Pins and Needles

A relative tried it years ago.

She said it works.

I studied it. Yes, it was alternative culture back then, but Iwas open minded, and there were pieces of evidence that stood up to scrutiny.  I was not able to find substantive knowledge until I went to Europe. It seems (from books I found and read while there) that the Chinese culture of war medicine was contigious for thousands of years. And accurate records were kept. That was the genesis of accupunture as it is known: those fierce battles were hand to hand, and severed limbs from sword inflicted wounds common- - but they also had long range weapons - in reality,darts!! Actually they were arrows, but we would classify them as darts,as they were only several inches long,and like knitting needles,shot from bows- - - so you must imagine this scene; a wounded soldier,severely incapacitated by knife/sword activity, retreating to the "dispensary",but as he retreated, he was peppered by those arrow/darts- - and he walked,painless into the medic!!! But, as those darts were removed, one would make him scream in pain  (for the injury he had sustained) and so , that dart(accupunture needle) would be reinserted, and the thousands of years of statistical evidence mounted--This is what I learned way back then

Oh, by the way,  A lot of our modern day medicine was learned on our battle fields,too

Oh, by the way, it is way different then our approach to healing; we try to kill germs with poisons(pills,shots of moulds,etc.) accupunture tries instead to make the body strong enough to mount defense and self repair. As for pain, it defies our "Western" definition as to how it works, but c'mon now, they have used it successfully for actually thousands of years

2nd attempt! 
When my mom had a stroke, she wasn't found for 4 days, so there was little chance of any reversal in her paralysis or loss of speech. She could utter some sounds and wave with a broad sweep of her good arm and say Hiiii! when I arrived at the nursing home everyday. When she was especially frustrated she'd let out something that was clearly intended as Oh God! I'm sure her loss of speech was the hardest on her as she was still completely all there mentally.  Anyway, we found a well regarded acupuncturist through the local aternative and Chinese medicine college here. He would see her once a week and stick needles in her head. She was always thrilled to know when he was coming, in fact rather on pins and needles waiting for his arrival. At first the staff at the home felt uneasy seeing her with all those needles sticking out of her head, but after a few treatments, they were quite accustomed to it and hardly even noticed any more. I don't know if the treatments really helped her or not, but she sure seemed to enjoy them. Maybe it was all the attention she was getting!
 
My husband has back problems now and then (loading and unloading his drums for gigs)and will go for an adjustment at his chiropractor's when he feels the need, but one time it was really bad and he was having spasms in his back and he could hardly walk. so I took him to the acupuncturist. He was a bit leery about it but it worked very well and he had no more trouble for a while.....but he's never wanted to go back again.....not an experience he wanted to repeat.

and now for something completely different(and out of my character)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QUT0tweX1M

The acupuncturist who has seen to my needs, is board-certified in internal medicine.
We have had two stunning and immediate successes but neither was, at a later date, repeatable.
The first was to extinguish, for six months, an annoying facial tic.
The second was a one needle cure for a band of stiff soreness across the lower back after a two week holiday visit by our, at the time, five year-old attention demanding grandson.
I have had, I think, seven treatments that have been, in the main, pleasant experiences and remarkable as well because though it is usually almost impossible to lie flat front or back, it can be done during those procedures for a half hour at a time in perfect comfort.
It is not covered by insurance or medicare but costs only $58.00.
It's worth mentioning that the super-fine needles are difficult to feel and it is almost necessary to look to see where they have been placed before drifting away for twenty to forty minutes in the warm and dimly lit room.
It is one thing among many none of which works all the time and all of which are worth trying while considering their adverse side-effects. It seems to have none.

 RY ~
Very cool!

I wonder if there are any studies on the use of acupuncture and the treatment of post anoxic myoclonus?

