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Our History

February 23, 2012

The odds were against him.

It was, after all, not 2012, but 1870.

In a state not known, at the time, for its relationship with African Americans.

On this date in 1870, when Congress readmitted Mississippi to the Union, nine years after the state had seceded to join the Confederacy, Hiram Rhodes Revels, a minister from Natchez, became the first African-American to be elected to the Senate. 

The election, as you might imagine, didn't go down that easy.

Southern Democrats cited the Dred Scott Decision arguing that no black man was a citizen before the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 and therefore ineligible.

But common sense, and Revels prevailed, and on the floor of the US Senate, he spoke for compromise, moderation, and racial equality.

In his first speech to the Senate on March 16, 1870, he urged reinstatement of the black legislators of the Georgia General Assembly who had been illegally ousted: 

"I maintain that the past record of my race is a true index of the feelings which today animate them. They aim not to elevate themselves by sacrificing one single interest of their white fellow citizens."

Revels is on a list of 100 Greatest African Americans and their contributions, in difficult times, should be honored and celebrated.

Not just this month during Black History Month.

But every month.

Maybe one day it'll simply be American history, without regard to the color of your skin.

J. Peterman

 

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Under Construction: Design Stuff & Member Commenting - Changes Soon.
69 Members’ Opinions
February 23, 2012 8:26 AM
28471 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Lynn830 said...

I find it odd that no one has commented on this topic though it is 8:15 AM EST.  What's up?  I would note that the history of this country and that of most democracies has been to gradually enlarge the electorate and move away from artificial distinctions of "us" and "them."  I shudder to think how many geniuses have been squashed because their ancestors were from Africa or because they were female or some other silliness which was held to with a cruel intensity.  I wonder what might have come to pass: Might we already have a cure for cancer?  Might we have had those in the political arena that could move this world from an insanity of state violence to genuine peace?  Over 56 thousand Americans who served with me in Vietnam did not come home, and to what avail?  We execute dozens of people and stuff over a million others in prisons and jails, doing little or nothing to reclaim those lives and move them to some good.  We have a war on drugs that has failed, and spend little on a genuine fix of the problem, addressing those who have the disease of addiction.  If you still think addiction is a problem ofmoral strength, then you need to read the new definition of addiction promulgated by the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) in August 2011 [http://www.asam.org/for-the-public/definition-of-addiction].  Enough!  As Mahatma Gandhi said, "You must be the change you want in the world."

February 23, 2012 8:51 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

LYNN I agree with you about the unusual aspect of the late start. I have been contemplating the topic for several hours, and I find that it leads me to so many different places other than Black History Month that I have been trying to form words. I am very much afraid that there is a streak in the nature of Man that is so ferocious that a certain kind of cruelty and inhumanity reigns in every century of recorded history. Some argue that a War is necessary to sustain our economy and this may well be true, but as I ponder the plight of the 19th Century AfroAmerican I am led immediately to the 20th Century Jew and on and on.

The simple "Think globally, act locally" bumper sticker is what is left for me. We must do what we can where we can. We learn in therapy that the only person we can change is ourself. We must be vigilant and remember there is always something we can do. But change the history of the world? I don't know.

February 23, 2012 8:53 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Good morning everyone! I'm not sure how we're going to segue into food from this extremely serious topic but I'm sure we'll find a way.

February 23, 2012 9:21 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the year 2050
will see groups traditionally designated minorities, comprise 50% of our
population; the Hispanic population alone is expected to double by
then.


Approximately 1/6 of the U.S. population speaks
a language other than English at home.



20% of Blacks rate their health to be "fair to
poor", compared to 11% of Whites.

48% of
Black adults age 18-64 report having a chronic disability or illness, compared
with 40% of Whites, 29% of Hispanics and 25% of Asians. This disparity exists
between Blacks and Whites even at higher income levels. Blacks at or above
income levels of 200% of the Poverty level are still 40% more likely than whites
to suffer from chronic illness or disability.


The Infant mortality rate for Blacks in 2003
approached 2.5 that for White infants. American Indian/Alaska Native rates were
also higher than those of White infants.

After some modest
improvement, the rates for Black infants appear to be on the rise
again.

 Statistics indicate Infant mortality rates
for foreign-born women are lower than those for American-born women.


69% of Blacks compared to 54% of Whites are
overweight or obese.

American Indian/ Alaska Natives is the group at
greatest risk for Diabetes with a rate of 18%. Blacks follow closely behind with
a 15% rate.

While minority women, in general, suffer from lower
rates of breast cancer, but are more likely to die from the disease.Chef Deb, now the segweay ti food,,,,sort of.I will quote
"...conditions experienced by their ancestors during the period of slavery passed through epigenetic, rather than genetic, mechanisms.

