Give us a Symbol

INQUIRING MINDS(and those of us with Blue Hair) WANT TO KNOW .......

To reach the cult standing to which it would aspire, it needs.......a secret decoder ring   And box tops sould be invovlved....

I like the ideas of some of these "conspiracy theories", but the fictional ones usually come out so complicated that they really can't be believed.  Real conspiracies have more to do with 2 or 3 people running a scam to get money.  The large scale ones rely on too many people having the same goals and not telling anyone what is going on.  Getting people to agree is almost impossible.  Just try ordering a pizza with 5 friends and see what sort of toppings you get. 
 
Dan Brown's books are fun.  They're safe, easy to read and understand, contriversial enough to stir up a few people, but in the end they don't really reveal anything that wasn't already known. 

Luckily I  have saved my  Johnny Quest secret decoder ring since Kindergarden.
 
I agree with Michael that conspiracy theories are usually  rooted in greed and crafted by two or three people who capture the attention of others.   We pay attention, even it only for a few minutes because we love secrets.  Conspiracy theories are are the gossip columns and tabloid fare of the elite.
 
Part of the reason a book like the Di Vinci Code is able to sell record numbers of copies, has to do with the controversy created because the public wants the story  to be real.  It the hallmark of good writing is the ability to make an audience suspend belief to follow the author's imagination.   
   

Michael,  Julia:   I  like  your  "KISS  theory"  approach  to  conspiracies.   Real  world  conspiracies  tend  to  unravel  unless  they  are  uncomplicated,  with  the  number  of  insiders  being  minimal,  and  the  idea  remarkably  straightforward.  Hence  KISS:   Keep  it  simple,  stupid!    But  the  movie  audience  loves  the  good  yarn,  with  plots,  subplots,  double  entendres,  and  codes  that  require  the  equivalent  of  World  War  II  German  submariner's  enigma  machine  to  decipher.   So  we  may  talk  all  we  want  about  how  unrealistic  the  movie  may  be,  but  Tom  Hanks  was  brillant  in  The  Da  Vinchi  Code  {another  overly-complicated  unrealistic  tale}.    And  I  refuse  to  trash  anything  that  man  does,  after  the  world  class  performance  he  did  in  portraying  the  captain  assigned  the  mission  of  Saving  Private  Ryan.....the  former  high  school  teacher,  shoehorned  into  the  role  of  officer  at  Normandy,  who  notwithstanding  his  case  of  bad  nerves  {remember  his  desperate  attempts  to  keep  his  men  from  seeing  his  shaking  hands?}  followed  through  and   advanced  unprotected  through  German  machine  gun  fire  to  try  to  reconnect  the  detonator,  blow  the  bridge  at  Arnheim  {the  city   for  which  our  closest  country  town,  population  40,  is  named},  and  keep  German  reinforcements  from  intercepting  the  allied  forces  spearhead  (and  capturing  or  killing  Private  Ryan).   Remember  the  advice  he  whispered  to  Ryan,  as  he  lay  dying  in  Ryan's  arms?  Aw  shucks,  this  is  where  it  gets  all  too  flashbackish  for  me...you  get  the  idea.  
Hey,  as  I  dry  my  eyes,  did  we  find  the  golden  retrieve  from  yesterday  morning?

Dan Brown taps into our thirst for explication of the unknown, and for making things complicated and secret. We all play those games in youth, as part of our childlike perspective or awareness attempts to explain the adult world. Much of our society never matures in understanding and education, and so a combination of eschatology and symbolism resonates in that part of experience linked to wonder and superstition, which are the bases of religion.
Dan throws in a great deal of history, which provides a basis for plausibility, and adds suspense, likeable characters, and a busily evolving plotline which also plays to the currently abbreviated attention span. All of these elements, plus a good poke at people's belief systems, generates interest and a desire to know the story.
Just add a bonfire and a drum, and the shaman rivets...
  

Olivia:   With  all  due  respect,  although  I  concede  that  "wonder"  and  "superstition"  are  part  of  our  experience  that  links  to  religion,  for  many  of  us  there  is  much  more  to  it  than  that.   I  don't  just  buy  into  the  famous  quote  that  "Religion  is  the  opium  of  the  masses."   Religious  faith  and   tradition  do  have  a  calming  effect  on  the  believers,  but  if  there  is  no  deeper  dimension  than  that  then  all  we  have  is  a  witch  doctor,  shaking  a  cup  of  chicken  bones,  scattering  them,  and  "interpeting"  them  for  an  unsophisticated  audience. 

fecund imagination, coupled with truths, and a dash of fact, does lend to interesting books, and great profits.
 
morning all !  so glad the puppy is home!

Ok I got the PE email prompting me to pay attention.  First on "conspiracy theories"I find Dan Brown an expert at tickling the fance of those bent to bash the Catholic church.  Not having a dog in that rift, I find it simply amusing that non-Catholics can put so much stock in a novel.  It ain't Brown it's his readers that disturb me.  I read Da Vinci Code, did not waste my time on Angels and Demons, saw the move and what a diaster, and will likely do the same with his new book and even skip the movie.  My review on Da Vinci:  http://cigarroomofbooks.blogspot.com/2007/12/da-vinci-code.html
 Separately the other thread of thought PE prompts is clearly the Obama health plan debate.  Or was it great timing by Brown to throw out a how to die book?  Yes it is true that aged ones spend more at the doctors.  And yeas the medicine man has really taken the role of God to a very scientific level. Which all of a sudden brings God/religion and science back together in a conversation...unless you have a penchent for conspiricy theories.   So before the gasping balk... at the notion of talking about religion and politics, here is my thought:  If in deed the words Jesus taught suggested a sense of timelessness, the transcendance of death, time would be renedered somewhat meaningless.  That is of course if we can break that bad habit of living in the past....differnt thread I know so I'll stop.

