is truly sad, especially since many of these folks seem bent on 'restoring' America to some original state that never existed.  They are lost in a fog: that of myth.

If readers here would like to 'peek beneath the blanket' a starter is the Emma Goldman website at http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman .  There are so many reasons why I like this website (though I thoroughly disagree with almost everything Goldman represented) that I'm not even going to try to describe them here (ain't ya'll glad? ;-) 

How many know the story of the Mexican-American War?  The sad story of the Cherokee Nation?  The 1857 Mountain Meadow Massacre?  .... How many folks have thought that the current attempts by Russia to extend its dominance over the 'Near Abroad' aren't much different than the Monroe Doctrine?  What about the seizure of Cuba in 1898 from Spain?  America may or may not be 'a shining city upon a hill' (R. Reagan) for some folks, but try telling that to the Navaho.... The myth founders on historical fact.  America is just one more sorry nation busily glorifying its past, just like the Serbs, or Poles, or British, or Chinese do.... History is NOT the friend of myth-makers.  History is subversive.

Is it really acceptable that Americans are ignorant about their own history?  Our leaders are human.  We can't expect them to be perfect.  We need to know the dark side to understand how decisions were made and how we are preceived by other nations.
 
Our original documents were intended to be clearly stated rules with a provision to revise and revisit as needed.  We would never be able to pull together a Bill of Rights these days because we would be too concerned that we might offend someone.  

Julia  Masi,  Doc  Nolan,  et  al:    There  is  an  entity  in  Pennsylvania  called  the  National  War  College.  Generally  speaking  if  you  are  to  advance  beyond  the  rank  of  major  you  must  attend  &  graduate.   It  is  10  months  as  a  dorm  resident,  or  2  years  online.      You  wind  up  with  a  master's  degree  in  "strategic  studies."       Some  succeed  without  the  credential,   Colin  Powell  was  a  college  ROTC  officer,  with  leapfrog  promotions.
 
Some  who  attend  the  NWC  are  from  countries  other  than  our  own.   Once  I  got lucky,  having  a  chance  meeting  &  serious  conversation  with  such  an  individual.  Airport layover,  someone   felt  sorry  for  me,  and  snuck  me  into  the  frequent  flyers  club.  Anyway   I  learned  that  the  biggest  frustration  of  this  individual  and  of  others  similarly-situated    was  that  our  own  people  were  technicians  of  applying  the  theory  &  practice  of  war,    but  virtually  ignorant  of  our  own  history.      Furthermore  our  own  people  did  not  have  the  desire  or  even  the  intellectual  curiosity  to  ask  when  &  why  problems  should  be  resolved  by  force  of  arms.   That  was  left  to  the  POLITICIANS.....OMG!

In high school I took an American History regents exam.  All I remember from that class was our Cuban born teacher telling us that "war is good for the economy."  He said it just about every day and advised us to use this like a mantra that could be inserted to any difficult esay questions on the test.
 
My elementry and secondary education was taking place at a really exciting time in US history.  Few of my high school teachers were raised (or educated) in the US so they couldn't answer any questions on what happened in 50's or 60's.  I learned  more about Castro than I did about Nixon.  And I did not go to a public school. My parents paid good money for my imcomplete education.
 
But as I look back on it I wonder if my high school teacher was correct and maybe that is a reason why we are sending more troops into the Middle East. 

I want to Thank all of you for your ideas and thoughts. I am taking in my coffee and playing with my pets but most importantly taking inventory on your words. Again, Thank You very much!

Julia  Masi:   War  can  in  fact  be  good  for   the  economy.   WWII  jump-started  the  American  economy,   finishing  off   lingering   economic  malaise  from  the  Great  Depression.   But  economic  prosperity  should  never  be  anything  other  than  a  secondary  gain  of  entering  into  a  state  of  war.
 
It  is  interesting  that  you  mentioned  Cuba.   Miami  is  informal  headquarters  for   at  least  a  million  Cuban  Americans,   who  until  recently  voted  as  a  block.    Now  younger  Cubans,  born  here,   are  creating  political  diversity.    Castro  is  an  old  man,  and  very  ill.    His  country  is  90  miles  offshore.   They   have  pent-up  demand  for  all  kinds  of  consumer  goods,   and  their  infrastructure  is  crumbling.   We  can  go  a  long  way   to  both  help  cure  the  recession  AND  rehabilitate  our  "gunboat  diplomacy"  image  in  Latin,  Central,  and  South  America  by  revising  out  relationship  with  this  island.    Or  we  can  sit  around,  afraid  of  backlash  from  this  group  of  voters  (and  the  effect  on  Florida's  electoral  votes),  at  which  point  it  will  only  be  a  matter  of  time  before  others  step  in  to  fill  the  vacuum.   JMO.

