The Homework Debate

If Olympic atheletes, professional golfers, astronauts, and surgeons were to practice and rehearse their skills in the same way that most elementary and high schools students do, how many would have acheived at their level?  The more time one spends developing a skill, the more deeply ingrained it becomes, the faster one performs itand the fewer mistakes one makes.  Malcolm Gladwell argues that one masters a skill after about 10,000 hours (i.e. over then years at three hours a day).  So, if students go to school (and actually drill in their skills while inside the building!) an added 15 percent longer each day --- or if the number of school days is increased by 15 percent -- then one could presumably reduce the time spent each day by 15 percent (eliminating homework time).  But that's to maintain the PRESENT level of performance!  If one wants to develop children who excel, then more time in school (actually learning and practicing!) PLUS doing homework would push them beyond their current levels of performance.

The problem with a lot of education is that the inputs are measured, but the process is not.  Sitting in a chair listening to a person read the textbook out loud (the lecture system) is an inefficient use of time.   (Most people can silently read 5 -10 times faster than a teacher can read the same words out loud.)  In either event, it's not the inputting of information but practicing the manipulation of the input data that's at the core of becoming a useful person.  (Imagine Mozart reading scores of music for years, but never actually sitting down at a piano, or putting pen to paper and composing.  Not much for anyone to value, use, or remember....) Theory and praxis need to go hand-in-hand.  

My favorite Substitute teacher in H.S> was an airforce man ~he taught in Japan in the mid 70's. HE could not believe, how much time those kids spent learning & studing compared to us American kids. Yet he also realized that the WAY each country approaces teaching was SO different & that's what made ALL of the difference between the levels of applied intelligence.
 
I am of the opinion that the way children are taught here is very much out of date & that the No Child Left behind act although looks good on paper is actually killing America's chance to allow kids to learn & teachers to teach.
 
My parents helped with me with my homwork, (when I actually did it) math, science, some history. To their credit though they never would touch anything that us kids brought home that would be opinion based in the answer. I think we were one of the few families where as kids we were allowed to form our own ideas about the world as a whole as it was not really hidden from us.
 
NOw one of the rival H.S.'s had a math teacher who assigned 2 hours of math homeowrk a night to all his students. He was of the belief that homeowrk was good for kids ~ I think I would have flunked H.S if I had that guy...        
 

My  daughter  is  15,    a  "wise  fool"  in  2nd  year  of  high  school.   Her  home  room  teacher,  with  a  straight  face,  tells  me  that  it  IS  TRUE  that  the  students  {translation:  my  daughter,  the  only  thing  that  really  matters  and  for  which  god  WILL  hold  me  accountable}  are  now  allowed  to  use  the  word  "ain't."   Her  reason:  "It's  in  the  dictionary."    OMG,   WTF,  how  have  we  gotten  to  this  point?     I  am  no  eliteist,  but  neither  am  I  anyone's  fool  {except   perhaps  ONE'S  fool,  but  she  is  a  different  story  for  a  different  day}.    Parents,  virtual  friends,  help  me  out  here..... I  need  to  know  that  as  I  shower  &  shave  to  go  to  the  big  city  and  fight  the  good  fight  that  SOMETHING  rational  is  going  on  in  our  classrooms.....  Skyler  may  think  that  she  is  all  grown  up,  but  to  me  she  is  still  my  baby  girl,  and  for  one  of  only  a  few  rare  moments  this  high-functioning  mammal  has  no  clue  as  to  what  to  do.....

Yes Peter ....... they DO make life worth living ... One of the reasons I have decided to stick around and just not croak ....... Besides, I wouldn't give The Fourth Reich nor any of my Ex-wives the pleasure of my dropping dead .......
 
The Educational System in this country has been disasterously Retrograde for the last sixty years, and more recently with the wholesale distribution of Teaching Certificates to people who are wholly unqualified to teach, ANYthing ....... It is no wonder that it has been so difficult to get a Formal Declaration that English is the Official Language of America, ... because hardly anyone speaks it anymore ... especially so-called, Teachers ... We have E.E.O.C. Candidates spewing Ebonics, like it was perfectly correct for them to do so, sitting in front of our children, as Models for Human Behaviour, and Learning ... What a pathetic Joke ... Homework is a devise used by people who cannot teach ... We don't need anymore Cracker Jack diploma'd Teachers ... what we need are, EDUCATORS, who can equip children with the desire to learn, and make the Subject(s) interesting enough for them to WANT to learn ... so that they may all go forward into their futures knowing how to actually,    DO    something, to contribute, to grow, to build and expand, grow more and better, safer, less expensive Food .......  Sadly, we make children repeat the drudgery of learning the same lies, the same Edited, Re-Written to suit the Victors, crap, and other useless times wastes, invoked to help inept, unskilled, useless Losers to keep a job, for which they are being monumentally overpaid ... How many Professionals has anyone ever known, that benefitted one iota in the performance of a job, by knowing how to Diagram a sentence ??? Most children being Graduated from High School today ... might be able to Diagram a Sentence ... but they have an Eighth Grade Reading Level, and the comprehension of a Turnip ... I saw this disaster developing when I was a kid in School ... because of that, I have Home Schooled all eight of my children, up thru High School, and each of the older ones has been accepted by one or more of the finest Universities in the world, and has been graduated with a 3.9 GPA or better ... One has a Doctorate in Theology and a Masters in Public Health, One has an Engineering Degree and an MBA, and Designs and builds Theme Parks, One has a Doctorate in Music, teaches at the College level and is a Brilliant Composer, One has a Masters in Education, working on a Doctorate and teaches on the College level, and one, who I had so hoped would become a piano player in a whore house, was graduated from Law School with a Juris Doctor, and is probably going to go into Politics ... the others are still finishing Elementary Education ...  But not one of the older ones was turned down by any school they had applied to ... Point is, I know what is wrong with the educational system in this country, and I know how to fix it, and I have prooved that fact, five times(so far) and will do it at least three more times ... and they all speak flawless English ....... Unlike their Daddy, who can, but doesn't always, and doesn't always spell correctly either, even tho' he can .......
 
