Reefer Madness?

Dear God,

I love this site. So much that it's making me hungry. Off for some munchies. Will check back later to read about all my friends dark secrets with Mary Jane. Seriously bad case of the giggles over this one.

Miss Ive

I do not enjoy marijuana, neither by the bong nor by the rolled joint.  It seems to have no effect on me whatsoever and it tastes like excrement.  I prefer a Romeo y Julietta robusto cigar and a glass of Dow's port any day of the week.

Personal taste notwithstanding, I find the illegalization of marijuana unbearably silly.  For that matter, the same can be said of the farcical "War on Drugs".  The first thing you should know in any war is:  Where do I go to surrender?

I once met a professor in Georgia (a reformed down and out alcoholic, incidentally) who maintained that humans are inherently addictive.  I imagine today we'd say our dopaminic circuits (reward brain structures) are wired to make us do stuff that feels good.  Now, here's a twist:  Does the money that law enforcement and the incarceration industry make from prosecuting and (in some cases) incarcerating users of marijuana act as part of an 'addictive behavior' on their part (the money being the reward)?  If the federal government is 'addicted' to scooping up ready sources of money from minorities who have little power to oppose them, who is the addict? [I might note that the concept of addiction, much like that of 'closure', seems to be expanding year by year, as it now seems to firmly include tobacco, alcohol, a variety of hard drugs, marijuana, sex, and even food...]  Interestingly, back in my Air Force past, when 'mangagement' (the officer class) decided to put its foot down on drugs, it established an office of 'Alcohol and Drug Abuse'.  the senior NCOs weren't very happy that boilermakers were being lumped in with joints as 'a threat', but then, they weren't asked.  Fortunately for our military retirees,in civilian life, medical/clinical examination of deliterious effects have zero correlation with whether any given chemical is considered an 'illegal' drug.  It's based entirely on the democratic concept that if you can scare enough folks about anything, you can win an election.  (Research be damned!).  As to the question, 'Is it high time for the Federal Government to butt out?' I'd answer with another question: 'In what areas is the central government devolving power out to states and municipalities, reducing its own scope?'  With folks like Andrew Bacevich pointing out that the American people now demand an emperor (combination father figure, wise judge, stern punisher of evil, giver of gifts, religious leader, and so on) in their President, iit seems the American people have a bigger problem than puffing a joint: they are addicted to looking to Washington for guidance.  That's sort of like looking to your alcoholic uncle for advice on career planning.  It might work out, but it sure is 'iffy'.

I can't wait to pop in, and read this one throughout the day!

P.S. Am I the only one to notice that under the 'Fourth Estate' colum (above left), and next to the link marked 'Marijuana Grown in National Parks', there is a very pretty graphic of ENGLAND?  I can't help notice the Norfolk Broads (no they are NOT babes!) is marked in green... (Brain turning over and over....)

I read a great article on medical marijuana in the New Yorker recently ( escaping lobsters on the cover) and was struck later by this: the writer traveled to California and made connections through a childhood friend. A little perspective, please. One friend is writing two thousand word pieces for the most prestigious magazine in  the country and the other one is selling pot out on the coast...

Oh, this will be good..

Our politicians are always pushing our buttons about 'less government' and deregulation and so forth, but I believe and fervently hope that anyone paying attention understands that what they mean is less regulation of their quest for money and power in back rooms, less financial oversight of white collar crime (which provides enormous kickbacks in the form of campaign contributions), less intrusion into the offices of power and its exercise in Corporate America. There is a large body of government employees with a vested interest in the continuation of public and private persecution of those engaging in personal pursuit of pleasure that is not state-approved.

It is well-documented that our legal drugs-tobacco, alcohol, prescription medications, gasoline, sugar, television, to name the (in my humble estimation) most common and most insidious-are far more dangerous, ubiquitous, and addictive than marijuana or even cocaine and opioids. After decades, nay centuries, of education versus obfuscation (history informs us that King James quickly banned tobacco after Raleigh introduced it into society. He somehow failed to transmit the instructions for use from Native Americans-moderation, best for ritual consumption only. As late as the 1980s Big Tobacco was still producing studies attempting to cast doubt on the perils of tobacco use.), the deleterious effects of cigarettes are widely understood, and addiction is diminishing. The same may be said for alcohol, to a more limited degree, as we do not yet promote a general understanding of the downside of alcohol abuse with the same vigor that tobacco education has been undertaken. We may still be experiencing some vestiges of backlash from Prohibition, a misguided and doomed social experiment from which we as a society have apparently learned very little. Anthropological studies show that every society of which we have any knowledge maintains some mechanism for altering consciousness. It appears to be a fundamental requirement of human nature, and so, while futile to prosecute, there may be benefits to be had through general knowledge of the effects of various intoxicants. It is well seen that sex education lowers the incidence of unplanned pregnancy and sexually-transmitted disease in young people. Would not drug education have a similar salutory effect? I think it's worth a try. The French provide us with an object lesson in this matter. Older children are allowed to drink well-diluted wine with their dinner in many households, and no paranoia or punishment-rather, a promotion of prudent use-results. Alcoholism in France, and its attendant societal ills, is a significantly lesser problem than we grapple with. Children learn by example that the responsible use of intoxicants is an adult activity, and someday they will have that option, should they choose it. Here we criminalize, romanticize, and avoid discussion other than denial and proscription, of these powerful substances. It seems clear to me that this is not a successful strategy.