Asian medical techniques don't just include acupuncture. Herbal and other natural remedies are common. I once had to manage a lot of pain, and simultaneously keep myself in the game. My Asian acupuncturist was very helpful. Perhaps he merely managed the perception my brain had of pain, instead of pain itself. That's too Jesuitical of an answer to matter, all I know is that w/o serious and addictive drugs he got me through my injuries, and for that I'm forever respectful and grateful.

Ouch...................................

Three needles in the arm a while after surgery to remove eleven #7 birdshot, stopped about half the pain and all of the feeble trembling in fifteen minutes.

RY -- so cool!
 
While I, myself, have never tried it, we do have friends who have.  One friend will do anything to avoid going to the doctor and so has tried every alternative to same so far, no luck.  Others, though, have tried after all the doctor remedies failed and really did achieve their goal which was in most cases, the relief of unremitting pain.  Acupuncture is, after all, an ancient remedy and frankly, there are times when I wonder about "modern" medicine.  Since April, I've gone from zero meds to quite a few (bitching all the way) and each has brought it's own reaction with it....some not very pleasant.   So, yes, if there was an ancient remedial method, I'd give it a shot.
 
I did read once that if you rub your (and of course I forgot which one) left or right earlobe when you have hiccoughs, they go away.  Since I forgot which one, I rub both and yes, it sometimes works .....must have hit the right earlobe by mistake.....and this too was an acupuncture method albeit without needles.

As a man of science who prays everyday and believes that the folks in China Grove were onto something, I adhere to the Storyteller's Creed- Myth is more potent than history and imagination is certainly stronger than knowledge. But as a hedge, I ask my dentist to put novacaine in that there needle. doc. When I bit the bullet, I chipped my cap.   

Good morning, everyone.  Lots of medicine is inexplicable and drives the MD's nuts.  O was on a car accident and unhurt except for pain in my chest, kind of on the surface.  A chiropractor at church overheard me and suggested that the seatbelt impact had popped some ribs out of place.  I paid her a visit and he popped them back in.  Did you know that Chinese puer tea will actually clean out your arteries.  It is the only aged tea, and has a nice earthy flavor - and a health benefit.  And eating black tree fungus which the Chinese do in quantity will provide you with natural lecithin.  Black tree fungus has the greatest amount of lecithin of any natural source.  Artificial lecithin is added to things to make them not stick.  It is added to the glop they call milk shakes (no ice cream or milk there) so that it won't stick to the sides of the dispensing machine.  So, the Chinese have way fewer strokes than we do in the west.
RoadYacht, you are right about the military and medicine.  If the military didn't develop it, then they requested its development in so many things.  The production of penicillin in large quantities was one, and so much of it was soaked up by the military that it really was not available until after WW II.  Surgical techniques always improve during each war, and enter the civilian arena later.  And all those fancy machines they have to measure how you function?  Everything from heart and blood pressure monitors to all the other stuff they use all came from the space program.  CIA had some software that was used to improve imagery, and the Director ordered that it be given to the medical world.  It has improved mammograms amazingly and saved a bunch of lives.

And just for fun, try http://yeli.us/Flash/Fire.html

RY, when you say you studied it, do you mean you are a practitioner?

My brother is a physiotherapist and is also a trained acupuncturist. Chinese people use TCM or Traditional Chinese Medicine (of which acupuncture is only one aspect) alongside the western Medical system. Most of us believe the latter is immediate and aggressive but targets symptoms whereas TCM treats root causes, is holistic and is thus a lot slower in healing. My family has used other forms of TCM though not (yet) acupuncture. We do also enjoy foot reflexology which uses a similar understanding of TCM

To understand acupuncture you have to back up a bit to understand the concept of "Qi＂(pronounced "chi") 

Just as "peace" falls short of the full embracing meaning of "shalom", "energy" is the closest we can get to the meaning of "Qi". It really has two aspects - one of energy or power or force, the other is a conscious intelligence or information carried along a vital network from one organ system to another (again, a different understanding of a physical organ vs the western understanding). It has been used to describe the relationship between matter, energy and spirit - is it any surprise that to a western audience it has been thrown into the "new age" camp? - except that its earliest conceptions was about 5th century BC. 