Health Care is a dire situation and there is only one way to fix it, but as soon as they get that problem handled, the entire country MUST, revamp and revise the Educational System in this country, so that at least Intellectually, we will no longer be a fourth rate country ......   As much as I hate to say it, the Model we should use, is the WALDEMAR Schools in Germany .......

My dogs woke me up at 3:00 a.m. - an invisible intruder only they could see or hear. Thanks.
I am a teacher for special needs in a "high risk", impoverished district (although that is debatable) & education is a MESS! It is mangled beyond belief & if I had a child they would go to private school. RINGS- you are right on the money- NCLB is an abomination. Our little kindergartners are tested & tested & tested because of the ignorant people in charge of my district. I take my kids to the library to test them w/ accomodations- I can read test items to them & cut down the test as needed. THESE ARE 2ND GRADERS FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! We had a district wide meeting where the superintendent (how did this woman even get a college degree???) told us to have questions on our weekly tests & daily "bellringers" that match the state test format. IT IS ALL ABOUT TEACHING TO THE TEST.
DOC- I do believe in homework -IF- it reinforces the lesson learned & is age appropriate. The sad thing is that you have loads of children from families who are barely functioning in any kind of sense & so homework becomes one more nail in their coffin of hell. There is no one to help them, no one to show any interest, no one to care. The children who come from families that value education and are a cohesive unit are proud of their homework & do high quality work. So, it really boils down to what your family unit is- we have so many little ones raising themselves. I marvel that they get out of bed & dress themselves & come to school and are happy. You can't speak up because they will not give you a contract, the boards are corrupt buddies of the administration & we all wonder where the loads of money coming from the gov't is going- it sure isn't making it to the classrooms! Teachers are not allowed to teach- you're correct RINGS.
I taught for many years in private schools- a hippie, free school in Ohio & a Catholic school here in the south. Both were heads above their public counterparts.
We do the best we can, we are heartbroken at people in the school systems who have no business being there, we rage against the machine of public education that is working well in many places & gone, baby, gone in so many others. You marvel at the single parent who doesn't have money or education, but comes to every meeting & makes sure their child is prepared and you know that child will be okay.
Then, you get the little things that knock you over w/ tenderness. One of my little ones after our grueling Friday of testing(which I try & make fun w/ mini breaks, sips of water,reading the directions in Dracula's voice ,etc) looked over at me & said ( his much needed glasses have been broken for 2 weeks & so he squints like a little marsupial suddenly exposed to daylight), " I wish school was all the time, I really like school." It sounds corny, it sounds cliched, but those are the things you remember.
 
 
And so it goes and so it goes.

Homework should not be overwhelming.  It should be a way for the sutdent to  practice a skill like Math and demonstrate their understanding of what has been taught that day.  it should be a dianostic tool for the teacher to know what to re-teach.  Unfortunately, most teachers have so much on their plate trying to keep up with added elements of the curriculum, that homework is not evaluated properly.  If the teacher is going to use homework to help a student then there needs to be a formula to enusre that the child is not wasting time and repeating the same mistakes.  For example, if you give a student 5 math problems and they get 4 wrong then its obvious that he didn't understand and giving him 10 or 25 more will not correct his mistake.  Also, reading assignments that kids do at home should be something interesting.  And the only way most kids will find somethng interesting is if they can relate to it.  Kids will relate to classics and new material alike if they are given a foundation of prior knowledge befor they read the story.

I agree that healthcare is a dire situation that needs to be fixed before we begin restructuring our educational system.   In NYC the schools are under the Mayor's control.  If you go into the economically depressed areas, hyou'll find some of the best teachers.  If the education system is failing it is because of a lack of respect and proper compensation for our teachers.  Teachers are the foundation that we build the community on.   

JALOPKIN- How lucky your children are that you were so vigilant about their education.
I hate to kill your soul, BUT-many of the teachers I work w/ are incompetent & many of the teacher assistants have a degree from a historical college & can't pass the NTE or speak or think. HERE"S THE HORROR PART- these same people are going online to the fake universities & getting advanced degrees- you know- Univ. of Phoenix, Strayer, Thayer. It's the apocalypse- it's here...... We are entrenched in a ghettoized culture & I see no escape- except our own personal refuge that we all carve out for our own sanity.
 
 
P.S. What is your idea for fixing healthcare? I am VERY interested.

to have a world full of generals, is a world in general.

CUUKOO- you are so very mysterious this early morn.

BERT- half the people I work w/ use incorrect English- you daughter's teacher would fit right in. You SHOULD be upset!!!!

My son taught English for three years in a Japanese high school (interesting since he was supposed to be an ASSISTANT teacher, but the teachers routinely turned over Engish instruction to him since he was competent and they knew they were not -- in English instruction...).  No air conditioning in the hot months, no heating in the winter, no sunscreen allowed during recreation (yep, exercise!), no bleaching of hairof hair permitted, and no sunglasses.  --- In Japan, when the Ministry of Education decided to go from six days a week to five days a week, there was a national upwelling of indignation among the moms.  "What, so he's going to stay at home on Saturday!?  And how's he going to learn if he's at home playing video games or watching TV on Saturdays!??"  Solution: off to juku (private 'cram schools') on Saturdays.---Flip side of the coin:  My son assigns one of his classes a homework assignment to get the kids to practice writing in English: "What I did during vacation".  Hands go up.  "What should I write about?"  "Should I write about my family or something else?"  "Are we allowed to write about our pets?"  Etc, etc, etc.  The kids were terrified that they'd write about the wrong thing!!!  "Anything you want to is ok," my son says.  And now the kids were REALLY scared. The teacher wouldn't tell them what they were to do!  Finally my son explained that they wouldn't be graded, that he just wanted them to practice writing in English, and that he wouldn't be upset if they wrote something different than any other kid.  A bit worried they went home.  End of story?  Nope.  My son got called into the principal's office (a very nice guy who the teachers had no respect for but that's another tale...).  "Did you give an assignment and tell the students it wouldn't be graded?" "Yes." "Ah, well, Michael, here we grade all the assignments...."  And my son launched into the rationale for ungraded writing.  A bit hesitant, the principal said, "Well, this has already been started, so I suppose we could try it -- as an experiment -- and see how it goes."  End of interview.  

bebe...nah....politically polite
 
in general all should have the opportunity to become generals.

