Man of Order

Meetings are where innovative ideas and revolutionary breakthroughs too often go to be trampled to death.

I  Second Peter Lake ...  Meetings are like a John Birch gathering ... Everybody gets all excited, names the problems unabashedly, resolves to fix the problem, they cheer ... pat each other on the back ... have an ebullient round of well wishes, then leave in good fellowship to go home, .......  and do nothing ....... having spent all the energy they had for this moment, and several others in the meeting ....... and being slapped back to the reality of their own over-burdened schedules, and trying to get some sleep before the Alarm goes off in the morning ....... Having long since been branded by the establishment and the Media as KOOKS ....... just for telling the Truth, that hardly anybody really wants to hear, except those who are hardly able to do anything with it ....... Sometimes Meetings do succeed, if for no other reason than the delusions the masses have been force-fed, and have Sold Out to ....... Take AMWAY, for instance .......

NOT saying AMWAY doesn't have some fine products ... I use 'em myself ....... BUT, that is NOT, the point ..............

long ago as a senior in high school, we had a semester of mock legislature as part of our government studies. Those few of us that learned a bit of Robert's Rules were able to control debate, limit passage of legislation, and confound the majority party.

Robert's Rules may impose a modicum of procedure over the bullying of those not in agreement with the chair.

THAT ... Zen, is called Politics ....... And exactly why the first Lobbyist was born .......

Rats,   2nd  day  in  a  row  that  we  have  something  SUBSTANTIVE  to  talk  about,  and  here  I  am  conflicted  with  a  problems  elsewhere;;;;;;    On  the  other  hand,  life  will  get  along
just  fine  without  me,  nobody  is  that  important  that  the  planet  stops  rotating  if  they  need  to  "multitask"  with  another  agenda's  priorities......   Ivan,  please  save  me  a  seat,  somewhere  where  I  can  slip  in  &  out  without  disrupting  the  meeting,  the  Sergeant  at  Arms  can  be  such  a  jerk  if  a  fly  farts  during  open  session.....lol

Meetings always start out slow and civil yet end in confusion and frustration.  There is always someone present in  body but absent in mind. 

BERT:  As ugly as I am, no one ever wants to sit near me, so I'll save you plenty of seats to choose from .......

Sit next to me. I'll keep the group on task, but I'll pass sarcastic remarks on napkins under the table.  I enjoy watching the person on my left trying to suppress laughter when bored. 

Roberts Rules of Order are like salt.   A bit in the soup improves it; using too much ruins it.

a camel (bactrian usually)is a horse assembled by committee.....(why,even the spelling of the word shows a mindset of too many trying to add something)

I am blessed in that I work at a company where the meetings ARE two people meeting in the hallway.  No one quite remembers but I think our last 'sales meeting' was about seven years ago.  Our management, unfortunately, gets stuck with attending meetings when large corporate customers decide one in in order and send over a passel of their bureaucrats to 'meet with us'.  What's really hilarious is the inevitable 'tour' which consist of a parade of folks, the most important in the front and the least at the back streaming down the hallway, peering at us as if they were visiting the zoo looking into the cages.  I now know what the monkeys must be thinking as they look at the humans in a real zoo: 'Hey, did you see the one with the enormous.... errrrrrr...."  On second thought, let's NOT discuss what the monkeys may be thinking.  

Is 'shouting over the cubicle walls' considered a meeting?  'Hey, Bryan, have they sent out the email with the new fuel surcharges yet?" "I don't think so.  I haven't seen it".  "Dale?" "Yeah, I talked to somebody in pricing yesterday and they said it's probably going to stay the same". "Good.  Thanks, Dale."  Meeting over............   Way back in my retail days (you don't want to know how long ago) I had one boss who prided himself on 10-14 person meetings which lasted less than 10 minutes.  First: "Is everyone here.?"  Second: "Here are some memos I want you to know about" (reads from them).  Third: "Does anyone have any questions about them?" Fourth: "That's not of any interest to most of the folks here, Bill, so see me after the meeting." Fifth: "Is there anything that we all need to know."  Sixth: "OK. Let's get back to work!"