This image, a 19th century TCM acupuncture chart, shows the paths by which vital energy or "Qi" flows around the body. According to TCM, there are some 649 acupoints located along 12 major "meridians", the network of "energy" or "Qi", each related to a major organ system; these zang-fu organs are the gall bladder, heart, kidneys, large intestine, liver, lungs, pericardium, small intestine, spleen, stomach, triple warmer, and urinary bladder. Acupuncture is only one expression of "Qi" and I would hazard the most familiar to the western audience

http://www.petermanseye.com/photos/289981

"Qi" can be deficient (western equivalent Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) or can stagnate or be "blocked" (pain, headache can be a manifestation). Acupuncture can serve to clear, enhance or modify the circulation of these energy flows.

The art of harnessing Qi is Qigong and a master (shifu) in it can use it for health, medicine and martial arts. I grew up on movies of Chinese martial arts where a master can disable just by hitting certain acu-points (blocking the energy flow).  
 These videos provide some insight ...  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu99GRUUN6Y&feature=related   ;
(A Qigong master)   
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWCn8PkHeuk&feature=related   ;
(Heat from a Qigong master captured on infrared machine)   
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm_7uOMuIeE&feature=related  ;
(Shaolin monks sparring...check 2.17 where one's acu-pressure point got disabled)

Arguments for a revaluation of the Chinese yuan has been analogized here, by comparing Western medication and TCM, providing an interesting metaphor.   http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/12/chinas_currency

Ooops...I apologise....i didnt see the economist link up there :(

Lynn -- that was fun -- thanks

Lynn830 ~
Wow, talk about short attention span theater, I recognized every image but only one, Bardot, went by too fast.

 
 
 
I'm not sure what the point of all this is...
 
 
Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be here for the rest of the week.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I have seen amazing results of acupuncture on arthritic horses and dogs.  Seems to me that animals would not be susceptible to placebo effect, or any other outcome that depends on expectations.  Right?

During the 70's/80's, many hippie types set up as refexologists,  herbalists and acupunturists, with only bacic knowlege of what they were doing. Sharp practice? A practitioner is only as good as his/her training.

Every time Spring Fragrance wades into a serious discussion, I feel very lucky. The perspective from the other side of the world about so very many things often pokes big holes in our Western "time honored solutions." Ideas are not necessarily like fine wines, they don't get better with age, instead they need to constantly be expanded to incorporate new information. Many Western ideas, like fresh food, become stale and even deadly with the passage of too much time between inception and use.....

Dandy Don Meredith has passed. He provided so much entertainment on Monday nights that shall not be surpassed. I love Texans and so proud to have Kinky coming to Nashville next month. Doing the poster photo shoot today. Don's last interview has him saying he was proud of who he was and where he was from. Says it all. Say hello to Howard, Don.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xsDv6yCnY

Aaaaaa-choooooo! Some of those bacteria from yesteday's  topic escaped and got right up my nose. I'm feeling lousy.

Bert~ Me too, your remarks about Spring Fragrace - so aptly named ,as she truly is a breath of fresh air, contribtuting thought-provoking comments from the other side of the world & a different culture. To think, she nearly left us 'cos she felt like an 'outsider'! What a loss that would have been. You never know what the stranger in the Club Car has to offer.
I happened upon a nice bit of advice in one of my old notebooks -
"Be who you are and say what you feel,
because those who mind don't matter,
and those who do matter don't mind' "     (Dr Zeus.)
I think that would make a gootd motto for this page.

It's not the spelling, it's the typing! You know what I mean, anyway! First written message from my son, which I have in my treasure box, reads "Sumbudy foned, call them bak." I think he invented TXT SPK before the cell phone! Of course, he didn't get the name of the Sumbudy.

TT- Dandy Don was a true original, the best football commentator this side of John Madden.

First,
participants were given shocks without acupuncture.