Another story from my son's educational adventure(s) in Japan.   He is walking down the hallway at school (early on) and peers into a locked room.  (The door had a tiny window in it.)  He sees about 30 computers there.  After inquiring a bit, he discovers the room is locked because the computers have arrived, but the Ministry has not yet sent a systems administrator to set up the network, get them online, etc.  Sooooooo..... Michael goes to the assistant principal and sweet talks him into letting him have access to one of the computers (yes, he'll be responsible if he breaks it).  The computer goes to the teachers' lounge where my son starts doing lesson plans on the computer, tracking grades in Excel, etc, etc.  The other teachers watch and eventually (one by one) ask, "Michael, could you show me how to do that?" "Sure!" And eventually he has the teachers all up and running.  FINALLY, the systems administrator is hired and assigned to the school.  "Ah, Michael-san, you are doing very well training the teachers.  Would you like to continue doing that?" (Training the teachers was part of the systems adminstrator's job description.)  "Sure thing!"  And from then on my son was the new adminstrator's 'partner'. An example of stupidity and exploitation?  Not really... After three years in Kitkyushu (max annual renewals of contract was three times) he decided he wanted to work in "a big city, like London, or New York, or Tokyo.  (Guess which was really his objective, heh, heh.  After listening patiently to 'dad's joke', "What about Mumbai?" off son went to Tokyo.  And there -- based in part on his fluent Japanese, but equally what he'd done in that high school -- he got what turned into a 10-year gig working as a subcontractor in a large Japanese communications company.  Job?  Acting as Engrish (joke) language interface between the network operations center and the firms English language customers and partners around the world.  And later -- though he turned down offers to become a supervisor, since they made no more money and were exposed to scrutiny -- he became the trainer to many who came (and often went, to be replace my more newbies).  Points: Education is something one can find if one seeks it out, skills can be learned and moved to new venues, not all folks take initiative, teaching can promote one's own learning, waiting on bureaucracies is not important if one wishes to acheive goals, one can work with bureaucrats and take advantage of their basic psychology, being a good salesperson is a skill that can get you far, etc, etc.  I'll let ya'll's homework assignment be:  'What have I learned from Doc's musings and how can I apply them to my own situation?"  Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha......  

Time for coffee.... later in the day I'll try to find time to share my grandson Alex's adventures in learning.  (He's going on four and attends a preschool less than one hundred feet from Michael and Yumi's home...).  But I smell coffee... and the timer just went off signaling the six-minute brew time is over.  (Yes, I've been trained; machines make good teachers!)

Our whole educational system needs to be revamped from the basic school year of summers off, to homework to teachers.  We need to pay our teachers on a scale equal to that of other professionals and then demand that they treat it as a good job, not something they fell into when everything else failed.  Tenure should be obolished.  (One first grade <first grade! ! so important> teacher allowed to achieve tenure had no less than five children with school-related stress problems at the end of the year.)  The school day should be a longer one and while homework isn't a bad thing if used to reinforce what was learned in the classroom, it certainly does no good when it's expected to teach instead of the, well, teacher.  Many parents simply are not equipped to teach their children math, a language or English and find that they are just as frustrated as their children.   
 
So much stress is put on parental involvement.  It's a good sound byte, but after educating four children in the public school system, what is meant is "fund raising".  "Involvement" is used as a ransom.  If you give us your time, then we'll do nice things for your children.  Because I had the time, does not necessarily preclude those parents who did not.  Those parens who worked two or mroe jobs to provide a better life for their children certainly could not be there for open house, or a Halloween party. And yes, there are parents who are simply not interested -- like it or not, there it is.  Are those children to be discarded because of their parents? 
 
I can count on the fingers of one hand, unfortunately, the good teachers that my children had.  Two of my kids could have done better and at a faster pace .... and with better language skills...on their own in a room full of books.  Two of them needed teaching; one had to practically beg for help and one was allowed to charm her way through school -- one of her high school teachers wanted to "fix her up" with his son.
 
Ah well, they're grown and in spite of homework or not, they're good contributing members of the world and we're proud of them.  Back to the next rant.