Government-sponsored scientific research has striven for many years to find and enumerate the negative consequences of cannabis use, and has largely failed, if objective results are studied. The Caribbean countries provide us with a cursory overview of tolerance-casual cultures with low incidences of pulmonary pathologies secondary to the use of quite powerful strains of the plant. One may opine that they are benighted and squalid also (when one examines what lies behind the facade of tourist entertainment), but it may be argued that the ravages of colonialism should answer rather than the inhabitants' resort to relief by tetrahydrocannabinol.

What IS apparent, however, is that cannabis is a cheap, safe, and effective medicament for some applications:

It decreases intraocular pressure to slow the deterioration of sight in patients suffering with glaucoma.

It provides supplemental analgesia and appetite stimulation in patients enduring the diffculties of chemotherapy and radiation therapy for cancer.

There is a large body of anecdotal evidence of benefit in a wide ranging group of disorders including gastroenteritis, pruritis, dysmenorrhea, depression, insomnia, arthritis, childbirth, ADD, and tinnitus.

Now, if Big Pharma had the patent on such a drug, you can bet anything you like that they would be singing its praises in doctor's offices and via media blitz, and research facilities across the nation would be doing more studies to attempt to verify these applications. Unfortunately, cannabis (marijuana is just Spanish for 'MaryJane', but you knew that) is a weed that is easy to grow and process into usable product, Therefore the pharmaceutical industries would prefer to market extremely dangerous and questionable chemotherapeutic agents with large profit margins, and the FDA, which should be understood to be largely a government agency for product promotion more than a consumer protection body (much like the USDA), run by executives drawn from the very industries they are charged to regulate, has generally complied with corporate pharmaceutical desire to get drugs to market ASAP. As with thalidomide and Vioxx (to name just a couple of widely-known and notorious examples), testing is often inadequate, with tragic results.

Much of this difficulty I believe may be attributed to a misguided medical system that has devolved into a dysfunctional process that must maintain itself, however inefficiently, by profiting from human misery. We who work with patients find frustration in the limitations imposed by bureaucracy, for I would suppose that the majority of those in medical professions WANT to help, and wish to provide all needed care, but find themselves shackled by the constraints of Market Medicine, which is no way to run an entity that most Americans now feel lacks a true commitment to health care for all.

In much the same way, our law enforcement bodies have developed an unhealthy taste for the benefits of persecution of those who wish to relieve the quotidian burden of stress and anxiety by the private use of intoxicants. The residuals of Calvinist dogma that sanctions authoritative intrusion into private life, and frowns overmuch on (one hopes) victimless pleasures of the flesh now results in jails overflowing with nonviolent offenders while violent sociopaths are released before their time is served, police officers cruising the streets in Corvettes and Lexuses fitted with lights and sirens and shields on the doors bearing the motto 'To serve and protect' (some may find this hypocritical in the extreme), and frequent local scandals related to corruption in the legal system. Again, I hope that most of the persons working in that system are people of good will who wish to truly serve and protect, but are again constrained by the nature of the construct.

It seems I have mounted the pulpit once again, and I apologize for the rant and its length. This is a wide-ranging and interconnected societal problem, the tendrils of which I perceive often in my practice, and which I am passionate about. It, they, are difficult to deal with but crying out for a national debate and discussion. Too much of this goes on behind closed doors, not enough light is shed on all aspects of our medical and legal system, and the results are, bluntly, unnecessary suffering and death. There is a better way to address these issues, and we as a society should begin to take steps to illuminate and pursue a more humane and civilized public policy.

My thoughts seem to be amazingly already well-expressed by DPR above. I've never tried turbo cabbage, but no way could it trump a good Cuban cigar.

Ah, the wacky weed.  Quite frankly, it amazes me that the government is "sticky" on this issue.  One could argue the affects of alcohol vs. marijuana on the body... but we all know there's a deeper issue at hand... has to be.

I wager that our grand government has more vested in the weed cartel than we know.  I imagine if they legalized "Puff the Magic Dragon", they'd lose more than they would gain...  Just what does happen to the tons of hash that's confiscated every year??? hmmm

Oh, I have to run.  The local PD is having a brownie sale.

"Is it high time we tell the Federal Government to butt out?"

Yes. 

So, Wheatgrass, exactly what kind of grass is growing in your avatar?

Personally, I don't smoke the stuff. Nor do I wish to smell somebody's second-hand smoke. However, I'm not opposed to the legalization of the stuff. Or at least the government not whipping itself into a frenzy over this. I wonder if the wacky weed had as powerful a lobby as big tobacco if we would be having this dicussion at all.

Wheatgrass,

If they're running a BOGO sale, bring me one, would ya?

Still giggling. Am such a child.

I'm seriously not a pothead, regardless of how much I giggle, and munch!

Can I tell you guys a story that somes up my 'dance with Mary Jane?' First, am I going to get arrested? I think not. Okay.

So I'm 25. Had smoked here and there in college, but never bought. Girls rarely have to. Ahhhh. . .love being a girl.

I've been a freelance journalist since I finished undergrad and I have a new baby boy who I would desperately like to stay at home with. So I decide to pitch a column to the biggest newspaper in my county. I go to the editor, a 40ish-year-old woman and tell her that I want to write a satirical home improvement column about a 20-something girl who is always attempting to pull of Martha Stewart-esque projects and failing horribly. It was all very Bridget Jones does Martha.