Some meetings (I'm on a financial advisory board that meets three or four times a year) consist on trying to forge a consensus.  Those unfortunate enough to have served on a jury know how this works.  'Forging a consensus' means browbeating the poor slob who hasn't thought everything through very thoroughly until he throws his hands up in the air and surrenders.  "OK, OK, I'll go along!"  This time-consuming way of silencing the minority is less effective than simply ejecting them from the room and drives everyone holding the majority opinion nuts.  Roberts is handy here.  At some point, if the stubborn refuse to submit, the democratic alternative is employed: calling a question, restating the motion (which no one including the person who made it can remember very well), getting a second, calling for a vote, and FINALLY admitting that unanimity was a foolish quest anyway. (This is called the result).  Usually during this process, someone (usually me) gets a lot of scowls by making a motion that we simply dump all decision-making in the hands of the president and let him do whatever he feels is appropriate.  No one ever seconds this motion :-( 

A true story. As a young buck engineer years ago working at Northwest Airlines, my boss sent me to Long Beach to sit in on a meeting that was to set design specifications for how the industry manages technical data and makes decisions critical to airwortiness on that data. I eagerly accepted and for weeks I kept trying to get my boss to get me up to speed. He never did, with the exception that as I am standing at his office door with one last request for anything...clues...hints...and what he told me was "Paul they are a real tough group of high caliber people, so what ever you say stick to your guns." The only reason I took the next step forward was young and naive. I arrived to the meeting already in progress as I couldn't find the room in the huge McDonnell-Douglas facility. Turns out I was the committee chair and the assistant chairman stood in, in my place. Turns out they were a rough crowd of very opinionated folks and I said not a peep fore three days... except for "you can keep the chair."

Years later I was at another different committee meeting in Washington DC where the Chairman had to step down. Me, being the strongest of opinion of how government can botch things up, now comfortable in my own skin was immediately pushed forward as the new replacement Chairman. Going from opinionated to Chair first meant I was in check, so it appeared. Nice move by the grandfathers of industry. Still fairly young I went to a DC bookstore, of which there are many, and found a used copy of Roberts Rules. It was a pocket version, of which I displayed openly as an "unconcealed weapon" Being of strong opinion and not willing to relinquish them I created a version I called Bob's Rules. All agreed to loosen the top button and relax, giving me the room I needed. I held that Chairmanship for the seven years it took to raise a consensus and pass one rule through the FAA. It is true on must persevere meetings. But persevere them.

And I'll leave you with this: I last night finished the book Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts. A great piece of history and my review will be out soon on my bog cigarroomofbooks. Sparing the details, in one of the authors conclusions was to strike the fundamental difference in democratic rule versus autocratic rule. He sited that although the arduous meetings of the Allies appeared to be less efficient that those of Hitler, those meetings produced a prevailing strategy derived from a grander perspective and participation. Moral of the story: don't dread meetings. Jump in play hard, be a captain or a king...it is the way to make a difference. I can say in marketing...a broad perspective defines a broad market of which to CAPITALIZE on with new ideas. I will also say as heard from the CMO of Dell, blogging as become the cyber version of coalescing, new ideas. An EYE for the obvious?

Having worked both sides of the labor fence, it is my opinion that most meetings are completely useless unless there is an understanding and common goal between both parties. If not, both sides will just do whatever they want, and the company will continue on badly. with morale damaged and both sides pointing fingers at each other. And even if there is a common goal and understanding, the meeting is still useless from a productivity standpoint because a roomfull of people will come to a quick agreement  on the toppings on a pizza, let alone new business/government initiatives.

FOR MEETINGS: "I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake ... which I also keep handy." W C Fields

Unlike the common day-to-day business meeting, my volunteer group meetings have a little bit different attitude. Our attendance is not mandatory. There are no bosses to please or impress. There is no paycheck or job performance review.
They always seem to consist of the same few devoted people who are present regularly and reliably. One learns just who you can count on and who really does care. I would estimate that only about 10% of the people belonging to any one of my organizations actually takes the time to participate in the decision-making meetings. What I also find to be consistently true is that the people criticizing how things are being run are invariably among the other 90%.
Regardless of which rules of order (if any) are followed, I believe the world is ultimately ruled by the people who show up...

Meetings are an annoying piece of business -- after all the others attending aren't interested in your agenda, not while they have the floor for their agenda.
 
Though to get back to yesterday's discussion about schools, along with today's about meetings.....PTA board meetings were a price one had to pay as a parent to get a quality education for their children.

Kindlee, very good.  I like to not say be on time...as though to mark time a phenomona that intrigues me, but to be on purpose a characteristic that excites me.