The problem with the "too much homework" argument is the assumption that all homework is the same. In the US, too often, homework is rote memorization, which, while useful on standardized tests, very often has no practical application. What kind of teacher would assign that kind of homework? Not necessarily a bad one, but perhaps one constrained by the system in which they work. This has become a matter of changing that old maxim "those who cannot do teach" to "those who cannot do find another high-paying job in another sector". We practically disrespect the teaching profession on a daily basis and wonder why our teachers aren't the best in the world. Those who choose to teach (an admirable decision, to be sure) are left with so few resources and so little time, that they have no real choice but to prepare their students in the most efficient way for an SAT. All other applications of knowledge are left by the wayside because the teacher does not have the time to address them appropriately and parents want their kid to get into the best college around simply because that's the expectation that society has set forth for them. In Memphis, TN, one of the worst public school systems in the country, the motto is "Every student, every day, college bound", which sounds great, but is about the most impractical motto ever hastily slapped on a letterhead. Here's where it gets a little weird: we should not want every student college bound. I know it may not be popular to say that, but it's unfortunately true. As a recent college grad, I can say with some authority that a college degree means next to nothing right now. We spend four years of high school preparing a student solely for a standardized test so they can get into college, then four years of college preparing a student for a career, only to place every one of those students on a level playing field upon graduation. Every one of those kids (who just made it through college because even there the teachers are encouraged to just get the students out the door) is stuck in the position of not having a career because either too many kids are graduating in their field, filling in all available positions, or their specific concentration is not in demand (our fault for asking an 18 year old kid what he wants to do with the rest of his life). They are stuck and end up either getting a job to make ends meet (more often than not, a job with no bearing on their chosen career field or one that requires no college education) or they decide to go to grad school to avoid the real world for a couple more years. It is a system designed to reward mediocrity. So, how does one stand out from the pack? In college, they tell you the solution is "extracurricular activities" or, as they're more commonly known, homework. Not the memorization that you're given in high school, but actual, real world experiences that serve to broaden your perspectives and increase your knowledge base outside of the classroom. I realize this post is a little long to get to a pretty simply point, but wouldn't it be great if we had a few practical applications of knowledge for our high school kids as well?

It's amazing that everyone seems to know how to fix the system but no one actually wants to get their hands dirty doing it. Blame the teachers, blame the parents, blame the schools, blame the government, blame the students themselves. The fault lies on the collective. not the singular. If we really wanted to improve the educational system in this country, all the retired people in this country should take up the mantle and donate some of their time to tutoring and enhancing the education the children in this country are receiving. If we really wanted to improve the educational system in this country, we wouldn't place so much emphasis on sport and celebrity. If we really wanted to improve the educational standards, long-term goals and working hard would replace instant-gratification (although gold stars are nice). The kids are in grave danger of drowning. I hope we all start diving in to save them.

Any collective endeavor involves the same management processes: plan, organize, staff, direct, control, and review.  And these are contingent on a shared objective or objectives... and therein lies the problem.  Are we trying to turn out creative people, first class athletes, dependable workers, obedient followers, leaders, or what?  Muddled thinking assumes (contrary to all the evidence) that all kids are capable of simultaneously being all of these.  Poppycock!  I don't know for sure, but I'll bet Mozart would have made a lousy accountant, no matter how much education he got, and I know that no matter how much schooling I'd gotten, I'd never have become a Mozart.  And then there are the folks who figure that -- like spending some time in state prison -- schooling is just an interruption between the joys of childhood and the joys of a minimum wage job and plenty of partying before one of your girlfriends puts the noose around your neck and demands you help her financially with your child (product of some of that partying).  

I see education from the outcome end of things, and it is interesting to interview students on what their schools did and compare it to the work they now do.  I have one student right now, whose high school emphasised writing and critical thinking far above any other school I've heard of.  She recieved a 34 (out of 36) on her ACT, skipped the first level of composition, and is already writing above the level of the class she is in.  But, she has few social skills, and a bit of a sense of entitlement that goes with having a high test score. 
 
I told her on the first day that my sister had gotten the same score on HER ACT and that I was going to have to take it out on her (the student).  She looked a little scared.
 
I had another student a few years ago, and his writing skills were barely at the elementary school level.  How he got into college is a mystery, and I don't think he is here anymore.  His school, I do know, taught to the test.  I think in his particular case, that involved memorizing "A, C, D, C, A, A, B, B, A, D, E" in that order (or whatever order the test would be in).
 
College is now what high school used to be.  A high school diploma was enough education to be a success in life.  Of course, back then, schools made students read books, think about what they read, and had to be able to discuss what they read.
 
It is interesting that this topic comes up today, because today is the first day that I am teaching all of my classes Walden.  I am doing this for the simple fact that I don't think anyone else in this school is touching the book. And I am assigning daily homework with the book, in the form of a reading journal that will be picked up and graded at random periods.  My students are in charge of leading the discussion, and are being held responsible for their work.  They have to look at themselves, the world around them, and make connections. 
 
We're hitting a frightening time in education.  Schools are teaching to tests, and colleges are wanting to cut writing requirements.  My school wants to cut the required number of composition classes from 2 to 1, and allow an option to get out of the required literature class.  I don't know how they expect this to work, but from the way the General Studies committee is talking, they were duped by someone's new teaching philosophy that seems to say we are working students too hard.
 
If they think college is hard, what are they going to think about life?

A collective endeavor would is necessary. We should not be trying to get children to be all things, but they should have a basic educational foundation in order to function as adults. Star athletes and musicians should have a basic understanding of mathematics and english in order to understand their finances and contracts and not need to rely soley on their accountants and lawyers. Likewise, the students that show an aptitude for academics should be physically fit in order to stay healthy and be able to be productive. I do realize what I am suggesting is dangerously close to creating an "ubermensch" but shouldn't we want our kids to excel at whatever they do best, but still have that basic educational foundation in order to live?

Daniel, you're right on with the "collective" approach, and, while I would love to see an army of elderly sages to help out all the kids (I assume you're on the horn to AARP even now) more tutors and educators are, in my opinion, not the solution to the problem. The fact is that we, culturally, approach education in the same way that we approach video games: get the high score, move to the next level. Until we reward the educated and the educators in a more significant way, we will continue to have students who want only to get by, to do the least amount of work in order to beat the boss and get to the next board. This isn't a case of "blame the parents" or "blame the teachers" but rather, it is an opportunity to change our own cultural biases regarding education. Certainly it starts at home, teaching your child that to be educated is a privilege and that it is something to be desired. In order to do that, a parent has to have tangible examples to give their child, but until we decide to reward those that excel, and not to reward forward progression, we will continue to have a youth culture dominated by the desire to get education out of the way so they can move on to other things.

oh, I don't know where to start.  I could go on forever.  My son went to a wonderful private school (on schlarship because i was a broke single mom ).  It was a school I went to as a child.  When i was at the school it had just opened so it was small and very experimental.  We did have homework as we got older but, it wasn't painful.  My algebra homework clearly showed that I didn't get it.  We had the most amazing singing tteacher that believed every child could sing.  We sang anything from Mozart to the Kingston Trio.  We had kite day to fly the kites we made in art class.   The kites we all shapes and sizes.  Few of them flew.  Our 7th grade teacher loved Shakespear... He made it so much fun and oh so interesting.  Medieval history came alive, we did a mummers play, learned book binding etc.  I then went to a public high school ... there was no excitement there.
 
