Ah, the hubris of man. One suspects that Pluto would not deign the label of mere mortals of much import. Pluto is simply what it is. Pocket-protector wearing geeks should find better things to do with their time.

Since I managed to avoid astronomy as an elective in college, my knowledge consists of whatever I learned on Star Trek and Star Wars. The idea of major and minor planets seems to make sense. But I think scientific debate sometimes devolves into the scholastic equivalent of arguing about how many angels could sit on the head of pin. Interesting debate, totally irrelevant.

Now, the idea of using "Pluto" as a verb is more interesting. When a deal falls through I can say I was "plutoed" or maybe "the deal went Pluto". It's a shorter way of saying "the deal went Humpty-Dumpty". Perhaps it could be a synonym for being made irrelevant. For example, "George Bush's second term has gone Pluto". "Hillary has Plutoed ". News flash: the Delta Force just Plutoed Bin laden. So many possibilites, so little time.

To: LaDonna,

Thank you! You're a true Lady! You're intelligent and creative, and you have two rare qualities: humor and honesty. The very best to you in your career as an artist!

I can't wait to try Nigella's recipe for mince meat....thanks for letting me know.

Enjoy your morning coffee.............

"Spoilsport with a better telescope" was once, in so many words, a popular definition for Galileo. He might also, had the term been invented, be considered the original "pocket-protector wearing geek". And he too was criticized for saying things that were not kindly received, flew in the face of popular psychology, and considered sufficiently unimportant that he should find better things to do with his time.

Not since Galileo's day have I heard of so much uproar over the classification of planets. And, once again, the reasons appear to be socio-political. But Pluto is not a human being. Hell, it isn't even a CREATURE. It's an inanimate hunk of rock! Why are we referring to this cold, lifeless mass of stone as "the little guy" or speaking of it in terms of hope, demotions, or identity crises?

Science is about determining evidence and reaching a logical conclusion based on the facts. If we have been mistaken about Pluto's identity since it's discover eight decades ago, let's have the honesty to say so. We are not discussing a matter of opinion here; we are discussing a question of fact.

As for applying Pluto's fate to ourselves, we already do. We've been doing it since long before the discovery of Pluto. Whenever someone fails to live up to certain standards of morality, killing or raping his neighbor, torturing or molesting a child, wreaking tyrannical havoc on the people, one of the first words we use to describe him is "inhuman". We call him "beast" or "animal".

The word "human" carries with it a certain definition. So does the word "planet". The creature or the celestial body in question either has the attributes that fit the definition or it does not.

The problem is, Dread Pirate, that human did carry a definition. Planet did not. Until that fateful meeting which "plutoed" pluto, there was no technical definition. It was sort of unspoken. Everyone just knew what was and wasn't a planet. Then, as astronomers found more and more objects, that system didn't work. Pluto got caught up in the bureaucracy of the astronomers, and sadly they didn't grandfather it in. If they did, I don't suppose anyone would notice the new definition.

I must take issue with the phrase, "Everyone just knew what was and wasn't a planet." How? How did they "just know"? When the word "planet" was first coined, the coiner knew exactly what he meant. If people have been carelessly bandying the word about since then, they owe us an apology.

But the word DID carry a definition. The difference between a planet, a moon, a star, and an asteroid has been well understood in the scientific community. A celestial body that orbits a star takes on one title while the one that orbits that celestial body takes on another. And, if astronomers are discovering that they need to be more specific than they had been before in order to clarify their communications, then this is a sign of progress, humility, and a genuine interest in precise fact finding.

And why, Mr. Roush, do we find it sad that Pluto wasn't grandfathered in? I repeat, Pluto is a name that WE gave to a cold, lifeless, hunk of rock. I am not in the habit of feeling sad for inanimate objects. I reserve my feelings of sadness for human beings and the occasional animal for whom I feel sentimental.

Perhaps people simply resent needing to say, "My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us NOTHING!"

Pluto is a Kuiper belt object and is not on the same ecliptic plane as the other, proper planets. Of course the asteroid belt is on that ecliptic plane and it is not a planet either. As a "dwarf planet" Pluto is not even the largest of that classification; that honor goes to Eris.