KINDLEE:  You have hit the nail squarely upon the head ....... And those in the 90% who do not show up, are usually the first ones to bitch and/or assign blame when something goes wrong ... Sorta like Registered Voters who do not exercize their prerogative ......

Kindlee and Mr. Murphy,  your comments seem words to live by:
 
show up and be on purpose
 
all of the meetings I have ever attended would have run much more smoothly had all particpated accordingly!
 
Also, which came first the committee or the meeting?

just34me,

Well they have been workin foer me and so far I ain't dead yet.

Glad to have you at the meeting and in the mix.

I mwould like to make a motion, that we hear more from just34me

But first let me ask is that three for me...

I am thinking 3 of what?
I usually ask for one at a time...is three to many

lets open the floor for discussion.

we can make a decision later...discussions are more fun.

Peter Lake's Rule#1
When attending a meeting, never, ever, make eye contact when the chairman is soliciting for a volunteer to head up a cross functional committee composed of other volunteers who were probably shanghaied because they did make eye contact at their meeting.

Peter Lake's Rule#1-a
Never leave the room when someone is soliciting for volunteers to head up a committee. They'll draft you if you do.

Peter Lake's Rule#3-c/a
If you must have technical folks attend your meeting, just leave a trail of donut crumbs and sprinkles leading to the conference room. You'll be turning away the extras.

Peter Lake's Rule#17-k2
Meeting strategies/agendas are like boxing strategies; they all fly out the window after the first punch.

Enjoy your afternoon. I've got a meeting with the squirrels in my back yard and I've got to get ready for it.

Most ridiculous meeting story...
 
I worked for a small Credit Union who had a member that was incontinent. Every month on the first this member would come to the drive through and deposit his SS check that was ALWAYS soiled, and affectionately dubbed the "pee-pee check". After about six months of being the only teller around to accept the "pee-pee check"--everybody else including the manager somehow disappeared--, I suggested that the manager have the member enroll in direct deposit, because this was not only disgusting, but a health hazzard, and punctuated it with I am not going to handle it any more. The next staff meeting we received "training" on how to accept and handle the "pee-pee check" complete with gloves, bio-hazard envelopes, and sanitation measures for the cylinder that shuttled back and forth from the cars to the teller. Again, I suggested that he be enrolled with direct deposit, and they explained to me that this was just easier. This new proceedure lasted exactly two months, and the company that processed our proof checks refused to accept the "pee-pee check" anymore, and in fact sent the check back to us the second month unprocessed. So this "easier" solution resulted in the member having to request a replacement SS check AND the manager having to explain why we couldn't accept the check. They did enroll him in direct deposit at the time though...

Quite some time ago I left the world of meetings that are required by employers for the world of home management.  The "three" are the ones I mostly manage.  With school, doctors, dentists, 29+ teachers, etc. my co-chair and I decided that three kids was all we could juggle. 
I was sorry to be absent for yesterdays discussion as we deal in specialized educational experiences for each.  Oldest is "highly gifted" and accelerated without having to skip a grade with the 45 others who can do work at twice the grade level but not sustain the social pressures of skipping a grade or two.  He finishes his homework at school.  Middle is kenetic, active, distracted but still the most disciplined student.  Third is autisic as I mentioned a post or so ago on the camera page.  He loves homework due to self-directed play being a struggle and his brain being busy.
I did post a picture.  This is a new computer and my favorite pictures are now to be sorted off other drives and disks.
 
Thanks for asking.  Hope it wasn't more than my alloted time.

Welcome, just34me. It's wonderful to have you here. The fawns are beautiful. There were just34me2.

Mr. Lake,
 
I do hope you're loading your camera.
 

Paul Murphy, One needs to believe in a purpose to "be on purpose", I suspect.

Thank you.  Such a warm virtual welcome!  Looking forward to more chatting.  Lovely to have "met" you.

And finally, on topic...doesn't a society founded on rights of petition, assembly and association logically foster meetings?  As for Mr. Robert no meeting more likely to drive you to find a better path than a church meeting. 

For years it has been one of the stated goals of technology that it would soon enable the elimination of travel to attend meetings in a different location. To some degree, it has accomplished that, but there is still much lost in the translation.

What technology can't capture however is often the most important part of a critical meeting ..... that being the value of looking someone in the eye after having asked a tough question. In my experiences, even though video conferencing has greatly improved; it still can't capture the heat of the moment, the emotions of the room, and the visual cues of those participants who are out of the camera's path.