When my son went to the same school 33 years later it was larger but, the music teacher was still there (he retired a few years later).  He looked the same and recognized me immediately????  The school had the same excitement for my son that it had for me.  He felt math was the most creative subject.  They did have homework but, it only took him an hour or so...when he did it.  In 6th grade he discovered fractals (sp?)  .  He then went on to public high school and pretty much had the same experience i did..maybe worse. 
 
There is too much emphasis on sports and being in clubs etc. (In theory the well rounded student but in reality a robot).  He was so miserable in high school that he screwed up everything he could. That showed 'um.  (note, panicky worried mother for 4 years.) He aced the SAT even though he forgot to tell me until we were on the way to the SAT that he lost his calculator...akkk.   
 
The difference of his "rebellion" of being the well rounded robot is that it affected financial aide in college...a lot!
 
When i speak to teacher friends ...in publice school.  They all want to leave.NCLB is making them teach to a test instead of teaching. 
 
I could start on my rant about Prop 13 and how it destroyed outr schools but, I won't.
 
 

I think kids ought to fear their teachers once again. 
 
That, in itself, would go a long way to ensuring a good education.  The good students would learn even more, the poor students, in fear, might learn something.
 
Which is a whole lot more than we're getting out of them today, in the atmosphere of "I'm okay, you're okay."
 
It's not okay to be uneducated.

Park4: Never fear.  I make a point to scare the crap out of my students at least once a semester.  (please ignore my evil laugh).  It is usually justified by some idiot wandering off-task or being disrespectful to the other students.
 
AS a student, I didn't really have homework. In elementary school, I just didn't do it, and in High School, it was all so simple, I got it done in study hall.  In my senior year, I was down to half-days, and one of those few classes I was there for was a study-hall, so I was all set.

Today  for  the  first  time  in  recent memory  I  had  extreme  difficulty  getting  into  this  website.  Finally  when I  discovered  that  it  was  due  to  too much  traffic  I  wanted  to  fall  on  my  knees  and  pray....    Thank  you,  virtual  friends,  for  assisting  me  with  this  difficult  subject.  
I  went  to  Loyola  Academy  in  Wilmette,  North  suburban  Chicago.  Best  decision  my  parents,  neither  of  whom  got  past  high  school,  ever  made.  Entrance  testing  required  to  get  in.  Feeder  school  for  Loyola  University,  and  all  other  Jesuit  Universities,  which  was  my  connection  to  Xavier  University  in  Cincinnati.   Official  policies:   Long  sleeve  shirts  with  collars,  long  necktie  of  our  tasteful  preference, no  jeans,  no  gym  shoes.   2  hours  of  homework  per  every hour  of  classroom  time.  No  doing  homework  in  school,  that's  why  it  was  called  HOMEwork.  We  had  to  use  cartridge  fountain  pens  for  homework,  ball  point  or  pencils  for  HOMEwork.  Fountain  pens  in  school  were  considered  contraband.  Study  hall  was  to  study,  NOT  to  do  homework.  Screw  up,  you  get  "JUG,"  a  Latin  acronym  for  "hell."   The  proctor  after  school  tore  out  a  page  of  a  paperback,  we  had  to  memorize  each  side,  and  recite  it  back  out  of  order.  Otherwise  you could  rot  in  jug.
2  years  Latin  required,  4  years  recommended,  plus  one  additional  foreign  language.  Only  guy  who  got  out  of   chemistry was  dyslexic  (sic.),  he  couldn't  memorize  table  of  periodic  elements. 
The  bottom  line?   For  those  that  survived,  they  generally thrived.  My  chess  buddy  is  CEO of  Mayo  Clinic,  and  dang  in  high  school the  only  "mayo"  he  knew  was  the  stuff  next  to  the  Miracle  Whip.   Michael  Jordan's  kid  was  there,  but  through  the  grapevine  I  learned  that  the  principal discreetly  reminded  his dad that  his  son  needed  to get  ALL  grades  past  a  2.5  aveage,  or no  sports  eligibility....no  exceptions.
Then  there  were  values.  We  had  an  honor  code.  Cheating  was  a  BIG  deal.  Insubordination  was  a  BIG  deal.  We  divided  classes  into  halves,  and  debated  each  side  of  controversial ethical  &  moral  issues.   One  fellow  in  the  Class  of '65  actually  stood  up  at  the  National  War  College,  and  politely  asked  General  McNamara  if  President  Nixon's  Vietnam  agenda  was  well  thought-out.  I  would  tell you  who  it  was,  but  then I  would  have  to  kill  you.
So yeah,  give  the  kids  homework. Hell,  it  forces  each  parent  to network  with  the  kid,  with  each  other,  and  with  the  school. Sort  of  like  a  FAMILY.  You  remember  them, don't  you? 

autodidact.  hated scool,except for get ahead at own speed option(limited applications,obviously)and saw benefit in apprentice programs. I now use teaching as selling tool; finding level of comprehension of customer and building upon that to make problems and solutions understood. hard when most homeowners are at the level of being challenged by changing the roll of tp...to sell complicated energy efficient heating/cooling solutions...humor helps in most situations

My son, a child of the montesorri system, is a homework fiend. At five he assigned himself homework because his montesorri teacher would not. It consisted of him copying each letter of the alphabet 3 times. My son set up the format, and then had his dad write each letter as an example, and then he copied it. the whole exercise took him about two hours, and he was so proud when he finished it. Unfortunately, when he showed it to the "teacher" the next day, the "teacher" acted like my son had done something wrong. Wouldn't look at it, insinuated that it was a waste of his time to look at it, and said something hurtful that to this day my son will not tell either his father or I. There's tuition well spent, yes? My son is now in public school (In second grade *egads*) and is assigned homework on a weekly basis. That kid will get mad at me if I will not help him finish it in one night. I tend to agree that younger children should not be assigned homework, but if they want to do it, by all means I will encourage and support it...