Current socio-economic conditions which are, on average, worse for African-Americans, can explain only part of the observed birth weight variation, according to Jasienska. Nor is there reason to think that lower birth weight of African-Americans is due to original African genetic heritage. Prior studies have shown that contemporary black women who were born in African countries ancestral to slave populations, but who live in the U.S., give birth to children with significantly higher weight than black women in the U.S. who have slave ancestry.

"Slaves experienced poor nutrition during all stages of life, suffered from a heavy burden of infectious diseases and, in addition, experienced high energetic costs of hard physical labor," says Jasienska. "Even a short-term nutritional deprivation of pregnant women, when very severe, has been shown to have an intergenerational effect," says Jasienska. Dutch women exposed to famine as fetuses in mid- and late gestation have also been shown to have reduced birth weights, and the effect was detectable years later because birth weight of their children was also reduced.

The fetal programming concept suggests that physiology and metabolism, including growth and fat accumulation of the developing fetus, and, thus its birth weight, depend on intergenerational signal of environmental quality passed through generations of matrilinear ancestors.

A child's birth weight depends on the condition of his or her mother during pregnancy but also, recent research indicates, on the conditions the mother faced as a child and even as a fetus. As a result, a child's birth weight may be influenced by nutritional conditions of its grandmother and even great-grandmother. The resulting effects can be seen in both childhood and adulthood, and include a higher risk of hypertension, diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

Jasienska states that, in the U.S. , the condition of many slaves did not immediately improve after the abolition of slavery, so the causes are not as far removed in time from contemporary African Americans as it may seem. Census data from the year 1900 showed that African Americans continued to suffer higher mortality than whites from all major diseases except cancer. Even though several generations have passed since then, it may not have been enough time to eliminate the negative impact of slavery on the health of the contemporary African-American population.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081016124335.htm

the epigenetics concept has me wondering ....what  the future holds for the next generations of Americans......no matter their race or ethnecity.

February 23, 2012 9:23 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 hazel leese said...

Ooo - I looked at this topic and waited and waited for somebody to say something. Not my area. Thanks, Lynn, for your thoughtful comment. Meanwhile, Cheddar Cheese on muffins?

February 23, 2012 9:27 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

    Hazel, Sounds yummy.

February 23, 2012 9:40 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Not mine either; thanks Hazel for bringing it around to food.
 
My children and grandchildren, it seems, can manage to have a conversation about some one, telling us an anecdote perhaps, without mentioning race/religion unless it is specifically the point of the anecdote.  Why then must we have a topic that is specifically about race?  We are agreed that perhaps we have suffered terrible losses due to our narrow-minded ways.  Hopefully, gradually, as turning stone to sand, it has been amended.
 
This election is causing eruptions of those terrible pimples again -- instead of a debate about issues; the issues are becoming religion.

February 23, 2012 9:55 AM
First-comHr-1 bobedaone said...

Love your comment, "Not just this month during Black History Month. But every month."  And in that vein: Did anyone else watch Shakree Tilghman's film "More Than a Month" (Independent Lens - PBS) this week? Funny and thought provoking; an enjoyable hour.

February 23, 2012 9:58 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

ANDY The issues for all eternity have always been about religion. And my experience in the neck of the woods I live in is that unlike my years in NYC where yes, just as you said about your progeny managing not to mention race/religion, great strides have been made, where I am now the prejudices extend far beyond the race/religion issue, they just don't stop. I don't really really know where I am taking thid. just commenting.

Had a delicious grilled egg & cheese sandwich, but I AM OUT OF COFFEE!! Extra cups of Eng Brk Tea are helping but.........

February 23, 2012 10:17 AM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Oh Chef Deb - no coffee ?  Oh my, just stop by and I'll give you some.....sometimes tea just doesn't do it.
 
 

February 23, 2012 10:33 AM
004 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1 korthal said...

CHEF DEB:
I too was holding off till the subject turned to food.
I stay away from religion and polotics, history isn't my area either.
How could you run out of coffee?
I would never wake up without the dark roast. It's hidden in several places here. Well not hidden, just kept for back up wherever space allows.
Lucky for me if I were to ever run out my store is 1/2 mile away.
I couldn't go to bed if the pot's not ready for me to just push the button when I get up.
Measuring water and grounds in the AM is beyond me.

February 23, 2012 10:37 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Think of Whirled Peas

February 23, 2012 10:47 AM
28471 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Lynn830 said...