I love a good story, and I enjoyed DaVinci. It was fun. I'll probably read the new one, too, and people say Angels and Demons was better than DaVinci. But we gotta remember that this stuff is fiction. Brown makes no claim that his "symbology" is accurate or that any incidents are true. So don't be looking for real conspiracies in the pages of a novel.

It's like reading historical fiction and then using the dialog from it as actual quotes. Shoot, even supposedly real historical quotes get messed up. Marie Antoinette never said "Let them eat cake."

However, I'm sure someone DID say "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead," so bring on the next Dan Brown book and let's see where he leads our imaginations!

By the way, save a tree and check it out from the library... or if you must buy a copy, be sure to pass it on!

Dan Brown is a writer of fiction, and fiction, as we all know, is a literary work whose content is created by the writer's imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.

What amazes me is that so many people and organizations seem to view Dan Brown's books as being works of nonfiction. They speak of his stories as having inaccuracies and mistakes in them, as if he were writing an historical account and had gotten his facts wrong. They ‘doth protest too much, methinks' and that further serves to blur the line between fact and fiction, truth and lies.

Thus the feeding frenzy begins, as the author sits back to enjoy his fame and royalty checks...the hallmarks of a professional storyteller in the 21st century.

As always, Olivia conveys my thoughts so well.  During my absence from the Eye I've had many a fascinating experience with the inner secrets of creating legislation while prowling the hidden halls of our state's capitol - such intrigue one cannot imagine, nor, in the words of other esteemed colleagues, can one "just make that stuff up"...My family has been a part of the secret work of Masonry and its appendant and concordant bodies for many generations, and now, especially thanks to the Internet, most of their current secrets are available to anyone who wants to read them.  The current work of the various bodies lies in their often anonymous generous support of their members, families and others - Shrine Hospitals, Cancer Research, Aphasia, Cardiac care, widows, orphans, etc.  Their leadership training and social skill development options for young women and young men also include scholarships for higher education.As with every other attempt to do good, one can find instances where greed and chicanery appear, but in general, the lessons learned are valuable.Didn't we once have a popular radio show called "I Love A Mystery" in the days before TV?I'm so glad to see that the Eye has not lost its charm, wit and dignity and I'll pop back in when duty otherwise does not call - lo! thou must -

CUUKOO1:   So  glad  th  hear  that  your  golden  retriever  "retrieved  him/herself!"    Perhaps  I  shall  push   Olivia's  buttons,  metaphorically  speaking,  and  attribute  the  "miracle"  to  the  power  of  prayer....lol

Perhaps I will read this new book now, I hadn't planned on it.  The DaVinci Code was a really good read and had us all talking.  To be good fiction, of course, means to add a little fact into it and if it can stir up controversy, well, hey, you've got a best seller.  Good for him if he can do it again -- congrats, Dan Brown.

Bert, I'm sure that Apollo's return was due to the collective good thoughts and multiple posts to the Eye. And didn't somebody sacrifice a chicken? An old, tasty chicken, of course. I personally filleted a cod in the hopes that it would bring the dog home safely.

PS  as to are we all descended from aliens -- There was a Twilight Zone episode that said we were.  It started with two astronauts landing on a heavily vegetated, deserted spot.  They came from different planets, spoke different languages and gradually during the 30 minutes that the show was on, you were brought to understand that the name of the place they landed was "Urth" and then near the end that his name was "Ahdem" and her's, at the very last shot, as the camera panned away:  "Eve".  Since The Twilight Zone was my favorite all time television show, and Rod Serling a genius, surely he knew.....right?

Paul  Murphy:  You  someday  need  to  expand  on  your  ideas,  my  virtual  friend.    You  are  one  of  many  for  whom  I  often  agree,  occasionally  respectfully  disagree,  but  always  enjoy.   I  for  one  believe  that  time  is  actually  a  continuum,  while  at  the  same  time  being  a  practicing  Roman  Catholic,   AND  a  person  for  whom  tolerance  and  respect  of  others  and  their  beliefs  is  paramount.  Sometimes  I  feel  a  little  like  a  juggler  with  too  many  balls  in  the  air,   but  for  me  the  cohesion  of  those  three  ideas  is  bedrock.
Hey,  am  I  the  only  one  who  picked  up  on  the  fact  that  Abraham  Lincoln  {my  favorite  president,  and  a  truly  gifted  lawyer}  was  born  on  the  same  day  as  Charles  Darwin  {one  of  my  favorite  scientists}?   Go  to  Springfield,  Illinois   and  visit  the  magnificent  interactive  Lincoln  Museum  {allow  two  days,  get  tickets  &  reservations  in  advance  from  their  website}.  Then  go  to  the  Galapagos  Islands,  once  again  allow  multiple  days  there,  the  $100  permit  is  good  for  30  days  and  can  be  renewed  once}.   Both  experiences  expanded  my  faith  in  man,  in  science,  in  the  rule  of  law,  and  in  god.   Now  Bert  moves  away  from  his  soapbox,  making  room  for  others  to  get  their  turns...

