A Point of View: In defence of obscure words

I knew a man who had such a command of words that he could tell you to go to Hades and make you look forward to the trip.

When I hear teenagers talk, I sometimes get the idea that most words are obscure.

Welcome, Villagers, to the world of Luciferous Logolepsy.

May it lead you into and then out of words of obscurity.

eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation

lotlot:  It just seems that way because English has not been taught, nor spoken in this country for over sixty years ....... but, we got EBONICS and Spanglish being taught at all levels, and we have learned to wear our Hats sideways, like Rooty Kazooty and to have the crack of our asses showing with our pants almost falling off ....... and most of us have grown old enough to Vote .......
 
Is it any wonder .......

Who's afraid of Virginia Wolff? A rhetorical question, but nevertheless a relevant one.....

In the beginning was the Word ..... and I can't for life of me choose one. Maybe when I'm more awake.

lotlot~ teenage speak is designed to exculde adults.
I snarl at the TV frequently because of words; some woman just said "Frmittyly" I think that means 'from Italy' - hahaha! some chef just said "mask a pony" - words fail me.

Supercalafragalisticexpialidotious! (Mary Poppins)

I'm relying on paolos to provide the music.

As an only child, often handed a book or magazine to go off and be "seen and not heard," my vocabulary was unwieldy amongst my peers who never failed to call me out on it. Nonetheless I persisted in my love of the English language and over the years I have been amused and gratified as I hear those around me (children, staff, etc)enlarge their own vocabularies.

Thank you

When my kids were at home they would say that they could measure the extent of my anger by the length of the words used. My voice would get lower and the words would get longer. They would look at each other fearfully and say maybe they should get the dictionary to see just how much trouble they're in since even Jenn, the oldest, didn't know.

The problem, my dear Villagers, is not what they are teaching, for they are not teaching Ebonics or Spanglish or Chinglish or anything, but what they are not teaching.  Grammar has not been taught in decades.  In their wisdom, the education folks decided that could be absorbed through reading!  Nor do they teach vocabulary for the same "reason."  My daughter who graduated from one of the country's finest high schools in 2007 does not write as well as she should - and she knows why.  The latest demise is penmanship.  They no longer teach longhand.  After all, everyone uses a computer or some other device.  Texting is in; handwritten notes are out.  (How many of the young know home to use a semicolon, much less what it is?)  The other real culprit is the advertising world which asks such absurdities as, "What do you want, good grammar or good taste?", as though the two were mutually exclusive.  There has never been an advertising copy writer who could not simplify a sentence to its basic idiocity or mangle words to marginal meaningfulness - "Qualcare?"  I remember my Grandmother who got what education was offered where her family lived (eight years, to her regret) and read every day of her life, saying that she would redd up the dishes.  I was certain she had not misspoken, so I looked it up (stuidents do not use dictionaries any more).  It means, "to tidy up."  And so, it is now part of my family's vocabulary.  So we live in a world where homonyms are interchangeacble, and apostrophes may be imaginatively if incorrectly used.  As our vocabulary disappears to that used on television and advertising, the language that was once no for its munificient vocabulary which could express shades of meaning impossible in other languages becomes that of the simpleton.  What a pity.  It is all reminiscent of the essay at the end of George Orwell's 1984.  (Oh yes, when did book titles start to be placed within quotation marks instead of being italicized?  Was it for the convenience of web page authors?)

Sorry for the typographical errors.  I should proofread before copying.
The problem, my dear Villagers, is not what they are teaching, for they are not teaching Ebonics or Spanglish or Chinglish or anything, but what they are not teaching.  Grammar has not been taught in decades.  In their wisdom, the education folks decided that could be absorbed through reading!  Nor do they teach vocabulary for the same "reason."  My daughter who graduated from one of the country's finest high schools in 2007 does not write as well as she should - and she knows why.  The latest demise is penmanship.  They no longer teach longhand.  After all, everyone uses a computer or some other device.  Texting is in; handwritten notes are out.  (How many of the young know how to use a semicolon, much less what it is?)  The other real culprit is the advertising world which asks such absurdities as, "What do you want, good grammar or good taste?", as though the two were mutually exclusive.  There has never been an advertising copy writer who could not simplify a sentence to its basic idiocity or mangle words to marginal meaningfulness - "Qualcare?"  I remember my Grandmother who got what education was offered where her family lived (eight years, to her regret) and read every day of her life, saying that she would redd up the dishes.  I was certain she had not misspoken, so I looked it up (stuidents do not use dictionaries any more).  It means, "to tidy up."  And so, it is now part of my family's vocabulary.  So we live in a world where homonyms are interchangeacble, and apostrophes may be imaginatively if incorrectly used.  As our vocabulary disappears to that used on television and advertising, the language that was once known for its munificient vocabulary which could express shades of meaning impossible in other languages becomes that of the simpleton.  What a pity.  It is all reminiscent of the essay at the end of George Orwell's 1984.  (Oh yes, when did book titles start to be placed within quotation marks instead of being italicized?  Was it for the convenience of web page authors?)