Then
they were given the same shocks with acupuncture

Is it any
surprise that the research was done in Germany?

If anyone
is going to combine two methods of torture in the name of medicine,

it will be
the Germans, god bless 'em.

Is this not
an electric shock? Ja das ist ein electric shock.

Is this not
a shiny needle?  Ja das ist ein shiny needle.

Electric
shock.  Shiny needle.

Stick the
needle in my head, shock me til I'm good and red.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk

I know several people who have gone, said that it works, but still have the same pain.  So, I really do not think it works. 
 
I remember the biorythm thing several years ago that touted it could control migraines (of all things!)  I guess I am not in a believer of this...but there are those that do. But, again, this is just my opinion. Have a great day!

EADutton ~
Don't know about biorhythms but:
I did use biofeedback to get a handle on migraines to which I had been a prisoner for years. I haven't had one in over twenty-five years.
Basically, it's about breathing and you don't need to believe in it (I didn't) for it to work.

It must be worth distinguishing between relief and cure no matter what kind of treatment we're looking at.
If you have pain, and it seems everyone does from time to time, and something is available with zero side effects and at reasonable cost that offers relief, even if it is only for weeks or months, I'm in.
It would not be surprising to find practitioners offering cures. That is a different thing altogether and should be questioned.

Whatever it takes to relieve pain, I hope we all find and can afford it.

I have never heard of biofeedback as a medical treatment but it makes sense.  Except when something is broken or torn, if it isn't about diet, it's about breathing.   Regardless of the fix, the tools or the equipment, these must be in the hands of a skillful practitioner to effect a cure or relief.  I think Michelle Alton has a valid point, a placebo won't fool a dog or a horse.  

Spring Fragrance, I hope you will never again consider withholding your light from us. I look forward to your insights everyday...I even love your screen  name!!

George Hall......thank you!! That is my Chinese name....

Paolos -- had me chuckling
 
Hazel -- hope you're feeling better and got some decent tissues, not the mamby pamby ones -- Kleenex came out with a hand towel that makes a great ah ah ah achoo! tissue

oooh Hazel....I missed that ...I second Andy on the tissue....
..."Confucius "would agree...
 
Confucius say : (wo)man who sneeze without tissue take matter into own hands"..

I'll put aside my skepticism about acupuncture when somebody gives me scientific evidence that it works for erectile dysfunction. Second hand evidence would be okay. First hand evidence is hard to come by. Unless the Transportation Safety Authority is involved. Oh, where did I leave that rum...

Hey Doc, it hurts when I hold my arm this way.

Then don't hold it that way.

That'll be $250.00.

er......Isles ....now you're goading me ....lol....
Dont say I didnt warn you about Qigong....
 
.....dont try this at home now!! ..... 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3r9wbg16Ho

paolos ~
I think that biofeedback was presented more as "a good thing," than as a cure. It just happened to work out and got me off heavy drugs.
There were kids with asthma in the program who looked on it like being told to eat their spinach and one old guy who called it "medi-f@#*%ing-tation."
It was a very professional program with good equipment but not, come to think on it, as good as what we now have at home.

Isles ~
Good to see you. I think of you most mornings when I trot out the cast iron to cook scrambled eggs: no muss, no fuss, no sticking.
You must have a story backlog... get it all out-- you'll feel better.

My Acupuncturist (I affectionately call him Needles) kept my gall baldder in me. Really. The Doc (MD) was delighted to send me to a surgeon.The way I figure, it's part of the original equipment... work with me, will ya?We forget that Chinese medicine has several thousand years of clinical trials. 

It's even worse when snake oil salesmen stick it to ya....herbal enhancements merely inflate the charlaten's wallet

Worse than what?

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdNQt4a6f7g

RY ~
Are you implying that Smiling Bob is smiling only about money?

Seriously, if all of the money spent on that crap were devoted to figuring out what causes ED, it would probably have been solved by now.
It's probably hypertension meds... or hypertension.