The moral basis of the state is shrouded, either visibly obscured by distance or more literally wrapped as if for burial. But we can all remember the answer to the question, "Why is there a state" or "Why is there a nation" if we think a little bit about it. Founding nationalist classics, like the Aeneid, are good markers. Synopsis: the fleeing Trojans land in Italy and found Rome, ergo Rome exists because it is the light carrying descendent of Troy. Once you've got a Founding Myth, and once most of you/us decide to act to benefit that myth, then we've got a moral basis for making what we do a "good" and what any outsiders do either neutral or downright bad. It's pretty simple.

All of human history is a recitation of making humanity subservient to myth and ideology, and in doing so causing humans to behave inhumanely. Rome did it, religion does it, modern governments still do it. What is absent in the modern narrative, though, is that age-old sense of "playing for your team". I seriously doubt if there can be found any one outside of the military who would do something, say, noble and then give the reason that "well, I'm an American, and this is how we behave". I'm not saying this is a bad thing. After all, the antique concept of "Christian charity" always came with a hook, didn't it? Here's a bowl of soup, you poor person, and while you eat perhaps a small reading from this little book here... Far better, it seems to embrace the concept of Charity without qualification, or in the case of the church, let's call it "branding".

In the same way there used to be American justice, or French liberty, or British rule. Better to have simply the concepts of Justice, and Liberty, and have us all believe in them irrespective of their origins or brand. But who is to rule? The answer is of course All of Us. If we're not playing for our old-fashioned teams, meaning our countries, then perhaps we can just work for our original team, our Ur-Tribe of Humanity. There are some who say that there's no such thing as a single group of humanity, that the moment you put three people together then two will form a faction and kick out the third. Maybe. From my puddin' headed perspective, informed mostly at playgrounds, I see parents who enjoy each others' company and who are brought together by nothing more complicated than the shared play of our children. I optimistically wonder if recognizing our shared humanity at the playground could translate to higher levels of interaction, or if there even is such a thing.

Self-Reliance,  by  Ralph  Waldo  Emerson.   Critical  to  understanding  what  made  our  country's  founders  "tick."

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofYmhlclqr4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VQA5NDNkUM












 

While it is completely unacceptable that the majority of Americans are completely ignorant of their own history [a succesful faux-campaign to end Women's Suffrage comes to mind], it is entirely reasonable that they are. With our very shallow history and our present-tense living, it is not unsurprising that most Americans have no idea where we as a country are headed, let alone were we've been. A recent study showed that 44% of Americans favor a return to Isolationism - that factoid alone is a very scary thought; a large percentage of this country is willing to turn its back on an ever-increasing globalized world and turn inward, back to an idealized 1950s Nation that never existed, not even when the boys returned from the European and Pacific Theaters after the Second World War and essentially willed that society into existence. This same crowd that wishes for a return to isolationism also views China as a threat, sees all Muslims as terrorists, and anything that is not a product of Christian values as Anti-American. A large part of this same crowd tends not to vote as they considered American Politicians controlled by a Zionist-Conspiracy that is bent on crushing American ideals and values. We are living in at a both very exciting and very frightening crossroads in or Nation's history. Whatever happens within this next decade can very easily determine our place in the world over the rest of this century. I canonly hope that we move in a positive, progressive direction and leave these nay-sayers, these essentially Nationalistic Americans behind. Reading articles such as this one only further emboldens me to concentrate my focus on American History, as it is a truly exciting and fascinating one, and that hopefully, I'll have a professorship one day soon, so just maybe, I'll be able to educate a few young people about the history of their nation. 

Bert:  I'm hoping that our relationship with Cuba will become a win-win stituation, trade and tourism should benefit both sides.  
 
My issue with my former high school teacher is not his nationality (I think we had immigrants from 5 continents teaching us then.) but the fact that he wasn't teaching us the foundations of American History.  You hit the nail on the head, "war can be good for the ecoomy"  but its not the cure for a recession or depression.  My issue is that I should have been learning about  how Eisenhower and Truman handled military problems or Nixon's detante policy or why Ford refused to bail out NYC in 1975.    