Anyway, she was interested. So she arranged another meeting closer to my neck of the woods. A lunch meeting. We ate. She drank. Then I drank because she did. I was young and trying to impress, following her move, so to speak.

So we get in my car after lunch and I'm driving through 'Pleasant View Town, USA' in the middle of the afternoon and she pulls out a joint. Mind you, we really hit if off at lunch. Also, mind you, her husband IS A JUDGE!!! Freaked me out.

I turn and look at the back seat and see my son's empty car seat and I'm sitting at a busy intersection. And I REALLY WANT THIS COLUMN SO THAT I CAN STAY AT HOME WITH SAID SON. And I tell her, Yes, sorry, I mind. Jail time would not be good for me right now. She smiled. And so did I.

And she gave me the column. And we had several late night meetings for months after that in the privacy of one of our homes that included smoking and plotting the trajectory of the column. She's awesome.

A time and place, people!!!

DPR and Mark Swaim:  Did you take the time to really inhale and hold it???  I think you should try again. In my first attempts I had similar results... until a "Pro" made fun of me and showed me the "ropes"

Agent666: Um it's wheatgrass... Back off man! What?! Who's there?! :)

Missive: Will do. Bag(s) of chips???

Seriously, there is more at hand here over the legalization of marijuana... The rest of the world has it right... (Booking my trip to Amsterdam)

If mary jane ever got legalized, I'm so opening a chain of eateries next to hooka lounges.

Anyone watch Weeds? The episode where she learns how to 'bake' is so pretty. Full of fun food. Ummmm. . .

Agent666,

You're an entrepreneur! Send me a business proposal, we'll chat.

I do have to say that I wonder what it does to lung capacity. I hate cigarettes. But I love how French women do it so well. And, as a runner, I like to keep my lungs fit. But, I think the two hits I take at a Steely Dan concert annually are not enough to worry about. I'm all over the map today. Does pot help A.D.D.?

Wheatgrass,

Yes, lots please. And thank you.

As I'm under the age of 18, I automatically have to agree with everything here. [damn peer pressure]
But seriously, marijuana is no more harmful than anything legal in the US today. I mean come on, we're aloud to have guns. GUNS THAT GO BANG AND KILL PEOPLE, but we're not aloud to have an organic substance that makes people relax.
If it were legal, however, I doubt much would change 'round these parts.
If you want to smoke, you do, it's not like anybody is worried about breaking the law. The only reasons that people give are "Ohhhh, my mom's gonna kill me." not "I don't know guys, we could go to jail."
If marijuana was legal, would older people still have such a negative view of it?
Whenever I hang out with my friends and my mom calls me and I answer the phone with something other than a very serious "Hello?", the first questions out of her mouth are "Are you doing drugs? Who are you with?"
But the law is pretty lenient around here when it comes to pot [and there's no denying it, yes, EVERYBODY's doing it]

I was going to make another point, but this whole subject is making me hazy.
I'll come back when I crash.

missive: There is no doubt that weed is my friend's favorite baking ingredient. And she can actually cook, so it's not just betty crocker plus "a little something."

Can't say I ever really "enjoyed" the times I have indulged. Maybe it was dissapointment because I thought I'd get to pig out on the GREATEST MUNCHIES of all times without the guilt & needless to say it did not happen.  

I will admit I have had my dance with Mary Jane a few times will I dance again? possibly.  Is it something I HAVE to do again? Not really.

I love both the 30's film Reefer Madness, Camp at its absolute best & the remake from a few years ago with Kristin Bell & Topher Grace as the kids who turn "Bad" from trying weed. both are just a great commentary about the whole idea of legalization versus the evils of Weed.    

Rings 90

Just read a great interview in GQ about Seth Rogen, whom I love, and his 'pot movies.' Good read.

I'm with you on the 'Do I HAVE to do it again, NO.' It's weird, because I'm such an addictive personality. Just not with that.

LOVEY!

When I was reading your first post, I thought, OH CRAP I'm talking about smoking weed with our little Lovey reading it! And then I remembered where all that stuff begins and got over it.

And then I read about your baking friend and said, Oh, I'm so going down there for a bake-off. Delicious.

And just now, one of our designers brought a project into my office as I was inhaling my Chinese food and said, I'm so sorry. I'm always interupting you when you're eating.

And I said, Well, when someone eats as often as I do, you sort of expect that.

It's a good thing I don't smoke more pot!!!

The most popular argument against marijuana is that people say if you start with marijuana you graduate to cocaine/ecstasy/or something worse. But the real truth is that if you’re looking for marijuana, you have no choice but to get to know a dealer to get it. That’s how you get introduced to all kinds of illegal drugs that are actually dangerous and addictive.

So enough already. And yes, the Dutch are a "creative" breed.

Dutchman:

 I respectful disagree with your statement above.  That's simply not, true regarding marijuana.  It's so prevelant that "dealers" are never heard from. 

Really, the more addictive drugs could really be argued that the weak minded individual is more susceptable to their lure.  I was always too chicken to experiment in those avenues.

Smoking pot is great! Good clean fun as far as I'm concerned. I haven't done it much since my college year, but I'm turning 40 next year and my goal is to start smoking MORE! Eating it is another story. That can get to trippy for me.