Bert, I'll go with you a bit on the chicken bone metaphor. With a good laugh. I'll also go with Olivia's symbolism theory. After all it is symbols in sight or sound in consistent patterns that create words. Sooner than later our thoughts are restricted by the symbols we practice. The less we practice the greater our limitations. In many written languages those symbols take on a whole new literal meaning. I would guess that the renaissance period put the need for symbols other than letters at the forefront in the church to give pre-printing press western civilization something to coalesce around. The church at that became intertwined as government and abused their power. We have yet to let that heal...some would say because the church still insists on putting themselves between the person and God, which is according to Jesus' teachings as I learned them is nothing more than reality of which science has taken to an art form...so round and round we go.

Kristina  So here it is 54 years later Marie didn't say that.  Can I quote you?  Then what the heck did she say???!!!!  

Well Bert I am always accused for expanding my ideas too far especially when I don't communicate them fully. So let me take a real high level crack at it. It was my trailer about a persons penchant to drag their past around in the present moment. It is usually that past that gets in the way of getting along and then putting us in the mode of tolerance as opposed to absolute forgiveness. Absolute forgiveness put in to action means that in the moment with no baggage from the past the way is clear to see only the good in your fellow man, rendering the moment absolute bliss. Ever notice when you are at the height of joy, time flys. So with that would we be on the same page regardless of the category of the conversation whether religions, philosophical, or scientific and Einstein's multiple time continuums.

I never bothered reading The Da Vinci Code and was not especially impressed (positively or negatively) with the movie.  My mother-in-law was fascinated by it and insisted it was going to change the world and change our understanding of history.  But when she started to explain why, I became very dubious very quickly:
 
MIL:  He shows us how Da Vinci was entrusted with this big secret and he points to all the clues!
 
DPR:  How do we know that he was entrusted with this secret?
 
MIL:  Because, if you look at his painting of The Last Supper, he shows you everything!
 
DPR:  So, the man was entrusted with this deep, dark, centuries old secret.  And he keeps this secret by revealing the answer to the world in a painting on a massive canvas for everyone to see?
 
MIL:  Uhhh....
 
And that was pretty much it.

To those who enjoyed the Angels and Demons movie...the end put an explaination mark on the folly of the whole movie.  The mere idea that you can fly a "dark matter" bomb high enough in a helicopter to save the world is cartoon nonsence.  ANd the hero parachutes to safety to be cheered by all of man kind.  The Pink Panther carried more cedibility in fact than did Angels and Demons.  I really think Ron Howard blew it, and Hanks came down a peg in my opinion.

I've neither seen the films of nor read the books on this subject, and completely fail to see the importance and relevence of it. While still dated, I would much rather see this fellow look into what happened to Raul Wallenberg or Hans Kammler.
The Masons do good work, why ask why?

~bert~ the pup i am referring to is rings90's baby, not mine(physically,perhaps in spirit,though), and i concur as to the collective energy being responsible, kristina!!!!

I didn't like the Da Vinci Code ~ It started quite well, it's middle was alright, the ending was a HUGE dissapointment for me.. It was like Mr. Brown had written himself into a corner & couldn't resolve it any other way.. I thought there would be way more punch at the end.. yet is just wasn't there. When I finished reading it I couldn't figure out what exactly the HUGE Offense it has commited against most of my Cathollic friends who tried to read it & got upset over it.
 
Although I am a great believer in conspiracy theories ~ I'm not so sure about the whole Da Vinci thing to begin with.. Do I think Mary M. was maybe a bit erased from Jesus life, yes, as should any student of history already be aware of ~history has been rewritten & is still being rewritten, the dark ages, lost us A LOT of very valuable information & those who cannot accept that are jsut not realisitc.
 
So is it possible that maybe Mary M. was running the Gang Of Apostles (hence forth to be referred to as GOA) ~ Heck yeah she was ~ Remember behind every Great Man is a an even Greater Woman.... But the church couldn't give a woman power so she was written out as the leader of GOA ~ Which is not uncommon to have been done throughout history... 
 
  

Perhaps because of and/or despite all of our differences and experiences, one of the things we do have in common is the belief, hope, or fear that there really is a someone "behind the curtain" that is manipulating "The Great and Powerful OZ"?

There has been and always will be a hunger, perhaps even a craving, for a nicely crafted answer that supplies a reason to that which seems unreasonable.

I think this is why Douglas Adam's answer to the meaning of everything being 42 was received like finger nails on a chalkboard.

Well that's my ‘oar' for what its worth ........ and I've stuck it in the water as I unknowingly head towards the waterfall that's at the end of the earth.........

I read "The Da Vinci Code" expecting it to be scholarly, adventurous, and elegantly written. I found a poorly-written dime novel with one of the worst-drawn female characters I've ever encountered. Needless to say, I was disappointed. I apologize to those that liked it, and admit I'm somewhat of a snob when it comes to books (this comes from being raised in a house where I read "Gone With the Wind" at age eight, "The Once and Future King" at thirteen, was given D.H. Lawrence by my mother in 10th grade and Hermann Hesse by my father). What bothered me, and this has been brought up before, was the huge amount of hoopla it created. It's a novel. It's fiction. It's not even that creative. I can do better than that, and I intend to. As far as the Masons and their secrets go, my family has an interesting connection with that. My great-aunt was living in her family-run boarding house near Great Falls, Montana, at the age of fifteen, when an archaeologist came through on his way to San Francisco. They fell in love, and he took her with him. After spending some time in San Francisco, he was assigned to work in Mexico. His wife, now pregnant, followed him. Unfortunately, about a month after they arrived, he died of a heart attack. My great-aunt was now sixteen, still pregnant, and spoke no Spanish whatsoever. As it turns out, the man was a Mason, and somehow the society found her and put her on the train back to the States. From there, she was able to work her way back to Montana. The child later grew up to be a stuntman in Hollywood. This story, as much as I know of it, is absolutely true, backed up by numerous members of the family.