I think we need on occasion to examine our consciences and decide if the world around us is what we want.  38% of the US prison population is black, yet blacks are only 13% of the population.  What conclusion do you draw from that?  Many conclude that the courts are more likely to imprison and execute someone who is black.  Many note that the drug laws are racist, with penalties higher for drugs found in the black community.  In the end, addiction medicine notes that crack is no more addictive than any other form of cocaine.  Folks rail against President Obama in a way that appears to be mostly against his policy of being black.  The "birthers" use highly selective evidence that is appallingly flimsy.  Their vaunted video continues beyond what they show with the reporter being incredulous that Obama was born in Kenya, the translator checking with Obama's grandmother, who then protests that, no, Barack was born in the United States.  A former head of the DEA notes that there are enough drugs warehoused within the United States to last for 30 years.  Yet we continue to throw money at interdiction, but damn little for treatment of a treatable illness.  When you say this is not your "area" or "interest," I suggest you are acting adversely by default.  I leave you with a quote from the German theologian Martin Niemöller (1892-1984):
 
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

February 23, 2012 10:48 AM
4188 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Penelopetx said...

The one morning I take time to come and read and comment, it would be about a serious topic! 
 
AND CHEF DEB OUT OF COFFEE!!!  CRISIS MODE!  I am drinking Cranberry/Apple tea and dreaming about a nice steaming JAVALICIOUS cup of JOE!!!!   Sorry CD, I am going to get me a cup...   ANDY to the rescue!
 
 

February 23, 2012 11:16 AM
4224 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 RoadYacht said...

Addicted to Coke? I'd much rather a Verner's

February 23, 2012 11:16 AM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

ANDY KORTHAL PENELOPE! Andy I'll be right over.....I usually have coffee stashed all over the place but recently I seem to be mainlining it and I am dependent on the kindness of strangers to get to a supermarket sooooo....its gonna be a long day!! Thanks for the empathy! But I WILL be driving through for coffee on the way to the market....

February 23, 2012 11:24 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

 Lynn830


Change MUST be the responsibility of everyone involved, not just those who are most adversely affected by circumstances, historical or contemporary.


The drugs/ lifestyle choices are just that....choices. We have not given enough emphasis in that in our efforts "level the playing field".


 


 


We are entitled to NOTHING in life other than a chance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwt4Byi8jRE&feature=youtu.be

February 23, 2012 11:32 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

 not just those who are most adversely affected by circumstances, historical or contemporary.
should have read...ESPECIALLY be those most adversely affected.....changes the who meaning...lol

February 23, 2012 11:47 AM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

I have nothing -- Used up all my liberalism in the 60's and 70's --As Bill Cosby and Mychal Massie have reiterated, the opportunities for success have been there for over 50 years, yet some people keep choosing crime, drugs, and dropping out, which explains the prison population. Values begin at home.

http://mychal-massie.com/premium/bio/

February 23, 2012 11:58 AM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

   I  am a 76 year old male who grew up in the South. It has been my pleasure to be a strategic thinker but I live tactically. I am  from a diverse thinking family. My parents were pacificist. One of my father's brothers was killed in WW I; the other, winner of two (2) Distiguished Flying Crosses and eight (8) Air Medals died from PTSD following WW II. Three of my brothers and I served our country in militaru service; one served in a U.S. Concentration Camp as a Conscientious Objector to killing. Was  militantly  raised to "love everyone... Black, Yellow, Red and White...they are precious in His sight" I saw my first black man in my mid-teens. Came to really know black people thru my work and at times lived among so many that when I got around white people I had to wear sunglasses to keep from getting snowblindness. My twenties and early thirties were spent up to my ears  in the heart of the Civil Rights upheaval; have had people shot and yes killed within feet of my work desk. That said,how do i feel about Black History Day/ Week/ Month? Well, while the opportunity to be better people will never be used up I am very proud of how far we have come. I'll not bore with the details. You probably know them better and from a more intellectual standpoint than I. Now, how can I make this segue to food? It has seemed to me to be poetic justice that food that were the cheapest cuts, not worthy of the better off, have turned out to be some of the best, eg: BBQ (spare ribs ,chicken, cheap cuts); homemade biscuit,s ,cracklin' corn bread, vegetable soup, collard greens, blackeye peas, pinto beans, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.   Ya'll come see us now!  

February 23, 2012 11:59 AM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...



It seems the
problem only become worse when the children

(all races) were given to the village to raise.



February 23, 2012 12:01 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-5 George Hall said...

Low country boil!!! how could I forget that???

February 23, 2012 12:51 PM
Stage_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 JALOPKIN said...

LYNN:  Such Etherial thinking is absolutely admirable, and Blessings Upon You for it ... But, for it all to work, one must believe that there is, " Some Good in Everybody " ... and unequivocally, there is not .......
 