NO QUESTION pot should be legal. Another area--like marriage and choice--where our government should simply BUTT (no punn intended) OUT! 

missive: It's all good, I'm not a little child.
And even if I was...
I remember a kid in middle school that sold pot out of his shoes. [he had those huge skate shoes with the thick soles, but he hollowed them out somehow]

Dutchman,

Have to agree with Wheatgrass. Did you read my earlier post about girls NEVER having to buy pot?! Seriously have never bought it and smoked a fair share in undergrad.

And had I wanted to buy it, I would have gone to a friend and asked them to get me some.

Also, disagree with gateway drug argument. Never tempted to try the other stuff. I remember seeing my friends drop acid and thought, REALLY? A hole in your brain? How smart are you?

Lovey!

I think that was my first boyfriend. Or maybe it was Agent666, our resident entrepreneur.

Big Pharma actually does have its tendrils in cannabinoids: dronabinol and nabilone, though both are far more expensive than the genuine article, and probably less effective.

The biggest medical concern over marijuana use is that long-term, it really augments the development of metabolic syndrome (insulin resistance). The drugs that people really enjoy invariably have intrinsic correlates (endogenous opioids, GABA, dopamine), and all of us manufacture endogenous cannabinoids. These substances enhance appetite and have much to do with eating behavior. Sadly, perhaps the most-effective weight loss drug ever devised, rimonabant (a blocker of endogenous cannabinoids) will never see the light of day in this country because of our "visionary" FDA! 

I guess I may be the lone ranger in this group!  I was a sheltered child. I have never tried marijauna or any other illegal drug.  I have been subjected to others who were partaking of the substance and saw first hand how ridiculous they acted and it has been a sobering detterent for me.  I can't say that I don't feel the same way about alcohol though.  I do occasionally partake but most of the time I have the good common sense not to over do it.  As for smoking cigarettes...I am disgusted by it's smell and oily residue and feel if anything needs to designated illegal by the government is should be cigarettes plain and simple!  Now that I have gotten down from my soap box...anyone for a cocktail?    

Never tried Acid ~ Read Go Ask Alice when I was in the 4th Grade. Scared me from having anything to do with Acid for LIFE.. No Joke.. Scary book, was TOTALLY dissapointed when a few years ago I found out it was a Hoax of a story just written to scare kids from doing drugs....

I really don't agree with the goverment making laws that ban smoking in businesses. I'm fine with it if its a goverment building, but I thinkif you are a private business owner its your right to make it a smoking or a smoke free business.  I don't agree with the employees complaint that well I'm going to get lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke so it should be banned.  IMHO it's a CHOICE if you don't want to risk getting lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke then don't apply to work at a place that allows smoking.  

I just think its your business & we supposedly live in a free nation "This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia."  (in today's world I suppose the country in this quote should be changed to China.)   So why can't a tax paying law abiding citizen decide whether or not his establishment is smoing or non smoking? Why do a bunch of CRAZY people get to put their whims over my livelyhood?  If you don't like smoking establishments then don't patronage the business. PLEASE do not take away my rights as a citizen along with my livelyhood because you choose not to smoke.  This country was founded on tabboco its really a part of our history & heritage most of the founding fathers farmed tabbaco & most likely its cousin Mary Jane. (But that's a fact that the history books are no longer allowed to tell the students in today's world.)     

ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS:

TOBACCO ....................... 400,000
ALCOHOL ....................... 100,000
ALL LEGAL DRUGS ............ 20,000
ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS ......... 15,000
CAFFEINE ........................ 2,000
ASPIRIN ......................... 500
MARIJUANA ..................... 0
----------------------------------------
Source: United States government...
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics

jmr:  I hope you accomplish your goal.  Enjoy!

MackDaddy!

But you're so adventurous in every other way!!! I was such a sheltered child, too. I do get it. The first time I tried pot, I thought it was evil. And, like Wheatgrass, I didn't 'do it the right way!'

I'm going to take you up on that cocktail, and then I'm going to peer pressure you into one more crazy act!!! Just try it.

I'm so teasing you. Smile.

Have a great afternoon, all.

I couldn't care less about smoking marijuana, but when my mother was considering conventional cancer treatment, I started wondering where I could buy some for medical purposes.

In the end, she took the natural route and this wasn't necessary.  Marijuana's a natural treatment of sorts too... why shouldn't it be available for those who need it?

Smoking aside, hemp is a wonderful, useful plant, and very under-utilized. 

Wheatgrass,

Thank you for looking out for my pleasure but, at this point, I'm pretty much done with the stuff.  I have taken part four or five times and never really found it especially pleasent.  And it doesn't matter to me much.  I would not even have indulged on my most recent occasion except that it was my first opportunity to partake of a bong rather than a joint and I was curious if there would be much difference (there wasn't).

My only real reason for getting into it in the first place was as an act of defiance, my unwillingness to allow the government to tell me what kind of leaves I may or may not smoke.  Now that that is done, I am perfectly happy with the high provided by my port and cigars combination (which both tastes and smells better IMO).

The one other occasion I can imagine that might inspire me along these lines would be a visit to Amsterdam.  "When in Rome..." and all that.  On the other hand, that would also suggest the availability of legal prostitution but I draw the line somewhere.  There is a limit even to my sense of adventure.

Back to my good buddy, Missive:

Adventureous yes...stupidly daredevilish...no! 

I do agree that IF there is a meaningful purpose such as medicines, clothing, fuel, paper, etc...for the drug by all means use it.  But for the shear altering of the mind ...no. 