It is interesting how rare it is that English lacks shades of meaning.  Certinly the Eskimow has more words for "snow," but by and large English does exceedingly well.  The only one that comes to mind is "hot" as applied to food, whether one refers to temperature or spiciness.  The Spanish do better with caliente and picante.  They, on the other hand, cannot say "Good Evening."  For some reason, they go from "Good Afternoon (Buenas Tardes)" to "Good Night (Buenas Noches)".  Anyone remember reading an essay by William F. Buckley of National Review fame?  Whether his political philosophy suited you or not, his essays were an adventure in vocabulary; I always learned three or four new words.  Since newspapers have fired most of their senior editors - the ones who maintained the quality of the articles - we now have the Washington Post full of misspellings, typos, general bad grammar, and a paucity of vocabulary.  We no longer perorate; we gibber.  Alas.

It's interesting that we develop and learn the hardest feats of all during the first few years of our lives.....and we do it on our own and no one can take away the challenges involved.  We learn to walk.....we fall down a lot and get bumps and bruises.  We learn to talk.....syllables, words, phrases, sentences...clarity of expressions to communicate our needs/wants.    No one can 'dumb' that down.  But as soon as we accomplish all of those milestones suddenly everyone is anxious to make learning easier for us.  Oh, they encouraged, they protected.....but they could not lessen the triumphs of those first on our own experiences.    We forget that we came into the world well equipped to deal with most of it.  And we do well until we get to those communal learning sessions where it's not "nice" to know all the answers or to be better at something than our peers.       We take away the noble challenges in life only for children to replace them with ignoble ones..........Difficulty is percieved negatively rather than a challenge to find another way......which children will do in play situations, or as they grow older, ways around the system.            No one who contributes on this site is afraid of words or percieves some words as too difficult.  I'm sure many play word games and do crosswords.....But the author is correct in that we have too many lazies out there who complain about difficult words.                   Reverse snobbism at play.....I'm as good as you are, so don't be usin' those $10 words with me........

LYNN You happened upon a particular pet peeve of mine--the lack of precision in the use of our vocabulary. Specifically the word "hot." If tell you something is hot I am referring to the temperature, not if it is spicy (picante) or good looking (she is so Hot). And when misunderstandings occur due to improper or improvisational use of words and I say "Well now we're talking semantics," I don't think anyone has ever known what I meant. Yes. This Site is an absolute pleasure!

While I agree that for most young people language is something to slaughter. Their speech and writing are just appalling. Spelling isn't even considered. However, the first thought that came to my mind were the words that seem to be out of use: thank you, may I? While we were encouraged to look words up in the dictionary, we find that we rarely know what kids are saying. Teachers in the upper grades, in an effort to appear "cool" or "with it" use the language of the teens. We've legitimized it by giving it a name. I was taught by my mother that to speak well was to command respect. I still find that to be true.

Lynn~ is a semicolon where you wake up from a nasty operation with a colostomy bag attached to your stomach wall?

Hazel - A great big laugh for us who got too serious.

MISS CAROL:  Kudos on your Comment, just above .......
 
LYNN:   I don't know what part of the Planet you are on, but down here in The South, and especially in Texas ... there have been numerous challenges - some in Court(s) - over our School Districts being mandated to teach Ebonics, and the Callo of the Latinos in our Public Schools ... it rages on still, in some places ... (The Group that we have gotten the least flap from has been the Cubans, who have learned to, and worked at, respecting their Heritage while becoming Americans, Legally ...) Don't know how you could have missed it all, from the late 70's on .......
 