Sometimes, the most important part of a meeting takes place out in the hallway in the form of side-conversations between key players. It often leads to agreements that may not otherwise be achieved and it also gives you a chance to allow someone with a opposing or in some cases, just flat-out wrong argument, to save face which lends itself to better ongoing relationships.

My favorite such meeting took place out on a hotel fire escape with the Union's bargaining agent..... I felt like a character from a Robert Ludlum novel.... but it worked.

We always had sets of formal meeting rules that were usually bent to the point of breaking, if not being completely shattered but there was usually one of us mature enough to keep a cool head a nudge us back on track.

I remember one meeting where I wasn't quite able to keep the demons in my head at bay when it was obvious that the meeting has turned into a peeing contest. I stood up, calmly gathered my papers and as I walked out the door I asked them to call me back when they were serious about achieving the objective. I went to the cafeteria and was having cup of a coffee-like substance when someone found me fifteen minutes later and invited me back. It was lke night and day... and I only had to do it once to establish a reputation.

Oh well........ that was then and this is now and I'm gonna stay in it. It's back to the squirrels for me.

Meeting adjourned...... peace out

just34me, Nice to see you here again.  Glad you came back.

One of the worst aspects of meetings is that a solution is proferred, discussed, and then all but one person agrees to go that way.... BUT then discussion is re-opened and another solution is proferred, discussed and all but one (another) person agrees to go THAT way... and so it goes, solution after solution, almost-agreement after almost-agreement....  Finally the meeting breaks up and I can remember every single solution that was discussed and almost agreed to.  The problem is that I can't remember the sequence.... and the last solution discussed is the one that everyone else seems to remember as being the one adopted as the 'real solution' that was agreed upon.  Me -- I just have a mush of solutions floating around in my head with no clue as to which one is The One.  Am I the only one cursed this way????

I sure wish I had mastered shorthand, because then (given a couple of hours) I could organize and summarize the results in a couple of concise paragraphs.  (Yes, I CAN be concise ;-)

Meetings are a lot like high school classes... one is tempted to bring a book, sit WAY in the back, and read something that's cogent, structured, intelligen, and filled with facts instead of opinion.....  Unfortunately the invention of the conference table makes this solution very difficult.

OK,  OK,  I'm  sorry  I'm  late.....I  noticed  right  away  that  apparently  there  was  a  wet  cleanup  in  aisle  #1,  and  I  was  wondering  if  it  happened  to  be  blood.....

Finished the carpool, in the rain.  A school bus MET a minivan on a two lane road.  There must have been blood.  Some meetings can ruin more than your day. 
 
As to the question of the right solution posed by Doc Nolan, I prefer action to talk of solutions.  Sort of the it's easier to correct course on a moving vehicle than a parked one.

Just34me:   Sorry  your  day  was  tainted  by  confrontation  with  what  may  have  been  a   serious  accident.   Starting  now,  commercial  airliners  are  going  to  have  to   be  built  with  either  airbags   {where  the  seat  confronts  a  bulkhead}  or  the  back  of  the  seat  in  front  of  the  passenger  must  be  padded  to  provide  equivalent  resistance  to  impact.  It  seems  that  we  should  do  no  less  for  our  children,  many  of  whom  go  to  school  in  a  bus,  which  basically  is  a  longbed  heavy  truck  with  a  horizontal  metal  box,  bench  seats,  and  several   emergency  exits.
 
I  look  for  Jalopkin,  remembering  that  his  willingness  to  freely  share  what  is on  his  mind  regardless  of  concerns  about  political  correctness,  and  see  that  he  has  been  silent  since  05;08.    Some  may  innocently  think  that  he  is  either  preoccupied   elsewhere  or  contemplating  his  next  post......I,  however,  am  fully  confident  that  he  is  actually  RELOADING.....lol
 
Paul  Murphy:   You  have  been  AWOL  for  quite  some  time,  so  my  suggestion  is  that  you  come  up  with  a  verifiable  valid  excuse,  coupled  with  a  sincere  apology.   Please  spare  me  with  the  "I  got  swamped  at  work"  line,   we  both  know  that  this  website  is  available  worldwide  on  streaming  broadband  or  satellite  internet,   AND  that  it  is  actually  thereaputic  to  take  occasional  breaks  from  traditional  work  to  interact  with  virtual  friends  who  actually  HELP  our  abilities  to  think   clearly.....