You are a Preacher, and I have to believe that you have read The Book ... and unless you have been school'd in one of the Comic Book Versions, other than The Original King James or Torah ....... You must know that before the foundation of the World (not the earth, the World) God knew exactly who was going to be Saved, and who was not ... He allowed evil upon the Earth, and allowed it to prosper as it could, so that we could make comparisons, learn to know evil from Good, and have a better basis upon which to make the Free Will decision to ... CHOOSE ... Him, not just we are scared not to or because we think we have to ... If we did not know evil, we could not make an intelligent Decision, and Free Will would be a myth ... He did waste any portion of Goodness on/in those who are evil and never going to be saved, tho' there are times He restrains evil, to advance the Spiritual Growth and Maturity of a True Believer, and it may LOOK like Kindness ... God wants us to Choose Him, because we desire to be with Him, and not because we are scared of spending our eternity with our pants on fire ....... Every body ... is going to spend Eternity somewhere ....... Where, depends entire upon Whom one has believed .......
 
 
GEORGE HALL:   GOOD  ON  YOU  SIR !!!!!!!

February 23, 2012 12:58 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


So, "You must be the change you want to see in the world," appears to be satisfied by spouting statistics that ignore the fact that the persons who do most of the crimes are the persons most likely to appear in courts and in prisons.
That ignores as well that the birther monkey business could have been nipped in the bud by the simple, timely production of a traditional, standard birth certificate.
A judge in a murder trial in a nearby county summed it up pretty well: after listening to a third social worker testify- "I told you so," he tore into them for being the kind of persons who, having defined the problem (with a young bipolar woman who murdered her mother), considered the job done.
Speak out, challenge those who choose not to, dust off your palms and call it a good day… that'll change everything.
 

February 23, 2012 1:08 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 rwh1 said...

George low country boil is among our favorites and when we have company over and are enjoying it on the deck it is a most pleasant time. Summer before last we had some guests over for a late afternoon/early evening soiree and on of the ladies said she had heard of my bbqing and was expecting a really good steak . Instead we had low country boil . She and her husband told us how really good they thought it was and when can we do this again.

February 23, 2012 1:34 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Potatoes, sweet onions, crabs, Polish sausage, corn, spices and, as if that were not enough, beer.
That Low Country Boil sounds marvelous.
One of the best meals I ever et was red beans and rice with corn bread in Nashville.

February 23, 2012 1:48 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

You hit that nail square on the head Ms. Blue:  about the village and the children.  That's the most nonsensical b.s. I ever heard, and it hasn't improved anything, anyone's life since people started using it ad nauseum.  It does not take a village to raise a child:  it takes parents.  Ideally, two of them, because it's hard to raise a child properly, and two is twice as effective as one exhausted parent.  But it doesn't take a village.  That's an excuse, and a bad one, just look at the children of the parents out there right now who were "raised" by a village.  They're a mess, no hope, no direction, violent, and uneducated.  Jessie Jackson is in large part to blame for this message about the damn village raising children - but Jackson's a whole nother comment.  He knows how to hold "his" people down so they think they need him.  He made an entire career out of making money off the backs of the people he calls his own, and not doing one darn thing to help any one of them but himself.  Like I said, another topic.

February 23, 2012 1:51 PM
4188 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Penelopetx said...

Stoney, I'll take my red beans and rice (usually on Mondays!) with hot, crusty, BUTTERED (with real butter) French Bread. 
 
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm a la BeBe.
 
 
 
 
Miss Blue - RIGHT ON!  Responsiblity for the FREE WILL given us instead of blaming the choices made.

February 23, 2012 1:52 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

PS:  Bill Cosby is one of the smartest men on the planet.  Interesting that most of the people he's talking to and about prefer Jackson's "poor you" message, than Cosby's "get off your arses" message.  I wonder why this is so?

February 23, 2012 1:57 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

Lynn:  when I voted for Obama, I didn't think I was voting for a black president.  Just a president.  When the critics criticize Obama, it's not about his race, it's about his incredible inability to be the president we thought we were voting for.  I don't care if Obama is the color purple, he's the worst president we've ever had.  Ever.  

February 23, 2012 2:08 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...



- Thanks, Penelopetx and Park4.

I am a
perfect example of the need to own one's own problems and mistakes. ....I should
have done a better job of self-editing, so I will not use the "spell check"
defense.
All 3 of my
posts today contained terrible spelling and grammatical errors.

The youtube
clip I included is worth a look. That young man says it all so well.



February 23, 2012 2:16 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...



My personal
unsubstantiated theory ?



The Dems ran
"O", a person who was not yet ready to be president but was being groomed in
the back wings, because they knew the Repubs, who have actually been more
inclusive than their Dem counterparts would credit them for, were very close to
running a minority or female candidate. I would have voted for Hillary....shudder,
gasp... I can't believe I have become desperate enough to say that.



February 23, 2012 2:18 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...



The Village
is a thinly veiled euphemism for "the state". Don't ever forget that.