"OCEANSPRAY ....... WISE UP"
Zora Lampert  1975

Besides what isn't being learned in school as everyone has mentioned it isn't being learned at home.  Dinner in our house as my daughters were growing up was at the dinning room table with the good dishes and the good silver, and we talked.  Class work and homework were discussed which did not mean the adults did the work for the student; it meant that all three learned, one from the other.   Often important local or even national and international news was part of the discussion.  Improper English was gentely corrected, for example who and whom.  
 
For many this is no longer the case.  One child has soccor, another is due at scouts and dinner is eaten in turns at the kitchen bar as mom or dad can dish it up to whomever is next in line.  The lack of interactive conversation has gone by the wayside and so has home learning to reinforce or augment school learning    

RUSTY You are correct. I would never tolerate bad grammar in my kitchen and had an early lesson when one young man would use the word "ain't" I would say "Oh James for heaven's sakes." One day he picked up the phone to call his mother and said "Hey Ma, I ain't coming." I realized in that moment that it was not just a case of teenage laziness but rather the lack of any home guidance.. By the way if you spoke with him today you would think he had the highest of educations. He speaks beautifully. I am very proud of him. He figured out that it did indeed make a difference.

HAZEL Very funny!

Actually, Jalopkin, I am in the Mid-Atlantic area.  Ebonics never caught on here; the area is too well educated, and parents would not allow that garbage.  Unfortunately, the ignorance and laziness manifested differently in the dropping of orthography, penmanship, grammar, etc.  As my mother (who taught remedial English at Michigan State) pointed out, educators are (1) lazy and (2) fond of fads, particularly if they feed the laziness.  Hence, reading tends to veer away from phonetics which is the ONLY real way to teach reading.  Despite the miriad names ("Whole Language" most  recently) you are either teaching phonetics or you are teaching memorization.  The latter is easier to teach; it requires less effort.  My daughter whose reading was rescued by Harry Potter was taught that guessing was acceptable.  Yuck!  She still does not read as fast or easily as her brother who is 12 years older and learned phonetics.  There are schools in this area that are bilingual, but they are rigorous and demanding.  Learning to speak of physics in Spanish is an accomplishment.  You must understand both.  The emphasis here is for non-English speakers to learn the language rapidly and well.  Knowledge of Standard English is a requirement for professional success.  Period.  You must be able to communicate with writing and speech or, to be blunt, your boss will not have the foggiest what you are accomplishing and will evaluate you accordingly.  Bravo for law suits against Ebonics all the other ways that the teaching profession has of keeping the underlings in their place.  It is an odd sort of liberal discrimination.  Hoisted by their own petard, no doubt.

When I say this area is well educated, I am not boasting idly.  Arlington has the highest level of education in the entire country, and Falls Church which is adjacent is number three.  The second best educated area is San Jose in Silicon Valley.  In all three areas, the average education is a Master's degree.  The areas abound with people whose professions are highly technical.  And their demands for their children is straightforward, demanding and unrelenting.  Most high schools now have an International Baccalaureate Program and some Advanced Placement courses, though the latter is diminishing.  My daughter said that her high school was more demanding than college, though she graduated from the College of William and Mary which is a fine and rigorous school.  If parents are not involved and vocal, educators will respond in kind.

A few other thoughts.  I think much of our linguistic demise can be attributed to television and the drivel the networks foist on the airwaves.  I do not watch television except on very rare circumstances.  The event must clearly have historical impact (the funerals of Winston Churchill and Princess Diana come to mind).  On rare occasion I have had to watch some of a network drama and I am appalled at how those continue to decline and diminish in quality.  Network news is no longer news; it is either propoganda of the basest sort (Fox) or soundbits and mindlessness (the old networks).  Even CNN which used to have some quality and impartiality simply chases the latest sensationalism.  Give them a minor accident, and they can spend a week.  Television has so much failed its potential that it has no value.  MSNBC is not news; it is an endless series of editorials.  And so on.
The newspapers seem to be less biased in the past, but that seems to be because such pointed focus is beyond their capabilities.  My high school newspaper was at times better written than today's blather.  Then again, most will probably disappear before long.  Certainly the Washington Post and the Dallas Morning News are two examples (I was recently in Dalls for my aunt's funeral and to take care of her estate).  We may be left with the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times and the Christian Science Monitor.  My aunt had a Time magazine and its quality is not much better.  I undertand that U.S. News and World Report is long gone.
That leaves the Internet which, I understand, is about two-thirds pornography.  It does let one read 10 second pieces on current events - or watch a Youtube amusement about the same.  'Nuff said.