Kindlee I'll go with you on a purposeful meeting.  That would be kind of like haveing an agenda that makes sense.  Being on purpose could be about making the meeting purposeful, or purposefully making it plain that the meeting is no longer of value to any of the attendees and therefore, purposfully change the venue to the park, or tavern depending on the time of day.  Under Bob' rule it would go like thisMe:  this meeting is not accomplishing anything, lets go to teh park for a dog and a sodaothers:  I don't like hotdogsme:  wait here til we come back or until the meeting is over. me in the park:  its amazing how much agreement can be found in a hotdog.
  

Bert: All I can say is BUSTED.  You took my only excuse away.  So let me leave you with what my wrestling coach use to say to close every pre match pep talk.  Men when you came back down here (the locker room) I don't want to hear excuses for losing, I want to hear reasons for winning.  Does that get me off the hook?

Paul,  now  I  am  confronted  with  Hobson's  Choice.   If  I  say  you  AREN'T  off  the  hook,  I  sound  unreasonable,  and  don't  reward  your   creative  response.   If  I  say  you  ARE  off  the  hook,  then  the  risk  is  that  you  will  only  be  what's  left  of  a  vapor  trail  in  the  sky,  pointing  away  from  us.   Don't  be  a  stranger,  OK?  

Meetings that have an "audience" have to be the worst, most unproductive kinds of meetings.  Suddenly everyone is on stage, actors in a scriptless play, without a final act (there's the rub), and there's chest thumping, and wailing, and shouting, and standing up and sitting downs, huffy exits followed by noisy re-entrances -- lord, deliver me from such drama disguised as a meeting.
 
For 7 years my husband sat as chairman of the board of trustees of a college. The meetings were "open" -- the public shuffled in to the gallery, and the board members took their seats (all but one, the "hippie" of the tie wearing group, he wore sandals that squeaked, he was always late), the college president and the (husband) chairman and Other Officers took their seats (ah, the tension), then the Greeting and the banging of the gavel, and all hell broke loose.  For the benefit of the public, who loved it.  
 
It was like roller derby and football played simultaneously, every fourth Thursday night, 8:00 pm, and it could go on until 11:30 or midnight, since everyone needed to be heard, for a quote in the papers in the morning, and I sat through many of these spectacles, and if it wasn't for Robert's Rules there would have been no rules at all, all the gloves were off 5 minutes after 8.
 
I think Robert's Rules of Order is horribly boring to read, and I did read it so I could quiz my husband on every single rule and sub rule, he wasn't going to go in there unprepared.  And he wasn't and while he was chairman, it was a beautiful thing, to see one of Robert's rules pulled out of the many and applied judiciously and with a certain cunning.
 
7 years was enough of Robert and his rules and the college and the public and the board, and before he'd finished his last term, we moved out of the county, and one of the rules (not Robert's tho) said the chairman had to reside in the county in order to be elected to office (alas), and so we escaped.
 
To think that people will actually sell their homes and move miles and miles away to escape meetings says a lot about what those people think of meetings.  While Robert's rules do go to keeping the order, there are no rules in place that require the particpants to behave anything other than the elected officials that they are...a little bit of power, an audience, and a stage and they're off and running in every sense of the word.
 
I did learn to knit then, though.  Lots of socks and mittens and caps resulted from all those hours in the gallery watching and listening to the board members go at each other, and show off for the public.  Which made them happy, which made the audience happy, and me, oblivious, and finishing off the toe of a sock, well, I was happy too. 
 
There's nothing like a productive meeting to make everyone happy all around.
 
 
 
 

It just hit me!  Meetings are (usually) just like Peterman's Eye (just a lot less fun).  Everyone comes to the meeting with their own ideas and everyone leaves with their own ideas -- just not always the same ones as he/she entered with.  A lot of the discussions are off topic.  Folks wander in and wander out.  Some people research stuff on their computers while others talk.  Several individuals agree on answers, but none of these is ever adopted since not everyone is listening and no one quite agrees on the objectives of the meeting.  (Agendae are seldom read; never followed!).  Personal chats take place "on the side".  Obscure references to previous meetings are made and occassionally (but only occassionally) someone asks, 'What's he talking about and what does it have to do with anything?'.  YEP, the only difference is that here we aren't under that foolish constraint/requirement to acheive something.  The meeting is the purpose of the meeting!  Ha!  THAT's the problem with most RL meetings:  they have objectives!  Foolish constraint!!!!!