February 23, 2012 3:16 PM
P8041286 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300First-comFirst-photoHr-1 IvyGailWinds said...

Alot of good posts, I posted a few political issues in my previous posts,.... I wish, I had more knowledge on this Subject on "Equity"..should be straight forward...but when money is involved...and a gut of sheer "know it all ...so... so.... wisdom and I make more money than you..."...and we need more ear...ear..ear.....than shootin with lameness apathy...from the mouth...we could have peace.., health, wealth........I placed an amazing Picture of old time New York City, New York....on the community picture posts....

February 23, 2012 3:18 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Waddya know? Scuba man got off.

February 23, 2012 3:38 PM
10041_445991248814972_692962064_n Com-100Com-300First-comHr-1 The Giraffe said...

Miss Blue - I too would have voted for Hillary.

February 23, 2012 3:47 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Rusty said...

There was a word my parents and my friends parents taught us had an important meaning: Respect.  It was due others.  It was due all others especially our elders.  Now I am watching the "me generation" raise the next one.  I see it missing in malls, in the schools, in churches and synagogues, and I hear the older group like myself complain about the lack of it in parent and therefore in the child.  Black, white, Asian, American Indian or mix if "respect" does not have a definition and mean something to you, you have it for niether yourself nor others.  For a while we still need to be conscious of black history because, being an historian, I can assure you we have just scratched the surface of the contributions black people have made to this country and the world.  (Please do no think the new picture about the black piolets is accurate.)  I also think the history and the present condition of the American Indian should be put before the public eye more strongly. 

February 23, 2012 3:47 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Carol said...

Road Yacht---I vote for Vernor's too!!  

February 23, 2012 4:10 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Piolets looked a bit more exotic.

February 23, 2012 4:23 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

How about that Scuba Guy verdict.  Juries have become uber-liberal of late.  If you don't have a live stream of the murder, a real time view of it happening, then you don't have enough evidence for modern juries.  And since I've never heard of a murderer commiting his murder live streaming in real life real time real vivid color with a jury sitting right there watching - the whole process is getting kind of moot.  She had a life insurance policy?  (juror):So what, he wasn't the beneficiary.But he didn't know that and he tried to cash in...   (juror): different people act in different ways when they're grieving... (THUD).   These are times that try prosecutor's souls, and defense attornies are having a field day - getting killers off and back out on the street. 

February 23, 2012 4:37 PM
4188 10photoviewsCom-100First-comFirst-photo Penelopetx said...

Rusty - I belive they took "poetic license" with that movie.......
 
 
 
 
Park4 - unfortunately, my Mom was not selected for THAT jury.  She recently got called up and was very excited (and it was on her BIRTHDAY, for crying out loud!!!).  She rode the bus and was looking forward to serving on a jury, but they did not select her.  Jury selection is another gold mine topic......

February 23, 2012 5:00 PM
1521 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 Shandonista said...

It does take a village - the village of people who by their very presence were responsible for making sure that kids behaved.  They didn't have to say a word but the kids knew that their actions might just get reported back to mom and dad.  More than one time, that village kept my pals and me from doing something stupid.  I bet some of you had the same experience.
 
 

February 23, 2012 5:11 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

It began at home with my parents,Shandonista - they taught me how to behave out in the village.  They had expectations that were high, and it was less a matter of someone telling my parents or reporting on something I did - it was the pure disappointment I'd have to face on the face of my mother and father.  Nobody got hit in our house, it was all words, and punishments that befit the crime, or talks at the kitchen table at a very young age.  I remember getting a "C" mid-semester in English, and the look on my father's face was indescribable, but it boiled down to a huge disappointment in me, and had nothing to do with what my teachers thought of me - it was not meeting my parents expectations.  So no, it didn't take a village to raise me, it took my 2 parents, who sent me out in the village with the highest expectations....mostly I met them all, because I didn't want to see that look on my dad's face, that tone of voice when he said "C"s were average, and in most everything but especially English, I was anything but average, so "Why, p?, why?"

February 23, 2012 5:12 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


Park4 ~
It was a case where the defense, at the end of the prosecution's case, rose asked for an acquittal on the grounds that insufficient evidence had been presented to support the charge and the judge agreed.
The jury had no part in it this time.

Shandonista ~

You described my childhood to perfection. I could run like the wind but not fast enough to beat bad news home.

February 23, 2012 5:15 PM
Me_and_dave 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Andy said...

Park ~ I most absolutely agree. 
 
Yes, Miss Blue, let's not forget that.  I find it so offensive when I'm congratulated on how lucky I am to have children who are nice, productive, contributing members of society -- as if we just smiled and nodded as the dogs on the back of cars and did nothing. 
 
 

February 23, 2012 6:14 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

ohHappy Black History Month !!!   http://www.nsu.edu/ ;

February 23, 2012 6:31 PM
10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Mooseloop said...