I can remember the people who were using this drug many years ago and they were slobery, smelly, and simply acted stupid.  The even worse thing is they still are!  They never grew up or out of that stage.  I am sure you have heard the cliche' "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". Hence the term when doin any drug...let's get wasted. Now the other side of the coin...I do not wish to impose my beliefs on anyone and I also do not believe that the government should have the right to dictate our freedoms.  (sorry...this does not come without a but.) But, I can say that I am very pleased that smoking has been banned in restaurants and other public places in our community so I can enjoy them too.  I had a heart attack and open heart surgery (quadruptle bypass) at age 43.  Afterwards, I could not be around any smoke because it would cause my chest to tighten and I could not breathe.  I would gasp for air and wheeze uncontrollably if I sat anywhere close to a smoking section.  It never failed, after requesting a table away for the smoking section that the hostess would seat me one or two tables away from a smoke stack!!!!  I live in KY and yes one of our main resources is (or was) tobacco.  But how ironic is it that my grandparents and my grand parent in-laws, and my Father who worked with and smoked tobacco have all died of cancer and now my Mother is dying from COPD.  I guess it boils down to the fact that I personally find ALL smoking repulsive and unnecessary. Unless you want to kill yourself either by smoking cigarettes (slow death) or jumping out of a 3 story building because of smoking marijuana (a much quicker way to do the job). It's your choice...I just choose to do neither.

Have a great day everyone!!!          

Aaaaaaahhh, . . . . . nothing like a day of euphoric recall.

To paraphrase Francis Albert Sinatra, "when I was seventeen, it was a really, really good year" ...I think. It was a year of listening to The Spencer Davis Group, The Rascals, Turtles, Yardbirds, Byrds, Rlloing Stones and the Kinks. It was also eating countless Twinkies and Banana Splits after having smoked, coughed, and laughed ‘till your ribs hurt from smoking a bowl of $15 an ounce Mexican ditch weed.

Never did like to drink very much but I did enjoy smoking a fatty. It took about ten years of semi-frequent use before life caught up with me and I realized that Peter Pan was not a good choice for my role model. I never had an interest in experimenting with anything stronger and I didn't have any difficulty quitting but that's just my story. I did however plan to start again when/if I make into my late seventies.

The danger it seems is the same as that which comes with alcohol abuse. Too much of either can lead to disaster; like driving under the influence, writing a bad checks, eating dessert first and over-tipping.

Legalization?

The ultimate goal of any government, anytime, anywhere; is to operate under illusion of being in control and to collect taxes. Cigarettes and liquor fit this model well. They have legal age limits established, controlled licensing, tax stamps, sales tax, etc.; all of which are very vulnerable to corruption from within and without.

Pot on the other hand is a different animal. Once legal, every toker with a back yard will take up gardening (outdoors for a change). Farmers across America will be setting aside some acreage for this new cash crop. The consumer pipeline has been in operation for centuries. If it can't be controlled when it is illegal, what are the odds of controlling and/or taxing it if it becomes legalized? Since it doesn't matter either way, treat it like alcohol from a law enforcement stand point in regard to age limits and protection of the public's safety.

I just think government and society has bigger fish to fry than this.

With all that said, I think it's time for a "Cheech and Chong" Film Fest.

BTW: I wouldn't eat another Twinkie if you paid me.

MackDaddy,

I'm talking a lot of 'smoke' on here today. I'm a fairly big lightweight on the stuff. I do have a story about the one time I DID try to be 'adventurous' and buy it as a stocking stuffer. Mostly to spice things up, not unlike the 'dragging the mate into the backseat of the car' dare. It was hilarious. I looked like such a NARC. The kid flipping ran.

And I don't miss smoke in restaurants. Drycleaning is a @#$%*.

It is a strange accident of history that alcohol and tobacco are legal and marijuana is not.  I wouldn't object to legalization of the drug if I could just get around to trusting the general public with the responsibility...but common sense is not so common these days, so I have to say keep it illegal, for now...

 "Cheech and Chong" Film Fest"

Dave's not here, man!..... I NEVER laughed as much as I did when I used to work in Radio & Tommy Chong came in for an interview & did that whole skit for us before he left.

No matter his problems he was a total gentleman while at the station & he's actually quite smart.

As an irelevent point here, I have never smoked or drunk.  I have this thing about being in control of myself and I abhore anything that would take that control away.  I even dislike things like rollercoasters.  But that's me and I don't think I have the right to impose my warped view of life upon anyone else.

And now the big "however".  The hysteria of this whole issue was really demonstrated a few years ago when, here in KY, some of the powers that be wanted to legalize industrial hemp.  I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.  At the court house in Boyle Co., there is an historical marker announcing to the world that that area was the "hemp capital of the world".  During WWII, most all the rope used by the Navy was from hemp grown in KY.  Industrial hemp is very different from the plant that is smoked; different in size, chemical make-up, and general apperence.  But the morals and standards people got all in a twit because it was from the same family.  They seemed to feel that there would be cross pollination and the cannabus content would be increased and then all sorts of evil things would happen! Here we had this wonderful chance to replace our sagging tobacco income with something that could truly be a money maker.. rope, paper, cloth.. and renewable!  But noo-ooo.  It was too close to that weed of the devil!  And you wonder why KY is last in things like education and first in things like obesity.  If it wasn't for the beauty and our family history here, when things like this happen, I often think we should follow our kids to CA.