Bert,Paul,et.al.,...Before the printing press, there may just have been those glyphs,pressed into a wet medium,and sheltered from the elements,that was pointed to by someone of professed knowledge,and therefore disseminated. But alas, entropy. And the tellers of those stories may have had a memory lapse,or just an opinion,that changed the story as it was passed. And scribes;do you,in your daily life see many people that do not have some form of vision correction- -which did not then exist- -there by changing the story significantly?     Again, my oft stated mantra: there were people of genius calibre before the written word, and the fact that Pi was originated, and passed down for generations,and became the foundation of the Masons;the arch,etc.,all adds to the same genius as the cave pictures,illuminated by fire,carried by not much more than great apes...        Now, how about those campfire stories?

Rings90...having been raised a Catholic albeit not practicing as an adult, I appreciate the mockery the general populace makes of the symbolistic gestures in the church.  There is a lot of good that lives in the shadows.  Let me turn it around for you.  Having experienced the womens movement, the gay movement , and every other "minorty" movement, the word was/is sensitivity.  Against that backdrop it seems too many people are willing to if not bash Catholics  but are insensitive to practices that they hold dear.  Perhaps Catholics are a little sensitive to the insensitive.

Peter Lake...there is much more moral message in Hitchhickers Guide than all of Dan Brown put together.  I am happy to see the answer to be once again brought to the fore.  Great work bub!!!!

"Any novelist that manages to piss off the Pope is okay in my book" says Peter Lake with a devilish grin.

42 is the answer, we just can't handle the truth...... 

Paul, I agree.... there is more of a moral message to be found in a single Douglas Adams sentence than the Dan Brown library, which is located in the Mass Marketing Wing of the "Great Library" which can be found right across the galaxy from "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe".

Once upon a time, masonry was a marvelous secret, and those with the gift for architraves and vaults had free run across an otherwise well-fenced medieval world.  These days, it is philanthropy in funny outfits, which is fine, but because it is human nature to be unable to deal with the fact that, not only is all life suffering, it is arbitrary suffering, we look to the clandestine as a source for all our woes.  In spite of the fact that each and every one of us knows, from experience, that the more people on the committee, the less likely it will be able to tie its own shoes. Frank Kermode (who I adore, because he's cranky) did a lovely analysis of the psychology of insiders, outsiders, and the psychology of interpretation called The Genesis of Secrecy.  He looks at the parables of Christ in Mark, but frankly I don't think Dan Brown is any different.  A symbol that requires interpretation is the sign of a clique in development; to be able to interpret it (correctly) means you are an insider.  To fail means you are beyond the pale.  We all want to appear to be insiders, so we madly interpret away.   Of course, I am myself well-tarred with this brush, because I am in the business of literary interpretation.   ...Though while all this attention is on the Masons, I can't help but wonder what the Woodsmen of the World are getting up to. tmd

I think Dan Brown is overrated. The plot of The Da Vinci Code was so ridiculously convoluted I had a very hard time suspending disbelief. It sort of reminded me of the movie Wild Things, where at the end there was a fresh double-cross every 30 seconds and I found myself just wishing for the whole damn thing to be over for good.

One thing that makes the work of Hitchcock stand out so well is that even when there is the facade of a grand conspiracy, it turns out to be very small after all.

Just my final thought on the topic, and maybe the rest of the day.......

If the worst outcome of all the hoopla is that Dan Brown gets richer and in the process of doing so he inspires more folks to discover the joy of reading... well that ain't bad.

The answer is 42.  The problem is, no one knows the question.  So I am left with this wonderful section of question-answer dialogue from The Hitchhiker's Guide: 
 
Who are you?
 
A friend.
 
Really?  Anyone's friend in particular or just generally well disposed to people?
 

Has anyone read Foucoult's Pendulum by Umberto Eco?  It is the thinking mans explanation to this huge and fascinating mystery and written well in advance of the Da Vinci Code.  The book started me an enthralling historical literary journey re: the myths and legends of the Knights of the Templar, the Chalice and Freemasons. 
By the way, what is the story on the Golden Retriever?  It sounds like it ended happily...

and she's laughing....ah! 

oh...I haven't been here in months, painting my way out of a mountain of children's book & licensing illustrations...but this topic was enough to lure me back to read what people here were writing! Sue, I was a HUGE fan of Eco & Foucalt's Pendulum but I am looking forward to Brown's new book, sounds like a rollicking good read!Pity children's book illustrators can't make the royalties authors like Dan Brown ( or JK Rowling!) make.
 if I was lured back now.......will probably be back later.

If I were to look deep down inside, I'm quite certain that I would find that I really just wish that I had the inspiration, the imagination, the talent, the dedication, and courage required to write a book that is deemed worthy of being read by anyone besides myself. 

Ouch!