Rusty - I absolutely agree about the need for families to teach their kids the meaning of "respect" and also agree about the plight of the American Indian. If anyone has a right to be aggrieved, feel misused, and claim injustice, it is the Native American! However, I don't think the renaming of sports teams has anything to do with the issues they face.

George Hall - Good commentary. Likewise, Park and Blue.....I only disagree on the pacifism. If you have worked to earn your home and belongings, you also have the right to defend them. We'd all still be British subjects unless our farmers and colonist ancestors had their weapons to fight off the RedCoats.

February 23, 2012 6:43 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

It was a bench trial, Stoney? I think I"m confusing this case with the lacrosse player at UVM, convicted 2nd degree murder of his girlfriend.  I'm trying not to pay too much attention to trials at this time.  I'm paying attention to politics.  I can only pay attention to the judicial OR the executive, not both, or I would surely implode.   

February 23, 2012 6:45 PM
1-dscn1106-4 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 PARK4 said...

At UVA, not UVM

February 23, 2012 6:46 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Well, I think you all did really well with this difficult topic. The only thing I want to add ties in a bit with Miss Blue's 9:21 about trying to explain low birth weights and obesity.  I was flabbergasted to learn recently about the lack of access to food in many of the poor areas of our major cities.  Seems the grocery stores don't want to go in there, and as a result, many of the families that live in these poor areas don't have access to produce, fresh foods, etc. They are fed from fast food restaurants and bodegas.  The older I get, the more I realize that we are what we eat. Just more of the downward spiral.  If I had millions, I would support local farming and coops in the city centers.
 
I bristle a bit at the village comments:I think you know by now I do tend towards socialism.  BUT, it's not an excuse. I firmly believe that everyone has to take personal responsibility.  I hate people who don't take responisbility for their actions. They are everywhere, they are right, left, red, blue, black white.  It doesn't matter.  And parents do have the ultimate responsibility to raise their kids.  Just so we're clear on that.  I agree with you!  ;-)

February 23, 2012 7:32 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PARK....................preach it sister! Your 1:48 is perfect! It takes two parents, two caring parents, two parents who are making the choice to actively parent.  ( and I am going to say that one of the best students I have come across came from a single mother, BUT a single mother who participated 150% in raising her children w/ the highest standards.)I see kids everyday & you talk to the grandma, the auntie, another auntie, a cousin or older sibling still in school; pretty much everything but the kitchen sink. No wonder the kid is confused, non focused, and semi unreachable. I would bet that the very people preaching the "village" line on raising children are NOT using it themseives. I can add nothing except praise. (I also completely get the, "I let my father down feeling." It was the worst, just the look on his face......................)
 
MISS BLUE....................your 9:21.............very excllent & fascinating. And I do agree that the village is inded the state...................no doublt about it.
 
IMARJORIE..............I used to get my liberal hackles up when I read about stores that would not open in urban, poverty areas and pizza places that wouldn't deliver to certain areas..........UNTIL................I read more about the crime, huge amounts of shoplifting, and a hard time finding reliable workers to staff said places. Businesses are in business to make money and they can't if the above are happening. Until there is a major change in inner city culture businesses won't open there. I would not or I would be very wary about opening a business w/ those obstacles. I do not see this as racism, ( although I am sure some would disagree) but business survival.............a business could care less about your gender or color as long as they are making money off of you. I do agree, parents have the rsponsibility to raise their children.

February 23, 2012 7:36 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...



I marjorie



You are referring
to the concept of the "food desert".



This is a
complex social, economic, health issue.



The
historically African American University I attend is actively involved in the
study of this problem. I have been accepted to their Nursing program and plan
to continue with an advanced degree in Nutrition.

Many of the
grocery store chains have pulled out of low income neighborhoods due to crime as
have the mom n pop stores. The residents of these neighborhoods are reluctant
to walk to neighborhood markets when they exist(even though many need the
exercise) due to crime and gang activity. Public transportation is not always
available or convenient.
It is difficult make a business profitable (I know
a dirty word to some) on just the Food Stamp, unemployment and WIC trade.
I have seen
the selection and quality of food items offered decline here locally due to a
sour economy. Those who can still afford the soon to be $4 per gallon gas and
the $20 round trip toll across the CBBT, do most of their food shopping in the
Hampton Roads area instead of locally. The USDA, Fed and State Depts. of Agriculture
(and the Highway Dept.) have classed just about every last produce vendor off
the streets here. The adjacent cities are no exception. Gone are the days when
the produce vendors and fish mongers drove through the neighborhoods. They have
been licensed and regulated out of business. Sure you need food safety but
things have gone to the extreme in this case.
I have a
habit of visiting the grocery stores on the first of the month and watching
what the folks on assistance put into their grocery carts. I'm not so sure how
many, other than the older folks, would even take advantage of foods that were
based on fresh fruits and vegetables instead of juices, whole grains instead of
junk food and fresh cuts of poultry, meat and fish instead of pre breaded
frozen crap.  Don't get me started on
this one.