Once again I appear from the opposite side of the earth - the land of legal Medical Marijuana - and I continue the saga of the love of my life, for whom mj was of such comfort when he was in the throes of dealing with three kinds of cancer and the various nostrums and chemotherapy prescribed to deal with pain, discomfort, and nausea weren't helping.  But - along came medical mj.

He had a card, recommended by his physician and issued by the state (and much against the federal laws) but it allowed us to name a grower who could provide the mj we needed.  No money exchanged hands, and  again, his comfort was our goal.  My firm conclusion on this topic is that the Feds should flat out recognize "states' rights" to carry out the wishes of the sovereign voters of our fair state.  We recognize the value of mj for patients whose doctors prescribe that drug for treatment, and we also, within our state laws enacted by our voters, support death with dignity.  

From another aspect of experience, I served as a member of our state's alcohol and drug council from 1973 to 1986 - and then from 1986 to 2003 was a staff member in various prevention programs in our state systems of human services and education.  We were there in the era of the DARE programs - which were excellent funding sources for the Los Angeles Police Dept - they wrote the curriculum, trained those annointed to present the program, and even managed to get a federal earmark requiring all states using DARE to buy their training from the LA-sponsored program and spend at least 15% of our state's allocation in doing so.  We used the same methodology in our state, to try to save $$ and make training more accessible - but we also had to pay tribute to LAPD...

As others have so aptly noted in this discussion thread - watch who is making the money and you'll know how the system works!  When the hew and cry on "gateway drugs" was all the rage - alcohol and tobacco use by kids was certainly an introduction to addiction because of their immature systems.  And subsequent evidence from tobacco manufacturers has certainly revealed that there was targeted marketing to youth, including addition of substances that would set the hooks deeper.  But not marijuana.

In the late 1960s when programs for treatment of alcoholism were beginning to catch the eye (especially of those who made their money from such things - and I am NOT saying they are not needed and effective, I am saying that inevitably a good thing can be corrupted) - but our (that editorial pronoun again) understanding of how alcoholism progressed was that it was a chronic disease that took time to develop.  Well, imagine our surprise when we learned that the immature adolescent system allowed alcoholism and addiction to progress more rapidly - so that rather than becoming an alcoholic at 25 or 35 after time, the kid was alcoholic at age 18 and had really messed up his physical, emotional and mental development for life - unless there was extensive treatment.

I noted use of the term "reformed" alcoholic in a prior post and must comment on that as well - most alcoholics refer to themselves as in recovery - the notion of reformation is a bit archaic.  In my experience, for an alcoholic, recovery lasts a lifetime and means not only not drinking anymore, it also means that there has been some "work" to recover from the emotional and social deficits that invariably occur.  These deficits occur because healthy and normative social and emotional growth ceases at the time the use/abuse of alcohol begins.

I observed so many adults in public life claim to be in recovery - and it was true, they were no longer drinking.  But they had become, instead. "dry drunks" with a "holier than thou" attitude because they didn't drink, but the same obnoxious personality they had when they  were drinking.  To my frame of reference, they were not "in recovery" - they simply no longer drank.  I worked with several of these (mostly men) in my long career and one in particular would publicly berate me for daring to serve in a field that I had no experience in (having never been addicted myself, was his claim).  That may have been true, but my experience as the former wife of an alcoholic was certainly helpful and relevant and the therapies available to me in that role were invaluable.

A reading of the history of how various substances came to be legal or illegal is very helpful in understanding how mj was placed on the illegal list and how since that time, the stigma has continued to impinge on research about it.  My belief is that when the "gateway" drugs were identified as alcohol and tobacco, someone threw in marijuana because it was illegal and easy to target.  

Enough from my long and checkered career - mj, like any other substance, can be abused, used, helpful, not helpful.  (even water is suspect - think waterboarding).  

But wasting federal time and energy on regulation of mj is egregious and just plain stupid.  Our motives aren't pure - never have been (see Opium wars) - it is too easy to change the message. 

Hello!  I've been reading the blogs on this site for about a couple of months now so I feel like I "know" some of you already.  This is my first time posting and the timing couldn't be any better...  I was in my late teens in the late '70s so that should tell you something about my experiences.  I've never really understood why it is illegal although I've always thought that it must not be in the governments best interest.  I guess my biggest beef with this issue is the "its a gateway drug".  Everyone I know started drinking before smoking, so I say if there is a gateway drug then it is alcohol. Doesn't alcohol alter our minds as well?  Its not for everybody and I understand that.  I could go on and on but will leave it at that! 

Now a word from the "rich old white guy" (as someone, I think it was Olivia, labeled me):

I don't care what any one does........I'm socially liberal but a capitalist pig........just do it in the privavcy of your home.  Do it in moderation. Get help if your addicted. Do it because you want to and not because of peer pressure.

I was a child of the 60's.  I recall pot back then smelled like alfafa, today it smells like skunk. Reefer Madness was a classic movie that people would watch and smoke pot while watching.  It was like the movies we use to have to watch in the military:  there was a true classic about certain kinds of girls you didn't take home to mother. (Remember the Rick James song?) Young soldiers (Marines in my case) would fall victim to these girls' seductions and end up seeing the doctor for some something that would cure venereal disease.   Of course, after seeing the movie you always made sure the  doctor would be in  after your night on the town.  It would be foolish not to make sure the doc was in......raging hormones and foolishness are not always first cousins. Although they do seem to be related.