BOX TOPS !!! THAT'S IT, 42 BOX TOPS.....Why, the answer was there all along!              Any one know the zip code for      Battle Creek?

I haven't read any of Dan Brown's works, but from the commentaries & critiques I have read, I gather that the hoopla came from his preface to The Da Vinci Code, wherein he claimed that all the allegedly suppressed history of the Church (e.g. Mary Magdalen being the wife of Jesus) was "based on fact."
 
Actually he got it from a book (whose authors later sued him, I believe, for not crediting them as the source) which contained the kind of half-baked "history" made famous by Van Daniken's Chariots of the Gods.  I'm sure some of you remember the Nova expose of that one, in which the "astronaut in his space capsule" was revealed to be a completely conventional Mayan tomb painting.  Van D. just didn't get the symbolism that would have been obvious to a real pre-Columbian expert, and thus jumped to the wrong conclusion.
 
In the same way, Brown's source, being apparently ignorant of the Renaissance convention of painting St. John as young, beardless, and (to modern eyes) even a bit effeminate, interprets the figure of John in the Last Supper as a woman, and therefore, by a Van Daniken-like leap of imagination, as Mary Magdalen.
 
Incidentally, nobody "erased" Mary M. from Church history.  She's in all four Gospels as a witness to both the Crucifixion and Resurrection, and she was much revered in the Middle Ages, when (probably mistakenly) she became identified with the "sinful woman" who washed Jesus' feet.  What the Gospels actually say is that he exorcised seven devils from her.  (In the old silent movie, King of Kings, they were the 7 deadly sins - a bit of cinematic license that made for a great visual.)  There's a vivid account of it in Anne Rice's novel about Jesus, Christ the Lord: The Road to Cana.
 
It's true that Mary M. isn't mentioned in the Epistles, but then neither is Mother Mary - and the Catholic & Orthodox churches certainly haven't ignored her either.  Maybe Dan's source book was written by a Protestant?  As a group they tend not to understand Catholic symbolism (see, I'm still on the topic!).
 
 

I made an Apollo Update on yestrdays post at around 8:15pm. Please go there to read about the happy ending... thank you
 

Claire ~ maybe erased was the wrong word to use ~ I was meaning that a lot of the orginal writings were re-translated, translated wrongly & even most during the Middle Ages. Those missing pieces very well may have contained a lot more information about Mary M. that was not put into the printed word.  
 
I in no way meant to minimize her presence in anyway to any of today's Christians.

RY ~ Here's your address:
 
1 Kellogg Square,
PO Box 3599,
Battle Creek, MI, 49016
 
Do you think you'll get the deciphering chart along with the ring or do you need 42 more box tops for that?...

rings,  I am pretty sure that the decoded ring says buy more coco puffs.  But if you doubt I have the other 40 box tops in my bottom desk drawer.  I actually went there when I was a kid.

not to my bottom desk drawer...but to the Kelloggs factory

Actually, the bottom desk drawer would be an excellent entrance to a secret passage for a kid.....

And, to reduce one's self to that size would entail lokking into a mirror through the wrong(?)end of binoculars...

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/42/index.html
 

And for all of us EyEsters to help in the adventure, we need those magic crayons, and that static cling screen to cover our monitor face.....Repeat after me, : Idon't wanna grow up.....

OMG, what a great conversation!  To put my two cents in, I thoroughly enjoyed The DaVinci Code -- it was a quick and interesting read!  In no way did I take it seriously.  I later read Angels & Demons (which I believe was written first) and found it somewhat tiresome -- maybe too much of the same thing!  My grandfather, a kind and highly intelligent man (still a legend in the family) was a freemason.  There was nothing secretive or evil about him.    I was raised Protestant, and I am now not affiliated with any church.  However, I find the rituals and symbols of the Catholic Church attractive.  There is something very spiritual and comforting there.

I, although not now a church goer, grew up a Catholic.
 
My Father was a Knight's of Columbus member.
 
And I got the impression that was or had some secretness to it too.
 
The DaVinci Code was a great read but fiction.
 
Fun but no more.
 
 

I have two hard copies of the Da Vinci Code, given (1 apiece) to my husband and myself by my MIL (yes, DreadPirate, and the same conversation) -- I can't imagine why, unless she forgot we were still living together in the same house as we have for eons, and  consequently I have two copies of the Da Vinci Code which I will pay someone to take off my hands. Brown's got a good gig going, but OH, it's a BORE. I would have thought his publishers might have poised the book for Christmas "delivery" if they have so much faith in it...I won't be reading it, but I do admire his creativity and ability to please the masses.   No pun intended, there. Masses, I mean, as in church "masses" and masses of people, which is in the end the same idea. I guess.    
  

The crayons and the screen!  Roadyacht,what a brilliant memory you have.  Now those are symbols with significance, that I can relate to:  We should write a book: The Crayons and The Screen. Move over Dan Brown.

I suddenly have an irresistable urge to learn Latin....... we must quickly change the subject to food before this one devours my soul!!!!!
 
Meanwhile and far away..... 

I've always been a wee bit suspicious of the guys in the red fez hats that are always in parades riding those tiny little motorcycles, midget cars and motorized magic carpets in figure eights.

peace out

Ok, I read Brown's other 2 Langdon books.  They were entertaining but not very challenging or deep, a lot of his conspiracy theory "evidence" is really just rumor and placed in the novels to make them more sensational.  They were the literary equivalent of cotton candy; fun, entertaining, desirable...but in the end to sticky and not enough substance. 
 