As for astrology, I often wonder how the practitioners of that ancient ancient 'science" figured in the effects of planetary bodies that were virtually unknown before modern times. I hear that you can even get an asteroid reading these days.

Perhaps we should point our telescopes in the opposite direction and direct some of that seemingly abundant intellectual (though perhaps misguided) firepower towards something a bit more pragmatic such as protecting our planet and its inhabitants from being either deleted from or added to some list that's mainly being used in some galactic trivial pursuit game. But hey, what do I know. I just live here.

In the words of Douglas Adams, "so long and thanks for all the fish".

Ok, I have to be honest here, I had to go to Cafepress.com and check out the tee shirts. The teacher in me came out, besides I think this will be perfect to wear to the dog park..."If Pluto isn't a planet, What are we supposed to do with all those Styrofoam science project balls?"

ExPat, Good Morning!

"My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us NOTHING!"

Dear Dread ~ I don't think teachers in today's age would be able to use this phrase ~ it may be offensive to the kids in the class who went to bed without dinner the night before.

Besides I know I would rather be served the Nine Pizzas. I would have to say My mother who served me nothing would not be considered very educated in my opinion.

I guess I agree with South-Side John ~ It's not like this is the discovery/understanding of the Earth revolving around the sun rather than the sun revolving around the earth.

It seems to me that it was more of a whim of a bunch of scienetists who haven't had a break through discovery & now the world has to live with it.

Quite honestly I hate to think of the fights this is going to cause the poor students who parents don't understand or believe that Pluto is no longer a planet & insist that their children include on thier Solar Systems.

The poor kid gets a lower grade becuase their parents learned about the Nine Pizzas... Not about being Served Nothing.....

Pizzas? PIZZAS??? I always learned "Nine Pickles!" Pizzas?????

You are quite right, rings90, that this is not on the level of learning that the Earth revolves around the sun instead of vice-vera or the Earth being spherical instead of flat (sorry to break it to ya). But that's why I don't understand why it's causing such a brouhaha. As Mr. Peterman says, the scientists are flabbergasted that everyone cares so much about Pluto. At the end of the day, it's not all that important.

But there's something very important to remember here: Pluto is not an ex-panet. It is erroneous to say that it is "no longer" a planet. Pluto was never a planet. We CALLED it a planet since 1930. What we have learned is that we were mistaken to do so.

The other day, Mr. Peterman mentioned that one of a cowboy's admirable traits is that he didn't mind admitting when he was wrong. That is what the astronomers have done. They had been calling Pluto a planet for two generations. When they realized they were mistaken, they corrected the error. A lot of stubborn teachers could stand to learn a lesson in humility here.

To: LaDonna,

Thanks for the "Good Morning".

I went to cafepress.com after reading your comment. Cool site! I found tee-shirts for people (crazy people like me) who compete in triathlons......thanks so much for the link!

As to Pluto's non-planet status, I find it fascinating how many people have died over the years who probably believed Pluto was a planet. The information we cary in our minds is often erroneous, and we don't even know it.

I wonder if the ancient Romans realized that Pluto, the God of the Underworld (the dead) would be made irrelevant (Plutoed) by Christianity?

“Alas, poor Pluto! I knew him, Horatio; a planet of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy; that hath borne me on its back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.” a planet no more.

Well as my dear ol' Dad used to say, " Time to go before I overstay my welcome".

La Donna, cafepress.com is pretty awesome. They have a great Douglas Adams and "Hitchikers Guide" collection too.

Declaring that Pluto is not a planet is like declaring lemons will now be called marbles. I think it upsets a lot of people because the average person finds the "declaration" to be meaningless. The reclassification only has some relevance to an extremely small percentage of the world's population, (a.k.a. the professional astronomers,) but to the rest of us, it's just annoying and silly. Even the amateur astronomers think it's lame.

Personally, I think that only the orbiting bodies that you can land on should be considered "planets". That means Uranus and Neptune are out. Sorry gas giants, you have to have a core in order to play. Even Saturn and Jupiter have a core. No surface, no love, baby.

I'm thinking since Pluto is no longer a planet the Dolphins didn't go there....