Enjoy your lives and leave this capitalist pig to make and count his money in peace. 

My son lost his short-term memory due to heavy M.J. use. I was told that this is a common side effect of prolonged/heavy use of pot.

I know that pot also causes low sperm counts.

MISSIVE: YOU SOOOO MAKE ME SMILE!!! You know me far better than most of the bloggers.  You are right...I AM multi-adventureous but even I have a limit. I pride myself in being able to distinquish between adventurous and studpidity.  My Mama taught me to be a "Chief" not an "Indian".  However... I am picturing YOUR scenario and I am literally belly-laughing.  Thank goodness you weren't successful!  Just think...you may have been blogging with us from a jail cell right now.  Very adventureous!

To: momngus,

I wish I'd know about the low sperm count caused by marijuana before I fathered four children.........too late to start smoking it now, but that's good advise to all us good Catholic boys planning families. It's never too late, except for me it seems - LOL

JillyBean said...

ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS:

TOBACCO ....................... 400,000
ALCOHOL ....................... 100,000
ALL LEGAL DRUGS ............ 20,000
ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS ......... 15,000
CAFFEINE ........................ 2,000
ASPIRIN ......................... 500
MARIJUANA ..................... 0
----------------------------------------
Source: United States government...
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics

I'm heading to the T-Shirt printing shop as we speak! :)

A good friend of mine compared doing marijuana to a worm tunnelling through your brain. I agree. Which is strange, because I'm a teenager. So.

Forget scientific pros and cons, let us look at the Netherlands.  They have 2 official languages a couple regional languages and more than 50% of the country speaks English, French, and German in addition to their national dialects.  If they can do all that while smoking pot maybe we should launch a full scale study of 'educational marijuana'.

"You know good girls go to heaven, but bad girls get to go everywhere."

"Really?  I always thought they went to Amsterdam."

Forget Cheech & Chong, my favorite MJ movie is "Saving Grace", rent it, love it,

I write this while drinking a gin and tonic, so who am I to criticize those who partake in a little weed now and then.  If I did, I'd be as hypocritical as the current drug laws.  With alcohol and marijuana, as with much in life, moderation is the key.  I've seen so much bad come from excessive drinking.  I also remember some college friends who had a crush on Mary Jane.  They sort of dropped out of life.  Wonder where they are now.

Mark you are correct, but it seems to me that metabolic syndrome is so much more complicated than the small contribution a pot habit might make, and so many studies show that diet and exercise can manage and reverse insulin resistance and its accompanying NIDDM. I agree that GABA, serotonin, anandamide, and endorphins can provide a powerful high, illustrating the cycle of positive reinforcement similar to drug use, but perhaps more beneficial when resulting from activities such as cardiovascular exercise. And Marinol seems to have been an attempt by the drug companies more to find a way to make money, as usual, rather than actually help sufferers, since it's largely ineffective, expensive, and difficult to control the dose. They DID succeed in creating a THC analog with no euphoric sequelae but several unpleasant side effects, however-so corporate! All good point, and thank you.

I'd also like to commend Mark and DPR for their support of the port and cigar lobby. They smell good, and I always liked the notion of the ladies retiring after dinner to their interests while the gentleman passed the port to port and enjoyed their aromatic Cohibas or whatever-again, my traditionalism and romanticism wave their flags. If only it wasn't for that darn cancer thing!

And that brings up the whole public smoking thing. Individual rights are a blessing and a treasure, but a smoker's right to smoke ends where my respiratory system begins, and we regulate public smoking (and bars are public places) for the same reasons we regulate public drinking-public health, safety, manners, civility. I believe that one may do as one pleases in the privacy of one's own home, but move into the community and the interplay of rights becomes more complicated.

Alcohol has its health benefits in small doses, pharmaceuticals and most slow poisons may be safely taken in moderation if they provide enjoyment. They can all be abused, and there are those whose constitutions do not admit of restraint. These individuals come to grief with such substances, but it is difficult to decide where civil authority should intervene. It's true that pot is relatively safe when compared to other drugs, especially the legal ones, but it is also true that some do not behave well on it or any intoxicant.

I smoked some pot in college (you're right Missy, I never paid for it), sometimes it helped me study. Like my alcohol intake, my body prevents me from overindulging lest I suffer exceedingly. I would drop the occasional hit of acid, but almost never in public-I used it for meditation. Good LSD is excellent for introspection. as are mushrooms, mescaline, and peyote, but such alkaloids must be approached with caution and respect for their potency. If we followed the examples set by the original practitioners, we might find many benefits for all these plants.

Hmmm, about that sperm count thingy-the father of my FOUR kids smoked his share of pot and MORE, and fertility was never a problem...

The last word for me is that pot is benign, even beneficial, when used prudently, and our government's proccupation with regulation of pleasure and mind control of the populace is stupid and wasteful. We have much better things we could do with our resources, human and otherwise. Making criminals of people who just want to relax should itself be criminal, and Spinner's tale of the ignorance and knee-jerk stupidity of those who drank the DEA's Kool-Aid is so sad, for hemp is a wonderful plant, and so useful.

Ever had a worm tunnel through your brain? It is SO not like smoking pot, as testimonials from those encountering the dread Loa Loa can reveal...

The worst brain-melting I ever saw was the result of huffing gasoline and glue. Those boys literally made drooling idiots of themselves. Institutionalized, diaper-wearing experiments in natural selection, and so wasteful and tragic.