Did anyone else notice that the pattern and pace of both of his previous books were remarkably similar?  It was almost as if he had a generic outline for the novel and just filled in different plot points to fit both books into that outline.  I'll probably read this third one too, but I doubt he'll make the jump from mental junk food to a real meat and potatoes feast.

Sue:   Forget  the  OFFICIAL  version  as  to  how  Rings90  got  her  golden  retriever  back.   Since  we  are  all  one  happy  virtual  family,   I  took  the  liberty  of  spreading  the  rumor  that  since  Apollo  disappeared  in  the  rain  his  owner  had  taken  in  a  cat,  who  had  eaten  all  of  his  food  and  was  sleeping  in  his  favorite  spot.....   This  technique  works  every  time.

OK..I spent time today trying to decipher the symbolism in the Eye's Versailles Hoof-Pick Belt.  (upper left)  If I see a person about town wearing one, my first instinct would be  to think he/she is one of you.  I'd go up to you and introduce myself, but I have not been sent the secret hand shake, I know of no passwords.  Am I the only one?

I feel a bit left out since I've never read (and have no desire to read) the Da Vinci Code -- or to see the movie.  As for the Masons, my eyes glaze over with the little I've read about them, especially since so much of it is (a) unbelievable, (b) speculative, and (c) boring.   As a former Roman Catholic, I never found 'The Church' to be especially mysterious, perhaps because as an altar boy I had to memorize the Latin for the mass.  Some Spaniards are obsessed with the dangers of Opus Dei, but I've always figured that if they take over the world it won't make much difference to my day-to-day life.  I guess I guess I just find conspiracies uninteresting.  Am I the only guy who sees it that way?

It's hard enough finding groups of people in everyday life who are interested in cooperating with each other to acheive worthwhile goals.... maybe we could organize a conspiracy designed to manufacture and deliver software that works with help screens that are actually helpful?  Now, THAT would be a conspiracy I would totally support!

Well Doc that depends on what kind of belt buckle you are wearing.  If it ain't a Versailles Hoof-Pick Belt then your're not alone as there is a least one more.

Oh, let me go on record that Douglas Adams' version of the universe is no more or less believable than every other myth invented since the beginning of time.... though personally I think Kurt Vonnegut's version is more to my taste.  I think I've worked for some Vogons in my lifetime, but that's pure speculation on my part.  As for Urth being demolished to make way for a hyperspace bypass, sounds reasonable to me.... and at the risk of being denounced (once again) it sounds more likely than some of the stories recorded in the sacred writings of the three monotheistic religions currently vying for supremacy over the human population of Urth.  Then again, I may die and find out I was mistaken.... waiting to see....

...no - but I saw the movie.

Oh, one reason not to care about conspiracies: if they decide anyof us are insects to be crushed, each of us can imitate the lowly cockroach, scuttling out of harm's way before the jackbooted and steel-toed foot crushes us into oblivion.  I've known some folks who only exist because their parents used this strategy in the 1940s.

PARK4 & ROADYACHT:  The Crayons and Saran Wrap for the TV Screen was the gimmick that let us participate in an early 50's Cartoon Show , starring a little character called, Winky-Dink .......  1952 to 1954, I think .......  And if I remember correctly, my Decoder Ring came from, Captain Marvel, for two Sugar Crisp Box Tops and twenty-five cents in coin ... and that was before the Bear .......

that belt is a good looking belt, plus the utility.  works wonders in my secret world.  the stuff dreams are made of. 

sue: Having thoroughly enjoyed The Name of the Rose, I've been meaning to read Foucault's Pendulum but haven't gotten to it - will have to make a trip to the library soon.  Thanks for the recommendation.
 
Years ago I waded through The Word, an incredibly long & badly-written novel about a man who finds what purports to be a fifth gospel, and decided I wouldn't bother with any more books like that - probably why I skipped Da Vinci Code & its sequels.
 
korthal:  yes, there is some secret stuff connected with joining the Knights of Columbus.  My husband did it and he couldn't tell me what was involved in the initiation rites - but I'm sure it wasn't anything sinister or he wouldn't have done it!
 
There was an interesting program about the Masons in the USA, on either PBS or the History Channel. (They also had one on the Templars, very interesting in spite of the silly re-enactments - I find History Channel works better if you treat it as a radio program and don't look too much).  I learned that a lot of the founding fathers were Masons, and the group was quite powerful in the early 19th Century.  I've also been told, by a penpal who lives in Utah, that Mormon temples are full of Masonic symbols!  However, I think they have very little influence these days - except for the Shriners in the bumper cars, who show up at all our local parades, I don't think I've ever met one.   I know some Elks, Red Men, Lions, Kiwanis - but no Masons.
 
Apparently in Europe it's a different story - they're very anti-Catholic over there.  A French lady once told me that a friend of hers was going to join, because her husband was a member & asked her to - but during the initiation they wanted her to spit on a Bible and trample on a crucifix.  (She declined, and later divorced.)
 
Also, don't forget the passage in War & Peace where Pierre joins the Masons, expecting to learn deep dark cosmic secrets, and ends up feeling it's all a bit silly.  They don't give him a decoder ring, but he does get some weird stuff - I especially remember a pair of "Masonic gloves" for his wife.
 
Personally, I think I'd rather belong to the Royal Society For Putting Things on Top of Other Things - I already qualify, given the state my house is in...
 