My first beef with the educators I come in to contact with is they seem to have the exact problem I had while in school. That is staying in school. My kids have so many substitute teachers even they have trouble telling me who is who. What this appears to do is get the communication of the staff (all the teachers on an imaginary team) out of kilter and on one week my kids are swamped. While the next week nada. In my opinion school homework should have a balanced rhythm that recognizes the larger balance of the rhythm of life for our young ones.

The next issue I seem to be observing it the teacher -v- parent war. Teachers are more and more opting out of grading papers, that process were you become intimately aware of who is learning anything and who is not, and opting into all sorts of auto grade systems, including other peers grading papers to add more pressure to the learning process. So we have a cop out on the one side. On the other side parents are so busy that they rely on the school lunch program to feed them to the extent we seem to want to opt for a summer school program as to not see children starve to death.

And finally in the midst of that war I found myself being called a helicopter parent ( I had to ask a friend what that means) by a teacher, when I challenged her on my child's interpretation of a book. We both agreed that his thought process for his interpretation was valid. But she succinctly told me that my sons answer did not conform to the available answers on the grading form and she could not bend. I actually agreed that both interpretations could be valid, but commended my sixth grader for applying a constructive argument to its conclusion. Of course someone in this story seems to have lost the view of one of the operatives of learning which is thinking, while she accused me of hovering over my child...to protect him from "educational abuse". Now try and find those to words together in a sentence anywhere else!!!!!!!!!!!! But when you find such systematic failure, I found writing this caused me to create a new term. Anyone who owns a mint and agrees may feel free to coin it. If you don't then flip it.

While I think homework is something that each person must pace him/herself with, one must not get lost in the true objective which is learning and thinking critically. If critical thinking were measured in terms of what new ideas, gadgets, cures, music, movies, I still have my money on the free THOUGHT found here in America. The measure of success is not found in homework but in thinking...teach them to THINK!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm cleaning out my desk today, shoveling it out is more apt a term, and honest to goddess, my old journal, my first journal, dating from 7.14.73 (first entry) which I have to keep in a drawer due to it's falling-apart condition -- it fell open, I turned a page, and on the next page I found a favorite poem, a mimeograph from college English 108; I taped it into the journal on May 16, 1975.
 
The date is important because it was two months after I had my daughter, and I wanted her to know, should the occasion arise in her growing up, how I feel about schooling and getting it done and done well.  The occasion didn't arise, she was an excellent student, but here it is anyhow, still with me.  I think it wanted to be heard again.
 
It's by John Ciardi, it's called: 
 
On Flunking A Nice Boy Out of School
 
I wish I could teach you how ugly
decency and humility can be when they are not
the election of a contained mind but only
the defenses of an incompetent.  Were you taught
meakness as a weapon?  Or did you discover,
by chance maybe, that it worked on mother
and was generally a good thing --
at least when all else failed -- to get you over
the worst of what was coming?  Is that why you bring
these sheep-faces to Tuesday?
 
They won't do.
It's three months work I want, and I'd sooner have it,
from the brassiest lumpkin in pimpledom, but have it,
than all these martyred repentences from you.
 
 
 

 Well the way I see it, and I'm sure its not just my opinion; that its a bit ironic that as a collective whole, we seem to take so much pride in our rugged individualism......you know.... the ol' ‘my snowflake is very different than everybody else's snowflake attitude........And yet it is too often assumed that we should be able to throw our kids over a wall into a one-size fits all education system with a finite amount of resources and expect those limited resources to flex and adapt to find just the right key that will unlock the mind of each child to enable them to fulfill their educational needs so they can become positive contributors to society. 
It is my understanding that our nation was one of, if not the very first country to recognize and respond to the need to establish a free public education system that would enable the vast majority of our children to have access to it.  

This is a grand example of great and noble intentions being fueled by inadequate resources and smothered my misplaced responsibilities.

I think time has proven that teaching requires a lot more than classrooms and homework assignment, and that the onus is on all of us. If we are smart enough to recognize that our educational systems and society as a whole is failing our children then we ought to just "nut up" and become part of the solution..... even if its one child at a time.

I'm inspired by those who convert thoughts and ideas into actions. I'm quite certain that our children and our children's children would be too.

I recognize that I need to do more.

Good stuff Peter, Just think folks as we sit here in front of our computers ripping apart our public school system, we are on the eve of putting health care in the very same box.  It seems for some reason that once we pass it over to the government to fix, we as a people have the knack to completely wash our hands of our end of the deal.  

I'm not putting it on the government, but I'm all for putting it on the parents.
You have kids, you teach them that they got to get an education, no excuses.
If your kids dont listen to you, you can make them listen to you, without raising your hand.  It takes work, lots of work.  But that's okay.  Raising kids isn't all play, just like growing up isn't all play. 
 
And no, nothing fits all, JPL.  But it fits most.  And can be adapted to a few.  But the schools aren't going to come to the truants.  It's the other way around, that's how it goes.
 
And Paul: about conformity and individualism:  I choose the latter, but it was necessary to do the former in order to make that choice.
 