Goodness! From the dismal report expressed herein, I'm thinking the end of communication is nigh....pish posh I say. In the past, I have expressed an original thought : There were genius level thinkers befor there was a spoken word, OR a written record.  Do not misunderstand, I am not talking rocket science, but the introduction of new and unfamiliar thoughts. There had to be a way to express these, and indeed,share for later generations,there being a very short and hazerdous life term, not always allowing elders to pass on information.My point being the hesitancy to grasp new ways of communication; imagine the learning of a language to replace the "grunts" that had served so well to point out danger,food,mates,shelter.....I think adaption is a strength, and adoption, learning to use the new forms of language,no matter how de-evolutiion they seem, also happen to be the recognized words of mass communication. (Web Master a prime example)

Great comments! I love our language and try to keep an ear ouut for new words. I learned two this week  One from one of our own ~ Autodidact- aelf taught person; the second Tuefelhunde-German for the title Devil Dogs given to U. S. Marines at the Battle of Belleau Wood in WW I. I also heard the the story of the child who upon arrival at school whispered in her teacher's ear " Mrs. Hall, I think there's a dead cat out on the sidewalk" Teacher: "Hone! why do you think the cat is dead?"Child: "I pissed in its ear and it didn't move", "Teacher: How did you do that, sweetheart?' Child: " I touched it with my foot and it didn't move so I leaned over and went pssst in its ear and it still didn't move."

I hope James knows how much her owes to your caring,  ChefDeb.
 
All the home attention with big words explained not omitted is what allowed my two year old to tell a freind who commented on her ability to speak that she was "precocious."  She had been a part of the dinner table conversations as soon as she could sit in the highchair.  When tested for entering first grade at the private school her sisters were attending she passed the vocabulary test at the sixth grade level.  I think she is good proof that even the very young learn from what they hear around them.

Television has failed, Lynn, because no one demands better.  Those that would either turn it off or resort to accepting the drivel.

When I was in High School in the mid 90's I had to take an English class. So I took Grammar. It's sad when the Exchange student from Thailand knows more about the use of English Grammar than the College Educated Teacher. Thank Goodness for Pai because I would have not graduated without her help & knowledge.

this discussion reminds me of the scene in Auntie Mame where she gives Patrick a pad & paper & has him write down all the words he doesn't know.

Mame Dennis: Well, now, uh, read me all the words you don't understand.

Patrick Dennis: Libido, inferiority complex, stinko, blotto, free love, bathtub gin, monkey glands, Neurotic, heterosexual..., Karl Marx... is he one of the Marx Brothers?

Mame Dennis: Oh, my my my my, what an eager little mind.
You won't need some of these words for months and months.

RINGS! thank you so much for reminding me of one of my favorite movies as well as characters....and Agnes Gooch!! She was soooo funny~

RUSTY--yes James does realize it, although it did take a while! He is Executive Chef at a very high end restaurant and every year I have a birthday feast that is beyond belief! In addition, he is very kind to me in his bio on their website. I am so proud of him my children are jealous!

Does anyone else see the dictionary shown above as a face with its tongue sticking out at us?

YES!, Andy~, now that'cha mention it....(does writing in 'dialog fashion' enter our conversation here?

humility.......

And now it's almost dinner time and we haven't switched over to food.  With a nod to the topic:  baste, saute, bake, broil, sear, mix, stir....................taste.

The clicking dialects still get their point across. Billions of people read write talk gesture text email you tube dance send smoke signals semaphore telegraph pony express make love and generally communicate in more & often in better ways than ever before. Is pop culture the guiding light of the day? Possibly. I find more people are exposed to more ways than ever and it would be crazy to talk to a cowboy or a farmer or a construction worker or a native in an Amazon jungle in a way that was condescending or overly complicated. I love straight talk and looking someone in the eye but also philosophical discussions online. I guess why does anything have to be this that or the other. J Peterman is about wearing the world and when I get my rare chances to be on a secluded beach or on a paddleboard I speak an unwritten language called soul.

I suspected the dictionary was turned to the page featuring a hologram of a farsighted (left glasses on top) red tongued linguisticsaurus.

Phew! Remember I'm 5 hours ahead of most of you. Just got in from having dinner with friends. My stomach aches from too much food and too much laughing.