 

Winky-Dink!  Thank you, Ivan!
 Oh that was fun!  I think the Fifties was a great time for being a Kid.  A striped tee shirt, a pair of red Keds, a lunch bag, and 2 cents for milk money, that was school.  And Winky Dink and drawing on your round television screen, that was "home."  Life was awfully good. As I recall.

And Doc Nolan?  I think you're right on the money with your theories about Theories and so forth.  So no, you're not the only guy who feels like that. Although I'm not a guy, but I didn't figure that matters in matters of Da Vinci Code stuff...

The utility of it. Ha!  It sure would be perfect for you, cuukoo, in that other world you live in.  giddyup
!

I have my towel and my Romper Room Do Bee ring...I'm ready for anything!

a towel, a mason jar and a ring of like minds.....
 
symbols in art are facinating to me...especially the abstract of the simplitic.  broadcast in multiple media forms and forums.
 
prohabition brought out a lot of interesting symbolic formats.

nachista - In the Hitchhiker's Guide..., the secret to healthy hitchhiking is to eat junk food!

take for example:
red horse
http://www.judylarson.com/redhorse.html

Might I sugest Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco instead?  its all of the hermeticaly sealed shenanigans, none of the literary trash.

Mormon temples are full of biblical symbols, not masonic symbols.  There is nothing sinister about them. 
 
The symbols were actually adopted by freemasons from their work on ancient temples, then changed to fit the freemasons ideaology...they are not original to that brotherhood by any stretch of the imagination.
 
There is nothing sinister about Masons.  I know several and they are wonderful men, never forget that their motto is "To make good men better" not "Kill 'em all" (not that I have anything against marines either ;)  ).  I toured the masonic meeting hall in St. Johns Newfoundland and found the Mason leading the tour informative, forthright, and very friendly.  There was nothing secret about it.  They prefer to keep somethings to themselves, that's fine it is called privacy...it doesn't mean they are plotting world domination
 
Symbols are used all over the world and in general they only have the power that each person puts into them.  Does a sherrif's badge magically stop bullets?  No.  Symbols are used because they are an easy way to teach and remember.  If you want to talk about misinterpreted and falsely maligned symbols, please talk to my friend Cordie who is wiccan.

Kindlee I thought Douglas Adams secret to universal travel was a towel and the hitchhiker's guide!

My great Grandfather was a Mason ~ I have no idea as to why or any really great stories about him being one.  I'm a guide for one of the Historical Cemetary Walks in the area & I learned that the Free Masons tend to put symbols on their tombstones  signifing they were in the order. I have no idea as to what they actually mean if it's any thing other than that though..
 
As a side note 1 of the locally "famous" guys buried there died on the Titanic his Crypt is on the top of a hill that over looks the city & the Fox River.. Which I happen to find kind of funny...  

DPR, the Last Supper was a fresco...no canvas, it was painted directly onto the wall.

It seems that a lot of people confuse sacred with secret, and will clamor at the gates for entrance to anything that seems beyond their grasp for the reason that they feel like they should know everything...what was it the bible said?  "Throw ye not your pearls before swine?".  Just because you aren't included in someone else's rituals doesn't mean that said rituals are wrong or evil...or great and wonderful...it just means it is special to them and they want to keep it private.
 
Who are we to insist on knowing everyone else's sacred beliefs or practises, I find people demanding to know about my sacred religious beliefs as intrusive as if they'd barged into my bedroom to see when my husband and I do behind closed doors...we are rarely doing anything juicy and most of it is just boring, but it is MY boring and no one else has a right to intrude or judge.

That said...I believe learning about others beliefs with an open heart is a great way to build friendships and increase peace and understanding in this world.  Learn all you can but if someone isn't willing or cannot share something with you, don't assume the worst.

All seriousness aside, does anyone else have the Mason/Blackballing Bastards skit from Monty Python running through their head today?

nachista, how I do agree with you.  I cannot understand why some practise what they do, or why they do not, but if their practices and beliefs are theirs and do not affect mine in a small or large way (myself and my society), then what they do and think is their business and what I do and think is mine.
 
And if the twain never meets in that area of life, why, that's fine with me, and I would think it would be fine for the other guy too.
 
I don't understand the need to tell all, nor do I understand the need for me to listen to someone else telling all.  I don't understand others needing to tell me their all, or wanting me to believe in and practice what they do.
 
I think we should all practice what we preach, and we should preach only unto ourselves.  Some things are private, and that's all there is to that.  Nothing bad, nothing interesting -- just my own.
 
If I spelled it out, you'd be bored silly.

Foucault is a thinking person's Dan Brown, but he's just as murky...and Dan Brown writes Harry Potter stuff for grownups.
I bought the illustrated edition, for the real purty pitchers. It's almost as good as the movie!
I wouldn't buy that quote either, since it's a bit wobbly...
 
Religion is the opium/opiate of the people, often misquoted masses; specifically, the masses who'd rather believe (or are programmed to believe) in imaginary friends than face reality, which to me is far cooler than any of the wishful thinking and fairy stories that make up most of the text of the world's religions. Variations of the quote appear in de Sade's L'Histoire de Juliette and Marx's Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the Right, and even Charles Kingsley, Canon of the Church of England, fires off a broadside in the same pattern. They all refer to religion's sedative influence on people who would be better off concentrating their energies on THIS world.
But that takes real effort, and 'prayer' is so much easier...
 