February 23, 2012 8:18 PM
Poison_dart_frog_2 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1 Miss Blue said...

   hello, bebe!

February 23, 2012 8:57 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

What do I think....

I think  that the word equality is yesterday's fairness which I am sad to say it really  bunch of hoo-haa.   Being equal only applies to non-human things that can be measured, compared, and balanced.

When it comes to humans, the best that can be done is to "level the playing field".  That can and has been over time accomplished by legislation and enforcement as much as it can be.

What cannot be legislated or controlled is what lies in the minds and hearts of men.  

Can society's oppressive element become willing to examine and look beyond their prejudices; to go above and beyond what is mandated by law just because it feels like the right thing to do?  To buy into the concept instead of just staying below the legal radar.  I believe some will and some won't....which has always been the case wherever you may live.

Can society's "oppressed" seize the opportunities afforded to them on this leveled playing field?  some will, some won't.

 Just like everyone else, be they haves or have nots.......some will take positive action, take steps to overcome the same barriers that most of us face in this world of ours, be accountable for their actions and behaviors, become role models in their communities, and keep their individual dreams alive.

Just like everyone else, be they haves or have nots........some will try to obtain what they have not earned, become a victim instead of at least trying, try to raise themselves up be pushing someone else down.

The real world is, has always been, and will always be unequal when it comes to our species.  The fortunate few will simply inherit their their hopes, wishes and dreams, the many will have to bust their butts to find success and happiness as they define it, many will have to overcome enormous obstacles just to stay afloat just because of things like race, gender, height, the neighborhoods they grew up in.......others need societies help because of physical and/or mental illnesses.....and yet many in this category have been able to overcome all odds and serve as role models for the rest of us.  

Some things can be legislated.  Things such as respect, accomplishment, and individual achievement regardless of where one started from can only be earned.

Our laws have swung the pendulum of change, I think human nature and individualism will eventually get the pendulum just wavering around the middle.

To legislate to the degree of swinging the advantages in the opposite direction and infringing on anyone's rights will only serve to perpetuate the prejudices that it was trying to eradicate.

Life is very good,....... even if it isn't fair in your favor.  I think we have all experienced that in our lives.

We all look the same from 30,000 ft but totally unique once the plane lands.

I better stop, I feel like the crazy dude that stands on the corners of downtown Chicago with a megaphone and an audience of pigeons just as he spots the men in blue coming out of the donut shop around the corner and heading his way.

Peace out.  Consider me stifled for the day.

more on the honor roll
February 23, 2012 9:01 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...

   
Our street, from the Chicago & Northwestern tracks to Main, was four blocks long with thirty-nine houses.
I knew everyone who lived in those houses and they knew me. I knew everyone who lived on the ends and other sides of those blocks and they knew me.
Did I leap off my bike to keep a big storm window held by one corner from crashing to the ground or carry a crabby old lady's groceries home, or prime a reluctant pump or run to the post office because I worried that they would tell if I didn't?
Who could say?
What I can say is this: every one of those people, when our brother died, knocked out a hot dish,  got into their best duds and came by to sit with our mom.
Some of them were so old, fragile and inconsolable we were sent one by one to help them get back home… I was seven.
When you are seven and somebody takes your teary face in their teary hands and says: "I don't know what I would do if anything happened to you," that's your village or mine anyway.
I was not about to be caught cussing or even not smiling but not because of our parents.
Those were my people and I was their boy.

February 23, 2012 9:10 PM
4244 Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 ChefDeb said...

Now you're our boy Stoney.

February 23, 2012 9:24 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PL.....................The men in blue will NEVER come to take you away & what you have to say is important & real. There are no pigeons here, only an appreciative audience who thanks you.
 
STONEY...............................Your story, there are no words for a 7 year old going thru something that traumatic. I do understand your definition of "the village." My version is that sadly it just means more people who can beat the child for something they would probably never be doing had structure and love and real food been a part of the equation. Your village & SHANDONISTA's ( Hi SHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) is a different, loving village staffed by ADULTS! How I wish my kids had your village...............................
 
Sorry about the above dropped e's & other assorted mistakes.......................I'm blaming my computer....................bwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha........................
 