I'm about to begin the first verse of the  "Personal Responsibility" song...  

Personal responsibility is the missing piece of the puzzle.  The student has to take ownership of his education and make an effort to review what is being taught.  Most kids don't know how to study.  They don't even realize that they need to schedule a little time between the t.v. and video games to read and look over their notebooks.
 
Homework should not take hours to complete.  Fifteen  minutes is fine for K-3.  If an average child can fisnish their homework in 15 minutes then, the child who is struggling will need 30 or 40 minutes.  Therefore, anything over an hour is going to be too much for the children who need to build good study habits. 

and what of the great and grand teaching experiment that put 4-6 children at a table,sharing the work load,learning how to think,and fit in?

Point  of  Clarification:   I  include  reading  assignments  as  homework.  And  if  the  book  is  good,  tied  in  to  a  great  presentation  in  the  companion  textbook,   it  can  even  be  fun.   I  did  not  imply  kids  should  be  chained  to  the  kitchen  table  and  worked  straight  through  until  dawn.....that  was  daddy's  job.....lol
 
Park4:   Holy  ravioli,  that  poem  really  made  me  sit  down,  and  reexamine  the  entire  issue.  Thanks  4  sharing.
 
Peter  Lake:   Rugged  individualism  might  not  be  the  appropriate  label.  We  learn  group  interaction  and   cooperation  largely  in  school,  which  really  helps  later  in  life.  People  skills.  Caring  about  others.  Helping  those  needing  a  tutor  without  being  asked.  All  kids  should  be  in  the  academic  lifeboat  together,  helping  get  to  the  other  side  by  using  their  individual  unique  skills.

When I was in the airport the other day I sat next to a man that was an electrical contractor in Afganistan.  His view is that we have to stay there at least 20 years so that a generation of children can be educated.  If they are educated then they should be able to think, build businesses, be doctors AND teachers.  women don't get healthcare becuase there aren't women doctors.  The land is incredibly fertile and will newer farming methods (not pesticides) such as plowing deeper they will be able to grow coprs that will not only support their families but will be enough for export.
 
Our children must learn to think!!!  Forget all this rote stuff.  Let them use their minds creatively.  I think "the right" is afraid of thinkers.  We can do national healthcare and our schools can once again be excellent. 

I think a major ingredient for a successful educational experience is 'respect'. Students need to be taught at home to give it, and many teachers, I think, need to be reminded that it has to be earned.

It is a marriage between how one defines their role and how their role defines them. Nothing is just a given nor should anything be taken for granted. It's always more complicated than that, but very doable nonetheless. 

Well I'm going to grab a nice warm down comforter, a bottle of Nyquil, and lay down and watch the stars pass by the skylight on thesepia train. Maybe a chicken pot pie too.

Don't bother to wake me up if we do get somewhere.

Peace out.

Get better, PeterLake.  Stay warm.  And dry.

Homework, huh? I'm occasionally thought of as a reasonable fella but sometimes you get stuff tossed in your face that's just too obvious. Know what I mean? This possible "new partner" was given a smallish homework assignment and blew it off like a cool breeze on a muggy summer day. Well, I was all set to transition to a quieter world, a "picnic by the creek" world. Ya know?!?
Even had plans of dusting off a top notch red winter wine in anticipation.
Homework? Isn't there a limmerick about that? Maybe a Burma Shave saying?
It's stopped raining again, back to the Pacific. Gonna stick my feet in 'til they are blue enough to drink with cabernet!! Homework? Fiddlesticks!

HOMEWORK????
 
Hated when I was in Catholic School and at 68, even though it has another meaning, I still hate it.

I'd rather be on my deck garden or the sepiatrain going to the vineyard of yesterday.

As I go to the travel icon and check out our pictures posted I realize what we are missing without our right side photos.
 
WE CAN ONLY HOPE THE GODS THAT BE ARE HEARING/WATCHING US HEAR/SEE OUR LOSS!!!!
 
WE REALLY NEED OUR PHOTO GALLERY BACK ON OR OUR RIGHT MARGIN!!!

OK, I'll finish off my lame rant. First of all- PL_ I hope you feel better- you seem like a man who would not take Nyquil unless he felt awful. We'll make the train go slow....
PARK is correct- it IS  completely the parents' responsibility. How you raise your child(ren) makes all the difference. Unless you work in the school system you have NO idea how much precious time is spent fighting w/ ignorant parents whose ill behaved kids ruin any chance of a calm, wonderful teaching environment. it really ends up being a classroom of two planets- the planet of delightful chidren w/ self control & manners & a thirst for learning & planet 2- the planet of children w/ no self control, no manners, no appreciation of learning or books from home & parent(s) who seemingly have no job nor an interest in raising their children to be productive citizens.
I will say there are marvelously run school districts where people care & then you have the districts w/ completely corrupt schoolboards w/ no accountability for funds, administration, & terrible teachers. It has to come from home- that's the base of the pyramid, but nothing will take unless that base is strong.
BERT- you have every right to tell your daughter's school that you expect her to speak grammatically correct english & anything else is unacceptable to you.
 
 

Well I've done what I consider my big girl homework for Monday night.
 
One half hour of Jeopardy.
 
And my favorite one hour of PBS Antique Roadshow.
 