BERT:  You have confirmed once again, the Axiom that says, "Even a Blind Hog Finds An Acorn Every Now and Then ..."

So it's the sausage making meetings that are as ugly as sausage making itself.  We seem to support the non-profit meeting venues of on-line gathering, some of us have favorite pubs, bars, restaurants.  The informal flow of ideas versus someone elses agenda or for profit scheme.
 
 

As an out of work Senior Executive, I have realized that meetings have destroyed my spirit, cramped my legs, eaten my best ideas, trampled on my sense of time, wallowed me in politics, wrinkled my clothes, given me an ulcer, afflicted me with varicose veins from having my legs crossed for so long and made me do immense calculations on how many hours of my life have been wasted sitting in a board room while moderately stupid individuals attempt to one up each other trying to save their meager existence by forcing their over worked, stolen ideas down other's throats. Do I sound bitter?

Twalker:   Welcome,  new  virtual  friend.    The  only  thing  that  I  challenge  about  your  post  is  the  use  of  the  adjective  "moderately"  to  modify  the  noun  "stupid."   Responding  to  your  question,  which  I  will  treat  as  non-rhetorical,   the  answer  is  "Sure,  you  sound  bitter,  but  if  your  categorization  of  what  happened  is  accurate,  you  SHOULD  sound  bitter."

When you're at a meeting and they need a volunteer, tell he chairperson how much the guy on your left wants to do the job but hates to toot his own horn.  Make sure to say its confidential.  Works every time! 

The worst meetings that I have ever attended  are the ones where every other person opens a copy of Roberts Rules of Order and reads some time consuming detail.

I think we should randomly pick fifteen participants, equip them with different agendas, no rules of order, and then lock them in a room until they come up with something usefull.....towards solving anything.

I always imagined having a meeting similar to the ones that the evil guys in the James Bond movies always seemed to have so that when someone says something dopey or off topic; I just push a button and the floor opens up beneath the chair and they are plunged into a shark tank.

I think I'll bring a couple packs of hotdogs (which have been known to kill sharks) into meetings with PL...on the off-chance (chance?) that I am off topic or dopey.

Penn - Not to worry.  You can be in charge of the "swimmin' with the fishes" button. 

Meetings are good for: reading the newest VOGUE or NEW YORKER or novel or the back of a frito bag, sorting coupons,contemplating purchases you would love to make, what you will have for dinner that night, how much administration is the ultimate evil, having popcorn & sharing, feeling bitter that your precious time is being wasted on nothing, writing letters, or just sitting like a zombie & wishing the world would end.
 
Or contemplating corndogs w/ mustard necklaces..... the first boy you ever kissed, what it feltl ike to slow dance for the first time, where you would love to travel, your forever love, movies you want to see, family problems, your animals, accessories,bbq, love,the scene in "Sex, lies, & videotape" where Andie Mcdowell is talking to james Spader about how he has profoundly changed her life, your best friend, what to get your sweetheart for Christmas & counting down the minutes until the meeting is over.

Love it Bebe!

MEETING IN THE CLUB CAR.....BRING ALL YOUR WORK...YOU WILL BE GRADED ON COMPOSURE.....AND, YOU MUST RAISE YOUR LITTLE FINGER WHEN HOLDING YOUR GLASS

I never go to a meeting unless I have arranged for a confederate to page me or call my cell phone no later than ten minutes after it starts.

Some of my very best doodles filled the white spaces of my meeting handouts. When I ran out of white spaces I would then fill in all of the b's, d's o's, O's and 8's ..... especially handy during financial forecasting and budget meetings........ almost made those day-long meetings worth it............................................................... not.


Peace out  
p.s., I only lost a toe in the shark tank.

did you call a.....toe truck?

PENN- thank you.
KSS- you have a profession where you are treated like an adult- how cool. Wednesdays we stay after for a COMPLETELY POINTLESS 11/2 hour meeting & you would be so surprised how many people leave at noon for an "appointment" or find themselves ill that day.
PL- I totally forgot doodling- it is the most soothing thing. I too love making 8's- I find it very soothing. Also hearts.

BTW: New here. Greetings, all.

BEBE:  You should watch the 1936 Version of Mr. Deeds Goes To Town ....... With Gary Cooper and Jean Arthur .......