Although I am still wondering if they ended up at the Resturant at the End of the Universe... I guess it would depend on on which way you feel the end is..
(I am ashamed to say I still never have found time finish that Trilogy.. Which is a shame... )

I am also now wondering what exactly Mickey Mouse's dog is named after? It really shows a dark side to Disney if its being credited to the Roman God of the Underworld.......

rings90 said: "I am also now wondering what exactly Mickey Mouse's dog is named after? It really shows a dark side to Disney if its being credited to the Roman God of the Underworld......."

Have you seen Fantasia? I seem to remember a dark figure with horns & wings somewhere in that one.

gasp.... does this also mean that plutonium is no longer an official language!

Now I have overstayed my welcome. I'll be reading ya tomorrow!

It doesn't really matter in which column astronomers place Pluto. The important thing is that it has a name, and thus will be a real thing forever after no matter what its classification. So many objects in the heavens have nothing more than a number (including many of the infinitely more interesting Messier objects), that, nameless, draw little interest or attention outside of the scientific community.

It's been a few years but I've seen Fantasia I remember some "darker" images from the film but I have always felt that it wasmore of an interpretation of the music rather than anything more significant.

I just fear that the use of naming Mickey's dog after the Roman God of the Underworld though may cause some moms to go further off the deep end....

Sorry to be so late getting into the fray. ..(took a nap).. Science is all about classification. Look at the "scientific" names of plants and animals. That's all they are, names that classify the plant or animal into a string of categories: family, order, genus, species. With better understanding of the science behind a discipline that classification will change. Way back in the Middle Ages when I went to college, there were only two biological kingdoms: plants and animals. Now there are five. This happens all the time in biology. Anyway, the concept of "classification" is simply for scientific pigeonholing for better understanding and clarification, so, in the real world, who cares? Ever wonder just where the alien astronomers place Earth in their classification system? Do they even place our solar system into any sort of worthwhile category? Maybe we are being a bit too ethnocentric, to use a term from an earlier discussion. Folks, Pluto is a rock. Period. Pretty good sized rock, but a rock. No matter what you call it, it is a rock. Deal with it.

ticking thyme bomb said... "What? Pluto isn't a planet? Next you'll be telling me that Columbus didn't discover America."

No, silly! It was the Americans who discovered Columbus. But only after they discovered the Vikings.

La Donna said...

"Ok, I have to be honest here, I had to go to Cafepress.com and check out the tee shirts. The teacher in me came out, besides I think this will be perfect to wear to the dog park..."If Pluto isn't a planet, What are we supposed to do with all those Styrofoam science project balls?""

Holy crap, that's too funny! I nearly did a spit take reading that. I'm having flashbacks to my youth. The colors! They styrofoam! The wire hangers!

La Donna, you have done a great service today with that web site. I too, have been there and found some wonderful things. Thanks ever-so.

Agent666 & Spinner, so good to hear from you, and I'm so glad that you are enjoying Cafepress! It is good for a laugh!

ticking thyme bomb, I know, this place is full of hard facts sometimes. I learned that Castro is dead, and Elvis is alive, and now, Pluto isn't a planet!

ExPat....so, are you going to share which triathlon tee shirt you picked!?!

South-Side John, you can not over stay your welcome here!

DeadPirateRoberts, I wanted to say, that you said something very nice about myself and ExPat yesterday, it was noted. Thank You!

To: LaDonna,

There were so many good triathlon tee-shirts, but I chose one that said "The Journey is the Reward". Under that phrase is swim 2.4 , bike 112, run 26.2

I liked it because it really is about the journey......the finish is, well, the finish is just the end. It's the getting there that matters. It sums up my philosophy.

I used to like "Failure is not an Option". Sometimes "failure" happens and you have to embrace it and continue on the journey. Failure is not a goal. It's the journey afterall. I think the victory is in the journey, the struggle, the survival against the odds. Winning is a by-product.

Those who object to Pluto’s demotion are like the people who insisted the world was flat even after Magellan sailed around it.

When the theory of a round Earth first emerged, many resisted it because when one reality is so deeply engrained, it’s hard to take a step back and open up to new possibilities. Questioning things you’ve “known” to be true for so long is scary cuz that leads to the inevitable: chaos.