 

I was going to post about grandson Alex's adventures in pre-school and my son's tutoring of him in Japanese (hiragana) and English (with a bit of Spanish thrown in.)  "How do you say 'usagi' in Spanish, Alex?" "Rabbit!" "No, in SPANISH, Alex!" "Conejo!" "Good boy! Very good!"--- Somehow, reading all the posts above leaves me a bit (no, VERY) deflated.  When my son recently told me he'd had a nightmare -- that he was back in the States, rather than in Japan -- I was momentarily shocked.  And then I realized that, despite appearances, perhaps it's better that he and his sons are in Tokyo.  It's hard to say, and a repeat of the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923 could turn that statement into a mockery in five minutes.  What is certain is that the world is changing very, very fast.  A bit reassuring is that if the U.S., like Great Britain before it, loses its preeminence in the world, there are millions of enthustiastic kids all over the world willing to step in and fill the gaps.  I just hope that my grandsons are not the displaced, but among those doing the displacing.  The world is now and always has been a Darwinian place.... Years ago I warned my son (like all teens a skeptic) that it didn't matter whether he got better grades than 'the other kids in his school'; the important thing was that he be ready to compete on a world class stage.  Curiously, while arguing that I was nuts (in much more polite language of course) he ended up taking up the challenge.  And he now continues the family's peripatetic tradition.... I just hope my grandsons Alex and Tony survive in what promises to be a very scary future world.... Their homework is to practice treading water in a big sea with big storms....

Homework? That's not the issue.  The issue is mastering skills faster than others can by whatever means work.  It's the old story about the two hunters and the bear: the survivor isn't the guy who can outrun the bear; it's the guy who can outrun the other hunter who gets away alive....

there is this wonderful bumpersticker that has been around for ages : if you can read this,thank a teacher-and if you can read it in American,thank our soldiers

it would seem to me,purely by observational inference,that the proliferation of knowledge,worldwide,will usher in many forms of thinking,and help shape a new paradigm of teacing/learning...rote homework may/will end up replaced by quest for answer,excitement of learning,thrill of question answered,....and getting the damn printer to work.....

We've got to get back to basics in our educational system, reading, writing, respect (for others and self) math and science.  We try to add to much to the curriculum for kids these days.  They may become overwhelmed because we just don't give them enough downtime during the school day.  Whatever happened to recess?  Some school districts start at 8 and end after 3.  In many urban areas school is replacing the family by extending the day and offering test prep and academic  intervention classes on Saturday. 
 
When you look at schools in neighborhoods with hig numbers of immigrant families and low economic status you sometimes find the most dedicated and caring teachers.  

So there was standing next to a parent in my child's 5th grade class. It was report card day.  And she looked upset.  I have to back up here a minute and explain that every weekend this teacher gave a homework assignment which was to find an article in a newspaper and write something about it for Monday. And her son (the upset mother's) refused to do it. Nonetheless the assignment was handed in every monday. So why are you upset I asked? To which she replied, "I can't believe this, a lawyer and an MBA and we only got a satisfactory?"
  

I just spent a very nice hour reading 'Jullanar of the Sea', one of the tales from the 1001 Nights. Now... we never read from classical Arabic literature when I was in high school (or for that matter in college).  If a teacher told his/her students to read a tale from the 1001 Nights at home and write a few paragraphs about it, would that have been homework?  And if a student came into a literature class and asked the teacher if he/she could spend the 50 minutes reading that tale to the class, would that have been classwork?  Would listening to the tale have constituted education (exposure to something new and wonderous)?  Would the effort involved in reading it aloud have constituted education?  If the book were unread would the education of the kids have been affected one iota (think of all of the millions of books unread by billions of humans!!!!).  And so we get back to the root issue: purpose.  And then (perforce) we are faced with philosophical issues: meaning, decision criteria, means and ends, and so on.   Perhaps (and ONLY perhaps) the only thing a teacher provides is a key which he/she hands to the child.  Perhaps the child is the instrument of his/her own education, choosing to either enter and explore the unknown worlds hitherto unexplored, or to throw the key away and huddle in place, immobile.  Perhaps we give to much credit to the teacher (and his/her hubris) and too little to the human mystery at the core of the child.  And then again, perhaps education is simply making the little robots into big robots, fitting them (like cams in an engine) to society.  As an eternal misfit, don't look to me for the answers to these questions.  I have no clue!  And as I wonder, time moves on, and we all get closer to the time in which our kids replace us and our civilization, values, and concerns with their own.  And we become strangers in our own land, as the future gobbles up, digests, and excretes the past......and us.

Feel better, PL.  Hold your nose when you take that Nyquil...it is nasty stuff (it does work tho').

Penn: you gotta be careful of that Nyquil.  I knew a guy in college who had to be in bed before he could take the shot.  If he wasn't, he'd fall asleep on the floor between the lightswitch and his bed.

PARK4, bebe and Penn,

Thank you for your good wishes. Just my annual rotor-rooter kind sinus infection that causes gridlock to everything above my shoulders and transforms me into M.r Wimpy. Another shot of ‘Quil and I'll crawl underneath the front porch, cover myself with leaves and will be better in the morning.

Best of evenings to you all...

Here is the most amazing part; US. WE. The EyEsters.    If our children(and in this case,it is the Empirical We-Our Children)carry on with this creative writing,reading,thinking,responding,revealing,we,they,have achieved success.   Afterall,it is the sharing of ideas,rather than keeping them as possessions,that allows us egress,  and as I have previously stated, "there were geniuses before the written/spoken word...that is why we have these words"

RY:  I like that, your last post, very much.  So true.

 To have homework, or not have homework, that is the question...
'Tis nobler, I think, to look at each individual and tailor his/her education to the way that person learns. Some benefit greatly from homework and some do not. It is a shame that everyone is expected to learn and comprehend information in the same way.
When I was in school, and I know I'm dating myself here, the emphasis was on learning. Teachers had a year-end goal of what needed to be taught to each student. How the student learned the necessary information was up to the teacher, student, and parents.
In this day of technology, you would think that teaching, by using each individual's inherent strengths, would be an easier task. Unfortunately, it seems that test results are more important than knowledge.
Every person has the potential to learn, comprehend, and apply what has been taught to them...both by teachers and through experience. Each person has strengths and weaknesses and passions that should be encouraged. An educational system needs to be designed to unlock the potential in everyone.