There is just something about the smell of pot that gives me a headache and makes me angry.  I've never smoked it, and I reacted that way before I even knew what that smell was.

I think I will pass.

ExPat, I didn't label you, YOU admitted to a possible affiliation with that group when I used the phrase. And I protested. You may be a ROGUE, but I don't get the feeling you're a ROWG...

I'm going to make myself a beautiful omelet and pop a bottle of very good champagne, for this discussion has stimulated various appetites...

I don't remember who said it above, but the chart that says 0 marijuana deaths is as fake as the Wizard of Oz. There is no bureau of mortality statistics; the NCHS handles all mortality statistics.

On the subject, however, there just isn't a large enough outcry for the laws to be changed. Sure they're an outrageous drain on the government and, of course, I am against government involvement in dailyblife, but they're not going to give us any power that they don't need to give us. There is no real showing for the legalization,either, because those who want to and do smoke are high all the time. Many of my pothead friends are not gone, but they are forgotten.

How fun--a pot smokers forum for just one evening!  I haven't smoked it much.  A few times it was off-the-charts great fun, but other times it made me REALLY PARANOID.  I was freaking out, and my equally-high friends were just laughing hysterically at me!  I decided maybe it was not the best use of my time.

I personally dont care for it any more, my wife and I woke up the day after the Phil Lesh concert last month and wondered what had steamrolled us both.  We hadnt even bothered smoking.  But I believe in legalization and to some extent taxation.  Cut down on the prison population and regulate what you can.  For the most part people wont grow what you can run to the corner and buy.

Dont forget corporate americas part in all this.  When nylon rope was developed the oil and chemical companies campaigned against hemp and all its byproducts.  It happened around WWII and they werent about to make much growing hemp.  Producing nylon rope was another story.

 Sadly I will confess I started smoking tobacco to take the edge off the pot years ago.  Guess which one is more addicting...

To: Olivia,

After my divorce I became just an "old white guy", she became a "rich bitch"  It's what liberals like to call wealth transfer (Ha Ha).......but I am a rogue. 

Olivia,

"we regulate public smoking (and bars are public places) for the same reasons we regulate public drinking".  I shudder to think what would happen if drinking were banned in bars.  I submit that bars are private places in which many people gather.  If I invite 100 guests into my home, that does not make my home a public place.  And, while smoking in front of said guests would be discourteous, it should not be made illegal.  The street is a public place in every sense and it is one of the few places in NYC where you may smoke.

"If it weren't for that darn cancer thing."  Obviously, this is a threat one must take into account if one is to embrace the ritual of cigar smoking.  As always, moderation is the key.  My cigar hobby is rarely practiced, especially since I never smoke at home since Vivien was born.  I certainly hope it is rare enough to prevent the throat cancer that the activity threatens.  But I am fully aware of the risk and I take responsibility for it.  I'm not too worried about the lungs since the smoke is too thick to inhale.  And if the odds beat me (as I admit they certainly could) I will have lived for many pleasures in the meantime.  I am reminded of this dialogue:

Patient:  Doctor, do you think I might live to be a hundred?

Doctor:  Do you smoke?

Patient:  No.

Doctor:  Do you drink?

Patient:  No.

Doctor:  Do you do drugs?

Patient:  No.

Doctor:  Do you run with loose women?

Patient:  No.

Doctor:  Why on earth would you want to live to be a hundred???

nachista,

"Saving Grace" is a two-thumbs-up" movie for sure.  C&C is the ticket when I need to laugh-'till-it-hurts, just for the heck of it.

To: DreadPirateRoberts,

 I agree!

I just wanted to test this page's ability to do HTML tags.

Mission accomplished. Back to our programming.

DPR-I totally agree with you! To regulate is not the same as to make illegal, and we already know that doesn't work. I'm all for individual rights that hurt no others. I have my favorite bars in my town, but the best ones are smoke free. There are smoking bars, cigar bars, and no-holds-barreds...I think we should make an effort to educate the populace with regard to risk management and avoidance in all hazardous pursuits, from smoking and drinking to firearms and bungee jumping, but if one still wishes to engage in these, go for it! And I think private clubs or any establishment that wishes to either allow or restrict certain activities (Doc's earlier comment referencing handcuffs comes to mind) must have free rein in a free society. On the other hand, where there are children, who deserve protection,or others wishing to avoid risk in public, I believe it reasonable to restrict hazardous activities. You lot wouldn't swordfight in a school playground during recess, now would you? Just as dueling to the death was banned, public smoking is now banned in many places, and that will continue I am sure. Smoke at home, smoke at your local pub or among agreeable friends, but not in the public spaces or your car with the windows up taking the kids to school. I believe that constitutes disregard of public health and trust just as does careening down the road with a quart of malt liquor, the resdual reflex deficit of sleep apnea, or the significant distraction of incessant cell phone use. All those dangers to the community and the self have a remedy, perhaps we can discuss them another day.

Also, when one drinks, everyone around you doesn't have to sample your glass, but when one smokes, everyone nearby smokes, so there's that to consider.

Hmmm, just checked back to see if that map of ENGLAND is still sitting up at the top left of this page beside the words 'Marijuana Grown in National Parks'.  Has anyone warned Gordon Brown of the dangers lurking in the Lake District, various parts of Wales, and Cornwall?