The  Gettysburg  Address.    What  unique  ideals  summarize  America,  in  a  nutshell. 

Bert- standardized tests in civics and government? Never heard of them. We have FCAT, which is math, reading, writing, and science, and NRT, which is math and reading I think (I haven't taken it in a while). That's all. It used to amaze me that people could actually fail either of those. The NRT even has pretty colors and stories about how pineapples don't have sleeves.
I took AP (advanced placement) US history last year, and it was the first time I've ever had to work hard in an AP class...because of the teacher. Most people took Honors USHist., and were doing (if they actually did) Viet Nam, while we did Industrialism.

Velvet:  Your teachers are probably my age so of course your civic, government and US History would be minimal.  The thing I liked best about High School Social Studies was reading "Working" by Studs Terkel. 
 
What courses are you taking this year?  

"Working"? What's that about?
This year I'm taking Holocaust Studies, AP Art History, AP literature, AP statistics, Philosophy, Physics, and AP French. Plus AP macroeconomics next semester

It was a collection of stories about people who different jobs all across the country.
 
AP Art sounds interesting. I took a class in Renaissance Art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art when I was in high school.  It only met once a week but it  was an amazing class because after school  you could hang out and explore the rest of the museum.
 
Halocaust Studies sounds interesting and a little depressing.  It must have some fascinating reading material.
 
When I took AP lit it was all about absurdist theater.  We read Priandello and Ionesco and then saw some off=Broadway plays.  But that was a million years ago.
 
It sounds like you are  having an interesting semester.    

Velvet:    the  newsboy's  cap  makes  you  smarter,  jmo.

  
Aw geez, here we go again: The generation before ours set a standard that, for one reason or another, was impossible to live up to and the one that we have spawned is a sagging, lackluster disappointment.

Even if true, and I take exception to that notion, is it not just about time (and I beg your pardon for engaging in this kind of psycho-babble) for a (cringe) paradigm shift, a new ideal by which to measure the value of those for whom so many of you have lost hope?

Evidently whining in despair is not having the desired effect.

Let's all take a big deep breath and face it: we are not going back, we are not going back-wards. It has never been done and it cannot be done now.

So, here we are in a new and different cultural situation or, pickle if you will, and to   p-a-m seems not to be the solution and yet, no chances to do so are wasted.

I gotta go buy a 42" Christmas tree for my late father-in-law's grave. It makes everyone feel good.

Jalopkin & all,

Thanks for the Vita Mix tip and the shopping advice. It arrived yesterday, was put into service this morning and blew my socks off. That thing is a horse... a Percheron.

It did a job previously unattainable, not very loud and fast... amazing and thanks again.  I will be bringing all outstanding issues here for resolution as they arise.

JM,

In Terkel's "American Dreams Lost and Found" an interview with one of my brothers when he was a lot younger and a bit intense, contains a slightly oblique and not unkind reference to me. It has, thus far, resulted in zero requests for more information.


 

Okay Stoney, I want to know more.  Pull up a chair and tell us everything!

Somewhere, I think during one of my classes for my history minor, I learned to filter what I read. I started asking "who benefits from history being remembered in this way?" And while that did lead to some interesting ideas, it was also depressing. History is supposed to be objective, but it is not.

Who ever told you that "History is supposed to be objective" had a hidden agenda... Heh.

Velvet! I remember AP History (I got a 5 on the test... is that still the top score?). I remember a lot of arguing about the Civil War.

Bert: Re your comments and at the risk of being repetitious.....  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bacevich .... and -- relative to your comment(s) "Furthermore our own people did not have the desire or even the intellectual curiosity to ask when & why problems should be resolved by force of arms"-- http://search.barnesandnoble.com/New-American-Militarism/Andrew-J-Bacevich/e/9780195311983/?itm=1&USRI=the+new+american+militarism   (If this full link is not highlighted, cut and paste into the browser 'URL window'.......)