MISS BLUE.........................Our community is going through a very devisive "food desert" debate. A group who have spent a decade building a farmer's market w/ sweat equity and volunteers are looking to be edged out by a group of very vocal progressives who received a large grant from the USDA to build a farmer's market w/ bells & whistles, bus service, etc, etc.....................if you knew our community.................it is completely ludicrous. We are a horn of plenty, but because there is not a store w/in walking distance in this largely rural county people are screaming "food desert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" At the top of their lungs & all reason has gone out the window.
 
And now pigeons are gathering on my stoop. Zip it girl.............................

February 23, 2012 9:51 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

But bebe.... The boys in blue are carrying bags of donuts.....mmmmmmmmmmm

February 23, 2012 10:32 PM
Com-100Com-300Com-500First-comHr-1 bebe said...

PL......................only if you join me!
 
CHEFD........................what you said. perfect & true.........................did you get coffee today??????????????????

February 24, 2012 12:16 AM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Sounds like a grand plan bebes!

February 24, 2012 9:33 AM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

Peter--I like the way you put things.  I'll just put in another 2 cents worth.  My view of a more socialist society does not include freebies for the idle. In my utopian view, a socialist society is  made up of a folks working together for the greater good. No free rides.  It would resemble Stoney's neighborhood, not Soviet Russia.  I think we have all seen that free rides just attract free loaders.  But in a caring community, no one gets left behind.  It s a utopian, unpractical view, but like I've said before, I have an active fantasy life. 
 
Not that this has much to do with Black History month.
 
Bebe, your little community and the farmer's market is a very sad story.  It gives progressives a bad name.  I think farmers markets, community farms, coops should be kept small.  That's what makes them work.  When I said above that if I had millions, I would invest in trying to get real food back into the inner city, I was serious. It would be a philanthopic investment.  Yes, a lot of folks that grew up on junk and fast food would continue to make those choices because that's what they know.  It would take at least a generation to change those habits, and it has to be done at the family level. Education, hard work, learning where food comes from.  That's the problem. Chicken doesn't come from a little plastic tray that is shrink wrapped. It comes from a living bird. If we get back to that knowledge, I believe it would have to be better.

February 24, 2012 11:07 AM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

I marjorie, thank you!

I think when we boil off the extremes and abuses of any 'ism' we look around and see we are all not that far apart.

Be well

February 24, 2012 11:28 AM
Paolo 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 paolos said...

Miss Bebe and Miss Blue ~ You were
both certainly hard at work today (well, yesterday). 

 

I think Stoney was describing a
neighborhood, not a village. One is a manner of being, the other is simply a
place to be. It doesn’t take a neighborhood, but it doesn’t hurt to be
neighborly.  I’ve never heard the
expression, Just for once try to be villagely,
you old coot.

 

February 24, 2012 2:45 PM
10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Stoney said...


I have known really accomplished students, almost scholars actually and very solid citizens who had either no parents or worse.
The one I know best, needed and got the support and encouragement necessary to believe in himself and to excel in an intensive educational setting not open to many.
He got as well protection from overzealous educators: "That zany skit idea you have come up with? It may be a good or even great tool but I am asking that you set that aside for now."
They did it without prejudice and it worked.
All village, no parents, no family at all.
A very good boy recognizing a very good opportunity and holding to the best  that he saw in the people around him and discarding the rest.

February 24, 2012 3:46 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

My father was orphaned at 2 years (Spanish influenza). Fortunately, he was left a little money so was not a destitute orphan, but he was without parents. He was raised by his grandmother for awhile, then lived with various aunts and uncles until he went to college at 16 years old.  He was a very successful man in many ways.  And he raised 5 somewhat successful children including me!

February 24, 2012 3:56 PM
Img00274-20110613-1309 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoHr-1Hr-5 l marjorie said...

I just re-read Peter's comment above: a well deserved honor roll piece.  It really made me think.  If I were to describe to you some of the things I lived through, growing up in a "nice" house in a fairly affluent area, you might wonder how I turned out as well as I have. I'm sure many of you feel the same way about aspects of your life.  Why do some of us succeed and some fail? It isn't the 2 parent thing, it's not being from the right side of the tracks.  Ivan talks above about free choice and chosing good over evil. I'm not so religious that I think in those terms, but it makes me pause.  I really don't know the answer.

February 24, 2012 9:33 PM
M 10photoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-reviewHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Penn said...

Hudson J, glad you got the bling for that one!

February 24, 2012 9:46 PM
Photo 10photoviews10videoviewsCom-100Com-300Com-500First-comFirst-photoFirst-videoHr-1Hr-10Hr-5 Peter Lake said...

Thank yo!  It is so nice to see your name pop up here.  That means you can't be far behind it!

Honor Roll


What do I think....

I think  that the word equality is yesterday's fairness which I am sad to ...

-Peter Lake

Feb. 23, 2012 8:57 PM

read full opinion



Yesterday's Discussion

On National Snack month one must do their duty and talk about snacks.

 

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