I've got some zinc lids for the sacred Mason jars in my basement

I would add that it's terribly funny and not a little ironic that people criticize Brown for presenting his book as perhaps somewhat factual in origin while uncritically and piously accepting the historical novel called the Bible as fact.
I'd say far less harm has come of considering The DV Code factual than considering the Bible to be so...
 
Atheism is fun, and the cookies are way better than the Girl Scouts! Be sure to buy some when the little atheist kids come around next time.
No transubstantiated fats either!

You know, John...the guy in charge of rebuilding the German Navy advised plating all of the new ships with zinc to alleviate rust, but Hitler was having none of it, especially for his prized battleship.
He didn't want ANYONE to zinc the Bismarck...

I'd rather read Dee Brown!

The church officials kept Kingsley busy as much as possible, so that he mostly stayed in his office or safe at home.
He was rather volatile, so they say, and consequently there was some concern at the time about a loose Canon...
 
I'm just getting warmed up!
 
 

Good on ye, Bridie-there's a grand auld Arkansas lad himself!

For 6 months, pledges (me) were told about our "ritual" and "initiation" and of course the stories were stories of legend and myth, designed to scare the lving whatevers out of us, when our day came to officially join the sisterhood that was old old old, steeped in Southern history and tradition, and probably would require that we be humiliated or hurt in some way that wouldn't show and would fade quickly, all but the memory.
 
And all I can say about that day was that it was a let-down.  We waited for the Big Deal Stuff to be revealed to us, and yes, we learned the Most Secret Word, and the Handshake, and why the candles were the color they were, and why the flowers were what they were, and how we were to uphold the standards of our sisterhood in such as way as to make Those Who Came Before Us very proud, wherever they were at the moment of our taking the Pledge.
 
And then we went to the Bar in Campus Town, and drank a lot of beer and played fooze ball and waited for our boyfriends to get there, so we could leave with them and go out to someplace else.
 
Taken all in all, it was an utterly un-illuminating experience. 
 
Ron Howard wanted to make a movie out of it, but Dan Brown got his story to him first.
 
 
 
 

nachista - Not that it's that important, but, in addition to a towel and the Hitchhiker's Guide... "Fruit and berries on strange planets either make you live or make you die. Therefore the point at which to start toying with them is when you're going to die if you don't. That way you stay ahead. The secret to healthy hitchhiking is to eat junk food."
--Ford Prefect, "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe", pages 211-212

I've read all his books and love getting lost in the story.  My copy is already paid for at Alibris.

Novels aren't supposed to reveal anything we didn't know - they're just supposed to help you believe that it's possible.  As Lucia Turin said about a great fashion fragrance, "It creates a memory of a place that never existed."  There was also an extensive southern Masons society that faded away after the civil war.  The "Free and Accepted Masons" is the northern one.  I think I read that there are a few of the old-line southern lodges left. 
In any case, a Dan Brown novel should have at least one character making use of a J.P. Poacher's Coat - it was made for this sort of thing.
 
If I get the gist of some of the above, Aleister Crowley, the self-proclaimed "Beast 666", left the Order of the Golden Dawn when he found out that the Abominable Words of Evocation were just some old Hebrew names - and, like Plato, he exposed everything.

Nachista,
 
You're quite right.  The "canvas" part was inaccurate.  But the general gist of the question remains:  Does painting a massive clue on an enormous wall for all the world to see serve as proof that you were entrusted with the keeping of the secret?

Schadenfroide   I hope that spelling is close enough to the word.          I think the secret handshake is a form of that~ we are better than you~you are not one of us         You would think the whole of history,around the world,went to my high school.    p.s., I didn't join    As Groucho said "I wouldn't join a group that would have me"  (paraphrased)

At least Dan Brown's books have caused a greater interest in Masonry.

Paul Murphy... You inspired me to look it up... She said a lot of stuff, but this is an explanation of the legend:

After learning of the bread shortages that were occurring in Paris at the time of Louis XVI's coronation in Rheims, tradition persists that Marie Antoinette joked "If they have no bread, then let them eat cake!" — or simply Qu'ils mangent de la brioche — "Let them eat cake." However this phrase occurs in a passage of Jean-Jacques Rousseau's Confessions written in 1766, when Marie Antoinette was 10 years old, and still 4 years away from her marriage to Louis XVI of France. It occurs in an account of events that happened before she was born and implies the phrase had been long known before that time. Rousseau mentions that in 1740: I recollected the thoughtless saying of a great princess, who, on being informed that the country people had no bread, replied, "Then let them eat pastry!" He makes no identification of this princess, whom some believe may have been an earlier French queen, Maria Theresa of Spain. Further information on this matter can be found at The Straight Dope, "On Language" by William Safire at The New York Times, and in the discussions at Google groups.

Just remembered a great story related to the Southern branch of Masonry.  A reporter was interviewing an old farmer who made some very anti-Catholic remarks.   Suddenly the reporter noticed a framed photo of Pope Pius XII on the wall, and asked the obvious question.  "Good heavens," responded the man, "is that the Pope?  I thought it was Harry Truman in his Masonic robes!"
 
BTW, I agree with all the people who pointed out the Masons' good qualities - I really don't think there's anything sinister about them these days, at least not in America.  (In France, as I noted in my earlier post, it seems to be a different story.)  Here, they're just another fraternal lodge trying to do good works and help their members.  (The Knights of Columbus was started partly to help Catholic working men, who weren't welcome at other lodges, to get life insurance.)