I'm tempted to put more links up relative to Bacevich, but I'll refrain....  but as a vet, I think I'm entitled to make one comment more, and that is the loose use of the term 'hero'.  Someone who serves in the military is -- in my opinion -- not a hero per se, even if he/she gets killed.  Computer programmers working for NASA are not heroes (even someone kills them).  Ditto State Department clerks who get shot in Baghdad while walking across a street. Ya'll get the point: being a government employee and getting killed does not make one a hero.  A lady who steps in front of a speeding car in Oshkosh to grab a crawling infant is a hero.  A guy who throws himself on a hand grenade to save a friend is a hero.  A tanker whose head is sticking out of a turret at the wrong instant and has it blown off is NOT a hero.  He's a casualty.

History has a lot more folks getting killed as employees of 'the losing team' than heroes.  Folks south of the Mason-Dixon line know all about being part of 'the losing team'.... and that too is part of American history....

the Vita-Mix in the percheron of blenders, oh that's funny!
 
Do you have to nail it to the counter so it doesn't take off?
 
 
stoney, you do have a way with words, says me for the thousandth time!

i can't imagine being at and in war with people who should be protecting your back, but really don't want to be there.....thank goodness times have changed since the 60's and 70's and we have an all volunteer armed service.  makes for the hawk to watch out for the doves....

Doc, in my wanderings around the older cemeteries up here, I've seen a lot of Great Army of the Republic (GAR) or Union stars decorating the graves, and some headstones have longish stories on them, about the Wo-ah Between The States, and how the soldier beneath the stone laid down his life for the Union.
 
And just a couple of weeks ago, I found a headstone that said in effect that the deceased died in 1864, during a battle of the War of Rebellion. 
 
I'd not heard the Civil War called that before.
 
Years ago, when I was visiting down in Charleston SC, I met a lovely southern woman who commented, to my mention of the  "Civil War," "My dear, there was nothing civil about it."
 
I'd not heard that before she said it, I have since, but at the time, I felt as though I ought to go out and find a seamstress who would make up a scarlet letter "Y" (for yankee, of course), that I would pin on my coat, like the interloping Northerner that I was.
 
The other commentary I was privvy to was the difference between a good Yankee and a bad Yankee:  a good Yankee is one who comes down South and spends lots of money, then goes back up North; a bad Yankee is one who comes down South and stays.
 
;)
 
At least I qualified as a good Yankee.
 
***
Years ago, I took a memorable trip to Gettyburg; I'd planned to stay a week, but I stayed on much longer.  There was a lot to learn, so much to see, and time needed to sit down on the grassy rises, and feel and think and cry. Ultimately, there on that battlefield, any and every question I ever had or would have about justifying the horrible cost of wars was answered.
 
All those bodies of all those boys from the north and the south.  A killing field like no other, a war more deadly than any other.  Truly, as the lady from Charleston said, "there was nothing civil about it."
 
 

In high school American History, which was needed to graduate, was not my forte.
 
On one test that my Mom quizzed me on at home, I did very well with her quiz, I got a BIG 27.
 
I'll never forget that.
 
The nuns called Mom in to see what is the problem?
 
They had no idea about kids who don't test well ( or who don't give aff about that stuff).
 
Now some of it is of intrest but mostly I'm concerned with what's going on NOW.
 
I mean we have people who can't even feed or house or educate or cloth or give health care to themselves or their children.
 
WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?????
 
 
 
 

I guess Park4 wanted to say something but got all choked up and decided not to, after all.
 
 
?

slightly off topic but, about war and our posts re nucleor warheads a few weeks ago.  I posted, I think, that I have had a recurring dream since childhood of knowing that a missle was about to hit and not being able to find or be with my family.
 
Last night I dreamt that I was on my mom's porch and heard explosions.  I looked towards the East Bay and clearly there had been a nucleor explosion and saw the waves of particles coming towards us.  The fallout looked like snow.
 
I don't know what it means that after 60 years of dreaming about the missiles... one finally hit.  Is it the news, turning 60 or ..who knows.   My 91 year mother said it meant nothing.  Needless to say it was a sleepless night after that.
 
When i was young I was sure that we could right the evil in the world and as I have posted before if we educated everyone, taught history, taught children how to think analytically... wars would end.  Now I am afraid that human nature...greed, lust for power etc...  can take over inate goodness.  I will still keep hoping for peace and the end of corruption everywhere.... anyway.
 
Speaking of goodness read "Thee Cups of Tea" and  "Sones into Schools" by Greg Mortenson.

http://www.gregmortenson.com/how-to-help/central-asia-institute/

korthal:  Probably the answers to why there exists such things, can be found in history.  And history provides blueprints...that need updating and tweaking, but don't underestimate the importance of understanding those blueprints.
 