To quote a favorite poet, The reader's first and simplest test of an author will be to look for words that do not function, that contribute nothing to the meaning or that distract from what is most important.  I often enjoy the use of words that are obscure, archaic, nebulous or arcane for the sake of the word.  The word must contribute to the communication. There is no shame in turning to a lexicon to ferret out the intent of the author.  To use multisyllabic words to one up your reader is counter productive.  Humility...I like that.

Miss Haze, Dame Julie Andrews was interviewed this week on a local morning radio show.  The interviewer was admittedly so nervous she just about puked.  Effective communication, but not the choice of words I would have used with a Dame.  Julie Andrews was, as expected, very gracious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-Z0SSyUcw

Thanks for the song, paolos~ it's splendidly silly. I'm not sure if I'm right in saying that was the first film where they combined animated film with 'normal' film. I took my little sister to see it at the cinema and she was enchanted.

The tele continues to amuse me. Cod on tape?

Not only content but delivery. A curious vocal pattern has crept into the speech of young adult women who speak American English: low, creaky vibrations, also called vocal fry. "Pop singers slip vocal fry into their music as a way to reach low notes and add style. Now, a new study of young women in New York state shows that the same guttural vibration—once considered a speech disorder—has become a language fad."

Tommy ~ I do like your philosophy -- even if after two glasses of wine I'm having trouble spelling it.

Enough of this being awake stuff, I'm off to my duvet. Nose da, dear people. x

Ha ha! Nos da!!!!!!

Find me a bad teacher, Lynne, and I'll show you a member of the Union.  Union members don't have to try to keep their jobs because they have tenure.  They can coast, and many do. Just another excellent reason to rid the workplaces of the unions, which are out of date, and are self serving.    ....When a teacher faces the same risks and threats and competition as the rest of the working world, when they have to worry about keeping their jobs - quality will improve.     I am in no way referring to BEBE who I love. And admire.  And is an example of the kind of teacher we all want our kids to have...

Lynn without an 'e' -  apologies Lynn.

Andy- In vino veritas and a language all its own.

TT ~ And as I tell my husband, who, even though he has other fine attributes, does not generally drink, he has no idea how good I look if he would...drink that is.

A wonderful day..................a festival in town w/ food, music, & art....................a loverly day....................................
 
LYNN.......................wow, I just this minute got a chance to read the EYE..........your 12:34, "Educators are lazy," what a busy little man you have been type, type, typing away..................you are so enormously interested in words.....................look up the word jack*ss in the dictionary.......................I bet it will ring a bell............................
 
PARK.......................thank you many times........................coming from you it means a whole heckuva lot, more than you know...................

er, ah, at some point, most all here, had union teachers...that's why we can read the words here, and write the words here....when did unions become a bad word? when we still had slave labor? no weekends? no pensions?   jus' sayin'    (if unions are what makes bad teachers, then it stands to reason  spoons are what makes people fat)

Lynn - I am sure I was never lazy as I tried to instill correct grammar and compostition skills in my students, and I surely did not follow the fads. I was still teaching parts of speech, parts of a sentence, and relationships within clauses with conjunctive adverbs by showing diagramming the sentences on the board for students to have a visual of the structure....even in 2004 the year I retired. I never bought the fad of "descriptive" grammar with a mere artistic drawing of an arrow over from one word to another in place of learning the correct names of modifiers. I dare say many of us who learned English the traditional way, did such graphics as diagrams for instruction.
 
. However, the crop of new English teachers coming out of college now is another story. I had several student teachers, interns, who simply did not know and had not been taught correct grammar. They were products of colleges that followed "fads" in dismissing the importance of naming, constructing, and destructing sentence parts. Therefore, they came to intern in my classes without a shred of information to share with the students in grammar or composition. I was surprised and appalled. I tried to teach them in the 6 weeks I had them under my wings. Most of them thought teaching English was only about discussing literature. Having no depth of knowledge themselves, they saw no value in trying to pass on grammatical instruction. "Sounds right" was their motto and rule book.
The "Language Experience" fad was their entire stock of information.
 
I love words, and enjoyed teaching Advanced Grammar a few years in one high school. It was a class devoted to preparing students to score well on the SAT. We taught the 2,000 words one needs to know to do well on the SAT, and analogies for a semester. The teacher tends to learn most of those words as well. I loved it. (Anyone ever play the Free Rice game on the computer? The more words you can define, the more rice you donate.)

ooops, too many ssss's  in that last post....spoons make.....unions make...

Yesterday's topic: The obscure.

Today's topic: The absurd.