But like Mark Sykes said, science is a process of constant revision, as it should be. As we learn knew facts, old ones become false, and that’s a good thing! That’s moving forward!

I say sayonara, Pluto. You had your 15 minutes. Give my best to Prohibition, cassette tapes, Chumbawamba, and all the other things progress left behind.

Well after this discussion I think I'll just stay up all night and howl at the Moon before someone strips away it's magic (which I usually do on Wednesday night anyway)

And the moon IS full right now!

ExPat: My son swam competitively well into college. He had a wonderful coach in HS that never pushed winning. But he did insist upon hard work in practice and wanted to see a smile on your face when you finished an event at a meet because you were happy that you had done the best you could that day. And that is the short version of that tale.

Many things. But a note to Spinner: Names by which we know many plants, fewer animals and birds (some scholars say, "The greater number of...; others, "Most of...) were bestowed by eighteenth-century artist and writer William Bartram and/or his father John, Royal Botanist to the King of England.
Tracing their erxplorations,The Bartram Trail begins in Pennsylvania, limns the Eastern seabord, inches to Alabama. Among their most famous 'namings' is Franklinia Altamaha, after their friend Benjamin Franklin. Growing on the banks of Georgia's Altamaha River, it's found nowhere else in its wild state, as William noted in his journal, whose eventual publication made him the first 'travel writer' in the New World; many college curricula today include his book (which has the world's longest title, which I spare you).

It's Mr. Peterman's wont to make cogent observations, and again he does. I appreciate in particular his penultimate and ultimate paragraphs' provocative points, their good sense and universality filling desperate dark voids the times create in us: O tempore, O mores indeed! He expands weary-of-it-all minds to hold more than Pluto-as-we-knew-and-loved-it: We've space without limit, space for planets, stars, universes, galaxies, space for Pluto-in-every-guise, for possibilities beyond our dreaming.

TO: Spinner,

Your son had a swim coach to be proud of.

Someone will always be faster than you (in my case, that's a lot of someones) and someone will be slower than you (and, in my case, there's enough to give my ego a boost.) The challenege is overcoming your own limitations and (at the risk of sounding corny) be the champion of your own personal race.

Don't get me wrong, I am quite competitive and I like to win, but I realize at the end of the day, the end of your life, you can only give it everything you have. You gave it the best you could. You take a chance. So many people don't.

What is that old saying: it's better to have tried and failed, than to have never tried at all.

Perhaps Pluto is a metaphor for letting go. Which might explain why anyone cares.

To Georgia:

Ah, but here in the more central part of the country, Rafinesque was the naturalist of note. His "R" is after many a plant, aquatic animal, and other forms of life. The Falls of the Ohio, here at Louisville (and indeed, why the city is located where it is), is a fascinating collective of both animal and plant specimens found nowhere else and he was drawn to the area. The formation of the falls (actually more of a rapids than a "falls") is unique in its own right as it is a flat Devonian limestone shelf that is embedded with the most incredible fossil bed in North America. If you walk around it during times of low water, it looks like dead fish are just lying about on the stone. But they are indeed Devonian-era fish preserved in great detail.

Another interesting aside to Rafinesque is that he taught for some time at Transylvania University in Lexington. When he was given his leave, so to speak, he put a curse on the school which they celebrate every year to this day.
They are very proud of that curse. It does seem to be rather ineffective as Transy is a wonderful school and my daughter-in-law taught voice there during the 90's.

There have been some great comments here and there's yet another that occurs to me, inspired (provoked?) by Spearfish's note, "The reclassification only has some relevance to an extremely small percentage of the world's population, (a.k.a. the professional astronomers,) but to the rest of us, it's just annoying and silly. Even the amateur astronomers think it's lame."

My thought is this: We have been informed that Pluto is not a planet by the same scientific community (granted, in a later generation) that had initially informed us that it IS a planet. What makes this community any less reliable, any less believable, any less relevant, or any lamer now than they were then?

See? I again salute your insight and will vote twice for you in the next election!

DPR, to answer your last question, absolutely nothing. Be well

Spinner, I thought voting twice was only a south-side Chicago tradition.