At the very least a benchmark gives us something against which we can measure what our current phalanx of politicos is not doing.
 
~
Oh hope springs eternal, doesn'it it?  I wonder at what point the one who hopes becomes the fool?

<sigh>
 
"at the very least a blueprint gives us a benchmark against which we can measure..."
 
 
 
 

 
Kim~

Re: "Three Cups Of Tea" by Greg Mortenson: Yes, yes and YES.

That is exactly what we need more of and as much as I would rather pluck nostril hair until it is all gone, I will quote as well Tom Daschle: "The view out of the windshield is better than the view in the rear-view mirror."

Good job!

ON PBS, right now!

 
 
7:00pm - 9:00pm, WMVT (13)
Celtic Woman: Songs From the Heart

Celtic Woman perform Jimmy Webb s The Moon s a Harsh Mistress, Andrew Lloyd Weber s Pie Jesu, Sting s Fields of Gold, Mariah Carey s When You Believe,...

The Central Asia Institute of Greg Mortensen is a good thing. It has long been known by those who know such things that educating females, empowering them and helping them take control of their lives from male exploitation will improve a community.
There are many quotations the gist of which is that one can tell how civilized a culture is by the way women are treated.
Many NGOs now will not deliver aid to any but women. They found that women see that the aid gets to those in need. Men trade stuff for more guns.
We have a long way to go as a species.
 
As for books, I have a couple of suggestions. Anything by the aforementioned Studs Terkel is interesting history. But for a real eye-opener, I recommend A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn. It's history from the bottom up, from the perspective of the weak, the conquered, the vulnerable, the minority, the exploited, the snookered, the exterminated. This book will astonish and depress, enlighten and enrage, confirm your cynicism and confound your sensibilities.
It will literally change your mind.
We need to look forward, but we can only understand what we're seeing if we've looked back in anger, in sympathy, in skepticism, in interest and compassion and curiousity.
 
Education is a radical act. Politicians talk about it in noble oratory, but everyone sees our educational system deteriorating steadily.
Why? An ignorant populace is a gullible populace, easily manipulated and easily led, frightened, exploited, controlled. And that's what the current system is all about: indoctrination and control. That is why we have one party with two heads, why their spats are meaningless, why they both take their orders and their monies from corporate masters who control what America does and what America is today. That is why single-payer is off the table-corporations will suffer if Americans do not. Wall Street incompetence and greed is subsidized by our tax dollars, and we are left twisting slowly in the wind, confused, angry, bewildered, misled, and ultimately impotent.
Most politicians are whores, many are criminals, and our 'leaders' will do anything, say anything, to hold on to power. They know the electorate can be deceived repeatedly, and the alert, the informed, the indignant are a minority who cannot motivate a vast but torpid population easily distracted by shiny toys and pointless entertainment, what the Romans called 'bread and circuses'.
They know we will forget yesterday's outrage, because we have no frame of reference, no grasp of history.
The dumbing-down continues, and it's getting worse.
So it goes...

Once again, thank you Olivia.
 
I met a man in the airport last month who  is an electrical contractor in Afganistan.  I asked him what organization really helped the people of Afganistan...and he told me about  Greg Mortensen.  I was totally against sending more troops into Afganistan until I talked with this man.  He said if we don't protect the schools and allow a generation of women to get educated..to be empowered... Al Queda  and the Taliban will thrive.  Women cannot be  treated medically because they can only be seen by women doctors but, there are no women doctors.... and on and on.
 
Eduacation is the only tool that will make peace  ... our country sinks and stinks.  And my skeptical soul is afraid that money, greed , lust for power  will really rule all.  I think I have given up hope but, I will still work to change.

will someone tell me how to email an individual person without the whole group???/

  

Kim,

Click on that persons name/identity i.e.: "Stoney" and toward the center top of the page that opens, is an envelope icon. Click on that and you are into the postal system.

Having said that, I sigh deeply and sadly for the last few posts and totter up to bed.

some how.. I can't find the evelope but,  maybe I need to clean my glasses.  I am too tired.
 
I am sad too.

Greetings Robert:
 
Sorry for late post; I don't get to read the Eye on the weekends as I'm busy up at the horse barn.  Try "The Federalist Papers".  Cheers